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Stitcher
Caldari
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.07.30 23:04:00 -
[1]
Rather than letting the thread get bogged down in OOC chatter, let's move the OOC stuff here where it belongs.
 Originally by: Becq Starforged
((OOC: Keep in mind that the book is not IC information, whereas The links Telemicus provided are publically available IC information. I'm not saying that the books are 'untrue', but whether it's true or not, represents information we have little or no access to.))
Well aware of this, mate, and I'm being very careful not to stray into the realm of stuff that it would be impossible to know in-character. I don't want to be one of those "outrageous claims" characters 
Still, coverups have a way of leaking at the seams, and one view of the State has it that there's a lot of subtle information-gathering and corporate espionage going on all the time. Somebody who threw enough money in the right direction could probably find out a lot of peripheral data on all sorts of supposed State secrets - things like the fact that there was a project labeled "Insorum" on the Ishukone Medical R&D register, but that it was classified in November 107 by order of the CEO, and all public domain access - what little there was of it - was revoked.
The angle I'm playing here is that Stitcher's called in a lot of favors chasing this Insorum story since its deployment by the Elder Fleets, and has gotten hold of some rather interesting, but far from conclusive information. Basically, I'm going for "doesn't have a clue what's really going on, but is smart enough to start connecting a few of the outlying dots."
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Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.31 04:04:00 -
[2]
Agreed, and Insorum was developed by Zainou, whose majority shareholder is Ishukone. This is something any one could find out. And we all know what Insorum does just by watching the news.
So this kind of thing is just really connecting the dots.
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Silver Night
Caldari
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.07.31 05:08:00 -
[3]
Yeah, my general rule is to represent things like this, or like Otro being a former Gurista as something there might be rumor of, but you don't have proof. It is fair if your character's back story ties you closely with an organization - I believe that in both your and my cases Stitcher, this is Ishukone - you would here something of these supposed secrets, even distorted or mostly as rumor.
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The Clown Man.
GLS Mr. State
Caldari Patriot.
Sansha's Nation Supporter
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Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.07.31 11:18:00 -
[4]
Stitcher, as far as your theory on details of Insorum being buried by the State after Hnolku fled and was killed, I cannot see that being the realistic case here. It was all over the news, lots of Capsuleers took part in the events, and many more people on the side lines fiction wise had to be involved. it was a massive manhunt for the State and you can bet that Ishukone would have sent very spare ship and crew they could after him. Many people would know. Even if not the crews themselves, the officers would. And the independent media all over eve which are not represented by the single news agency we players see reports from. No way they could think to cover it up.
I have not got round to reading the book yet but you say in the IGS thread it makes no mention of Hnolku as the creator. But take into account this does not mean CCP has replaced the fiction around Insorum. Just saw no need to reiterate established fiction in the book. If anything it is just a little clumsy of them instead of a total fiction rewrite, and creates an unfortunate situation for you who was not around when Insorum was all over the news. And the news site archive and search is pretty useless for any meaningful news research, I know.
I do think though that it is realistic to assume there are people who had no idea what it Insorum was. The ignorant ones or those who don't watch the news every day so sure your character could well know nothing of it and always have a hard time IC trying to find out what it was. If anything that is always good as an option as I dislike 'know it alls about everything' characters myself. I guess this would be a better way of explaining why your character knows little about it, than some theory of the State slapping large 'Classified' stamps all over the place.
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Mirkur Draug'Tyr :: Recruitment |
Stitcher
Caldari
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 11:56:00 -
[5]
Read the book, it kinda rejects our reality and substitutes TonyG's own with regards to Insorum. Spoilers follow, so look away now if you care about that sort of thing.
The Empyrean Age version of events is that Insorum was pretty much Gariushi's private bombshell, ready to provide Ishukone with another "pipeline" product along the same vein as capsules and the Raven. It was massively secret, known only to himself and a tiny number of other people.
What I'm trying to do is tie the two versions together. The best one I can come up with is that Hnolku stole it, Gariushi locked it down and continued the research project under the utmost secrecy and security in order to prevent anything like that happening again. Meanwhile, the only surviving prototype Insorum sample - the one the Ushra'Khan have - is only partially effective at best, and not suitable for mass production.
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Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.07.31 16:37:00 -
[6]
Hmm, well given the Caldari corporate structure system I would not say it takes away from what has been established already. It just includes Gariushi in it all as a component of Insorum being made. If anything it still makes sense. When the Insorum events took place I had the firm impression it was an official project from Zainou and Hnolku with his wife were the main project leaders. Little else was uttered so I guess there is room enough to include Gariushi in on it all. Kind of like he had an idea and sicked the bio-techs on it and Hnolku was in charge of this all.
Unless the book depicts Gariushi in a white lab coat making Insorum himself I can't see such a thing stomping on established lore. He may have guided the project from on high by issuing many demands and getting updates and it is entirely plausible. And him wanting it to be Ishukone's next big thing only makes sense. I doubt anything the megacorps do is pure speculation or idle curiosity and will be looked on as domestic/foreign market application or self serving military.
Still, will keep an open mind when I read the book myself (still finishing another book I was half through when the book landed on my doorstep.) and see what judgements I can draw with more info.
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Mirkur Draug'Tyr :: Recruitment |
Ugleb
Minmatar
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.07.31 19:56:00 -
[7]
Ullia Hnolku was meant to be the lead researcher on the Insorum project. He feared that it would never reach the people who needed it the most (the slaves) and that its potential would be bogged down by corporate profiteering.
