Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 .. 14 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 02:27:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Stitcher Maybe if more than 10% of the players had bothered to vote, it would be a little more representative? And, who knows, maybe the results would have been exactly the same.
Voter apathy can hardly be blamed on CCP.
Probably not as nomatter who gets voted in they will get to decide on matters they have no clue about without doing even basic research. And chances are that the majority on any given council of 10 wont really know the issue presented. Vote against the nano nerf! |
Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 02:34:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Stitcher Maybe if more than 10% of the players had bothered to vote, it would be a little more representative? And, who knows, maybe the results would have been exactly the same.
Voter apathy can hardly be blamed on CCP.
Probably not as nomatter who gets voted in they will get to decide on matters they have no clue about without doing even basic research. And chances are that the majority on any given council of 10 wont really know the issue presented.
The problem is that few people want to come here and voice their ideas and be subject to the garbage that goes on here on a routine basis. Most would rather play the game. The fact that CCP has failed to get meaningful global input is related to their lack of vision and not much more. Ideas have been proposed for 4 years for attaining this feedback and 4 years later those features are still in the same patch as the Corp Interface rewrite.
|
Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 02:38:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Raging Negotiator Adapt or die, right?
Another vacuous argument. The fact that people will adapt does not change the relative meter of a thing. A couple years ago a volcano erupted on a small island in the pacific. After being nearly wiped out the people adapted and overcame. Does that mean the volcanic eruption was good? The whole "adapt or die" thing is apparent and unnecessary.
|
Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 02:44:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Rells The CSM is a complete and utter failure.
I for one, agree.
I'm also intrigued to see where the cutbacks have been made in CCP's offerings to the playerbase to be able to manage and devote so much time to the CSM.
I'm sure they'll rear their head and become apparent at some point.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 02:47:00 -
[35]
CSM is useless. |
DubanFP
Caldari Out of Order Vanguard.
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 02:50:00 -
[36]
Edited by: DubanFP on 02/08/2008 02:53:58
Originally by: rells
Originally by: DubanFP I agree with rells. He doesn't explain it quite as I did, but his views mirror my own. The CSM and forum whiners only represent the views of those who want to change EVE, but ignores the view of those who see what doesn't need to change. In the end it just winds up with many people asking for changes while the many who don't always want change aren't being represented.
Sorry for for beating you to it? |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 02:51:00 -
[37]
Rells: Please, quit your whining and play the game or go home. Your thread was totally useless and not in the least constructive. The CSM is an important addition to the Eve universe and will do great things as time goes on; it just takes some time to work out the kinks. Though I agree the voting should have been handled differently (instant run-off voting instead of 1 account one vote). |
kryptteacher
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 02:52:00 -
[38]
if someone from your corp was a csm would you be of the opinion that they were useless?
contribute to the thread ... state some reasons. |
Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 03:16:00 -
[39]
Originally by: kryptteacher contribute to the thread ... state some reasons.
It's a waste of time because the CSM has no real power. It's a waste of time because there's a big pile of heavily biased people as representatives. It's a waste of time because the chairman is overzealous, which has been proven. It's a waste of time because regardless, players should never have the ability to decide on how it's developed. It's a waste of time because the CSM is a hollow shadow of what it was originally intended to be, after the recent unpleasentness. It's a waste of time because more than anything people are whinging about nerfing and boosting ships rather than actual game issues.
There are thousands more reasons, but frankly I can't be arsed to type them all.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Internet Knight
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 03:31:00 -
[40]
Hi Rells.
I'll agree that at this moment, the CSM seems to be... well, less than advertised. I would say though that perhaps we should give them more time. They are, after all, not CCP. They have their own lives. They're not devs -- they can't create new/fix existing features themselves, only suggest what CCP should do. And they are bound by NDA so they might not be able to tell us everyone that goes on behind closed doors.
That last bit is probably simultaneously the most revealing and the most pointless of all.
Originally by: Akita T The low voter turnover (I mean, come on, not even 10% of accounts voted) was pathetic, the ingame publicity for it was close to non-existant, there were far too many candidates (some of them completely unremarkable), the CSM meeting in Iceland should have been held closer to the end of the CSM lifecycle rather than so close to the start (and the "minutes of the meeting" were not even dissapointing, they were basically meaningless, a couple of devblogs could have said more) and so on and so forth.
TBH, the low voter turnout had a lot to do with people not caring; not caring to read the news, not caring to vote, not caring that CCP wants to have the look of trying. That, and some people were temporarily banned right before the voting was announced and their bans expired right after voting ended. I couldn't vote. :(
Originally by: Rells By design. There are other ways to interract. Program an in-game voting mechanism. Open up the bug tracking database to be public for anything not an exploit and allow players to see progress on an issue and vote on issues like in the Apache software foundation projects. ... There are tons of ideas that dsimply havent happened.
