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Large Dread Gurista POS in high-sec?

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Author	Topic
McDonALTs	Posted - 2008.08.02 18:46:00 - [31] Edited by: McDonALTs on 02/08/2008 18:47:58 Originally by: Theo Samaritan Originally by: Tarminic A more realistic idea that requires 9 pilots: 8 Dominixes with 130 sensor strength + 1 Neutral in a scorpion, loaded down with remote ECCM = 8 Dominixes with ~200 Sensor Strength With 3 jammers hitting each dominix, they'll each have ~20% chance of jamming you each cycle, or 60% total. But you only need one unjammed cycle to deploy drones and target one of the jammers. By providing a supporting boost to the dominix's (the remote ECCM) the scorpion becomes a valid target, thus will most likely get jammed themself. Obviously you never fought a pos before. Gang warps in. It takes the tower 20 seconds to lock any BS. All Dominix set a target for their drones. Thats it. Who cares if you get jammed afterwards. And becides, the scorp can warp in and out from a 150km BM away to break all tower locks. The easist was to take the pos out is to use 30 people in high damage BS and warp in, shoot ECM's. Even if 25 ships are permaecm'ed, the remaining 5 BS would easaly take out a ECM every couple of mins, thus freeing up another BS to shoot. You can take out the whole lot in approx 20mins max.
Majon Tremkor Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.02 18:54:00 - [32] Originally by: Neth'Rae Originally by: Internet Knight Originally by: Neth'Rae Originally by: Internet Knight Also, I would NOT use smartbombs. All it takes is one of your wartargets to get smart and just bring in an out-of-war alt right on top of your smartbombing ship, and you will suddenly be one battleship less and won't have anything to show for it. This is a petitionable exploit.. It's no exploit. You're using smartbombs. You're given a warning that you could damage civilians while in highsec. And there's nothing preventing even a random neutral from coming in to ruin your day, let alone a wartarget's neutral alt. CCP has stated before that doing this intentionally is an exploit.. I have stated before that the universe is really a large grapefruit.. Proof or STFU.
Gul Le'mek	Posted - 2008.08.02 18:59:00 - [33] Are high-sec POS's not protected by concord? even under a wardec? or has that been fixed now?
Internet Knight	Posted - 2008.08.02 21:49:00 - [34] Originally by: Gul Le'mek Are high-sec POS's not protected by concord? even under a wardec? or has that been fixed now? High-sec POSs are protected by CONCORD against anyone that is not a wartarget. Originally by: Neth'Rae Originally by: Internet Knight Originally by: Neth'Rae Originally by: Internet Knight Also, I would NOT use smartbombs. All it takes is one of your wartargets to get smart and just bring in an out-of-war alt right on top of your smartbombing ship, and you will suddenly be one battleship less and won't have anything to show for it. This is a petitionable exploit.. It's no exploit. You're using smartbombs. You're given a warning that you could damage civilians while in highsec. And there's nothing preventing even a random neutral from coming in to ruin your day, let alone a wartarget's neutral alt. CCP has stated before that doing this intentionally is an exploit.. Proof or STFU. --- How to resolve Singularity character syncing
Mashie Saldana Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.08.02 22:08:00 - [35] Originally by: Gul Le'mek Are high-sec POS's not protected by concord? even under a wardec? or has that been fixed now? They fixed it so you can shoot a highsec POS with wardec over a year ago.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.08.02 22:08:00 - [36] Towers also randomly cycle targets, so without a gunner directing them, they tend to bombard one target for a few minutes, then move to another randomly, so even with 25 ECM arrays, you are NOT guaranteed to keep 25 targets permajammed. Unload the drones in mid-cycle when they're not targetted, then go get lunch. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
Aenis Veros Caldari Alphaflight	Posted - 2008.08.04 03:30:00 - [37] OK, this is the day after the siege, we setup shop, 21 guys (2 didn't make it) and took down all the ECM, and proceeded to shoot the tower. The op lasted for 13 hours and we realized there was not a snowballs chance in hell we could do this before DT. To be able to do this within reasonable time we would have to do it with twice as many people. Which seems like borderline invulnerability. Our efforts at blocking the ECM was nigh-impossible but we pulled through after hours. But even with 21 BS there more than half of us were permajammed from the get-go even with the ECCM. These mechanics seem b0rkened.