So he stole it and went rogue. He then made a public appeal to the capsuleers for help, the Ushra'Khan led the charge and were chosen by Hnolku to escort him.
We got him most of the way towards safety before he warped to the wrong gate and got shot down by CAIN. He died but we recovered the prototype from his wreck. We have been holding onto it for about 3 years (maybe longer now) waiting for the day that it would return to the storyline.
The Caldari of course wanted the prototype/research data recovered and out of public hands. For one thing it is an investment. For another it reaching the public domain uncontrolled was a big threat to their good relations with the Amarr. Hnolku was betraying the State's best interests.
Following his death his wife was grabbed by the Blood Raiders and the sample she was carrying fell into their hands. They developed that into an aerosol form (CCP told us OOC that the Ushra sample was a less developed form).
Blood Inquisition tok part in some events moving the Blood Raiders 'weaponised' form into position for the Mabnen attack. Mabnen was hit, mass uprising from the slaves, heads on spikes etc. The Imperial Navy performed an orbital bombardment. It is a player assertion that the Insorm sent the slaves crazy, might be something to that but I don't think it has ever been clearly indicated by CCP either way. Alternatively the Blooders added something to the mix for added fun. It does make for good Amarrian (IC) propaganda though.
Mabnen kicked off a full scale war against the Covenant which saw the Amarr drive the Blooders out of low-sec (so now their stations/agents are all in 0.0 rather than in the Bleaks).
After that things go silent on the CCP front until we see the Elder Fleets deploying Insorum left right and centre three years later.
Frustratingly CCP have yet to comment on where the stuff came from (haven't finished the book yet but even so that info hasn't fed into the game yet as we all know) and they made no use at all of the Ushra sample. Despite us banging on about it for three years. I get that there are time pressures and what not but it was a disapointment to see the arc amount to pretty much nothing at the player end.
(Book spolier paragraph)
From what I have read in the book so far Gariushi developing Insorum as a 'pet project' doesn't conflict with Hnolku going rogue with it. It just means that he was signing off on Hnolku's funding up until he went rogue. Following that he probably just appointed a new project lead.
Contact the Sarz'na Khumatari |
Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.31 21:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ugleb
From what I have read in the book so far Gariushi developing Insorum as a 'pet project' doesn't conflict with Hnolku going rogue with it. It just means that he was signing off on Hnolku's funding up until he went rogue. Following that he probably just appointed a new project lead.
That's pretty much it in my view, not that I want to project that forcibly onto others.
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Faraelle Brightman
Gallente
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2008.07.31 22:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ugleb
Frustratingly CCP have yet to comment on where the stuff came from (haven't finished the book yet but even so that info hasn't fed into the game yet as we all know) and they made no use at all of the Ushra sample. Despite us banging on about it for three years. I get that there are time pressures and what not but it was a disapointment to see the arc amount to pretty much nothing at the player end.
**mild spoiler warning**
Keep reading. Basicly, without spoiling too much there are now only two people in the universe with access to the secret of the source and manufacture of Insorum, Shakor and Mila. Also consider how certian other drugs in-game are made.
The biggest conflict I see basicly amounts to why Otto, the Ishukone CEO, would authorize the manhunt for Hnolku if he was the sort of fairly good guy he is portrayed as in the book, and just how he got his hands on any of the prototype.
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Stitcher
Caldari
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 23:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Faraelle Brightman
The biggest conflict I see basicly amounts to why Otto, the Ishukone CEO, would authorize the manhunt for Hnolku if he was the sort of fairly good guy he is portrayed as in the book, and just how he got his hands on any of the prototype.
Gariushi's about as much of a "good guy" as you get with Caldari anyway, but as I said elsewhere, I reckon Caldari have quite alien values (relative to our modern perspective). That manhunt isn't out of character, especially not for the man who also authorized the development of transcranial microcontrollers.
Gariushi's an honourable character, but "honourable" and "nice" aren't quite the same thing.
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Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
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Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.08.01 04:16:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Stitcher
Gariushi's an honourable character, but "honourable" and "nice" aren't quite the same thing.
Ya, Gariushi didn't exactly become CEO of his birthing megacorp by being a good guy. He was a Guristas before that.
 Founder Heiian Society |
Stitcher
Caldari
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.08.01 08:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dex Nederland
He was a Guristas before that.
I thought "Guristas" was the the plural of "Gurista"?
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Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Veron Daerth
Amarr
Blood Meridian
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Posted - 2008.08.01 13:47:00 -
[13]
Didnt someone from UK or EM recently publish an IC report on recent (in-game) research into Vitoxin and Vitoc and stuff? I remember reading through a lot of info about Vitoxin and what and how it works. It was really put together well.
Damn...I cant find the link, and now its going to bug me. I now have to go find that, or its going to drive me insane.
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Anneka Tong
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2008.08.01 14:02:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Veron Daerth
Didnt someone from UK or EM recently publish an IC report on recent (in-game) research into Vitoxin and Vitoc and stuff? I remember reading through a lot of info about Vitoxin and what and how it works. It was really put together well.
Damn...I cant find the link, and now its going to bug me. I now have to go find that, or its going to drive me insane.
Was this it?
This thread also has a link about it.
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Veron Daerth
Amarr
Blood Meridian
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Posted - 2008.08.01 20:20:00 -
[15]
Yup, thats the one, thanx a ton to Pilot Tong and her radioactive sheep, lolz. Also kudos go to the folks at Electus Matari for putting that together, it was really well done. I especially liked the "scientific-esque" feel it had, like I was reading a paper published by and about actual science.
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