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CCP: Please Disband the CSM

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Author	Topic
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:51:00 - [331] I'd say I predicted this outcome on the effectiveness and proffesionality of the CSM long before any votes were ever cast but I'll just pull a Jade and say this post is a non-comment. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Miz Cenuij	Posted - 2008.08.05 06:34:00 - [332] CSM is a joke run by a selfish few seeking to boost thief own interests. The leaked thread showed them for the joke they are. Disband it. "Men are going to die... and i'm going to kill them"
Veldya Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.08.05 06:51:00 - [333] Leave them in, CSM is CCP's biggest ****take on the EVE community. If anything, they should just move the election to be annually on April 1st.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.08.05 08:32:00 - [334] Originally by: Miz Cenuij The leaked thread showed them for the joke they are. Linkage please. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Gone'Postal Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.08.05 08:36:00 - [335] Edited by: Gone''Postal on 05/08/2008 08:37:27 Originally by: RuleoftheBone Originally by: Miz Cenuij The leaked thread showed them for the joke they are. Linkage please. Linkage -V8I-
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.08.05 08:44:00 - [336] Originally by: Gone'Postal Edited by: Gone''Postal on 05/08/2008 08:37:27 Originally by: RuleoftheBone Originally by: Miz Cenuij The leaked thread showed them for the joke they are. Linkage please. Linkage ty. I lol'd. And who is Hardin? Never mind...not important. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2008.08.05 08:51:00 - [337] I seriously doubt CCP care much for the anti csm smear campaign.
Nuyan Zahedi Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.05 08:59:00 - [338] Why exactly did this topic actually get deleted? -- My blog
Lyvv Amarr Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.08.05 09:38:00 - [339] Why would we need a CSM? Seriously? What interests of the general population do they actually represent, or better, yet, which percentage of the game population do they represent? They represent the community which participates in these forums, which sadly, 80% of it is little kids whining about getting wtfpwned by a nano, or AFK Cloakers. They represent the griefers, the the kids riding the short-bus to school. What most of the people here, imo, dont realize is that the "serious" eve-players, dont really hang out on these shit-boards. Unless they are at work and cant get into Eve, they got other things to take care of. Planning POSs, skills, upcoming ops or playing with EFT to put a new ship together...or...they come here looking for good information on a specific topic and only find these shit-stains here in digital form from ****s. CSMs add to that. Other things most annoying about this Toys-R-Us place we call a board here are: 1) Problems (REAL PROBLEMS) are being posted, then they get flamed by some ing kid without a credit card. 2) We have to read through hundreds of whine-posts to get some useful information out of this "information portal". 3) CCP regards these influx of spam threads from angry little basturds concerning nano, cloaking, NOSing and what not and rolls out a freaking patch to "fix" things. Ban their little accounts from posting on this board, for like 3 months. That fixes 65% of the problems causing nerfs. Fix your game mechanics, that fixes another 20% of the problems. Roll out some POLLS upon login and force people to fill a quick YES and NO along with a 1000 char line if they want to add some text to the dev team - and then assess the outcome of those, only then will you reach 100% of the population. FIX freaking issues being addressed in those polls after TESTING them yourselves. We dont have time to run around Sissi doing your work boys. We seriously DONT want to know 3 weeks in advance how sad and bad your implementation really is going to and how it will affect 1000s of serious players. It isnt easy "listening" to the community and you certainly will not ever achieve a 100% customer satisfaction, but its starting to ** me off, when CCP DEV, GMs or these muppets called CSM put weight to posts left my little kiddos in these whine-threads who have never seen a 300 man fleet trying to take over a system or who, on a constant basis, operate in small gangs. Get a grip guys!
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 09:53:00 - [340] Originally by: Nuyan Zahedi Why exactly did this topic actually get deleted? I bet that's the question on a lot of people's lips. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<

Dekiri Useless Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.05 09:59:00 - [341] Amazing.. there i dont play for 1 year and i have to agree with rells on my first day back.. oh god ... I seriously don't like rells and have absolutly no respect for him as a person or his corp... its even worse then that, i really dislike that guy.. But he is dead right. The whole CSM show is joke and was it from the beginning. And CCP should not listen to much to the community either. great thread btw! My dad can beat up your dad!
Shaemell Buttleson Celestial Apocalypse The Requiem	Posted - 2008.08.05 10:06:00 - [342] Originally by: Sirial Soulfly I seriously doubt CCP care much for the anti csm smear campaign. I don't know about that really. The more ppl ***ing about the CSM means they have less time to *** and moan at/to CCP so from that point POV I reckon they did a clever thing!
