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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.05 15:31:00 -
[361]
Quote: a number of the CSM members are misusing the whole idea
If I may interject here. So we are on the same page could you outline for me what you think constitutes misusing the whole idea please?
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Tzar'rim
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.05 15:34:00 -
[362]
To paraphase someone we both know; you're one of his cronies, LAL at your post and opinions.
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.05 15:36:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Tzar'rim To paraphase someone we both know; you're one of his cronies, LAL at your post and opinions.
I see...
Well that's the end of that one then.
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC
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Posted - 2008.08.05 15:50:00 -
[364]
What amazes me is how 'shocked' and 'suprised' people seem to be that:
a. CSM delegates disagree with each other to the point of inactivity.
b. CSM delegates have opinions on other delegates and players that might not always be positive.
c. CSM delegates (as a rough representation of a community often childish in its behaviour) can, on occasion, act in a childish fashion.
Why is any of this suprising to anyone? Seems to be a 'lot of drama' in this post about something that is predictable and expected.
C.
Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
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Azure Skyclad
Amarr Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.05 15:58:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Miz Cenuij CSM is a joke run by a selfish few seeking to boost thief own interests. The leaked thread showed them for the joke they are. Disband it.
Given it was us (the player base......even if it was only 11% of us, we're still players) who voted them into the CSM then you actually speak more truth than you probably realise. GG Miz
http://ultravixen.co.uk/ |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.08.05 16:01:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Cailais What amazes me is how 'shocked' and 'suprised' people seem to be that:
a. CSM delegates disagree with each other to the point of inactivity.
b. CSM delegates have opinions on other delegates and players that might not always be positive.
c. CSM delegates (as a rough representation of a community often childish in its behaviour) can, on occasion, act in a childish fashion.
Why is any of this suprising to anyone? Seems to be a 'lot of drama' in this post about something that is predictable and expected.
C.
Because the CSM document describes that CSM members are supposed to set the standard for how people behave. Jade signed up for CSM knowing that he would be a representative, who is expected to behave maturely. But he has now several time proven, that he simply can't behave.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.05 16:02:00 -
[367]
And clearly the most mature, responsible, and high-minded plan as a fellow CSM member is to point this out at every given opportunity.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC
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Posted - 2008.08.05 16:57:00 -
[368]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Cailais What amazes me is how 'shocked' and 'suprised' people seem to be that:
a. CSM delegates disagree with each other to the point of inactivity.
b. CSM delegates have opinions on other delegates and players that might not always be positive.
c. CSM delegates (as a rough representation of a community often childish in its behaviour) can, on occasion, act in a childish fashion.
Why is any of this suprising to anyone? Seems to be a 'lot of drama' in this post about something that is predictable and expected.
C.
Because the CSM document describes that CSM members are supposed to set the standard for how people behave. Jade signed up for CSM knowing that he would be a representative, who is expected to behave maturely. But he has now several time proven, that he simply can't behave.
Well of course that depends on how you judge mature behaviour. Assuming he's not running around CCP's Offices shouting 'pew pew' at everyone then one could argue he's acting 'relatively' maturely. Petulant, stubborn or erratic behaviour might draw criticism that a person as being 'immature' but then you can often see children screaming 'omg youre sooo immature' at each other.
It all rather depends on who is judging that behaviour and I would assume, in this case, that CCP are the final arbitrators in this regard. Which sounds very sensible in my view.
Id also expect that if CSM delegates have a specific issue with another CSM delegate that they bring it to CCPs attention privately and abide by CCPs judgement as a result, as opposed to public criticism.
From an external point of view (and as it is external this could easily be a poor perspective) the CSM seems to wrapped up in its own internal mechanisms, and possibly its importance. Ultimately its simply a small sample of the player base, providing one or more points of view on EVE.
It doesnt do this in isolation. Are we really to believe that because the 'nano-nerf' wasnt chosen by the CSM as a key issue that CCP are blissfully unaware of the current furore on the forums? Or that it wont be brought up by one or more players at fanfest?
The CSM is simply one small part of CCPs interaction with a wide assortment of player views, opinions and ideas from a number of sources. Its not, and never will be, a final decider on what determines EVEs present, or future.
C.
Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
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PsychoBones
Morphine Inc
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Posted - 2008.08.05 17:10:00 -
[369]
Who cares? Just play the ****ing game. --------------------------------------------------------------
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Dionisius
Gallente Sincarnate Holding
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Posted - 2008.08.05 17:15:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Malla Mai
Originally by: Dionisius People... this is a game, you folks are " fighting " over a game.
People fight for and over things they care about. It isn't always a good thing, but at least it is perfectly human. When people have played this game for years, it is pretty clear that they care about it (they may hate it at times, but nevertheless it matters to them).
Most of the things we humans fight over are totally unimportant on the grand scale of things, anyway. Want to see people fighting over REALLY stupid things? Try getting married.
That's just my own personal opinion, though. Anybody who feels EVE is only a game and thus totally unimportant, feel free to donate all your stuff and ISK to me.
Well i beg to differ, EvE is a MMORPG category GAME, ONLINE GAME!
What i find interesting to observe here is that this mirrors RL to some extension, this " powerbloc " fight is a perfect example of it, while Jade has his fight over something with Verone , while the strings are pulled by another group from behind Jade's back lets not forget 2 things.
I care enough about EvE to play it and enjoy it, not watching this debacle that happens in the forums envolving alts and petty whining when the REAL POWER and the REAL DECISION MAKING all centers around CCP.
The CSM project, like me and many others have said, is flawed, open to corruption, this thread proves it ( like many others ) and it solves nothing from the problems that the playerbase experience everyday.
But then thats just me, btw i am "married" , believe me fighting over "e-power" in a spaceship shooty-shooty game, when you don't invest much , besides your subscription and time in playing, is a bit silly.
The real problem in all this is what i once said, its a bad bad ideia when Devs and the playerbase mix, and an even worst one when you try to give "some" degree ( or the ilusion of it) of power to the players.
CCP decides things no matter what, or thats the way it should be while keeping an open ear towards players opinions, but never what is being done atm.
The other issue is the " celebrity " status some players achieve, the way it is done celebrity only serves few purposes, wich include for example character assassination, while it should contribute to the playerbase in terms of story, for instance, and actually helping other players, then again i was called naive for expecting the best of people, silly me, this is the interwebz were we all use a spandex suit with an S on our chests and the undewear over the pants.
People want to give ideias, contribute to the comunity, thats great!, but there is no need for these kindergarden fights we are witness. _____________________________________
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Dionisius
Gallente Sincarnate Holding
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Posted - 2008.08.05 17:21:00 -
[371]
Sorry for doubleposting but this also needs to be said.
Its a shame that CCP allows, and the GM's know who these people are, the alt spamming and the sh*t posting that has occorred in every thread created in the forums.
Especially in the CAOD and General forums.
Thats another issue that CCP should really look into because i see ( and i have had posts ) " moderated " due to content when i see alts and other people posting 10x worst things, like insults, flamebait and the sort , and they get to keep posting and posting and posting...
This is one duality of criteria i would like to see changed by CCP. _____________________________________
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Flavia Clio
Ero Guro VENOM Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.05 17:44:00 -
[372]
Someone vote my ass in as a CSM. I'm good at $hit like representing and $hit.
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Malla Mai
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.05 17:52:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Dionisius I care enough about EvE to play it and enjoy it, not watching this debacle that happens in the forums envolving alts and petty whining when the REAL POWER and the REAL DECISION MAKING all centers around CCP.
Hm, I probably slightly misunderstood the meaning or tone of your earlier post, because I can mostly agree with these later posts of yours as far as the CSM issue is concerned.
Well, English isn't my native language, so at least that can serve as a "good" excuse for my mistake.
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Dionisius
Gallente Sincarnate Holding
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Posted - 2008.08.05 18:04:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Malla Mai
Originally by: Dionisius I care enough about EvE to play it and enjoy it, not watching this debacle that happens in the forums envolving alts and petty whining when the REAL POWER and the REAL DECISION MAKING all centers around CCP.
Hm, I probably slightly misunderstood the meaning or tone of your earlier post, because I can mostly agree with these later posts of yours as far as the CSM issue is concerned.
Well, English isn't my native language, so at least that can serve as a "good" excuse for my mistake.
Lol regular tone, i just wanted to highlight some points nothing more.
Oh and 16h straigh of work plus english not being my native language can make me a bit confusing to read.
