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Atet
Gallente
Valhalla Deep Space Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.31 15:02:00 -
[1]
In response to some in game emails I have received, I am proposing the following. A Black List of Pirates/corps/alliances that do not honor ransoms.
Now, such a list could be very helpful and at the same time, very damaging. So, before you all start sending me names to add to this list, we need to set some rules here so that things remain fair for the carebears and the pirates.
- Before you make a submission request, you MUST attempt to resolve the incident with the Pilot/Corporation/Alliance FIRST.
- Submissions to the black list must be made by your main, alt submissions will not be accepted.
- Submission requests must be made using the following format:
- Subject: RANSOM BLACK LIST REQUEST: Pilot/Corporation/Alliance name
- The main part of the post must contain the names of all involved and a brief description of the incident.
- Information and documentation as per step 1 on how you tried to resolve the incident must also be posted in the request
- Additional incidents concerning said Pilot/Corporation/Alliance should be posted to an existing submission request thread.
Once a submission thread had been made and multiple incidents have been recorded, then and only then will they be added to the black list.
The black list will be a simple text file that will be stored on EVE-Files for the time being.
Link to come.
Thoughts?
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Aurelio Baran
Caldari
Hemorrhagic Visions
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Posted - 2008.07.31 15:07:00 -
[2]
pffft.
My brother did it. I was on the toilet.
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Modrak Vseth
Veto.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 15:12:00 -
[3]
Do you think anyone is actually going to take/have the time to look at said list before paying a ransom? If the ransomed is that concerned about whether or not the pirates are trustworthy then they'll depend on their own knowledge of the pirates' reputation because they won't have time to do all this digging.
Reputation, good or bad > any list.
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Nexus Kinnon
A Few Good Men.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 15:20:00 -
[4]
Nice idea in theory, and you've put some thought into the execution, but I'm not sure that it'll work in practice, because of the time limited nature of the ransoms. GL anyway. 
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Voltain
BEER Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 15:21:00 -
[5]
Why not fight back, coz that like might be fun or summit, I dunno?
I don't think I'll factor in time for "customers" to open up eve-o and check your list tbqh.
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Atet
Gallente
Valhalla Deep Space Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.31 15:25:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Modrak Vseth
Do you think anyone is actually going to take/have the time to look at said list before paying a ransom? If the ransomed is that concerned about whether or not the pirates are trustworthy then they'll depend on their own knowledge of the pirates' reputation because they won't have time to do all this digging.
Reputation, good or bad > any list.
I have to agree with you, reputation does mean a lot and is very powerful. Veto has a reputation of being a very successful and honorable pirate corporation. Your corp honors ransoms, people know this by reputation.
Such a black list would be more of a learning resource for new pilots, so that they do not fall prey to those of your profession who do not honor ransoms. It's their responsibility to know the space they fly, to "do the digging" before they venture into a specific region of space. You would have to do this because no one will have time to review such a list while being ransomed.
The purpose of such a list is to shame those who need to be shamed and attempt to be a deterrent to pirates not honoring ransoms. They may profit from it in the short term, but a central listing that people can add to can create some sort of fear that they will not be able to continue to be dishonorable for long and be successful.
Of course, if you leap before you look, tough luck for them I suppose.
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kessah
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.31 15:47:00 -
[7]
Verones dishonourable.  He said he would call..., but he never did... 
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Atet
Gallente
Valhalla Deep Space Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.31 15:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: kessah
Verones dishonourable. He said he would call..., but he never did...
LOL
Honestly though, Verone is one of the more honorable pirates in game. Reputation for the win. Reputation for pirating the right way.
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Lubimchik
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.07.31 16:03:00 -
[9]
Ok so, for the right price (yes I know what an evil thing to do.. charge isk for RL time..)
I could code a system that would work in the in game browser (easly book marked and viewable in game) and would list the pirate corps you add as well as making it easy for people to "vote" postive or negitive to a pirate corp.....That way corps with negtive votes probally arent going to honor the ransoms and corps with postive votes just might.
Though yeah, as was mentioned earlier, not paying ransoms is way kewler now then paying them used to be. Ever sense the 12 year old WTFILLPWNYOU wow kids got on and relised that they can do things wow would never let them do there has been some issues with people power tripping... so yeah... alot of pirate corps dont pay ransoms..
