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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Dr Slaughter
Minmatar Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.02 23:37:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Viper ****zIe
useless piece of shit and elected.
Sounds about right
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.08.03 00:23:00 -
[152]
Remember that Haiku thread that was started about the CSM? This was mine;
People want power not understanding it's use for the wrong reasons
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.03 00:31:00 -
[153]
I do remember most people involved stating that going to Iceland ended up being a pretty good success.
Also, UR DEAD AT FANFEST
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.03 00:45:00 -
[154]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt I do remember most people involved stating that going to Iceland ended up being a pretty good success.
It was, but notice it ain't really the CSM people fighting these threads anymore. Its more the hecklers in the grandstands hurling abuse and getting flustered when the standup routine embarrasses them horribly in front of the girlfriend. Still, better on general forum than cluttering up the Assembly Hall and who knows, some of these people might stand for election next time around and show us how to do it.
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.03 00:52:00 -
[155]
Well yea, but what kind of world would we leave in where Rells didn't whine about pretty much anything he could think of? While at the same time, thinking he is the most relevant thing in Eve.
I don't want to live in that world.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.08.03 01:13:00 -
[156]
Rells for CSM! -------- Ideas for: Mining Ships |
BobMoo22
Radically Awesome People Eaters
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Posted - 2008.08.03 02:19:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Jade Constantine It was, but notice it ain't really the CSM people fighting these threads anymore. Its more the hecklers in the grandstands hurling abuse and getting flustered when the standup routine embarrasses them horribly in front of the girlfriend. Still, better on general forum than cluttering up the Assembly Hall and who knows, some of these people might stand for election next time around and show us how to do it.
You last posted in this thread less than 12 hours ago...
Also, you keep falling back on personal attacks. With every post that you make, I lose more and more respect for you.
I'm ashamed that I voted for you.
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MellaRinn
Gallente Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.03 02:42:00 -
[158]
Edited by: MellaRinn on 03/08/2008 02:42:53 haha! a fine thread to start yur forum browsing evening with. Much lolz @ the professionalism of the CSM's chairperson...
✖Veto Corp. Officer✖ Click the sig 4 my vids |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.03 02:48:00 -
[159]
Are you serious? Because I can't tell if you're a troll, or just serious and really really stupid. So which is it?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.03 03:00:00 -
[160]
Originally by: BobMoo22 You last posted in this thread less than 12 hours ago... I'm ashamed that I voted for you.
If I had a million isk for everyone who claimed they voted for me but are now "extremely disappointed" etc I'd have a tidy income stream. But ironically the people making this claim are rarely ever the people who have taken an interest with assembly hall issues or csm meetings or even the feedback from ccp. Its almost as if they are just making it up to provide some sort of covering fire for their cynical mates who dislike the fact that the csm doesn't "represent them" despite failing to either a) stand or b) vote.
Bizarre.
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Internet Knight
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Posted - 2008.08.03 03:39:00 -
[161]
My poor impression of Jade Constantine has become even poorer. Shame on you for letting this become so personal. And, to be honest, shame on CCP for not moderating out all of the personal attacks in the thread. But hey, at least I can understand CCP -- if they moderate out the personal attacks, they could be seen as combatting slander for or against the CSM; a most definite biased move. Oh well.
Originally by: Jade Constantine If I had a million isk for everyone who claimed they voted for me but are now "extremely disappointed" etc I'd have a tidy income stream. But ironically the people making this claim are rarely ever the people who have taken an interest with assembly hall issues or csm meetings or even the feedback from ccp. Its almost as if they are just making it up to provide some sort of covering fire for their cynical mates who dislike the fact that the csm doesn't "represent them" despite failing to either a) stand or b) vote.
Bizarre.
For what it's worth, I've put in my two cents here and there in some of the various threads in multiple sections of the forums, whether with alts or my main. I find, however, that a lot of the threads in the Assembly Hall are either "duh" threads asking for fixes or features that you'd think should already have priority, some are simply dreams or wishlists, some are whines, and the rest are general crap. Basically, just another forum section. Should I post on every thread there that I support? Will that actually help the thread? I doubt it.
I've made lots of posts in other threads and have received little or no attention for them. Guess what? What goes around comes around.