Zurrar Gallente Universal Exports FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.08.04 03:56:00 - [38] Originally by: Phony v2 Originally by: Soporo Fit all Ravens, fill your holds with Torp FOF's, fly your gang close to a jammer, spam missiles, launch drones. Maybe not the best option, but it might work. there is no such thing as torp FOF's cough
Druadan Aristotle Enterprises	Posted - 2008.08.04 04:55:00 - [39] Edited by: Druadan on 04/08/2008 04:55:38 Originally by: Aenis Veros OK, this is the day after the siege, we setup shop, 21 guys (2 didn't make it) and took down all the ECM, and proceeded to shoot the tower. The op lasted for 13 hours and we realized there was not a snowballs chance in hell we could do this before DT. To be able to do this within reasonable time we would have to do it with twice as many people. Which seems like borderline invulnerability. Our efforts at blocking the ECM was nigh-impossible but we pulled through after hours. But even with 21 BS there more than half of us were permajammed from the get-go even with the ECCM. These mechanics seem b0rkened. 13 hours with 21 guys? You did put large weapons on these battleships, right? Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Aenis Veros Caldari Alphaflight	Posted - 2008.08.04 05:56:00 - [40] Originally by: Druadan Edited by: Druadan on 04/08/2008 04:55:38 Originally by: Aenis Veros OK, this is the day after the siege, we setup shop, 21 guys (2 didn't make it) and took down all the ECM, and proceeded to shoot the tower. The op lasted for 13 hours and we realized there was not a snowballs chance in hell we could do this before DT. To be able to do this within reasonable time we would have to do it with twice as many people. Which seems like borderline invulnerability. Our efforts at blocking the ECM was nigh-impossible but we pulled through after hours. But even with 21 BS there more than half of us were permajammed from the get-go even with the ECCM. These mechanics seem b0rkened. 13 hours with 21 guys? You did put large weapons on these battleships, right? try it yourself.

Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.04 08:55:00 - [41] Originally by: Aenis Veros OK, someone tell me how a 25 man corporation can take down a Large Dread Guristas tower in high-sec that has 20 ECM-modules and the rest all hardeners? Towers in high-sec are b0rkened. NERF!! Field 25 battleships, ignore the ECM modules and go for tower. Shoot at it for approx 4 ..5 h, then the tower will be reinforced and all ECM and hardeners go offline. Due to the ECM cykling mechaniks it's just rather annoyoing to down described tower but far from impossible. That is unless there is defence gang ofc, but then it's not the tower you need to complain about.
Reven Cordelle Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.08.04 09:45:00 - [42] Wait... Theres a Dread Guristas' Tower in highsec? D'ya scan that shit out or what?
Druadan Aristotle Enterprises	Posted - 2008.08.04 10:07:00 - [43] Originally by: Aenis Veros Originally by: Druadan Edited by: Druadan on 04/08/2008 04:55:38 Originally by: Aenis Veros OK, this is the day after the siege, we setup shop, 21 guys (2 didn't make it) and took down all the ECM, and proceeded to shoot the tower. The op lasted for 13 hours and we realized there was not a snowballs chance in hell we could do this before DT. To be able to do this within reasonable time we would have to do it with twice as many people. Which seems like borderline invulnerability. Our efforts at blocking the ECM was nigh-impossible but we pulled through after hours. But even with 21 BS there more than half of us were permajammed from the get-go even with the ECCM. These mechanics seem b0rkened. 13 hours with 21 guys? You did put large weapons on these battleships, right? try it yourself. We took apart a medium DG tower in highsec in six hours (five to put it in reinforced, a further hour once it came out) with six to eight battleships (varied throughout the op, we'll take a median of seven). That included taking out two scramblers and a webber, which are each roughly equivalent in toughness to an ECM module, in the first hour before we moved onto the tower, and the corp who owned the tower started putting resistance modules up about 20% of the way though, with two of each resistance module being active by the time we were at 60% shields on the tower. Looking at the attributes of the large DG tower compared to the medium, it will take roughly twice the time (a little over due to shield recharge rate increase) to take down the large tower. So my squad of six to eight battleships would take, say, eight and a half hours to put it into reinforced (six, minus one which was used for taking out modules, minus one which was post-reinforced mode, 2 for difference in toughness). So if there are 20 ECM modules around there, and it took an hour for my squad of six to eight