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Sol'Kanar
Minmatar
NightCrew
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Posted - 2008.07.31 16:14:00 -
[10]
NightCrew honors all ransoms. Our internet-honor is indefatigable. (Triple word score, *****es)
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Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.31 16:43:00 -
[11]
Originally by: kessah
Verones dishonourable. He said he would call..., but he never did...
Sorry sweetheart, I'm spoken for
<3
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Voltain
BEER Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 16:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Lubimchik
alot of pirate corps dont pay ransoms..
They don't?? damnit that's where I've been going wrong!
DesuSig |
z0de
Gallente
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.07.31 16:59:00 -
[13]
Could you also manage a list of honourable pirates?
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Ga'len
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.07.31 18:28:00 -
[14]
Interesting concept, I would think it would be a very short list though, most pirates honor ransoms.
Dishonoring a ransom is really an exception, not the rule, as it's bad for business.
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Markov Chaney
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Posted - 2008.07.31 21:07:00 -
[15]
as opposed to all the honorable pirates?
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Inara Subaka
Caldari
the united
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Posted - 2008.07.31 21:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Markov Chaney
as opposed to all the honorable pirates?
Yarr. I believe that's what he was saying. Most of us are reasonable folks for the right amount of flashiness on our wallet icon.
It's *words CCP would edit* like this that make our jobs harder, no one wants to believe that we'll let them go after experiencing crap like this.
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DefJam101
Gallente
MAFIOSOS
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Posted - 2008.07.31 21:40:00 -
[17]
Terrible idea unless there is criteria for entering a corporation or player onto the list, such as screenshots. It's far too easy for people to just get mad at a pirate corp and then spread lies about them. Everyone seems to believe it simply because they are the nasty bad guys and you are the poor traders trying to make a living. Don't take offense to this, it's just a generalization.
In any case, I approve of this idea if someone actually put effort into the system and made sure that the possibility for error was as low as possible.
Originally by: Destiny Calling
Edited by: Destiny Calling on 27/12/2006 14:40:19
edited for simplicity
your idea is bad |
Lubimchik
Power Seed Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.07.31 21:47:00 -
[18]
My idea for this would be simple....
A website accessable via the in game browser
A global list with three total links. Add, Highest, Lowest.
Each known pirate corp could be entered into this list, and could be updated very easly with newoones as well using the in game API.
Players then could give "honor" points to each pirate corp, of course it would be limited voting based on a set of critera that would make it harder.. not impossible, but at least very tedious to trick.
So a + Honor point would move them up the list, and a - honor point would move them down the list.
Then at a glance you could easly see how others have voted the pirate corp and judge for your self if you think they will honor the ransom or not... I meen of course there is no garentee that they will or wont, but there is always a possibility.
Other features could be implimented like leaving feedback and what not, might make for a good system who knows...
If someone is interested in contracting me to create such a system I would be more then happy to do it. Though I really dont have the strive nor the care to create one for just the thrill of creating one. |
Dapanman1
Amarr
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
The InterBus Initiative
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Posted - 2008.07.31 23:21:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Dapanman1 on 31/07/2008 23:24:02
Do it the other way around, whitelisting isntead of blacklisting. That way people would prove they honour ransoms rather than every single corp having to dishonour a ransom before they get listed. A few off the top of my head: veto, (some of?) snigg, whatever turby turned in to (check that one obv) and my corp, not that we play anymore or anyhting.
Edit: Also, people woudn't have to search through the list to see if the pirate is reputable, it would be in the best intrests of the ransomer to provide a link to this information. Maybe, I'll get more isk and less '**** YOU AND YOUR FAMILY,' though the latter is almost as good.
Sig removed for inappropriate content.~~~Applebabe |
Joe Starbreaker
AnTi.
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.07.31 23:31:00 -
[20]
I don't think I would be able to bring myself to honor a ransom.
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Lubimchik
Power Seed Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.07.31 23:39:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
I don't think I would be able to bring myself to honor a ransom.
Thats because your 15 and used to play WoW.....
ohh and your lame.
Yeah, I could do several things with the listing including easy "profile" links that people could add to their bios that would open the in game browser and show poeple how many votes they have!
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z0de
Gallente
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.07.31 23:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
I don't think I would be able to bring myself to honor a ransom.
and you would be on the list :D
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Sin Fae
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2008.08.01 02:06:00 -
[23]
I would only support it if there is a link of the "C&P Forum Judgement Proceedings" proving beyond a reasonable doubt with hard evidence of the allegation. Without that, it is a personal matter cluttering up the C&P forums.