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Ronja
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Posted - 2008.08.05 20:03:00 -
[375]
signed
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.08.05 20:17:00 -
[376]
Originally by: PsychoBones Who cares? Just play the ****ing game.
This tbh. It's what I do moastly and am always having a blast. The forums are great fun too when your scanning out stuff or running a mining op but its just an amusing side attraction to me really if ingame activities allow the time to be diverted. Like I posted earlier in the thread if you have issues with the game or have thought up some cool new feature then use the already provided game development and feature discussion forum sections to get them in the public and Dev eye. Your much much moar likely to have a Dev consider your issues or ideas in those sections than letting a bunch of numptys* (*Jades publicly stated term for his impression of his fellow players that don't agree with him and arguably his sole reason to join the CSM) argue over what should or should not be brought to CCP's attention.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Thamul
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Posted - 2008.08.05 20:31:00 -
[377]
Originally by: Ruze
Why don't you write the code for them, since it's as easy as you make it sound? I'm sure they'd appreciate the hell out of your donation and effort. Might even give you a nifty item or ship for it.
I'll take you up on that offer.
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.05 22:16:00 -
[378]
Originally by: Thamul
Originally by: Ruze
Why don't you write the code for them, since it's as easy as you make it sound? I'm sure they'd appreciate the hell out of your donation and effort. Might even give you a nifty item or ship for it.
I'll take you up on that offer.
Here you go.
Once hired, fix the lag. Going by the whines from uber coders on these forums, it's likely a single line of code:
Lag == 0
Or maybe it's:
/delete Jita
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Taradis
Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.07 08:23:00 -
[379]
Edited by: Taradis on 07/08/2008 08:24:24
Originally by: Viqtoria didn't verone appear on those alliance tournament things? and narrate some of the games and that? jade I don't know where you're getting your bile from but unless he punched babies every time the camera was off him he seemed like a very nice, casual man. What's with all this 'meeting people at fanfests', 'internet toughguys' and you got 'no guts' rubbish.
anyhow for what it's worth my opinion in very short form is; this is a game, i do not want to play a game where game design could, under some circumstances, be shaped by a select few players who are not accountable (not on the ccp payroll). The idea is simply abhorrent to me.
Yea I remember watching the tourney's and Verone was their doing play by play basis among other things. Verone did an awesome job imo. I respect Verone and I have never met him in game or out of game and he seems like a standup dude and is definatley passionate about Eve and the direction it is going in. I am hooked on Eve as well and wouldn't dream of playing a differant MMO hell Eve is the first thing I do when I get home from work in the mornings, log in soons i walk thru the door then get everything else done....
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SOFcode Z777
Caldari Human Enhancement Tech.
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Posted - 2008.08.07 15:32:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Taradis Edited by: Taradis on 07/08/2008 08:24:24
Originally by: Viqtoria didn't verone appear on those alliance tournament things? and narrate some of the games and that? jade I don't know where you're getting your bile from but unless he punched babies every time the camera was off him he seemed like a very nice, casual man. What's with all this 'meeting people at fanfests', 'internet toughguys' and you got 'no guts' rubbish.
anyhow for what it's worth my opinion in very short form is; this is a game, i do not want to play a game where game design could, under some circumstances, be shaped by a select few players who are not accountable (not on the ccp payroll). The idea is simply abhorrent to me.
Yea I remember watching the tourney's and Verone was their doing play by play basis among other things. Verone did an awesome job imo. I respect Verone and I have never met him in game or out of game and he seems like a standup dude and is definatley passionate about Eve and the direction it is going in. I am hooked on Eve as well and wouldn't dream of playing a differant MMO hell Eve is the first thing I do when I get home from work in the mornings, log in soons i walk thru the door then get everything else done....
To be honest, both Jade and Verone are passionate players and very nice people oog as well. The ways of expressing this passion for the game is what varies, depending of the circumstance and ambient of involvement and I think it's just plain open to see that CSM has become a very tense "battleground" and people responds to it already under this stress. The latest logs, threads, actions has been poor as a display of what these members and community should be. We can all agree with that in a certain extend but still, should this only be a reason to declare the failure of the whole system? I'd say, if players are at least minimum interested on its improvement, let's make good criticisms and help CSM guys to make it better, inside and with their own attitudes. After all said and done, this CSM term is almost over and if nothing else, some legacy will be left to next CSM or to conclude that the system is broken and disband it, as the OP proposed it. Either way, something will be learned from it, and at the end of the day we have to thank the CSM guys for being part of this somehow "first laboratory".