I have, in fact, suggested that CCP should automate the Known Issues page to Mindstar here. I then pointed it out to Mindstar on IRC a short while later, and he said that it's something that he wants to do. Of course, you know what that means... "Soon (tm)".
It simply hasn't happened. If I could help to make it happen, I would. Until that opportunity presents itself, I'm stuck in the same boat as you: whining to CCP because they don't work hard enough on the things that matter to me.
For what it's worth, I do believe that speed as is on Tranquility is broken and needs to be fixed -- very much broken for really expensive setups and even a little broken for "standard" nano setups which most people can afford. The fact remains that as is, it is far easier to set up a nano gang than it is to counter a nano gang. I don't believe that the changes CCP have so far on sisi are the right changes, but I do believe that the fact that they are working on the issue is a good thing.
--- How to resolve Singularity character syncing
|
|
Internet Knight
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 03:33:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Verone There are thousands more reasons, but frankly it's a waste of time to type them all.
Just thought I'd help you there :P
--- How to resolve Singularity character syncing
|
Jenna Shame
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 03:36:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Rells The creation of the CSM was supposed to be an interface point for interracting with the players, determining the player priorities and providing oversight of changes in the game. In reality it is a PR stunt, free trip to Iceland and an ego fluff for the members that were "elected" in a dubious process. As a player I don't see the value in the committee and don't want them feigning to speak for me. The fact that they seem to have 0 influence leads to the facade and thus the uselessness of the committee.
And while you are at it, stop making wide sweeping massive changes in the entire game balance based upon the whines of the 10% of the eve population willing to participate in this sewer of a forum. Most of the people whining should, in my opinion, stop posting and start learnign how to play, thinking tactically and recognizing that the game should not be boiled down to who has the biggest gun.
Thanks. We now return you to your regular whine and flame fest.
P.S. No, I am not a nano ship junkie, I'm rarely in nano ships so nice try on that one.
You mean something that attracted a whooping 11% of the playerbase to vote isn't a real oversight body?
It was always an obvious PR stunt, and I'm just glad it is. I'd hate to see those goobers have any say in the game development.
|
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 03:57:00 -
[43]
Agony Empire, please disband Rells
Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
|
Khlitouris RegusII
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 10:46:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Doc Fury Edited by: Doc Fury on 02/08/2008 00:08:25 Actually (I am paraphrasing here) the CSM was originally supposed to fly to Iceland to dig into the soft and dark underbelly of CCP in the spirit of "transparency" so that stuff like the T20 incident didn't happen again.
Look what we got.
Well we all knew it was only a farce anyway.
|
LaVista Vista
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:13:00 -
[45]
Quote: The creation of the CSM was supposed to be an interface point for interracting with the players, determining the player priorities and providing oversight of changes in the game
Please point me to where it ISN'T doing that, at present.
Quote: In reality it is a PR stunt
Tell me, where is the proof? There is no hard evidence, that says it is. Sure, there HAS been press-coverage about it. But that doesn't make it solely a PR stunt.
Quote: As a player I don't see the value in the committee and don't want them feigning to speak for me
I would not vote for anybody in the American election either, if I had the option. But that is not to say some people believe in the election and the people who's running for president. I talk to people every day, who is happy about the CSM.
Quote: The fact that they seem to have 0 influence leads to the facade and thus the uselessness of the committee.
Whoa. 0 influence? HOW did you measure that? Were you there when we talked to CCP? Or do you know something the council itself, doesn't?
Quote: And while you are at it, stop making wide sweeping massive changes in the entire game balance based upon the whines of the 10% of the eve population willing to participate in this sewer of a forum.
But it would have to be done, since the physics engine breaks at 8+km/s. So how can it be based upon the whine of 10% of the population?
Quote: Most of the people whining should, in my opinion, stop posting and start learnign how to play, thinking tactically and recognizing that the game should not be boiled down to who has the biggest gun.
I agree. But that is not to say that nano is working as intended, at present.
You are largely oversimplifying and making claims which you can't back. You are setting unreasonable expectations, which has SEVERAL times been pointed out on the forums in various threads. It's like saying that the CSM is fail because they can't get dev X fired.
It's way too easy, Rells. Please, be a bit more creative. Rather than an obvious troll post, you could at least have a bit of substance.
|
ApaKaka
Lone Starr Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:14:00 -
[46]
Doesn't help that CCP only are doing this to fix their broken physics engine either. So rather than balance warfare out, they are capping speed below the 6k limit where the engine breaks down.
Maybe they should just start with fixing their engine and keeping these changes on a decent level that doesn't make 50% of the lineup of ships in the game useless in their current roles?
|
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:18:00 -
[47]
Originally by: LaVista Vista ... you could at least have a bit of substance.