When an issue is actually looked at by someone that actually matters (devs) and they actually want player input, then I'll give input. Until then, I don't care if someone creates a thread that gives me absolutely everything in the game. I won't support it or criticize it until the devs are interested in the idea.
Hey look, that's exactly what the recent changes to speed are: something the devs are interested in! And guess what? I've given plenty of support and criticism in the devblog feedback thread. And I'd be willing to bet a pretty penny that my comments went ignored again, simply because of the bullshet that other people filled the thread with.
I doubt I'm the only one.
Just FYI - I do believe this thread should be locked, as any remnants of discussion seem to have degenerated into personal attacks.
--- How to resolve Singularity character syncing
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Starlad100
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Posted - 2008.08.03 04:17:00 -
[162]
I'd have to agree on this thread being closed as well. I can't find any logical reason why this should continue.
As for the issue at hand I do thing the CSM's do have a duty to do in this case. I think that there is a need for better communication on what they do for us and for CCP. I haven't seen much on this or anything else like this at all. Granted I stay out of the CSM forum, but that's more of a place for CSM business.
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Incip
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Posted - 2008.08.03 04:43:00 -
[163]
Jade... how come you ignore all the replies on scrapheap about your lil website? (Since you are going to personally attack verone, figured id throw the big one at ya ;) )
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BobMoo22
Radically Awesome People Eaters
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Posted - 2008.08.03 05:51:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: BobMoo22 You last posted in this thread less than 12 hours ago... I'm ashamed that I voted for you.
If I had a million isk for everyone who claimed they voted for me but are now "extremely disappointed" etc I'd have a tidy income stream. But ironically the people making this claim are rarely ever the people who have taken an interest with assembly hall issues or csm meetings or even the feedback from ccp. Its almost as if they are just making it up to provide some sort of covering fire for their cynical mates who dislike the fact that the csm doesn't "represent them" despite failing to either a) stand or b) vote.
Bizarre.
First off, I don't know anyone in this thread. My opinion is my own.
I have voted in an assembly hall issue or 2 and I have read a number of threads in the assembly hall section. My issue isn't with the assembly hall; it's with you.
Your attitude sucks. From what I've read, anyone who disagrees with you must be wrong because you are always right If this isn't what you really feel, I apologize, but that's the impression I've gotten from your posting.
You're supposed to be representing the general eve public. That requires intelligent conversation, something you utterly fail at. Perhaps the reason people say they're disappointed with you is because they are. Shocker, huh?
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Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.03 05:51:00 -
[165]
Originally by: NeoTheo
having said that, your above post is a disguised whine about nerfs, nothing more nothing less, you can't tag "btw i dont fly nano ships" on the end and think that makes the obvious vitrol *******s of your whine go away.
tell you what, did the game work before polycarbs? ohh yes it did.
Tell you what, you go look me up on Battleclinic and look at the ships I fly and then I will accept your apology and admission that you were wrong in your uneducated assessments about me.
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Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.03 06:00:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: RuleoftheBone What exactly is this supposed to mean? Seriously? Are you in some way feeling that threatened by criticism that oblique references such as the above are going to make such criticism cease?
It means that I think you're probably a giant internet poseur who will shrivel up and hide in dark corners rather than come and share "your opinions" face to face in a bar Rule. :~
Basically I don't think you have the guts to do anything of moment. Whether that be standing for an internet election, having a face to face discussion, or anything else that means you have to get out from behind the keyboard and actually persuade somebody of the merit of your opinions.
Belligerent and dangerous statements to make about people you have never met, known or seen. For all you know RuleOfTheBone is built like Mike Tyson. Personally I dont give a damn about your ego, Id say anything to your face that I would say here.
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Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.03 06:02:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Rells Tell you what, you go look me up on Battleclinic and look at the ships I fly
Here is a link to save time.
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Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.03 06:08:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Sergio Ling
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/08/2008 16:47:17
Originally by: Verone Awesome CSM front there Jade, awesome. A player voicing his concern and stating his opinion is a waste of time? Oh, hang on... wasn't the CSM supposed to listen to everyone? I believe you've just failed at the first hurdle, yet again. As for dropping out of the election, it's the best descision I ever made in Eve.
Actually Verone in this thread you are behaving like a "whiner" not a player. I'm happy to listen to players. I really don't care about "whiners" in the least. Your post above is just a lot of hot air and nonsense.
