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Captain Porter
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Posted - 2008.08.04 20:30:00 -
[1]
People refuse or are not willing to learn different play styles or learn to adapt to counteract other player's playing styles.
In my opinion, if you only know one style you fail to learn how to play the game and how to be an effective member for the profession (combat, miner, industrialist) you chose.
What do you think?
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Amarrian Cougar
Amarr TalCorp Enterprises Einherjar Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.04 20:31:00 -
[2]
I think this has been discussed to much.
I think you should go away now.
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.04 20:34:00 -
[3]
On the other hand, how can a new player expect to compete at all against older players, unless he specializes a little bit?
Fast ships, tough ships, hard hitting ships. If your going to be 'good' at something, you have to focus on it. Small ships, medium and large. Specialization is pretty important.
But to be honest, it's pretty amazing that we can do these things in an MMO. Most games you can't.
"The greatest offense is no defense."
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.08.04 20:54:00 -
[4]
The ability to choose freely has caused more confusion than peroxide.
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Captain Porter
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Posted - 2008.08.04 20:54:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Amarrian Cougar I think this has been discussed to much.
I think you should go away now.
Very constructive. Thank you for your input.
On a side note. Yes, this has been talked about but usually it is included with nerf this or boost that sort of threads and not a stand alone comment.
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Gasm
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Posted - 2008.08.04 21:03:00 -
[6]
your base premise is very vague.
i'm not fond of Eve players in general, but in this particular case, i don't understand what you are saying.
eve players do indeed adapt to very many things: stupid, absolutely stupid massive lag they accept like docile beaten dogs from CCP, bugs they accept and adapt to, some horrific interface contstructions (like corp management), massive lag, changes to weapon systems (torp nerf), rediculous projectile weapon systems, race nerfs, complex camping, etc, etc. on the whole, if anything, Eve players seem very adaptable, which must make CCP quite happy in actuality. they have to adapt, because CCP puts out such a low quality gaming experience which these people defend as "hard core" and "harsh" and all the internet gangster rhetoric.
if you are referencing the speed nerf, that's a different pickle my friend. there are people who have been flying around for a long time essentially invulnerable - like the guy who mentioned the other day he's been pvp'ing in the SAME snake set for 2 years - and invulnerability is addicting.
some players' entire eve pvp life is built around being inulnerable to damage via speed tanking. of course they are going to cry like stuck pigs if that is taken away, and BS+ size blobbing returns as the rigour du jour.
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ninjaholic
Gallente Procrasgineering Inc
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Posted - 2008.08.04 21:04:00 -
[7]
Edited by: ninjaholic on 04/08/2008 21:06:04
Ruze is right. The key to Eve Online is specialization. Specialization leaves holes in a ship's setup, which you are expected to exploit in some way or another. This is the same for every player in Eve Online. The problem is that most players pick typical setups, and veteran players can easily exploit them. The new players will have to be inventive to survive, especially with the new changes to Afterburners/MWD's coming in.
Eve O's in-game fight record tool!! |
Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.08.04 21:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Captain Porter People refuse or are not willing to learn different play styles or learn to adapt to counteract other player's playing styles.
In my opinion, if you only know one style you fail to learn how to play the game and how to be an effective member for the profession (combat, miner, industrialist) you chose.
What do you think?
Yeah, comfort zones.
The tears of those who suddenly apprehend that they're not in the absolutely optimal ship/mod/rig/implant/skill combo and are therefore terribly afraid that some else is thereby better than them.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.08.04 21:56:00 -
[9]
As I clicked into this thread I thought to myself "if the OP says anything about lag I'm gonna need the internet chokin' hands."
So actually even though the OP brought up a different topic that has also been discussed a million times, I was pleasantly surprised in a way.
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Zephyr Rengate
dearg doom
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Posted - 2008.08.04 22:04:00 -
[10]
the biggest issue in my opinion is the lack of a wow like pvp system with arena. If we had that more ppl would pvp, and thats a good thing!
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.04 22:13:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate the biggest issue in my opinion is the lack of a wow like pvp system with arena. If we had that more ppl would pvp, and thats a good thing!
This guy is awesome. At first, I thought he was completely serious, and said all kinds of rude crap to him. Then I started seeing just how effective he was at pointing out the difference.
In this quote alone, right here, he shows you that EvE is a great game because it doesn't cheapen the intense struggle between players by making some false 'arena'. EvE is very in tune with realism, and in a really lawless universe, there are no 'fair fights' and one-on-one duels. It's dog-eat-dog, and usually two or three dogs to boot.
Seriously. Listen to what this man says. He'll teach you something about subtlety.
"The greatest offense is no defense."
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Elaine Celeste
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Posted - 2008.08.04 22:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Gasm if you are referencing the speed nerf, that's a different pickle my friend. there are people who have been flying around for a long time essentially invulnerable - like the guy who mentioned the other day he's been pvp'ing in the SAME snake set for 2 years - and invulnerability is addicting.
It's not really very hard to save your pod, especially if you don't spend much time in 0.0. Just warp-spam before blowing up and you'll make it out without any problems.
So now if I don't get podded while wearing my awesome +1 set, they're overpowered and should be nerfed?
CELESTE LOTTERIES |
Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.04 22:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Captain Porter Edited by: Captain Porter on 04/08/2008 20:59:16
Originally by: Amarrian Cougar I think this has been discussed to much.
I think you should go away now.
Very constructive. Thank you for your input.
On a side note. Yes, this has been talked about but usually it is included with nerf this or boost that sort of threads and not a stand alone comment.
Ruze - good point, and I agree specialization is very good. For combat though, shouldn't you learn about other styles so you know how to go against it? If you specialize in one area you could be setting yourself up for constant pawnage.
And, as he said, as a newer player it is completely necessary to specialize. If the newer player does not specialize, he cannot even dream to compete with players that have been around, since his jack-of-all-trades sp will be constantly beaten by older players.
However, yes I do believe it is important that every single pvper understand all aspects of the different ways to pvp so they can counter and react accordingly. --
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Gasm
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Posted - 2008.08.04 22:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Elaine Celeste So now if I don't get podded while wearing my awesome +1 set, they're overpowered and should be nerfed?
point taken.
and btw, i never said anything was overpowered or needed a nerf. of course, you realized that but you have another agenda.
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Elaine Celeste
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Posted - 2008.08.04 22:22:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gasm
Originally by: Elaine Celeste So now if I don't get podded while wearing my awesome +1 set, they're overpowered and should be nerfed?
point taken.
and btw, i never said anything was overpowered or needed a nerf. of course, you realized that but you have another agenda.
Yes, world domination.
CELESTE LOTTERIES |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.04 23:29:00 -
[16]
This thread is incorrect, the majority of players have no issue adapting and playing, its the forum *****s like us that do the whining
Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.04 23:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme This thread is incorrect, the majority of players have no issue adapting and playing, its the forum *****s like us that do the whining
This man speaks truth.
"The greatest offense is no defense."
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.08.04 23:51:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme This thread is incorrect, the majority of players have no issue adapting and playing, its the forum *****s like us that do the whining
I don't whine... I gripe Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
You're not afraid of the dark, are you? |
Khrillian
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.04 23:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Captain Porter People refuse or are not willing to learn different play styles or learn to adapt to counteract other player's playing styles.
In my opinion, if you only know one style you fail to learn how to play the game and how to be an effective member for the profession (combat, miner, industrialist) you chose.
What do you think?
I think you're wrong. One of the few professions that has a significant amount of overlap with other professions is trading. Being able to predict price changes when there are patches requires knowledge of who uses what - what mods in pvp are popular, what NPCs drop different items, etc.
Other than that, why would I care how to mine if I just run missions? Why would I care how to run missions if I just build? I guess I might care where the hubs are, but that's it.
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Zephyr Rengate
dearg doom
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:02:00 -
[20]
I think its a very seriuos isssue that not many other people share my feelings on pvp,, there really needs to be an arena system, or even a way to instance pvp so that we can enjoy pvp in a save enviroment.
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heheheh
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:12:00 -
[21]
Edited by: heheheh on 05/08/2008 00:12:54
Originally by: Captain Porter People on the forum refuse or are not willing to learn different play styles or learn to adapt to counteract other player's playing styles.
Altered this a little to add more truth, what you read in here and what happens in game are two different things.
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Andrew shi'tra
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:27:00 -
[22]
I think i like pie! |
Captain Porter
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Posted - 2008.08.05 04:08:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Khrillian I think you're wrong. One of the few professions that has a significant amount of overlap with other professions is trading. Being able to predict price changes when there are patches requires knowledge of who uses what - what mods in pvp are popular, what NPCs drop different items, etc.
Other than that, why would I care how to mine if I just run missions? Why would I care how to run missions if I just build? I guess I might care where the hubs are, but that's it.
I guess I kind of over simplified what I was saying.
Yes, trading could require you to know more about what is going on in the Eve Universe than the other professions. I can't argue this point.
Now, to answer your questions. You are comparing different professions. Mining vs Missioning and Missioning vs Industrialist.
My comment is that if you are in a certain profession you need to learn all that you can about that profession.
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Keflin Geard
The Circle STYX.
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Posted - 2008.08.05 07:30:00 -
[24]
Whats wrong with eve is people who cant stomach putting the time and effort into paying there dues and learning the game. Eve is so great because its hard and mean. While many of the patches made the eve universe more interesting in terms of content it also seems to have reduced the ingame and rl skills to survive and prosper.
This may make entry into the game easier - but its not going to keep players interested over the long term.
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Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.05 07:45:00 -
[25]
I agree. I know I refuse to learn a different playstyle.
I'm only going to fly frigs, cruisers and BCs… all of them… and that's the end of that!
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.05 07:53:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I don't whine
you cheese ...
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.05 08:13:00 -
[27]
Actually, though we wandered a bit off topic into what new players should do vs old players, rather than the general issue of adaptation, the issue in combat is can you do something effective. It doesn't really matter what that is. A few-months-old player in a blackbird can turn the tide of a battle. Several few-month-old players will still kill an solo older player if the player skill is roughly equally, barring complete mismatches of fits, and that's just bad luck.
Adapting is part of combat. Nonetheless good adaptation is not about countering what the enemy does. If you are always reacting to the enemy, eventually you will lose because you never have the initiative, and on average you will be losing more battles. If on the other hand you do something completely different that the enemy doesn't expect, you have the initiative and force them to either equally do the unexpected, or counter your move and lose the initiative.
A single 'playstyle' simply cannot do this. Pick anything: nano-ships, blobs, roaming gangs, solo hunters, plex capping frigate fleets; they all are aimed at specific scenarios, and if that scenario doesn't happen, they usually die or fail to meet their objective.
To take a topical example, we quickly learned in the Amarr Militia that we're outnumbered, and the Minmatar have superior numbers, SP, and some serious alliance backing. Whilst the situation is ironic from a roleplay standpoint, we adapted nonetheless. Whilst larger fleets distract or engage the Minmatar blobs, smaller groups move around the enemy, picking off stragglers, capturing plexes, and so on. Despite being outnumbered almost 2 to 1, we have averaged almost the same number of victory points and kills as our enemy.
None of this needed a single playstyle. What it needed was the ability to take an enemy's advantage and turn it into your own, and you can only do that by adapting. In other words, I think most people adapt all the time, and it's only those that either complain or note something doesn't seem quite right that you get to hear about here. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.08.05 08:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate the biggest issue in my opinion is the lack of a wow like pvp system with arena. If we had that more ppl would pvp, and thats a good thing!
This guy is awesome. At first, I thought he was completely serious, and said all kinds of rude crap to him. Then I started seeing just how effective he was at pointing out the difference.
In this quote alone, right here, he shows you that EvE is a great game because it doesn't cheapen the intense struggle between players by making some false 'arena'.
Faction warfare
"I LOVE FACTION WARFARE BECAUSE I CAN FLY MY T1 DRAKE (FULLY INSURED) WITH MY CHEAP CLONE (FULLY UP TO DAT NO IMPLANTS) AND FIGHT IN A PVP ZONE OVER SYSTEMS THAT DONT COUNT FOR ANYTHING"
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.05 08:27:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 05/08/2008 08:29:05
Originally by: Le Skunk Faction warfare
"I LOVE FACTION WARFARE BECAUSE I CAN FLY MY T1 DRAKE (FULLY INSURED) WITH MY CHEAP CLONE (FULLY UP TO DAT NO IMPLANTS) AND FIGHT IN A PVP ZONE OVER SYSTEMS THAT DONT COUNT FOR ANYTHING"
0.0 - I LOVE 0.0 BECAUSE I CAN BLOB IN A FULLY INSURED BATTLESHIP WITH MY CHEAP CLONE AND FIGHT OVER A POS THAT DOESN'T COUNT FOR ANYTHING
(because in both cases it just changes this little arbitrary counter where some feudal landlord is the only one that cares - it's just that one is NPC, the other is some teenager in a basement).
Besides, clearly you've never actually PvPed in an arena-based game, or you'd know how much total rubbish you're talking when making the comparison. Ruze's statement is completely accurate. If you're going to troll, at least do your research beforehand. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2008.08.05 08:36:00 -
[30]
I've got two "hardcore" specializations(you can never guess by my name! ) and then a buttload of smaller ones. Got the drones, the missiles, the minings, the science, the refinings, the markets, the leaderships, the works.
I get very bored very easily if i can't do something "Now for something completely different..." every now and then. Also helps with pesky agents who think it's "funny" or "witty" to tell me go mine 40.000m3 of arcanasteroids in an abaddon
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
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