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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.08.03 16:09:00 -
[241]
Psh. Jade was voted in by all those people that wanted the CSM to fail anyways. In that respect She/he/it is perfectly representing his electoral base.
The CSM isn't about influence, agendas and power. It is about collecting, refining and sorting of ideas to present CCP. It is about taking notice of fears and issues of the players and to bring them to the attention of CCP in a structured manner. It is about being a focus point between the players and CCP.
Right now it is all about drama and agendas. Useless, pathetic and petty really. Sad. -------- Ideas for: Mining Ships |
Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.03 16:18:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Gone'Postal (thank god, we might get someone not on a personal power trip)
We can only hope.
As soon as I saw Jade would be chairing the CSM, I had a feeling things would go one of two ways :
1) Things would be awesome, there'd be a lot of dedication, massive long 10,000 character posts to explain everything, and someone going to CCP fighting for player views with conviction.
2) Things would be terrible, a complete ego trip, attacking anyone who disagreed with him to retain his position, silencing those who didn't agree with him and generally trying to push his own agenda.
I GENUINELY hoped for the first, now after being attacked on such a personal level as being called a shortarse ****, a ****er, a prat, a moron, an idiot and a fool, I can see that first option never realistic.
Shame really, the CSM could have been something.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.03 16:19:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Nope looks fine to me. I realize you are trying to back peddle wildly now but what you said on this thread stands on the record and just unleashing the veto forum hordes to change the subject won't really cut it.
1-Leave Veto out of it. That group of fine players has nothing to do with this.
2-My comments stand on the record without your intrusion and selective mis-quoting.
3-Unlike you-my message is loud, clear, and free of bullshit, politics, and spin. Readers of this thread can make their own decisions.
Don't like the heat? Tough *****.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.03 16:23:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
**EDIT**With regard to specific ship issues-If CCP desired intelligent player input towards balancing why not form a private consultation group of experienced and proven combat pilots (heck..chuck Chribba in there as well for the non-pew side) and solicit the opinions of them? Who would have a problem with Rells, Verone, Eddz, the dude with the glasses, Calmdown--basically the tourney commentating team with a couple of smart additions--in that sort of a non-public role?
So basically you are for having the CSM election results declared void and having the CSM replaced by a group of your mates to become the unseen eve balancing Illuminati running things from behind the scenes? Are people supposed to vote for this or you just want to forget all that voting stuff and have your decision hold sway over everyone Rule?
Since the CSM dont have any real power and the decisions are firmly in the hands of CCP i'd rather have someone that knows what he is talking about provide the feedback rather than someone that won a popularity contest. For example why do CSM members that have never lived in 0.0 get to vote on 0.0 issues? This should never have been a popularity contest if its supposed to provide valuable input to CCP. I'd rather have CCP asking key players with good understanding of the mechanics involved in a issue rather than someone that won a popularity contest. Ask the pirates about piracy, the ones living in 0.0 about 0.0 and the miners about mining etc. Vote against the nano nerf! |
Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.03 16:30:00 -
[245]
This thread turned awesome after I stopped reading it a day ago.
It's also reminding me of the colorful ways people who knew Jade from the north, and how his current RP and play-style seem to be directly molded from what happened there.
And Jade, you don't get to say 'oh you are a whiner so you are being ignored' in your position. If a player is whining, they're still a player. Harden the **** up and do your CSM duty or resign. If you can't handle listening to upset players, gtfo and let someone step in who can.
Same goes for the others. If you expected nothing but calm and rational things in the CSM you're completely insane.
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.03 16:36:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Verone lol, I wasn't even in the running when the elections came around.... I pulled out VOLUNTARILY, off my own back after realising how utterly pointless the CSM would be.
Try again.
Also, post with your main.
Sorry but when you give up on something, you forfeit the right to ***** about it failing.
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Lady Ghoulia
Eternal-Darkness
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Posted - 2008.08.03 16:46:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Thorradin
Originally by: Verone lol, I wasn't even in the running when the elections came around.... I pulled out VOLUNTARILY, off my own back after realising how utterly pointless the CSM would be.
Try again.
Also, post with your main.
Sorry but when you give up on something, you forfeit the right to ***** about it failing.
not really. he's no longer a candidate, but he's still one of the people represented, so has as much vociferous input allowance as you or I
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.03 16:52:00 -
[248]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 03/08/2008 16:55:39 Oho...what do we have here:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=832729
Tsk tsk.....
**EDIT**You'll need to do a bit better than that. But cheers for underlining your delusional self-importance and attempted suppression of alternate opinions. Power corrupts-and apparently a little gold box labled [CSM]corrupts absolutely.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Sergio Ling
Veto.
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Posted - 2008.08.03 16:58:00 -
[249]
Wow you do twist stuff. that's a nice summary of 'what we done' in the thread Bone linked, but again...wow. you paraphrase people's issues, wrap them up with summative lies, and then shake your head and wield your power.
how long do you have left as chair?
also, that's a nice list of issues, 75% of which have been raised by you and are known issues you love to beat on about. Please just step down. _
BET ISK ON ANYTHING AT ALL |
Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.03 17:01:00 -
[250]
Actually... it's amusing to look deeper and see just how many things are getting to the CSM's table that are proposed by Jade's corp members...
