Originally by: Suboran

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vagabonds arent immune to missiles, or good tracking turrets.

problem wth the vagabond is, it needs to be fast to survive, it has no tank or tanking ability and comparibly low damage to other hac types.

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Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn

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Originally by: Suboran

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vagabonds arent immune to missiles, or good tracking turrets.

problem wth the vagabond is, it needs to be fast to survive, it has no tank or tanking ability and comparibly low damage to other hac types.

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Nonsense. Vagabond can have MUCH better shield tank than caldari HACs while still pulling out better dps at least on optimal range, getting there should not be problem because of having much better speed. Funny though.

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Originally by: fivedollar*****

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also we need to help the people using sensor boosters and webs on med slots

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Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab

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Originally by: fivedollar*****

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also we need to help the people using sensor boosters and webs on med slots

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Yes please, help us Caldari!

And the Astarte ends up 'useless'... Well, do you know what the Nighthawk is?

A tank. Nothing more, nothing less. So if you want to give your opponents a though target for target-practice, that's the ship to bring.

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Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab

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Originally by: fivedollar*****

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also we need to help the people using sensor boosters and webs on med slots

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Yes please, help us Caldari!

And the Astarte ends up 'useless'... Well, do you know what the Nighthawk is?

A tank. Nothing more, nothing less. So if you want to give your opponents a though target for target-practice, that's the ship to bring.

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Originally by: Euriti

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You seem to be forgetting that the vagabond was MADE for speedtanking, made for what it does on TQ and now you compare it to the caldari HACs that are made for SNIPING (look at the bonuses ) While the vagabond obviously is meant for speedtanking out of web range (Speed bonus, falloff bonus).

Seriously, stop being a douche and see the light.

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Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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I fly the Rapier/Huginn/Vaga (and nano Ishtar, nano Zealot, Nano Sac etc.) and I'm not really finding the Min cruisers nerfed.

The Minnies cry foul like *THEIR* ships were nerfed and no one elses were touched. Totally not the case. All the ships are slower, and the Minmatar ships, while slower, have an even wider gap between them and the slower ships. Percentage wise, they're faster than ever when compared to other ships of like class.

And the Rapiers? Everyone's web is nerfed. Not just the Rapiers. I'll say it again: in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

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Originally by: Jim Hazard

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Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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I fly the Rapier/Huginn/Vaga (and nano Ishtar, nano Zealot, Nano Sac etc.) and I'm not really finding the Min cruisers nerfed.

The Minnies cry foul like *THEIR* ships were nerfed and no one elses were touched. Totally not the case. All the ships are slower, and the Minmatar ships, while slower, have an even wider gap between them and the slower ships. Percentage wise, they're faster than ever when compared to other ships of like class.

And the Rapiers? Everyone's web is nerfed. Not just the Rapiers. I'll say it again: in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

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That is exactly the point. All the ppl whining about minmatar being disadvantaged now are just ppl who do not look at the whole picture and just cry because they might actually risk something while PvPing.

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Originally by: Kagura Nikon

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Originally by: Jim Hazard

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Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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I fly the Rapier/Huginn/Vaga (and nano Ishtar, nano Zealot, Nano Sac etc.) and I'm not really finding the Min cruisers nerfed.

The Minnies cry foul like *THEIR* ships were nerfed and no one elses were touched. Totally not the case. All the ships are slower, and the Minmatar ships, while slower, have an even wider gap between them and the slower ships. Percentage wise, they're faster than ever when compared to other ships of like class.

And the Rapiers? Everyone's web is nerfed. Not just the Rapiers. I'll say it again: in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

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That is exactly the point. All the ppl whining about minmatar being disadvantaged now are just ppl who do not look at the whole picture and just cry because they might actually risk something while PvPing.

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Single sentence for you:

Raven more agile than tempest.....

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Originally by: Jim Hazard

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Edited by: Jim Hazard on 11/08/2008 16:46:02

Originally by: Kagura Nikon

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Originally by: Jim Hazard

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Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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I fly the Rapier/Huginn/Vaga (and nano Ishtar, nano Zealot, Nano Sac etc.) and I'm not really finding the Min cruisers nerfed.

The Minnies cry foul like *THEIR* ships were nerfed and no one elses were touched. Totally not the case. All the ships are slower, and the Minmatar ships, while slower, have an even wider gap between them and the slower ships. Percentage wise, they're faster than ever when compared to other ships of like class.

And the Rapiers? Everyone's web is nerfed. Not just the Rapiers. I'll say it again: in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

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That is exactly the point. All the ppl whining about minmatar being disadvantaged now are just ppl who do not look at the whole picture and just cry because they might actually risk something while PvPing.

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Single sentence for you:

Raven more agile than tempest.....

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Raven sitting at 200km needs like 20-25 seconds till the 1st missile hits. By that time the target in most cases is either dead or warped away. So Boost ravens with cruise missiles they are definetly disadvantaged!

And since almost all ships will be slower after the patch it does not matter if you need a little bit longer to warp out as you have more time to do so...

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Originally by: Orange Faeces

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Originally by: Euriti

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You seem to be forgetting that the vagabond was MADE for speedtanking, made for what it does on TQ and now you compare it to the caldari HACs that are made for SNIPING (look at the bonuses ) While the vagabond obviously is meant for speedtanking out of web range (Speed bonus, falloff bonus).

Seriously, stop being a douche and see the light.

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Okay.

And what is the deimos designed for? It has a falloff bonus, damage bonus and a cap bonus for MWD. This adds up to ... what exactly?