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.08.05 10:14:00 - [343] Originally by: Nuyan Zahedi Why exactly did this topic actually get deleted? It doesn't really add anything beyond illustrating various points made in this thread. I know I could care less what folks say in chat channels beyond "warp to me to kill xxxx" . This particular thread is: 1-Ditch the CSM 2-Reasons for and alternate suggestions to the above. 3-Reasons against #1 and attempted squashing, distortion, and general political bullshit spouted by the current chairperson. Not to mention the expressed desire of said chairperson to meet various individuals IRL for unspecified reasons. Good enough summary thus far? "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Eomar Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 10:36:00 - [344] Originally by: Lyvv Why would we need a CSM? Seriously? As a liason between the playerbase general, someone to provide an intelligent, balanced view of the players opinions hopes and requirements to CCP, and to provide similar from CCP to the players Also as an independant and accountable (to the players) oversight committee on issues regarding trust and fairplay. Originally by: Lyvv What interests of the general population do they actually represent, or better, yet, which percentage of the game population do they represent? All of the community, whether you voeted or not, you were given the option, fair warning and equal oppurtunity. Originally by: Lyvv They represent the community which participates in these forums which, sadly enough, 80% of it are little kids whining about getting wtfpwned by a nano, or AFK Cloakers. They represent the griefers, the the kids riding the short-bus to school. granted. Originally by: Lyvv What most of the people here, imo, dont realize is that the "serious" eve-players, dont really hang out on these trash-boards. *****s, a lot of serious players do hang out here, they dont neccesarily post all the time, but they do watch. Originally by:** Lyvv 1) Problems (REAL PROBLEMS) are being posted, then they get flamed by some muppet. true, but then what constitutes a real problem to some constitutes a waste of time to others. the credit card thing is complete shite, totally irrelavent, and ive flown with children with more smarts than most on this board. Originally by: Lyvv 2) We have to read through hundreds of whine-posts to get some useful information out of this "information portal". no argument here Originally by: Lyvv 3) CCP regards these influx of spam threads from angry little basturds concerning nano, cloaking, NOSing and what not and rolls out a freaking patch to "fix" things. seems hopeful theyd patch anyway. sadly the most vocal group tend to make thier point heard loudest. Originally by: Lyvv Roll out some POLLS upon login and force people to fill a quick YES and NO along with a 1000 char line if they want to add some text to the dev team - and then assess the outcome of those, only then will you reach 100% of the population. WORST idea yet. WTF do i want 50000 miners and industrialists voting on pvp balance issues? skewed vote anyone? Originally by: Lyvv FIX freaking issues being addressed in those polls after TESTING them yourselves. We dont have time to run around Sissi doing your work boys. We seriously DONT want to know 3 weeks in advance how sad and bad your implementation really is going to and how it will affect 1000s of serious players. internal testing will never reveal more than whether the patch itself is functional. the ONLY way to tset changes is large scale PLAYER testing, if you think otherwise youre **ing smoking something. Originally by:** Lyvv It isnt easy "listening" to the community and you certainly will not ever achieve a 100% customer satisfaction, but its starting to ** me off, when CCP DEV, GMs or these muppets called CSM put weight to posts left my little kiddos in these whine-threads who have never seen a 300 man fleet trying to take over a system or who, on a constant basis, operate in small gangs. correct, it ISNT easy listening, but who gives you the right to decide that your opinion is worth more than others? A lot of people are *ed at jade, and the CSM in general, becaused they were elected to represent the general view and real* issues and instead are representing what appears to be a very very narrow view, ie thier own. whether thats true or not remains to be seen however jades own comments in this and other threads only serve to support that, hence this shitstorm. Originally by: Lyvv Get a grip guys! agreed, but that applies to EVERYONE ...in accordance with the prophecy
Wilma JugsJiggle	Posted - 2008.08.05 11:04:00 - [345] I cba reading this thread.
Dionisius Gallente Sincarnate Holding	Posted - 2008.08.05 11:32:00 - [346] People... this is a game, you folks are " fighting " over a game. _____________________________________
Krychton Vorace. Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.08.05 13:11:00 - [347] To bad they deleted this topic. Had a feeling they would though. I'm sure most people saw it anyway. \|Now Recruiting\|
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.08.05 13:52:00 - [348] I too, wonder why that thread was removed.
Malla Mai Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.05 14:13:00 - [349] Originally by: Dionisius People... this is a game, you folks are " fighting " over a game. People fight for and over things they care about. It isn't always a good thing, but at least it is perfectly human. When people have played this game for years, it is pretty clear that they care about it (they may hate it at times, but nevertheless it matters to them). Most of the things we humans fight over are totally unimportant on the grand scale of things, anyway. Want to see people fighting over REALLY stupid things? Try getting married. That's just my own personal opinion, though. Anybody who feels EVE is only a game and thus totally unimportant, feel free to donate all your stuff and ISK to me.
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.08.05 14:25:00 - [350] Originally by: LaVista Vista I too, wonder why that thread was removed. Because it was mainly a bunch of primadonnas holding forth about how badly their knickers were twisted, I would guess. Probably seemed like Big Important Stuff(tm) to the involved parties, but as somebody who doesn't know anybody from that scene I'm here to tell you: nobody gives a **. I've seen this nonsense so many times before it's not even funny anymore. Inevitably, when some group or organization decides to "promote" from within you get people with minimal leadership experience who now putatively have some kind of "authority" over their heretofore peers; the transition in the relationship is never simple and you always wind up with one or two people who make gaffes and one or two other people who will scream "ZOMG POWERTRIP!!!11" at every opportunity no matter how slight. It's behavior you'd hope not to see from grown- ups, but sadly it never goes away. The dumb part of it is that the position in question doesn't even have to carry any real power with it (like for example the CSM), it just has to have the appearance of some kind of authority or prestige and voilß: hissy fits abound. Somebody will always get her precious little *** hurt over it. This shit is predictable as grass growing and not even half as interesting. ___________________________________________

Lyvv Amarr Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.08.05 14:26:00 - [351] Edited by: Lyvv on 05/08/2008 14:27:37 Originally by: Lyvv It isnt easy "listening" to the community and you certainly will not ever achieve a 100% customer satisfaction, but its starting to ** me off, when CCP DEV, GMs or these muppets called CSM put weight to posts left my little kiddos in these whine-threads who have never seen a 300 man fleet trying to take over a system or who, on a constant basis, operate in small gangs. Originally by:** Spazomar correct, it ISNT easy listening, but who gives you the right to decide that your opinion is worth more than others? LOL you are one of those r3tards I talked about mate. You take my entire post apart, clutter it with your little thoughts, press your opinion on things, and then at the very end, get off by writing "but who gives you the right to decide that your opinion is worth more than others?" Just go die please. Exaclt not whats needed here. The flaming, the bashing, the nitpicking through posts - ie your are a prime example. ****ing troll.
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.08.05 14:42:00 - [352] Originally by: Rells The creation of the CSM was supposed to be an interface point for interracting with the players, determining the player priorities and providing oversight of changes in the game. In reality it is a PR stunt, free trip to Iceland and an ego fluff for the members that were "elected" in a dubious process. As a player I don't see the value in the committee and don't want them feigning to speak for me. The fact that they seem to have 0 influence leads to the facade and thus the uselessness of the committee. If the CSM has 0 influence then they can't do any harm, so calling for it to be disbanded is a bit pointless isn't it? Perhaps on a more postive and constructive note we should be looking at improving the usefulness of the CSM, remembering that whilst it is a method of the community and players interacting with CCP, it's not the only method (e.g the forums, fanfest). C. Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
Tzar'rim Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.05 14:50:00 - [353] Edited by: Tzar''rim on 05/08/2008 14:50:37 Perhaps the best way to treat this is to use the PR stunt against them, have it 'leaked' to several gaming sites and whatver more you can find that the whole CSM thing CCP envisioned has backfired on them and that a number of the CSM members are misusing the whole idea. Add to that the reluctancy of CCP to do anything about it while the EVE players themselves are outraged. Pressure might be the surest way of success. --- edit --- I just read that chatlog... WTF?
Eomar Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 14:56:00 - [354] Originally by: Lyvv Edited by: Lyvv on 05/08/2008 14:27:37 Originally by: Lyvv It isnt easy "listening" to the community and you certainly will not ever achieve a 100% customer satisfaction, but its starting to ** me off, when CCP DEV, GMs or these muppets called CSM put weight to posts left my little kiddos in these whine-threads who have never seen a 300 man fleet trying to take over a system or who, on a constant basis, operate in small gangs. Originally by:** Spazomar correct, it ISNT easy listening, but who gives you the right to decide that your opinion is worth more than others? LOL you are one of those r3tards I talked about mate. You take my entire post apart, clutter it with your little thoughts, press your opinion on things, and then at the very end, get off by writing "but who gives you the right to decide that your opinion is worth more than others?" Just go die please. Exaclt not whats needed here. The flaming, the bashing, the nitpicking through posts - ie your are a prime example. **ing troll. Right, im not supposed to respond to this but the hell with it, im not gonna lie down and take that kind of shit without a response. What I did was take all your points and respond to them, you might not agree with my thoughts. But the whole point of reasoned discussion is that you talk about stuff rather than stick your fingers in your ears and shout "lalala im not listening" Who gives you the right to decide your opinion is worth more than others? noone. EVERYONE has an equal and valid right to voice thier opinions. whether those opinions are agreed with or not is irrelevant, as long as