to take out three similar modules on our starbase-smash in question, we're looking at six hours forty minutes to take down all the ECM mods, assuming no jams (not a valid assumption as we'd all be jammed to buggery). You had 21 battleships, and you say half of those were jammed, so we'll call that ten. Ten battleships could take the 20 ECM modules down in (7/106.67) 4.669 hours, and that's if half of your twenty are jammed even down to the last module, which won't be the case. Off the top of my head, like all of this is, you're looking at something like three hours to take them all down, and I'd say that's the top end of the estimate. So that's a guesstimate of three hours to clear the ECM modules and (7/21 * 8.5) 2.83 hours to put the starbase into reinforced. Six hours total to take the tower from fully operational to reinforced mode, unless I've brainfarted and forgot something very important. I'm not having a go, I'm just saying from my experience of smashing starbases, something sounds off. It could be I'm forgetting something (quite possible; it was 6am when I posted and it's 11am now, and I haven't slept yet) but going from my example starbase smash and scaling things up, it shouldn't have taken thirteen hours only to get to the point where you realised it would be impossible. Maybe my scaling up is faulty, or based on a fallacious assumption or something I've overlooked. I dunno. I'd quite like to talk to you in-game about it though. This stuff is definitely my bag. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Aenis Veros Caldari Alphaflight	Posted - 2008.08.04 10:30:00 - [44] Edited by: Aenis Veros on 04/08/2008 10:31:13 Originally by: Druadan We took apart a medium DG tower in highsec in six hours Medium is very different since you do more damage (large bubble pushes you far far outside of blaster optimal, and even autos - having to switch to rails in our case made it that much more of a hassle). ECM was hell, and what's worse when we checked the damn tower today they had repaired every single damn module xD ... iirc, there were 4 of each hardener on the POS aside from the ECM. None of the boys are any keen on doing this again and we're a bit demoralized from the op (people started dropping off when we started clocking 10+). edit: ECM mods have insane jammer strenghts :P
MaidMarion Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.04 12:15:00 - [45] Originally by: Aenis Veros Edited by: Aenis Veros on 04/08/2008 10:31:13 None of the boys are any keen on doing this again and we're a bit demoralized from the op (people started dropping off when we started clocking 10+). edit: ECM mods have insane jammer strenghts :P Now ya have a taste of pos warfare. People actually leave 0.0 because of this stuff ya know. If ya really want said tower gone, hire mercs.
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.08.04 12:26:00 - [46] Hopefully the mods on the POS make this worth while. Otherwise ... but yeah, sounds very tough. Just go for someone who has not a single defensive mod on their tower or only has 5 guns. Heaps of them around. Dead easy. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.04 12:40:00 - [47] ECM are considered large modules, so they have insane amount of hp. You can put tower faster into reinforced than to disable 20 ECM modules. They are there just to annoyance and they do that indeed. Otherwise one could load lazors and go afk for half a day to put undefended tower into reinforced. ECM makes sure attacker has to be present all the time to reactivate it's weapons after jam cykle. So if there is no defence gang nor pos gunners you are looking at up to approx 8h to reinforce it with 20 BS against fully hardened ECM heavy tower. Now if defender has ability to field pos gunners and has actually some weapons present it can get a bit grim. Unmanned tower on it's own is just matter of time.
Iyanah Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.08.04 13:08:00 - [48] Originally by: Neth'Rae CCP has stated before that doing this intentionally is an exploit.. true, however, many corps use "neutral" players to haul POS fuel to the POSes or otherwise move around goods via their stations, meaning their fuel gets in come rain or pew-pewing bad guys. how can they tell the difference between one of these trying to run the blockade into the pos to refuel it, and someone intentionally getting themselves shot down by SBs? there's no proof. Can't see how they could justify taking action against someone who could have been as much of a victim of the incident by inadvertantly warping into a SB blast and losing a ship. dunno about you, but my directional scans and probes don't tell me what weapons people are shooting at what target. maybe i need to upgrade to a tech 3 ship for that :P ========================================== that's no moon... oh, wait, yes it is, the space station's out the other window.