Why? Sometimes, some people are caught up in an emotional moment and want to be "right" so bad that they ignore facts.
Conversely, a pirate corp that admits to not honoring ransoms should be noted. You will have to update the list frequently for these corps, tho, as Natural Selection (tm) takes care of those corps financially.
"Suicide Gank Someone Day"(prizes)
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VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.08.01 02:31:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Pirates/corps/alliances that do not honor ransoms.
If they do not honor ransoms they are not pirates, period. All piracy is built upon honoring one's word.
You should pay a ransom to:
Someone in a well-established pirate corp (BEES, VETO etc)
A player in which you have another reason to trust
You should not pay a ransom to:
Anyone in a NPC corp- probably the biggest risk of all.
Any/all high sec noobs
Anyone that is talking smack/acting like a child
Anyone in a 0.0 alliance(their job is simply to kill you and give any/all profits back to their master- they do not fly combat for profit- they have other ways to generate income, carebearing basically)
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z0de
Gallente
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.08.01 03:14:00 -
[25]
adding: The bastards always honour ransoms.
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Sol'Kanar
Minmatar
NightCrew
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Posted - 2008.08.01 13:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
If they do not honor ransoms they are not pirates, period. All piracy is built upon honoring one's word.
Lol, what? So here I am looking in the dictionary and I don't see anything about ransoms or honor in the definition of a pirate. I do see quite a few references to robbery and plundering, however.
The OP has a great idea on paper, but I all but guarantee it will fail in practice. You will never get the exposure and/or use necessary to make it work. GL though!
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Xephys
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Posted - 2008.08.01 13:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sol'Kanar
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
If they do not honor ransoms they are not pirates, period. All piracy is built upon honoring one's word.
Lol, what? So here I am looking in the dictionary and I don't see anything about ransoms or honor in the definition of a pirate. I do see quite a few references to robbery and plundering, however.
The OP has a great idea on paper, but I all but guarantee it will fail in practice. You will never get the exposure and/or use necessary to make it work. GL though!
This. Last I remember, Pirating was all about pillaging and plunder, scumbags included. Not by any means honourable.
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Kale Kold
Caldari
Vicious Little Killers
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Posted - 2008.08.01 13:47:00 -
[28]
Average ransom time = 30secs.
If they dont pay within that time limit they get destroyed! Simple as that, it doesn't matter what ship they are flying.
No-one will be saved by reading this thread.
Conclusion = fail!
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Goyda
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.08.01 15:06:00 -
[29]
Destry's Lounge is dishonorable.....I hate those guys.
Oh wait.....
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Tardar Muller
Spitzerr's Pirate School Yarr
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Posted - 2008.08.01 15:08:00 -
[30]
There is no such thing as e-honor... 
Mitnal, please doom this thread
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Thread does not deliver
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Tarek Tarazul
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Posted - 2008.08.01 15:31:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Tarek Tarazul on 01/08/2008 15:39:43
Maybe we can get some Pirate Corps with ...uhm... "a good reputation"...  to work as a voucher for the credibility. Those who do honor ransoms should after all have some interest in showing their standing in this matter by basically saying: ôWhoo we are nice pirates. They? Scum! DonÆt give them money. And next time, visit us.ö
Quote:
Average ransom time = 30secs.
I agree that time will be critical(though 30 seconds seem quite high?), still when you know you are leaving your well known ôsecure spaceö[the "" is there for a reason], you could take a quick look in hope of remembering at least some of the really bad guys should you encounter them. (When the list does not become too long, you may even be able to remember more than just some.
Personally I would prefer a submission based list. When voting there will always be people that vote for ôlolz I voted for blublab lolololö (would become worse if it were to work) Btw.: I sure hope there is no such corp or alliance 
However this means more Time to put into it AND dispute. There will for sure be disputed ransoms, at least if this idea would work, there will be(otherwise nobody will care).
I had originally thought of a ôone incident=blacklistö one, compensated by some ways to get your corp of the list. But when I think of ~30k players at about any hourà ughhà ôno thank youö. I think counting some incidents and a longer time on the list is the better idea.
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White Chasm
Caldari
Blood In Blood Out
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Posted - 2008.08.01 15:54:00 -
[32]
It's all well and good to try and make a whitelist of honorable corps, but considering how difficult it is to build a good reputation (in this game/irl/etc.) it would probably just be easier to poo on the ones that are dishonorable, since I see them as the minority.