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Praleon
Gallente Eve Liberation Force Liberty.
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Posted - 2008.08.07 17:17:00 -
[381]
They all seem to have their own agendas, and, it would work better if they were representatives of a voting population rather than pundits who ascribe their own opinions before the opinions of the body public.
What they choose to escalate and why should be up to the players at large, not just 3 players with the biggest mouths.
The activities of the group should be publicized better in and out of game. Most people that play the game don't even really know about this group of people, when they meet, what they talk about, how to contact them, where to read their meeting minutes, or any of that stuff.
If any other PLAYERS of EVE are going to interface with CCP, they need to be un-biased in the 0.0 conflicts. Neutral players without an agenda, who listen and respond to what the other players want AS A WHOLE rather than just them.
If it's not that way, I agree with the OP. Disband it. Praleon CEO Judgement Klan Corporation
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.08.07 17:41:00 -
[382]
See sig -
DesuSigs |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari The Monkey Sanctuary
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Posted - 2008.08.07 19:51:00 -
[383]
Edited by: Khamal Jolstien on 07/08/2008 19:51:23 As I see it, the real problem with the CSM is that they don't represent very many people at all. Look at the voter turn out? This isn't a country, it's a game. If that many people didn't want the CSM, who are they to speak for everyone, and why should it exist?
I mostly see CSM issues about changing things, when many of us like things the way they are/were.
Yes, I voted in the elections. I clicked "Abstain", since there was no option to not have a CSM.
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Juzo
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.08.08 00:44:00 -
[384]
I dont know if its because its almost 4am and I have been at work for 12 hours, but after reading all of this including the chatlog from the latest meeting. I have to say: 1. Thats the funniest sig I have seen in a long time. 2. Can I have it?
Originally by: Crumplecorn See sig
I came, I saw, I burped. |
Latex Underwear
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Posted - 2008.08.12 03:33:00 -
[385]
Originally by: LaVista Vista And it has been pointed out so many times. It's quite tragic. But I think it's important to point out, just because he is the chairman, it doesn't mean he represent the CSM as a whole.
This is a great quote. Generally, in most situation, when a chairman speaks about that which he chairs...he's representing it as a whole (that's kind of why they're the chairman).
The whole CSM thing is a joke and reading Jade's posts just cements that for me. We'd all be better of if he and the rest of the so-called representatives stepped down and CCP started over again - with some quorum requirements next time.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.08.12 03:39:00 -
[386]
Originally by: Juzo I dont know if its because its almost 4am and I have been at work for 12 hours, but after reading all of this including the chatlog from the latest meeting. I have to say: 1. Thats the funniest sig I have seen in a long time. 2. Can I have it?
Originally by: Crumplecorn See sig
As usual a Crumplecorn sig /threads the debate.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Latex Underwear
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Posted - 2008.08.12 03:48:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Victor Vision 3) Lack of possibility for players to give mandatory issues of discussion to the CSM (who will then discuss them fairly with CCP) VV
For the 'voting' feature in that CSM love-fest to have any meaning, there has to be a "thumbs down" option. Otherwise everything in there looks like it has general support as dissenting views cannot be posted without buffing the apparent support that the issue has.
This more than anything is what drove me out of that forum.
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Gonada
Gallente R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.08.12 12:05:00 -
[388]
and please tell me why theres at least 3 - 4 members of the CSM that are goonfleet?
just seems so wrong
Please, jump into traffic
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.12 12:07:00 -
[389]
Originally by: Gonada and please tell me why theres at least 3 - 4 members of the CSM that are goonfleet?
just seems so wrong
Hey Ma, I can count! |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.08.12 12:21:00 -
[390]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Juzo I dont know if its because its almost 4am and I have been at work for 12 hours, but after reading all of this including the chatlog from the latest meeting. I have to say: 1. Thats the funniest sig I have seen in a long time. 2. Can I have it?
Originally by: Crumplecorn See sig
As usual a Crumplecorn sig /threads the debate.
I'm glad people like that one, wasn't too sure about it myself.
@Juzo, if you want to use it go ahead, follow the link in my sig, ???, Profit.
Thread is now no longer about my sigs. -
DesuSigs |
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