Druadan Aristotle Enterprises	Posted - 2008.08.04 15:44:00 - [49] Edited by: Druadan on 04/08/2008 15:44:27 Originally by: Aenis Veros Edited by: Aenis Veros on 04/08/2008 10:31:13 Originally by: Druadan We took apart a medium DG tower in highsec in six hours Medium is very different since you do more damage (large bubble pushes you far far outside of blaster optimal, and even autos - having to switch to rails in our case made it that much more of a hassle). ECM was hell, and what's worse when we checked the damn tower today they had repaired every single damn module xD ... iirc, there were 4 of each hardener on the POS aside from the ECM. None of the boys are any keen on doing this again and we're a bit demoralized from the op (people started dropping off when we started clocking 10+). edit: ECM mods have insane jammer strenghts :P Ah, shield radius, of course. We were using rails and whatnot anyway, but we would indeed need to take a small damage hit from using longer range ammo. Wouldn't have been a huge put-down for how we did it but certainly noticeable. So with all this ECM and four hardeners of each type on the starbase, did it actually have anything productive on it or was it just shiny jackdaw bait? Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.04 17:39:00 - [50] POS's are overpowered, there are no counters for them, they need to be nerfed seriously tho, who wants to shoot random stationary objects for hours at a time, reduce pos hp, anchorables, and station services

Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.08.04 18:02:00 - [51] Originally by: Matrixcvd POS's are overpowered, there are no counters for them, they need to be nerfed seriously tho, who wants to shoot random stationary objects for hours at a time, reduce pos hp, anchorables, and station services Why? If you want them gone do the time. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.04 18:18:00 - [52] Originally by: Aenis Veros Originally by: Druadan Originally by: Aenis Veros ... 13 hours with 21 guys? You did put large weapons on these battleships, right? try it yourself. I did a fair while back, took somewhere in the area of 6 hours with at most 15 battleships, though it was IIRC not a faction tower, it would not have made that big a difference if it were. Here's a tip: go amarr or caldari. Torp raven can hit out at those ranges, as can any tachabbadon/tachageddon for at the very least 800 dps per ship assuming the pilot isn't under a month old =\ these numbers BTW are with named weapons (I get 890something out of a named abaddon fit). Sentry domi struggles to put out half that dps, and though you can get decent numbers with rails, they don't compare to torps and for minmatar if you can't use tech II large autocannons your DPS at 30k+ is going to suck. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.08.04 19:24:00 - [53] It can be done. Hire people who know how. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2008.08.04 19:54:00 - [54] Edited by: SurrenderMonkey on 04/08/2008 19:55:05 Originally by: Tarminic With 3 jammers hitting each dominix, they'll each have ~20% chance of jamming you each cycle, or 60% total. 48.8%. Edit: Assuming the 20% per is correct in the first place, I mean. 3 individual events at 20% probability != 60%, though. Not even close.
Aenis Veros Caldari Alphaflight	Posted - 2008.08.04 20:26:00 - [55] Nearly all of us are noobs, the oldest of us is 10 months in the game so no maxed skills to speak of. We've already picked a new target which is a standard caldari large control tower with 27 (!) cruise missile batteries and a lab. Should go down a lot quicker.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.04 20:45:00 - [56] Originally by: SurrenderMonkey Edited by: SurrenderMonkey on 04/08/2008 19:55:05 Originally by: Tarminic With 3 jammers hitting each dominix, they'll each have ~20% chance of jamming you each cycle, or 60% total. 48.8%. Edit: Assuming the 20% per is correct in the first place, I mean. 3 individual events at 20% probability != 60%, though. Not even close. POS ECM has primary strenght of 75 and 'other' of 25. If it hits a BS with proper jammer it will jam it and unless there is heavy ECCM almost always jams even if hitting incorrect type of BS. With correct ECM battery you can permajam carriers if they dont mount ECCM. It has however sensor resolution of 25 so it will take a long while to lock anything. We are talking about minutes here.
Aenis Veros Caldari Alphaflight	Posted - 2008.08.04 20:53:00 - [57] When you're sitting at the same POS for hours at the time, 25 seconds is a short moment. :p

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