those opinions are voiced in a reasonable and fair manner. See what youve just done there is flaming. THAT is what destroys the board. People unable to come up with a reasoned argument resort to personal attacks and insults or the all too common "** you, I dont care about your opinion, but you should care about mine" Your post made a lot of points, I disagreed with quite a few, I said so. this makes ME a troll? My opinion is worth no more than anyone elses, but, my opinion is worth no less than anyone elses. Should I assume from your post you disagree with my points? or should I assume you were simply horrified at the thought that someone had the gall to disagree with you and that noone is allowed to question your holy writ? Im willing to give anyone a fair chance, some posters blew that chance a while ago, others are borderline, there are not many posters at all on these boards who I truly feel enter into reasoned debates, and those that do tend to be valued regardless of whether I agree with them or not... I had hopes you would have been in that group. Maybe im wrong, maybe its me thats being a jerk, but i truly dont think so, if you can explain why in a way that doesnt start with mouth foaming then please feel free, im open to criticism. same applies to anyone. ...in accordance with the prophecy
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.08.05 14:57:00 - [355] Originally by: Tzar'rim Edited by: Tzar''rim on 05/08/2008 14:50:37 Perhaps the best way to treat this is to use the PR stunt against them, have it 'leaked' to several gaming sites and whatver more you can find that the whole CSM thing CCP envisioned has backfired on them and that a number of the CSM members are misusing the whole idea. Add to that the reluctancy of CCP to do anything about it while the EVE players themselves are outraged. Pressure might be the surest way of success. --- edit --- I just read that chatlog... WTF? Don't attribute Jade's behavior to the CSM as a whole.
Wimwyn	Posted - 2008.08.05 15:01:00 - [356] Originally by: LaVista Vista Don't attribute Jade's behavior to the CSM as a whole. So you going to take some collective responsibility or action?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.05 15:08:00 - [357] I supported the thread about adding instruments to ambulation (I think it'd be a nice little touch), but reading the chatlog posted above, when the CSM went from voting themselves into non-action on what is probably the most important and controversial issue for the EVE playerbase in recent time, to calmly discussing instruments just a second later made me LOL hard. Also, people stating they should hold off testing and commenting on the changes until they are live on TQ, ignoring the month long testing period CCP has given the players - that's priceless. On the forums such idiocy would have been flamed into oblivion - I guess this is what 'constructive' feedback looks like. I like the idea of the CSM, and I hope it continues, but the best thing is probably to ignore its existence until the next election. - DesuSigs
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.05 15:16:00 - [358] Edited by: Esmenet on 05/08/2008 15:17:39 Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Tzar'rim Edited by: Tzar''rim on 05/08/2008 14:50:37 Perhaps the best way to treat this is to use the PR stunt against them, have it 'leaked' to several gaming sites and whatver more you can find that the whole CSM thing CCP envisioned has backfired on them and that a number of the CSM members are misusing the whole idea. Add to that the reluctancy of CCP to do anything about it while the EVE players themselves are outraged. Pressure might be the surest way of success. --- edit --- I just read that chatlog... WTF? Don't attribute Jade's behavior to the CSM as a whole. Since he is not only the most vocal of the CSM members but also the chairman its hard not to associate him with it. If he cares about CSM at all he should consider stepping down as all he does is strenghten the view of the CSM as a complete and utter joke with every post he makes. Or perhaps the rest of the CSM members can act as babysitters for him for the rest of their terms. I dont envy your job either way. Vote against the nano nerf!
Krychton Vorace. Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.08.05 15:19:00 - [359] Edited by: Krychton on 05/08/2008 15:21:16 Originally by: Wimwyn Originally by: LaVista Vista Don't attribute Jade's behavior to the CSM as a whole. So you going to take some collective responsibility or action? Him going after some other CSM would most likely accomplish nothing, if anything it would only further degrade the CSM reputation, or whats left of it. A good example would be Jade and Darius. They take shots at each other whenever they can, it accomplishes nothing, and they both look like fools doing it. Neither would ever step down anyway. \|Now Recruiting\|
Tzar'rim Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.05 15:25:00 - [360] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Tzar'rim Edited by: Tzar''rim on 05/08/2008 14:50:37 Perhaps the best way to treat this is to use the PR stunt against them, have it 'leaked' to several gaming sites and whatver more you can find that the whole CSM thing CCP envisioned has backfired on them and that a number of the CSM members are misusing the whole idea. Add to that the reluctancy of CCP to do anything about it while the EVE players themselves are outraged. Pressure might be the surest way of success. --- edit --- I just read that chatlog... WTF? Don't attribute Jade's behavior to the CSM as a whole. I didn't Vista: Quote: a number of the CSM members are misusing the whole idea The consequence is that the CSM as an entity failed, not because all members failed.

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