I'm gonna chime in at this point, and have my opinion invalidated because I'm likely seen as one of V's croneys We heve different opinions him and I, and we have some similar opinions. I've not even read the entire thread, but it got to this, and I'm a little shocked.
The leader of an elected body can come to virtual blows with one of the people he allegedly represents because he sees him as a whiner and not a player? Because you don't value the opinion of a person who is stating it, you get to dismiss it and ridicule it? You're simply reinforcing the calls of you being an agenda-driven power-mad spaceship captain.
Wow. What a great post.
If anything the repies from the CSMs have put the OP in bold.
quod erat demonstrandom
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Sorolia
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Posted - 2008.08.03 06:18:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Sorolia on 03/08/2008 06:19:26 oops .. posted with the cyno alt. See below. -- Rells
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Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.03 06:19:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Olli Hokkanen CSM system is good as it is now, agony is mad because they are so hated that no one of them was elected to be one
No one in AGONY that I am aware of thought it was anything other than a joke and a PR stunt. The appalling lack of professionalism on behalf of the CSMs here just proves the original point. Were there to be a point to the CSM work, it would have to be an organization that isnt a popularity contest, and had clout in CCP. This CSM has neither.
The CSMs should be more interested in improving the game than foruming and flaming players of this game with long standing and experience. They should be involved in doing something that has an effect of improving the game as a whole. They should be people actively involved in the game outside of the CSM work. Prominent CEO's and people running major game organizations would be good choices, not the most popular forum *****s.
Originally by: Abrazzar Rells for CSM!
I dont think they would like that. And unless the CSM was going to be 1) useful and 2) have authority, I wouldnt like it either.
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Concorduck
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Posted - 2008.08.03 06:32:00 -
[171]
Flamethrowers, AIM AND SHOOT!
btw, this thread delivers
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.08.03 06:37:00 -
[172]
Epic thread. Really.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.08.03 06:51:00 -
[173]
*strolls in*
What's going on in here, guys?
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.08.03 07:09:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: An Anarchyyt I do remember most people involved stating that going to Iceland ended up being a pretty good success.
It was, but notice it ain't really the CSM people fighting these threads anymore. Its more the hecklers in the grandstands hurling abuse and getting flustered when the standup routine embarrasses them horribly in front of the girlfriend. Still, better on general forum than cluttering up the Assembly Hall and who knows, some of these people might stand for election next time around and show us how to do it.
Dude, you just keep digging, huh?
It's really damn embarrassing that you are our chairman.
NO WONDER that there is so much player apathy
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Sojiuro
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.03 07:26:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: BobMoo22 You last posted in this thread less than 12 hours ago... I'm ashamed that I voted for you.
If I had a million isk for everyone who claimed they voted for me but are now "extremely disappointed" etc I'd have a tidy income stream.
lol you win eve.
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Incip
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Posted - 2008.08.03 07:31:00 -
[176]
LOL
Even the other CSM people think jade is a tool >.>
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.03 07:35:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa *strolls in*
What's going on in here, guys?
Just a bunch of old tough guys being bitter about the CSM being yet another indication that what they perceive as the only proper way to play EVE is only adopted by a very small fraction of actual players... And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
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Victor Vision
Amarr Central Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2008.08.03 07:51:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Victor Vision on 03/08/2008 07:53:09 Some food for thought on problems with the CSM:
1) Lack of CSM interaction with players.
Typically the only CSM interaction with players I have seen is in threads were the CSM is openly attacked, and CSM representatives rush for its protection... like this thread here.
Another place of CSM interaction with the players is in the CSM part of the forums, but this part of the forums is little visited (one of the reasons may be point 3 in this post)
2) CSM functions as a further instance between the players and CCP.
I am currently putting together a stereo system, and I found that the more instances an anologue signal has to go through, the more it gets distorted. Regarding the CSM, this means if players get their views represented by the CSM, there is a risk and even likelyness of the CSM not bringing the issues on the table as originally intended, but distorted from the original discussion.
So while the direct dev contact the CSM can achieve is an advantage, its potential to distort the issues to be discussed must be eliminated or at least minimized.