This is precisely what the CSM lacks. Substance.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
|
LaVista Vista
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:20:00 -
[48]
Edited by: LaVista Vista on 02/08/2008 11:21:31
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: LaVista Vista ... you could at least have a bit of substance.
This is precisely what the CSM lacks. Substance.
Then tell me. What substance should the CSM have? Did you read the documents there was written, which was then discussed about with CSM? Have you seen the projects that the council is working on, in order to propose how the "future" of EVE could look like?
Chances are "no".
EDIT: But that is not to say it couldn't improve. Read the last meeting we had(The last 20 minutes or so) and then go over and read the posts I made about the ship modification issues. That is where I would like to see CSM go, in order to have more worth-while substance. Right now there is waaaay too many small issues, which CCP are working on anyways.
|
Bob Stuart
D. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:22:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Rells
And while you are at it, stop making wide sweeping massive changes in the entire game balance based upon the whines of the 10% of the eve population willing to participate in this sewer of a forum. Most of the people whining should, in my opinion, stop posting and start learnign how to play, thinking tactically and recognizing that the game should not be boiled down to who has the biggest gun.
I used Eve-Search (All Hail Chribba!) and searched for "Rells whine", because some of this seemed familiar.
I came across this.
I bet 1M isk, that some kind of change will occur in the CSM. And 2M that Rells will continue to post "criticisms".
|
ApaKaka
Lone Starr Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:23:00 -
[50]
Originally by: LaVista Vista Edited by: LaVista Vista on 02/08/2008 11:21:31
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: LaVista Vista ... you could at least have a bit of substance.
This is precisely what the CSM lacks. Substance.
Then tell me. What substance should the CSM have? Did you read the documents there was written, which was then discussed about with CSM? Have you seen the projects that the council is working on, in order to propose how the "future" of EVE could look like?
Chances are "no".
EDIT: But that is not to say it couldn't improve. Read the last meeting we had(The last 20 minutes or so) and then go over and read the posts I made about the ship modification issues. That is where I would like to see CSM go, in order to have more worth-while substance. Right now there is waaaay too many small issues, which CCP are working on anyways.
Umm.. you said it yourself there LaVista. Sorry, but if the general player has no idea what the CSM is doing, you have failed. I thought the point of your little clique was to interface between the players and CCP.
If the players have no idea what you do or do not care about it, you are already defunct.
|
|
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:28:00 -
[51]
Originally by: LaVista Vista Edited by: LaVista Vista on 02/08/2008 11:21:31
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: LaVista Vista ... you could at least have a bit of substance.
This is precisely what the CSM lacks. Substance.
Then tell me. What substance should the CSM have?
Any substance at all would be fine.
Quote: ... That is where I would like to see CSM go, in order to have more worth-while substance. Right now there is waaaay too many small issues, which CCP are working on anyways.
Well I'm glad I'm not holding my breath. Let me know when you think you've accomplished something noteworthy, i.e. "substance".
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
|
LaVista Vista
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:33:00 -
[52]
Originally by: ApaKaka
Umm.. you said it yourself there LaVista. Sorry, but if the general player has no idea what the CSM is doing, you have failed. I thought the point of your little clique was to interface between the players and CCP.
If the players have no idea what you do or do not care about it, you are already defunct.
You make a good point.
The thing I find, when I talk to people, is that they had no idea the council was going on, but they were quite excited to hear about what the council is doing.
I think the information stream is an ongoing issue which the council will have to work on. It's just a matter of working it out.
|
LaVista Vista
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:35:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Well I'm glad I'm not holding my breath. Let me know when you think you've accomplished something noteworthy, i.e. "substance".
Did you read the minutes from the Iceland meetings?
Based on our feedback, CCP has created an internal UI group, which will be reworking on making the whole UI of eve. CCP is working on filling the gap between industrial ships and freighter, based on our feedback. That is just a small part of what we have accomplished.
But I think your expectations are a bit unreasonable. It's the nature of the council, that the work we do won't manifest itself during our term. Chances are it will take a years time, due to the turnaround time inside CCP, from idea till it hits TQ. But that is just how it works, sadly.
|
Scagga Laebetrovo
Ammatar Free Corps
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:41:00 -
[54]
Originally by: LaVista Vista stuff
Taking after the example of a CSM member and bumping this thread.
San Matari Official forums |
Lucy'Lastic
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:45:00 -
[55]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Well I'm glad I'm not holding my breath. Let me know when you think you've accomplished something noteworthy, i.e. "substance".
Did you read the minutes from the Iceland meetings?
Based on our feedback, CCP has created an internal UI group, which will be reworking on making the whole UI of eve. CCP is working on filling the gap between industrial ships and freighter, based on our feedback. That is just a small part of what we have accomplished.