After all, how often do carebears come onto C&P to tell about the friendly customer service of the honorable pirates? (excluding those bandwagoning w/ established corps)
_________________
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Although it's comforting to note that the majority of pirates will be remaining single for the foreseeable future. 
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Vex Shallobar
Amarr
Subtle Romance
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Posted - 2008.08.02 06:09:00 -
[33]
If you don't want to face a dishonorable pirate,then don't get caught or go back to high sec. The decision that the pirate makes of honoring or not honoring a ransom is just another part of the game that is affected by the players. A list of dishonorable pirates would eliminate that aspect for those who choose not to honor ransoms and make piracy more linear.
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Lubimchik
Power Seed Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.08.02 07:02:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Vex Shallobar
If you don't want to face a dishonorable pirate,then don't get caught or go back to high sec. The decision that the pirate makes of honoring or not honoring a ransom is just another part of the game that is affected by the players. A list of dishonorable pirates would eliminate that aspect for those who choose not to honor ransoms and make piracy more linear.
omg pirate posting with alt to defend pirates....
Personally I think everyone of eve should get in an ibis or whatever noob ship you can pilot, and just bum rush their home systems.. it would be totally awesome to see fleets of battleships docking and afraid to come out cause there were like 1000 ibises camping the station...
Yeah.. we might loose 800 ibises... but it will be worth it for 1 battleship....
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Vikarion
Caldari
Onyx Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.02 08:06:00 -
[35]
Smartbombs.
--------
Where I got my great sig... |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.08.02 08:47:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 02/08/2008 08:47:35
A site using the IGB where you can search on pilot/corp/alliance, using a database with all kinds of relevant information. If setup properly one could even charge for it on a monthly basis. Some pirate corp set it up, so you make them pay you by ransoms, loot and a monthly subscription to your website!
That's like seeding the market with Hulks and strip miners before going on a killing spree, gotta create your own customers 
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Tarek Tarazul
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Posted - 2008.08.02 11:18:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Tarek Tarazul on 02/08/2008 11:20:12
Quote:
The decision that the pirate makes of honoring or not honoring a ransom is just another part of the game that is affected by the players.
No one argues that, and as a player i don't have something against them, but my char sure has.
Quote:
A list of dishonorable pirates would eliminate that aspect for those who choose not to honor ransoms and make piracy more linear.
Why would it eliminate that? If you want't to play a pirate that dishonours ransoms you are free to do so.
You may only face less people actually paying them, but that is to be expected, isn't it? I mean it would just be a knowledge base for reputations after a while. And since we cannot 'die' it is only reasonably that people who fell victims collect and share that information for their benefit.
Quote:
Smartbombs
make sure you have a vid from this, i would love to see that.
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2008.08.02 12:53:00 -
[38]
Quote:
All piracy is built upon honoring one's
hahaha as if
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Joe Starbreaker
AnTi.
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.08.02 23:04:00 -
[39]
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
All piracy is built upon honoring one's word.
Going into the sig
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
All piracy is built upon honoring one's word.
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Terra Mikael
NightCrew
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Posted - 2008.08.03 13:58:00 -
[40]
Originally by: z0de
Could you also manage a list of honourable pirates?
Or how about all the pirates that like vanilla ice cream?
Oh, me! me!
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
If they do not honor ransoms they are not pirates, period. All piracy is built upon honoring one's word.
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Terra Mikael
NightCrew
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Posted - 2008.08.03 14:06:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Terra Mikael on 03/08/2008 14:13:54
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
If they do not honor ransoms they are not pirates, period. All piracy is built upon honoring one's word.
I think I just found my new sig
And remember that peter pan cartoon, where captain hook promises tinker bell that he wouldn't hurt pan, and then does it anyway? I luled.
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
If they do not honor ransoms they are not pirates, period. All piracy is built upon honoring one's word.
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Ceremony Garp
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Posted - 2008.08.04 11:53:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tardar Muller
There is no such thing as e-honor...
Oh, this sort of thinking is just sooooooo wrong. Of course there is such a thing, as you call it; 'e-honour'. Whether that be honouring a ransom payment, helping out for nothing or whatever. As long as it's to do with you, then it's your choice to be honourable or not.
But to say there is no such thing is just not right. There is.
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