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Stanleycat
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.08.04 16:31:00 -
[1]
Can someone give me a good fitting setup for the Onyx pls?
ta
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari ACE'S OVER 8'S Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.04 17:29:00 -
[2]
[Onyx, Fleet Onyx] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Warp Disruption Field Generator I
Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I
__________________________________________________
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.04 18:12:00 -
[3]
Ignore the setup above. The Onyx is a terrible mission ship, the tank is overkill, the damage is pathetic (I doubt you can even finish a level 4, even if you can tank five of them at once), and the WDFG is useless. Here is a much better setup, for PvP, the role the Onyx is supposed to fill:
[Onyx, Fleet] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Warp Disruption Field Generator I, Focused Warp Disruption
Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I
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Stanleycat
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.08.04 19:27:00 -
[4]
Thanks for the pvp setup. Its what I was looking for. Do you ever stick on a cloak or a mwd though?
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.04 19:38:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Stanleycat Thanks for the pvp setup. Its what I was looking for. Do you ever stick on a cloak or a mwd though?
1) MWD is mandatory, period. No MWD = not a PvP setup.
2) Cloak is optional. I personally wouldn't get much use from it, so I just fit another HML instead, but if you think you'll use it, feel free to fit one. I do my gatecamping in low-sec, so the locking delay kills most cloaking tactics, but in 0.0 you could put the bubble up immediately.
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Dheorl
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.04 20:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin No MWD = not a cookie cutter setup.
Fixed.
P.S. Sorry if I've missed a few but I've been on holiday.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.04 20:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Merin Ryskin No MWD = not a cookie cutter setup.
Fixed.
P.S. Sorry if I've missed a few but I've been on holiday.
Yes, I know that you have nothing better to do than follow me around and spam this nonsense.
Like it or not, MWDs are mandatory if you want to avoid being a comedy killmail, especially in 0.0. And guess where HICs are most useful... in 0.0, home of all those bubbles you want to get out of ASAP. In either low-sec or 0.0, if you run into a gatecamp:
MWD = you run back to the gate and have a good chance of jumping out.
No MWD = you die.
Oh yeah, and:
MWD = you keep the target in Infinipoint(tm) range.
No MWD = who needs stabs when you can just MWD out of range and warp off?
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Stanleycat
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.08.04 20:13:00 -
[8]
Thx - i actually misread your original post and didnt see the mwd.
Going to try it out.
Cheers
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari ACE'S OVER 8'S Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.04 21:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Ignore the setup above. The Onyx is a terrible mission ship, the tank is overkill, the damage is pathetic (I doubt you can even finish a level 4, even if you can tank five of them at once), and the WDFG is useless. Here is a much better setup, for PvP, the role the Onyx is supposed to fill:
[Onyx, Fleet] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Warp Disruption Field Generator I, Focused Warp Disruption
Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I
FAILnull __________________________________________________
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.04 21:56:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 04/08/2008 21:55:49
Originally by: supr3m3justic3 FAILnull
Since NPCs do not attempt to warp out, warp scrambling of any kind (including the WDFG) is useless against them.
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari ACE'S OVER 8'S Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.04 22:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 04/08/2008 21:55:49
Originally by: supr3m3justic3 FAILnull
Since NPCs do not attempt to warp out, warp scrambling of any kind (including the WDFG) is useless against them.
it wasnt for pve.... __________________________________________________
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.04 22:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: supr3m3justic3
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 04/08/2008 21:55:49
Originally by: supr3m3justic3 FAILnull
Since NPCs do not attempt to warp out, warp scrambling of any kind (including the WDFG) is useless against them.
it wasnt for pve....
1) No MWD.
2) SPRs.
It's a PvE ship.
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari ACE'S OVER 8'S
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Posted - 2008.08.04 22:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: supr3m3justic3
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 04/08/2008 21:55:49
Originally by: supr3m3justic3 FAILnull
Since NPCs do not attempt to warp out, warp scrambling of any kind (including the WDFG) is useless against them.
it wasnt for pve....
1) No MWD.
2) SPRs.
It's a PvE ship.
i didnt ask for your opinion....so there's no need to voice it! __________________________________________________
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Shereza
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Posted - 2008.08.05 02:46:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Shereza on 05/08/2008 02:50:17
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Stanleycat Thanks for the pvp setup. Its what I was looking for. Do you ever stick on a cloak or a mwd though?
1) MWD is mandatory, period. No MWD = not a PvP setup.
2) Cloak is optional. I personally wouldn't get much use from it, so I just fit another HML instead, but if you think you'll use it, feel free to fit one. I do my gatecamping in low-sec, so the locking delay kills most cloaking tactics, but in 0.0 you could put the bubble up immediately.
Frankly, if you're running a heavy interdictor in 0.0 the usefulness of an MWD is highly debatable to my eyes.
If you run the field generator as a bubble the MWD's going to lose a lot of its oomph and when you run a script, which about doubles the cap consumption of the field generator, the cap penalty of the MWD will have an impact on your ability to keep it up.
Now, if the nano-nerf blog idea of making all MWDs provide a 500% speed boost and make the cap penalty dependant on the meta-level/module (T1 is 25%, T2 is 16% reduction to max capacitor I believe) goes into play then putting an MWD on, especially a higher-end one, won't be as painful but it still won't be a nice feeling.
That aside, if you're parked on the gate and bubbled and something heavier than you, and/or your gang, can handle shows up you can just jump through and pray. If you're between a gate, station, or something else and a warp vector that your prey will use then to my thinking having an MWD on your ship might do more harm than good or might not even do any good at all. There are just too many variables involved for an honest definitive answer pro or anti-MWD.
Of course, the idea that MWDs are required on any "real" PvP ship has never been a philosophy I ascribed to. They're good on some ships/builds, they suck on others. I've successfully flown ships that were fitted with afterburners because an MWD would have gutted the ship in one or more ways.
One size does not fit all.
EDIT: For something more constructive and on-topic, heavy interdictor DPS is, to be blunt, pathetic. The other week when I was thinking about that I came up with this type of idea.
[Onyx, L5 - Multi-Target] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 400 Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruption Field Generator I Warp Disruption Field Generator I, Focused Warp Disruption Warp Disruption Field Generator I, Focused Warp Disruption Warp Disruption Field Generator I, Focused Warp Disruption Warp Disruption Field Generator I, Focused Warp Disruption [empty high slot]
Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I
Basically you can bubble out to range X and anything that looks like it might escape that your gang can web but not scramble you can scramble out to range X+50% to, hopefully, give more time to kill it or bounce it back into your bubble.
Tackler? No. Spider web ship designed to try to make people stick around? Yes.
Practical? I've never read of anyone using it to good or bad effect so I have no clue. ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
Aleus Stygian
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin MWD = you run back to the gate and have a good chance of jumping out.
No MWD = you die.
Oh yeah, and:
MWD = you keep the target in Infinipoint(tm) range.
No MWD = who needs stabs when you can just MWD out of range and warp off?
And you know, this is exactly why I hate the damn MWD.
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BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.08.05 10:13:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Ignore the setup above. The Onyx is a terrible mission ship, the tank is overkill, the damage is pathetic (I doubt you can even finish a level 4, even if you can tank five of them at once), and the WDFG is useless. Here is a much better setup, for PvP, the role the Onyx is supposed to fill:
[Onyx, Fleet] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
WTF are you fitting a damage control for!!?
shield tankers with dmg control mods = fail setups
they give bogus resist on shield and cal ships have eweak armour n structure so when ur shields gone ur dead dcu or no dcu.
Fit a cap recharge mod hell fit a bcs, just not a dcu! poudly annoying fc's since 2007
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast |
Angua Eteria
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Posted - 2008.08.05 10:16:00 -
[17]
hu
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.08.05 10:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: BiggestT WTF are you fitting a damage control for!!?
shield tankers with dmg control mods = fail setups
Are you completely insane, or just clueless at fitting ships?
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BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.08.05 10:21:00 -
[19]
Edited by: BiggestT on 05/08/2008 10:22:01
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: BiggestT WTF are you fitting a damage control for!!?
shield tankers with dmg control mods = fail setups
Are you completely insane, or just clueless at fitting ships?
t2 gives 12.5% resist to shields compare this to 15% on armour it is an armour tanking mod.
Far better off just using the invuln field as 12.5% after stack will do jack all. A cap recharge mod wld fair much better.
Oh and i bet uve never even flown an onyx let alone know how to [edit(typo)]fit one. poudly annoying fc's since 2007
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.08.05 10:24:00 -
[20]
Please tell me more about how Damage Controls stack with other resist mods, and whether extra EHP is useful on buffer tankers.
Actually, don't. Merin has already probably spontaneously combusted.
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BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.08.05 10:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gypsio III Please tell me more about how Damage Controls stack with other resist mods, and whether extra EHP is useful on buffer tankers.
Actually, don't. Merin has already probably spontaneously combusted.
well seeing as ive avoided them all my life i simply assumed they stack like every other resist mod/rig/whatever in the game..if they dont then one with 90% reists cld get over 100% with a dcu if what ur saying is correct. Which i doubt. poudly annoying fc's since 2007
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.08.05 10:45:00 -
[22]
Damage Controls do not stack with other resist mods - shield or armour ones. Hence, if you have 3 Inv fields, the full shield resist of 12.5% (or whatever it is) is still applied to your resists.
This does mean that 100% resists are achievable, because that isn't how resists work. A damage control always increases your resists by 12.5% (or whatever) of the remaining vulnerability - regardless of your other Inv fields, resist amps or whatever.
Furthermore, the lowslot fitting of the DC offers excellent synergy with the other midslot shield mods. DCs are essential mods on shield tankers.
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BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.08.05 10:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Gypsio III Damage Controls do not stack with other resist mods - shield or armour ones. Hence, if you have 3 Inv fields, the full shield resist of 12.5% (or whatever it is) is still applied to your resists.
This does mean that 100% resists are achievable, because that isn't how resists work. A damage control always increases your resists by 12.5% (or whatever) of the remaining vulnerability - regardless of your other Inv fields, resist amps or whatever.
Furthermore, the lowslot fitting of the DC offers excellent synergy with the other midslot shield mods. DCs are essential mods on shield tankers.
yes thats why ive never used one and have had no problems? lol cap recharge is far more important for shield tankers especially onyx which need much cap for its bubble and for contnous jumping around and mwd use.. poudly annoying fc's since 2007
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast |
Rajere
No Trademark Obsidian Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.05 11:20:00 -
[24]
HIC without a MWD is a fail fit. The only exception to this is AB fitted HIC to tackle carebears in missions/plexes that do not allow MWDs. The necessity of the MWD on HICs will not diminish after the nano-nerf either. It's true that HICs, more than any other ship, have steep limitations on their use of MWDs, and therefore the penalties for fitting a MWD is most apparent on HICs. However, the situations in which the MWD is required are not situations where you have your bubble activated. Rather, the MWD is needed to ensure you can effectively use your bubble, it enables you to control when & where you place your bubble. The MWD allows you to do things such as making sure your bubble is centered on a gate and catching your target, being able to reapproach a gate & quickly re-enter a system you just left, etc, especially when timing is the major factor in whether your target lives or dies. The MWD is what allows the HIC to act as a Mobile Bubble, it provides mobility. If your gang is simply permacamping a particular gate in a particular system and never actually moving (the only times you wouldn't need a MWD), then you don't need a HIC, it's a poor substitute for an anchored bubble which are far cheaper to replace.
Same reason that SPR's don't belong on pvp fits, you cap out from simply warping between gates while traveling/chasing targets, never mind the fact that it makes using your bubble/point cap unstable. NOTR How to Fail at Eve
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Gurnsie
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Posted - 2008.08.07 15:11:00 -
[25]
WTF are you fitting a damage control for!!?
shield tankers with dmg control mods = fail setups
they give bogus resist on shield and cal ships have eweak armour n structure so when ur shields gone ur dead dcu or no dcu.
Fit a cap recharge mod hell fit a bcs, just not a dcu!
Anyone who read this please ignore it a dcu on a shield tanking ship is amazing. They have saved my ass many times. Your armor and structure lituraly last twice as long so when in a long fight or 1 v 1 they are a god send. While booster is running and your taking armor damage on low shields your dead very soon with out it, if you have one you last alot longer.
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Gimpb
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Posted - 2008.08.07 15:57:00 -
[26]
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Ignore the setup above. The Onyx is a terrible mission ship, the tank is overkill, the damage is pathetic (I doubt you can even finish a level 4, even if you can tank five of them at once), and the WDFG is useless. Here is a much better setup, for PvP, the role the Onyx is supposed to fill:
[Onyx, Fleet] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
WTF are you fitting a damage control for!!?
shield tankers with dmg control mods = fail setups
they give bogus resist on shield and cal ships have eweak armour n structure so when ur shields gone ur dead dcu or no dcu.
Fit a cap recharge mod hell fit a bcs, just not a dcu!
A DC isn't a bad choice, sub-caps in pvp are all about EHP and the DC is a considerable increase in EHP. The fit already has enough cap for most situations and as for a bcs... damage isn't a heavy dictor's job, it's a side bonus. The DC does more for the ship's tank than anything else except a SPR and you don't want that cap hit.
A 4th power diag instead of the DC is also a good option for a setup like this, it allows one to fit heavy assault IIs without exceptional skills, if you're so inclined, and gets you more cap.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.07 16:16:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gypsio III Damage Controls do not stack with other resist mods - shield or armour ones. Hence, if you have 3 Inv fields, the full shield resist of 12.5% (or whatever it is) is still applied to your resists.
This does mean that 100% resists are achievable, because that isn't how resists work. A damage control always increases your resists by 12.5% (or whatever) of the remaining vulnerability - regardless of your other Inv fields, resist amps or whatever.
Furthermore, the lowslot fitting of the DC offers excellent synergy with the other midslot shield mods. DCs are essential mods on shield tankers.
To be fair, a PDS II will give you 5% more shield, and 8.5% more recharge, for a net 14.75% boost to a passive tank's base regen rate. But it does this at the same time as adding cap and grid. So in some situations, there's a case to be made for PDS IIs.
The 12.5% unstacked resist of the DCU II is quite nice though - because it's 12.5% more effective hitpoints on shield, it's -also- 12.5% more effective regen (so, slightly less than a PDS II). Unlike the PDS II though, it has a secondary effect of increasing your structure and armour resist, for a net boost to your effective hitpoints which is substantial.
EHPs are probably more important than passive regen in PvP, which is why the damage control is _generally_ a better choice than the PDS.
That said, I run 2 PDS on my Onyx, because those WDFGs are cap pigs, and I like having the boost to cap as well. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.08.08 11:15:00 -
[28]
Edited by: BiggestT on 08/08/2008 11:16:00
Originally by: Gurnsie
WTF are you fitting a damage control for!!?
shield tankers with dmg control mods = fail setups
they give bogus resist on shield and cal ships have eweak armour n structure so when ur shields gone ur dead dcu or no dcu.
Fit a cap recharge mod hell fit a bcs, just not a dcu!
Anyone who read this please ignore it a dcu on a shield tanking ship is amazing. They have saved my ass many times. Your armor and structure lituraly last twice as long so when in a long fight or 1 v 1 they are a god send. While booster is running and your taking armor damage on low shields your dead very soon with out it, if you have one you last alot longer.
LOL
so many things about that post are just wrong. Firstly your applying dcu usefullness to active tanks, I cant think of a useful cal cruiser that active tanks and is a good ship. Most are buffer or passive, also, cal ships have bugger all hull+armour so the extra resists there arent v special.
Where talking about an onyx: PASSIVE tanker, wtf u going on about shield boosters for?? Your saying to ignore my post then rant on about 1v1's! lol its an ONYX you wanna 1v1 in it, LOL. Yes your right, an onyx isnt a fleet ship its a 1v1 ship -.- wanna 1v1 in it? go right ahead, just dont post here, oh and when u lose ur battle hulk dont cry for a nerf on the ship that popped it kthxbai
P.S Fit a pdu over a dcu on anything caldari (sub-bs) edit: typos poudly annoying fc's since 2007
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast |
BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.08.08 11:20:00 -
[29]
Originally by: James Lyrus
EHPs are probably more important than passive regen in PvP, which is why the damage control is _generally_ a better choice than the PDS.
I tend do disagree there lyrus, capacitor + more tank is more important to me than just more, more tank.. Especially in the case of the onyx that runs mwd and bubble.. poudly annoying fc's since 2007
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast |
Waxau
Unus - Vir Exercitus
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Posted - 2008.08.08 11:22:00 -
[30]
Sigh - BiggestT - All those whine threads you make just made you annoying. But now i see you have no clue about current gameplay. Hence the whines possibly?
Either case, an onyx, with 3 pdu and 1 DCU will give you a great effective hp count than with 4 PDU. An onyx isnt meant to deal damage. Its meant to tank, and bubble.
Firstly, an onyx with 3 PDU will permarun the bubble AND will give enough juice to use the MWD for a bit.
Secondly, as stated, a DCU will give greaeter effective hp, AND uses barely no cap - Thus gives you more survivability, even when neuted.
Thirdly, there are NO OTHER useful mods to go into that last low slot, other than pdu (obsolete), BCU (lol dps hic...) and nanogear. And seeing as how you hardly need to nano.... Might i suggest you listen to those with the knowledge, and fit a DCU.
And try it on the rest of your ships maybe? You might find an improvement. Ha actually - What to Merin and i know. We've only been playing for several years.
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