...funny, that.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
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Frug
Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.08.03 17:04:00 -
[251]
You should have run.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.03 17:07:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Frug You should have run.
Don't get me wrong, I love Eve, and CCP is packed to the brim with good people who want nothing but the best for it, and us.
Regardless of that, it's been proven by the playerbase that the CSM is a bad idea and the resources would have been better used elsewhere.
Something like this can never bring the community together.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Dranearian
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.03 17:19:00 -
[253]
I was going to post a link to the meeting agenda today. I saw someone already did it. Jade, I think my post over there is pretty clear and to the point, so I wont re-hash it hear. But I will say I am even more disgusted with your behavior today after reading the posts you have made since I went to bed than I was before bed and making my first post in that thread.
Give up the selective quoting, give up the personal attacks and flames. Man up and take what criticism is given and listen to peoples discussions with an open mind. I don't care if you think person A is a whiner or person B is a flamer. You represent EVERYONE, and if something person A and B agree on is a problem, it is YOUR job to bring it up with the people that matter whether you agree with it or not.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.08.03 17:19:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Frug You should have run.
Don't get me wrong, I love Eve, and CCP is packed to the brim with good people who want nothing but the best for it, and us.
Regardless of that, it's been proven by the playerbase that the CSM is a bad idea and the resources would have been better used elsewhere.
Something like this can never bring the community together.
Not that I'm disagreeing with you as a whole Verone but what resources? I'd hardly think a few thousand dollars to fly them to Iceland and a few megabits of internets to spam the forums with will make any difference to the game.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2008.08.03 17:21:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Jita Jolene
Originally by: Gnulpie
Uhm, if only 10% of the people are voting you can hardly talk about democratic elements.
It just means that 90% of Eve doesn't backup the CSM!!
Such flawless logic, rich with humor. Have you ever considered stand-up?
Regardless of your bitter whine, the CSM do have just that, the legitimate role of representing the players. Hey, and guess what? Jade received the most votes and is the chairman. Any other 'solution' undermines a reasonably fair democratic election.
As I said, if 90% of a population (eve or not, real world applies also) doesn't backup some choice, then the 10% cannot say that they are legitmiated by the MAJORITY of the players. They are not.
You can argue and call me bitter and attack me personally all the way you want, this doesn't change a bit of the above facts.
And sorry to say, but the behaviour of Jade here in that thread shed a really bad light on that person. I didn't know Jade before and I didn't care, but this here, that is absurd comming from a person who should care about the whole playerbase!
And if players think that there is a problem with the CSM it should be adressed in a clam manner and the CSM should try to work out why people are thinking that.
Either there is a real problem - then this problem needs to be solved.
Or there is only a flawed perception - then the CSM should work on getting better percepted.
But in any case, attacking people who point out that they think some things are wrong is just absolutely the wrong way for the CSM to handle concerns of players.
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Red Thunder
Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.08.03 17:23:00 -
[256]
i agree with u rells....there are too many noobs on this forum, and ccp actually listens to them....
Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines |
Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.03 17:30:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Zeba Not that I'm disagreeing with you as a whole Verone but what resources? I'd hardly think a few thousand dollars to fly them to Iceland and a few megabits of internets to spam the forums with will make any difference to the game.
The three days or so of developer time they spend putting a number of developers in a room and taking them away from their regular posts? All the organisational time that it takes to sort out flying them halfway across the world in some cases? Setting up the meetings?
I'm not talking literal "resources" more along the lines of the amount of time taken to actually pull the whole thing off, when it's clearly not going anywhere and just causing massive forum arguments because of the chair's immense ego trip.
In my opinion, even putting that extra few thousand dollars into server hardware, or towards this new super computer is money better spent than putting together the CSM.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Frug
Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.08.03 17:34:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Verone
The three days or so of developer time they spend putting a number of developers in a room and taking them away from their regular posts? All the organisational time that it takes to sort out flying them halfway across the world in some cases? Setting up the meetings?
I'm not talking literal "resources" more along the lines of the amount of time taken to actually pull the whole thing off, when it's clearly not going anywhere and just causing massive forum arguments because of the chair's immense ego trip.
Ironically I think this whole CSM thing would be greatly assisted by more CCP influence and guidance.
Part of the problem here is that the position of the CSM and members isn't clearly defined (Why the hell are they just taking votes on random balance issues? What is that crap? Can you say conflict of interest? If you like the new FOTM vote yes for this proposal? Please.) and that too many issues are just getting tossed out there.
I don't know that bringing this community together is really necessary. I don't believe the CSM needs any more influence than it currently has either. It is a means of player communication and oversight by non-employees, not whatever the hell people are making it out to be.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.03 17:39:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Frug Ironically I think this whole CSM thing would be greatly assisted by more CCP influence and guidance.