3) Lack of possibility for players to give mandatory issues of discussion to the CSM (who will then discuss them fairly with CCP)
Currently - as far as I know - The issues brought up by players in the CSM forums need 25% of the votes from the election to become mandatory for discussion in the next CCP/CSM meeting. If my numbers are right the CSM election had about 10000 votes. This means for a player mentioned issue to become mandatory for CSM/CCP discussion it would need 2500 thumbs up votes of approval. Up to now, not a single issue discussed in the CSM forums has met this limit. Here some statictics on thumbs up votes in the Assembly Hall (by topic title and number of votes):
1) All AGAINST The Nano-Nerf - 1226 2) Removal of 30-day and 90-day time cards - 710 3) The use of Evemail as a logging system for corporate events - 488 4) All FOR The Nano-Nerf - 561 5) We want a dev response about a skill queue - 268 6) Remove Jade from Chair - 207 7) POS: Flogging the Dead Horse Be Recommended for Implementation - 197 8) Minmatar capitals are terrible - 169 9) We shouldn't need to post to support an issue - 163 10) Make sucide ganking more difficult - 156
These are the top 10 voted issues in the assembly hall.
In general it seems aparent, that instead of having a hard limit of votes to force a topic for CSM/CCP discussion, it would probably be better to put the top 5 or top 10 issues into the CSM agenda for the next CSM/CCP meet.
The CSM can become a useful institution, but it has a long way to go.
Best regards, VV
EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki |
Eomar
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.03 09:04:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Rells For all you know RuleOfTheBone is built like Mike Tyson.
Having met the man, not quite.
I would feel confident using the phrase "built like a brick shithouse"
In fairness I wouldnt expect him to ever resort to violence, or even think about it for that matter, least of all over a bloody game.
Even provoked with continual insults and childish behaviour id still expect him to act with far more decorum than our CSM's elected leader is apparently capable of.
...in accordance with the prophecy |
Dionisius
Gallente Sincarnate Holding
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Posted - 2008.08.03 09:37:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Dionisius Well well, now this debate is going too nice places...
Before things get more dark and emo here's the most important thing said by one of the players,
Quote: Balance should be up to CCP to decide, not the playerbase.
Ironically, that was me.
I know it was you, its one of the things i believe in 101%.
I work in the IT business for long enough to know what a bad ideia it is to let the players to actually have some power of decision and how an even worst ideia it was to make CSM happen in the way it did.
I meen, lets talk honestly and without any bs, who voted for this? Maybe a handfull of players who actually knew what the CSM ideialized and the rest were the uninformed group or alt/supporter group.
My question is this simple, how can you allow a member to be elected when it is public that his intentions, and those of the alliance he leads, are to cause as much grief and destruction in EvE as possible?
How can you have an election without even trying to inform all the playerbase? Not all read the forums, so what prevented CCP from sending Newsletter, and pop up warnings in the day before the election and the election day itself with some measure of explaining what was the CSM, even a piece of work in the igb would be acceptable as an atempt for CCP to inform a larger chunk of the players.
How can you elect people when you have the rumor of corruption in the election process itself?
Now my question is this, what power does the CSM have to " fight " or discourage corruption within CCP and its processes? Anybody knows something the rest of us don't ?
I meen, i'm not talking about Dev corruption, what about the GM's ? Who checks what they do? In fact, define corruption , sure everyone and their dog will point to BoB, but i'll point my finger into the rest of the alliances that do so and ask this what has been done , by CCP , to actually fight the players that skip , or try to , skip the rules?
Because many many players actually do so, what CCP's expecting me to do, file a petition?
And now i ask , again, given the state of the playerbase and the rest, how is the CSM expected to act and to be trusted? What are they supposed to be doing? Serving has the middle layer between the players and CCP ? ... riiight.
As is said once and i'll say it again, CCP has a very nice game, but they should do the balance themselves ( yes Verone said it also and i agree ) , players have the right to express their feeling towards some changes and provide solutions, the carrier thread was one such example, despite the multiple whines some nice ideias were given in there, the NOS thread also resulted in some nice ideia by a player with CCP retaining, like it should, their power to implement or not new features and patches.
This CSM deal was wrong from the start, CCP should do something about these forums, they could be an excelent means of comunication and debate, not just for alt posting and spamming. _____________________________________
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