I know your answer. You'd say its a flying coffin. But of course, you'd never fly one, right?

Lets see if we can figure this out. MWD bonus so that we can sustain our MWD and guns... and a tank? no. not enough cap rech. for that. Falloff bonus... hmm... so I'm supposed to MWD around pwning stuff with Null... does that work? no. it doesn't. Please help.

Thank you.

OF

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Originally by: Jim Hazard

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Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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Originally by: Kagura Nikon

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You don't get it you you fakign to be stupid? Minmatar are supposed to be the most agile. And caldari are supposed to be the less agile. Now its inverted. Minmatar has lowest dps lowest tank and now lowest maneuverability? Sine when in hell that is balance?

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Originally by: Jim Hazard

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Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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I fly the Rapier/Huginn/Vaga (and nano Ishtar, nano Zealot, Nano Sac etc.) and I'm not really finding the Min cruisers nerfed.

The Minnies cry foul like *THEIR* ships were nerfed and no one elses were touched. Totally not the case. All the ships are slower, and the Minmatar ships, while slower, have an even wider gap between them and the slower ships. Percentage wise, they're faster than ever when compared to other ships of like class.

And the Rapiers? Everyone's web is nerfed. Not just the Rapiers. I'll say it again: in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

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That is exactly the point. All the ppl whining about minmatar being disadvantaged now are just ppl who do not look at the whole picture and just cry because they might actually risk something while PvPing.

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Originally by: Stab Wounds

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Edited by: Stab Wounds on 11/08/2008 21:58:02
vega needs a nerf and probably even more than what is on sisi. why would anyon choose a cerbis and eagel over a vegabond ever?

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Originally by: Stab Wounds

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Edited by: Stab Wounds on 11/08/2008 21:58:02
vega needs a nerf and probably even more than what is on sisi. why would anyon choose a cerbis and eagel over a vegabond ever?

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Originally by: carleyjones

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Originally by: Stab Wounds

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Edited by: Stab Wounds on 11/08/2008 21:58:02
vega needs a nerf and probably even more than what is on sisi. why would anyon choose a cerbis and eagel over a vegabond ever?

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Sniping is just one example that springs to mind. They are 3 different ships with different roles and advantages.

If you nerf the vaga anymore than what is already on sisi you're left with a sh**y version of the stabber. Perhaps if you could actually, for once, provide a valid reason with evidence for why the vaga should be nerfed more than any other nano ship then please share. Because spewing the same crap about in every thread and having little to no substance to your arguements is getting tiresome.

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Originally by: Bronson Hughes

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Some thoughts on the new Vaga, some of them out of the box. These are not hard-and-fast things, just some ideas to try/consider.

1. I don't think that the MWD re-activation delay is really going to be a big deal for the Vaga. When you pulsed your MWD it was either to save on cap or slow down enough to hit something with your turrets. If you're only doing these things for 10 seconds at a time, then you'll either run out of cap or not hit anything anyways. (If I'm mistaken and the reactivation delay is longer than 10 seconds, then yes it could be an issue)

2. The Vaga is meant to be a fast ship, yes, but fast does not necessarily mean speed-tanking. Look at the bonuses, it's got the same bonuses as the Deimos does only better: two damage bonuses (one of which is a superior RoF bonus), a speed bonus (Cap-penalty-free MWD is a speed bonus), and a falloff bonus. Instead of orbiting at Warp Disruptor range fit for max speed/agility and doing very little damage, why not fit your Vaga for maximum gank, slap on a Large Shield Extender to give you a rather nice omni-resist buffer, and get up in your target's face like a Diemos does? Only a Vagabond could potentially do it better because it is faster and has far better falloff so it spend less time not shooting at its target. I really think that the new Vagabond could find a nice role as a Diemos-esque gank ship that's faster, has a better buffer, and can keep firing under cap warfare. Granted, this role is nowhere near as survivable as the old nano-Vaga (ask any Diemos pilot), but it's still a viable role. And if enough people start doing this, you'll have to start asking yourself, 'Is that Vaga nano'd or gank fit?'

3. I still see some people in this thread and in other places fitting low-slow nano modules as if they had the old bonuses: 2x OD 2x Nano, 3x OD 1x Nano, etc. This is dumb. Look at the new stats on the modules and you'll see why. 3x OD 1x IStab, 2x OD, 1x Nano, 1x IStab, etc. will produce more balanced fits without one bonus (speed or agility) getting hit hard with a stacking nerf.

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most

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Originally by: Achura Model

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Vaga is designed to spidtank because it can't tank otherwise. Caldari HACs can tank with distance, gal and ammar - with armor, vaga - with speed. Period. Yes, vaga will still be the fastest HAC after nerf but it won't be able to tank with speed. So CCP should either give it something to tank other way (say, one or even two more med slots) or leave it alone.

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Originally by: blueops

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most

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so what? what about the amarr pilots from the last patch, the nos nerf affected "everyone" buttt mostly affected the amarr recons, OH NOES......get over it, minmatars recons and hacs are getting what was coming to them, they were so overpowered, that everyone is flying them, not just a few overpowered here and there, but everyone is training for damned min Hac and recon, i was mainly amarr, now im more gallente, butt they got somewhat screwed on the drone nerf, so what is left to nerf, since you dont see much caldari anymore? oh the minmatar. so just as the other guy said, live and adapt to your surroundings, if you have to train a new race, QQ more.

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Originally by: Kalintos Tyl

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actually nightawk is small ship powner

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Originally by: Euriti

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Your logic says:

"Because my stuff is useless yours should be too. Ha-ha."

That's pretty immature.

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