Part of the problem here is that the position of the CSM and members isn't clearly defined (Why the hell are they just taking votes on random balance issues? What is that crap? Can you say conflict of interest? If you like the new FOTM vote yes for this proposal? Please.) and that too many issues are just getting tossed out there.
I don't know that bringing this community together is really necessary. I don't believe the CSM needs any more influence than it currently has either. It is a means of player communication and oversight by non-employees, not whatever the hell people are making it out to be.
While I still see the CSM as a failure so far, I do agree that if it was to continue it needs a fresh rethink and a lot more influence and guidance from CCP.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Veldya
Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.08.03 17:43:00 -
[260]
CSMs are a political position and like all politicians they are ****ing useless.
Kiss babies, get kickbacks, get nothing done or achieve anything. They can go from CSM to running a major country.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.08.03 17:45:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Zeba Not that I'm disagreeing with you as a whole Verone but what resources? I'd hardly think a few thousand dollars to fly them to Iceland and a few megabits of internets to spam the forums with will make any difference to the game.
The three days or so of developer time they spend putting a number of developers in a room and taking them away from their regular posts? All the organisational time that it takes to sort out flying them halfway across the world in some cases? Setting up the meetings?
I'm not talking literal "resources" more along the lines of the amount of time taken to actually pull the whole thing off, when it's clearly not going anywhere and just causing massive forum arguments because of the chair's immense ego trip.
In my opinion, even putting that extra few thousand dollars into server hardware, or towards this new super computer is money better spent than putting together the CSM.
KK. Understood.
Oh.. as for my opinion of the CSM initiative? I think a certain scene from an awesome movie should sum it up. Jade Constantine does not carry water!!
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Gimpslayer
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Posted - 2008.08.03 18:20:00 -
[262]
Agree w/ OP.
Dear CSM, you suck it.
CSM is a self righteous entity. Poor execution by CCP on just how CSM has influence, how they quote-unquote represent the community, and an overall bone-throw by CCP to the player base w/o much foreplanning.
Newly Introduced CSM missions:
Gayness Abounds Gayness Extravaganza The Gaycade
now, I know you terd burgerlers insist on suggestions, so I suggest we get reed of placebo representation thru csm.
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Nevada Tan
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Posted - 2008.08.03 18:28:00 -
[263]
Hey Jade, as you've just had your pet "Remake 0.0 in Star Fraction's image" proposal shot down by the CSM before CCP even got to take a look at it, this means you can quit now because you're clearly not going to get your way. Have you considered moving to Shadowbane or PotBS or something? Maybe you'll have better luck there.
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I have done a bad thing. |
Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.03 19:12:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Frug give it another few months, another election, and go from there.
And run this time.
Oh, I think another election and a couple of new faces won't do the CSM any harm at all.
I'll be interested to see if things actually pick up.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.03 19:13:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Nevada Tan Hey Jade, as you've just had your pet "Remake 0.0 in Star Fraction's image" proposal shot down by the CSM before CCP even got to take a look at it, this means you can quit now because you're clearly not going to get your way. Have you considered moving to Shadowbane or PotBS or something? Maybe you'll have better luck there.
I think I'll avoid commentating since the meeting is still going on. Might be the professional thing to do no?
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.08.03 19:15:00 -
[266]
And yet you went ahead and commented anyway. Slick.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.03 19:16:00 -
[267]
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.08.03 19:18:00 -
[268]
I do think the CSM process can work with a responsible peacemaker as chair but it's going to need more control by a CCP liason to produce any viable results. A straight-up election does not guarantee a responsible chair but rather favours whoever is the most popular within the voting player group. That means the loudest and most controvertial people are more likely to get seats and more likely to be chair. I was very surprised that the CSM was more or less left on its own to work out how it was meant to operate. It seems that CCP decided to allocate barely any resources to the project, possibly as an experiment, and in the process have all but doomed the project.
I've said this a number of times but it's still ringing true - Given the opportunity to change any successful MMO, 95% of players would completely ruin the game. Ask a hundred players what they would change about EVE or WoW or Everquest and you'll get almost a hundred terrible answers. It then follows that 95% of the conclusive results from the CSM will probably not get through CCP's own internal QA and testing without being scrapped. The CSM was supposed to distill public opinion and present the remaining 5% of good ideas to CCP. Without a capable, impartial chair and a lot more control and direction from CCP on conducting the CSM, there's no guarantee of that.
My only hope now is that the CSM survives its current chair and proves its worth under the next leadership.
Pillowsoft - Join the Pillowsoft Gallente Militia, get free ships and support. |
Nevada Tan
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Posted - 2008.08.03 19:21:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Jade Constantine I think I'll avoid commentating since the meeting is still going on. Might be the professional thing to do no?
If the meeting was still going on, shouldn't you have been chairing it instead of defending your e-honor in this thread?
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I have done a bad thing. |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.08.03 19:22:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Jade Constantine I think I'll avoid commentating since the meeting is still going on. Might be the professional thing to do no?
By adding that word you transform your non-comment into a veiled insult by implying that he is unproffesional. As I said.. Slick.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
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