People have complained about the UI for years.There have been hundreds of threads about it.
Were CCP all 'Oh we didn't know that was a problem' until the CSM brought it up?
I find it hard to believe that CCP didn't have some plans to fix it before you guys got to Iceland.
Looks to me like CCP are letting you think you made a difference.
PR stunt.
|
Kaar
Art of War
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:47:00 -
[56]
See, Rells, you kept at it and actually made a decent thread for once.
---
---
|
Gone'Postal
Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:57:00 -
[57]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Well I'm glad I'm not holding my breath. Let me know when you think you've accomplished something noteworthy, i.e. "substance".
Did you read the minutes from the Iceland meetings?
Based on our feedback, CCP has created an internal UI group, which will be reworking on making the whole UI of eve. CCP is working on filling the gap between industrial ships and freighter, based on our feedback. That is just a small part of what we have accomplished.
But I think your expectations are a bit unreasonable. It's the nature of the council, that the work we do won't manifest itself during our term. Chances are it will take a years time, due to the turnaround time inside CCP, from idea till it hits TQ. But that is just how it works, sadly.
Havn't they been saying about the UI for even before the CSM was formed? Industrial gap, is something thats needed but not what would be a high on the need list personaly.
I'm one that dislikes the CSM, and I do consider it a PR stunt over cheating a$$wipe devs and other reasons, however i'm not writing it off 100% yet, but your there to voice idea's to CCP, thats what the forum is for and as of yet, more idea's that effect me as a player have come from the forum and not the CSM so as it stands your useless to myself as a player.
But
It's young and it might effect me later on, but the time delays in Idea->release is just way to high for anything other then whines to be effective on CCP.
-V8I-
|
LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 12:22:00 -
[58]
You know i have read far to many CSM whines and Nano Whines to make my brain spill out my ears. Not one time i have ever heard and argument backed up with HARD Proof to back up your complaints. I think the CSM is doing a ok job at the moment, From what i have seen from the meeting minutes some good ideas about improving the game has been brought to the table. CCP can take the ideas and decide whether to deal with these issues or not. We all knew how much power the CSM would have and that is not much. But i see thats as a good thing. (People these days want to have what they want done in there games, people are selfish and arrogant) to much power would of been disatarous for this game.
Maybe the CSM would of had much more better impact if more of you lazy ass whiners actually got of your ass to vote for them.Apparently only 15% of the community voted, that is poor.
|
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 12:31:00 -
[59]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 02/08/2008 12:31:41
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: kryptteacher contribute to the thread ... state some reasons.
It's a waste of time because the CSM has no real power. It's a waste of time because there's a big pile of heavily biased people as representatives. It's a waste of time because the chairman is overzealous, which has been proven. It's a waste of time because regardless, players should never have the ability to decide on how it's developed. It's a waste of time because the CSM is a hollow shadow of what it was originally intended to be, after the recent unpleasentness. It's a waste of time because more than anything people are whinging about nerfing and boosting ships rather than actual game issues.
There are thousands more reasons, but frankly I can't be arsed to type them all.
Thank you for posting this saving me the trouble of writing.
I am going to put this in my bio when its gets un-nerfed.
Agree with Rells.
Actually...hmmm...what if CSM got dumped and folks like Rells and Verone (who actually understand the definition of "cold, dark, harsh universe (et al)" and how to play a game by those three descriptors) were given proper influence?
You know I'm right .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
|
Tzar'rim
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 12:36:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 02/08/2008 12:42:46 @OP:
The CSM is nothing more than a PR stunt, anyone who didn't see this or still doesn't understand that doesn't really understand how businesses work; They're in it for the money, so the CSM thing in it's current form is deemed to make CCP money on the long run due to PR exposure. It's as simple and clinical as that.
On the changes;
Nano changes were long overdue, it is completely out of whack and gamebreaking, both gamemechanics wise as balance wise. My alt's nanocurse went from 3500m/s to 1800 so while I'm not happy about it, I can surely understand it.
The web/scram changes are tied to the nano changes, as I see it with these combined changes they want to favor ships/pilots/tactics that want to commit to the fight. Even though I'm Minnie myself I can understand that POV and rather like the idea. This way the different tactics an styles per race actually start to play a part in the equation, and while (again) this may not favour my race's ships I still like the idea.
Thing is ofcourse (and I'm guessing this is what you're on about) is that it's all a bit much at the same time and there's no way of predicting what the outcome will be, which ships/tactics become useless and which ones become very good/OP. The thing is that it really doesn't matter, changes happen, people adapt and if things get out of whack again due to those changes I'm sure CCP will look into it in a few months to change it back. Right after we all like the cattle we are changed our training towards thew new FOTM, carrot on a stick tyle.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 .. 14 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |