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Trader Lilly
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.20 18:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
So ppl keep complaining about Bountys and especially Incursions generating too much money. It is true that a lot of ISK gets generated by those out of thin air, but rather than nerfing those professions to a point where it is not worthwhile anymore in my opinion there should just be more ISK sinks in the game
Having many worthwhile ways to make isk is a good thing for ppl who do not have billions of ISK on your wallet, especially newer players, who dedicate a lot of time into eve with the goal to either buy shiny stuff or building up cash reserves for PvP
I know you can PvP with literally no money at all, but many people just will not do it without having cash reserves... There are still lots of ppl in eve who do not want to get involved into 0.0 politics or big alliances where they might get their ships for free. Not all of those want to fly arround in rifters for ages, but might be more interested in flying stuff like battleships, hacs or whatever, which are only people without reimbursement programms in their corps / alliances can afford when they can make money
The faster ppl can make money the more likely they are to engage into PvP (again... this counts for many people, not everyone)
So instead of nerfing the ways for not so rich people to make decent amounts of ISK imo there rather should be more reasonable ISK sinks
DOCKING FEES[
One of those ISK sinks would be something like a docking fee. In the end i believe it to be very reasonable if stations charge players for having their stations filled up with ships and other stuff. Ships take up a lot of room so when i have 100s of ships why should i not be charged for parking them in stations
I personally have arround 200 assembled ships all over eve.. most of them in NPC stations. So that proposal will hurt my own wallet as well, if i decide to keep my toys rather then putting them on the market
It does not need to be an excessive amount of ISK even small fees would result in a pretty huge ISK sink
Let me put up some numbers (The following list would be per day prices, either depending on ship class or volume
Frigatte: 10k ISK / day Cruiser: 25k ISK / day Battlecruiser: 40k ISK / day Battleship: 100k ISK / day Carrier / Dreads: 500k ISK / day
(this should only count for assembled ships
For me that would result in something arround 15 Million ISK / day which is still quite low for the amount of ships I own. But seeing that the fees would have to be payed also on days where people do not play it should not bee too high
New players will barely get hurt by this but ppl stockpiling ISK and Shiny toys who can afford it will have to pay some money
CARGO HANGAR SPACE
Pretty much the same should also count for cargo space used in station. Why would anyone let you fill their station up with unlimited amounts of junk for free
Also here it does not need to be insane amounts of ISK. Something like 1000k ISK per m-¦ used in a station would be enough
Again this does not hurt the newer players and people piling up stuff more and more can either afford it or just have to sell some stuff
This change would also add a new dynamic to stuff like market manipulations since piling up huge amounts of ORE / ITEMS or whatever will cost you money every day you hold the stuff back and do not put it back on the market
Last but not least..
MARKET TAXES
The taxes on the market should be a lot higher than they actually are. Something arround 10% would still be reasonable imo. It will cause the prices to a rise a little bit but will take huge amounts of ISK out of the game. 10% might still be a bit too much, starting at something like 5% would be good enough for a start and could still be fine tuned later if we need higher ISK sinks
Now troll away forum dwellers
P.S. I am not a native englisch speaker so if you have any problems with my grammar or with typos.. i do not give a ****. |
MushroomMushroom
Consolidated Sprocket
3
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Posted - 2012.03.20 18:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Docking fees punishes players who want to have flexibility to fly whats needed, namely pvpers, (need many ships for different doctrines/situations) while letting those generating the most isk, mission runners and incursioners off the hook (need 1 ship for all incursions) . Also, for 100m a month, people could park ships at a pos, etc... the fees would be a pain, and hurt those not contributing to inflation.
Higher sales taxes would dramatically damage the reseller profession, without which the big markets would be much less reliable. Often finding 0 modules of the type you need for sale would seriously suck, and would hurt player retention. |
Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1173
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Posted - 2012.03.20 18:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
The docking fees would only apply to NPC stations, right? Because conquerable stations already can charge docking fees, or not, if so desired.
Check the number you typed there.. 1m isk per m3 for hangar space? So storing a unit of metal scraps would cost 5m? No.
5% is urely better than 10%. |
Trader Lilly
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.20 18:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Feligast wrote:The docking fees would only apply to NPC stations, right? Because conquerable stations already can charge docking fees, or not, if so desired.
Check the number you typed there.. 1m isk per m3 for hangar space? So storing a unit of metal scraps would cost 5m? No.
5% is urely better than 10%.
my bad.. should have been 1k / m-¦ gonna fix that |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1009
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Posted - 2012.03.20 18:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
You're effectively suggesting to penalize everyone because you feel that certain professions make more ISK than you think they should. That's full blown stupid right there. And it's even worse because what you're suggesting would penalize people who do a variety of things, as MushroomMushroom said.
Your solution is like cutting your hand off because you stubbed your toe, it doesn't do anything about the actual 'problem' (which isn't that big an issue to begin with, all things considered) and it massively screws over the rest of your body (or the rest of the player base). |
Aglais
Right Click Industries
55
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Posted - 2012.03.20 18:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
I am detecting exactly zero redeeming qualities to your idea. You desire to drain people's wallets based on how many assets they own? I have loads of assets, all over the place, in places that I can't access in some cases. This means that there will ALWAYS be an entirely pointless drain on my wallet that I can do absolutely nothing about. Also. Oh my god, 1000 ISK per cubic meter of hangar space? Are you INSANE? In my hangars in stations where assets are concentrated, I likely have enough assets located there that I keep around for valid reasons that the costs all across the board may come to maybe 15mil ISK per day, plus 15mil ISK a day for my ships being docked. For a grand total of 30mil a day. And then I still somehow have to make a PROFIT, so I can buy NEW THINGS if I lose them in PvP. So then what?
And then you want to completely screw over the consumer by making things needlessly more expensive, IN ADDITION to making it harder to actually KEEP your ISK. Oh my god how high do you even have to be. This is a terrible idea for so many reasons. You are literally just subtracting ISK from the game. It's not even going into anything useful. It's just being nullified. This isn't an ISK sink. This is stone cold ********.
Go away. Just leave. |
Grumpy Owly
351
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Posted - 2012.03.20 18:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Assets per volume charge and market tax, directly effects the poor industrials and subsequently makes them it harder to help with needed money velocity with the production of goods for market activity. As such it doesn't help your reasoning behind driving inflation down and subsequently penalises the recognised "poor" professions further.
When you consider the large stocks or bulky items needed to do some industrial work, it is highly skewed against certain professions to do this on a volume based charge.
They are already paying the station with their industrial activities already with station related costs for the various functions. Bounty Hunting for CSM7 |
Trader Lilly
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.20 19:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aglais wrote:I am detecting exactly zero redeeming qualities to your idea. You desire to drain people's wallets based on how many assets they own? I have loads of assets, all over the place, in places that I can't access in some cases. This means that there will ALWAYS be an entirely pointless drain on my wallet that I can do absolutely nothing about. Also. Oh my god, 1000 ISK per cubic meter of hangar space? Are you INSANE? In my hangars in stations where assets are concentrated, I likely have enough assets located there that I keep around for valid reasons that the costs all across the board may come to maybe 15mil ISK per day, plus 15mil ISK a day for my ships being docked. For a grand total of 30mil a day. And then I still somehow have to make a PROFIT, so I can buy NEW THINGS if I lose them in PvP. So then what?
And then you want to completely screw over the consumer by making things needlessly more expensive, IN ADDITION to making it harder to actually KEEP your ISK. Oh my god how high do you even have to be. This is a terrible idea for so many reasons. You are literally just subtracting ISK from the game. It's not even going into anything useful. It's just being nullified. This isn't an ISK sink. This is stone cold ********.
Go away. Just leave.
If it is assetts which can not be accessed its a player owned station not a 0.0 station.....
If you can afford to pile up 100s of ships you have sitting arround you can afford to pay some taxes for those....
And more and more ISK entering the economy even with or without incursions when there are no ISK sinks created at some point will cause inflation and will prices rise as well... |
Silas Kautsuo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.03.20 19:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
You have zero clue do you?
Docking fees would hurt just about everybody from pvpers to traders.
Having to pay for every big of hangar space would just mean micro management on a stupid scale
Raising taxes would decrease trade and therefore the velocity of isk, which is what we need to increase right now to provide a way to counter the inflationary economy we're currently in.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
368
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Posted - 2012.03.20 19:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
This is a bad idea. It will encourage people to not undock. Might as well tax moving my mouse or ship spinning fees too. The government is strong in this one.
Playing with the ISK flows on a global scale, especially penalizing everyone for an action as common as breathing, is not going to fix the systemic issues with the Eve economy.
If you want to target an ISK sink at the wealthy, there are two ways to go about it, let them show off their wealth with pointless trinkets and baubles. (no Nex does not create an ISK sink).
Or allow expressions of wealth in matters of innovation that can fail.
A couple of examples:
How much ISK would people spend to get a 20% chance at being in the front of the line for production queues in busy stations?
How much ISK would people pay to "hire an expert" NPC agent for an extra 5% chance at an invention job?
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Aglais
Right Click Industries
56
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Posted - 2012.03.20 19:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Trader Lilly wrote:
If it is assetts which can not be accessed its a player owned station not a 0.0 station.....
If you can afford to pile up 100s of ships you have sitting arround you can afford to pay some taxes for those....
And more and more ISK entering the economy even with or without incursions when there are no ISK sinks created at some point will cause inflation and will prices rise as well...
It's entirely possible for someone to at some point in time be able to afford loads of ships, and then at a later point in time, no longer have the ability to generate significant quantities of ISK in reasonable amounts of time (ie. from suddenly having more of a life for reasons of education, relationships with others, etc. and not desiring to cancel subscription).
Your idea still entirely penalizes anyone for not being a goddamn ascetic with the absolute minimum quantity of material to get by, regardless of their profession.
Again. This is NOT an ISK sink. Generally, a sink will actually perform some purpose in the game, not just needlessly remove the currency in question. Purchasing PvP ships is more of an ISK sink than this.
This idea is no less bad than when you initially proposed it, and you should feel bad for it even crossing your mind.
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mxzf
Shovel Bros
1009
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Posted - 2012.03.20 19:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:This is a bad idea. It will encourage people to not undock. Might as well tax moving my mouse or ship spinning fees too. The government is strong in this one.
Playing with the ISK flows on a global scale, especially penalizing everyone for an action as common as breathing, is not going to fix the systemic issues with the Eve economy.
If you want to target an ISK sink at the wealthy, there are two ways to go about it, let them show off their wealth with pointless trinkets and baubles. (no Nex does not create an ISK sink).
Or allow expressions of wealth in matters of innovation that can fail.
A couple of examples:
How much ISK would people spend to get a 20% chance at being in the front of the line for production queues in busy stations?
How much ISK would people pay to "hire an expert" NPC agent for an extra 5% chance at an invention job?
The problem is that both of those suggestions target the industrials. The OP was complaining about ISK made from Incursions and such. A better ISK sink for people like that would be ship painting or CQ decorations or something more like that. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
300
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Posted - 2012.03.20 19:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
So what happens if someone doesn't have the isk to pay the docking and holding fees for everything? |
Radelix Cisko
The Adjustment Team
30
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Posted - 2012.03.21 18:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
I would support this idea with few modifications
1) Instead of rent treat it more like a toll to get past the docking portal. You don't dock you don't get charged 1a) Allow hangar access from space so you can avoid docking fee but access your stuff. Freighters and the like without jetcan ports would still have to dock
2) Following the toll model you would get charged based on ship size. Tolls should be reasonable 500 ISK for a frig, 1000 for a Cruiser or something along that line.
3) If you are in the red iskie wise then it should not prevent you from docking but just add to your debt. If your debt gets too high with that station or station owner then you take a standings hit to that owner until the debt is paid.
I have other ideas but this should stoke the flames for now
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Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
497
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Posted - 2012.03.21 19:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
- As your sec status drops, your taxes increase. You should pay a premium for your active bad ass lifestyle and if you are neg 10, well lets just say the third world beggers will look like Donald Trump after your clone costs go up, market transactions go up, contracts become more pricey, even manual instation trades would start to cost you.
- To counter it, don't go all bad ass Shooty McShooty 24/7/365. Yeah, the would be the way to counter the tax drain. Just step back and go "Whoa! Whoa! Ok, had a enough of this lifestyle a bit. I finally relize, what it means to encounter "risk" once it starts to cost me more after blowing up hulks all day."
Yeah, dumb idea. Just one of the ways CCP could offer an incentive to not go all bad ass all the time, just seems like EVE has more rewards to the risky folks without the penalty vs the guys stuck being the sheep as they try to gain a reward. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
46
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Posted - 2012.03.23 17:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
Why docking? Why not toll on using the jumpgates?
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
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