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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.08.04 23:29:00 -
[31]
Edited by: LaVista Vista on 04/08/2008 23:35:21
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: TamiyaCowboy Jade: i can understand your opinions but surely they should be kept out of public view ?, pilots should look up too the CSM your our voice so ya'll say.
Hey don't blame me if somebody posts chatlogs from in-game channels onto the open forums. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I sometimes swear a lot on our alliance vent too and I'm not taking any responsibility for unauthorized recordings of that either.
Only stuff I'm on record with as chair of the CSM is the meeting text between me saying "meeting go" and "meeting end" and you can read all those chatlogs on jericho public forum at the moment.
As for the stuff in this log - I'm regretting absolutely nothing of the opinions I express as a private eve player relaxing with friends and allies. I pay for my subscription, I play the game between bouts of chairing the CSM and speak freely outside of formal duties as chair - so read, enjoy the drama, and get over it really.
Let me quote the CSM document for you again:
Quote: representatives are not only expected to uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, butshouldalsosetabehaviorstandardforeveryoneelsetofollow.
EDIT:
You may also be interested in re-reading bullet-point 1. and 2. in the terms of service.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.04 23:31:00 -
[32]
oh oh oh here it comes!
aldo, I'm withholding pie from Jade until I cause a scene
Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.04 23:40:00 -
[33]
Cant be much of a surprise after so many other examples of Jade's "personality". Vote against the nano nerf! |
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.08.04 23:52:00 -
[34]
Wow.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.04 23:54:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Esmenet Cant be much of a surprise after so many other examples of Jade's "personality".
One of the problems with keeping up momentum with a good smear campaign is ensuring you've got a steady supply of new material. Presents some problems in my case because they probably need to show I'm scammed billions, provoked a war in middle eastern country or have weapons of mass destruction hidden in my shed at this point or it kinda loses any real shock value.
For those that don't know the backstory btw. My alliance utterly obliterated Davlos' corp "Gilead's Bullet" and alliance "Kimotoro Directive" back in 2006 during a conflict called the "mito war" and he's been a little bitter ever since.
Any long term eve player picks up these bitter stalkers and so the occasional bit of forum drama is very much expected. Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game might get elected as CSM chair for the inaugural session. Eve is full of little ironies.
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.08.04 23:55:00 -
[36]
This thread is straight out of the Drama Club down at Liza Minelli Jr. High School for the Gender Challenged. As such, I find it to be a refreshing affirmation of my generalized contempt for the bourgeoisie. ___________________________________________
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Selim
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.04 23:56:00 -
[37]
I can't believe people are actually offended by that chatlog.
The thing is, no matter how much I'll ever disagree with Jade, I still have tons of respect for him for one reason: He never fails to rile up so many people and **** so many people off. He's pretty much the biggest troll ever, intended or not. People hate him with such fervor and for long lengths of time, and he doesn't even need to do anything except make a post or chatlog to make the drama engine roar to life.
Can anyone else even claim to approach Jade in terms of how many people have pathological hatreds for them?
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.04 23:56:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game might get elected as CSM chair for the inaugural session. Eve is full of little ironies.
So you're openly admitting to griefing other players as well now?
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Victoria Ehr
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:01:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Victoria Ehr on 05/08/2008 00:04:31
Originally by: LaVista Vista But I think the point is that the CSM(Especially the chairman, since he got the most vote) represents the player base.
That was my point, and others have valid points too, regardless of his vulgarity, if he was trusted enough by "the mob" as he put it, to be voted in then he has some level of trust.
The level of dialogue in that link wasn't much worse than sneak peeks of "insert nation" congressional debates.
I was just surprised, I had no idea Jade Constantine spoke such Minmatar vulgarity, but if he gets the job done that players voted him in for, more power to him. As a CSM i thought they would set examples for the players but once again i am reminded that the most vulgar of a society, are usually the example.
He will get no love from me though, he is the enemy all the same, Gallente loyalist! -------------------------------------------- The path to power is up!
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Tatsue Nuko
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:02:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 05/08/2008 00:04:19 Now now Verone, you know perfectly well the colloquial use of the term "grief" in this game. You also know perfectly well the history that this refers to in this case. You also have enough of a brain to understand that the specific line you quoted was an ironic statement illustrating the perceived position and viewpoint of Davlos as OP for this thread.
Wherefore that last post of yours becomes ludicrously silly and completely unworthy of someone like you, who I actually have some respect for. (Which cannot be said for my position on Davlos, but hey...)
Please Verone, don't drag yourself down there.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:03:00 -
[41]
Like I said in the other thread, I can't speak for Davlos, but the fact you keep bringing up the Mito incident is only proof of your egotistical nature. You have no evidence to suggest that I am upset about the Neocom or anything else, nor Davlos. For shit's sake it has been two years, and I was not remotely affected by your campaign in the area.
Quote: [ 2008.08.03 00:57:39 ] Jade Constantine > both cases kyoko got ****y with us and probably claimed heart condition card to excuse being overly dramatic ... [ 2008.08.03 01:10:35 ] Jade Constantine > yeah Kyoko you were a card that was being played
Who is playing what cards here? Get the hell over it and do your job the right way.
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Jonny Damordred
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:03:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Jade Constantine Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game might get elected as CSM chair for the inaugural session. Eve is full of little ironies.
So you're openly admitting to griefing other players as well now?
And you admit to not griefing, Verone? That's a pretty slippery slope...
Cheers, Jonny D. ------------------------- CEO and Professor of Gunboat Diplomacy |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:04:00 -
[43]
If i remember right, Jade came in a mere 40 or so votes ahead of Hardin, thats what, 0.02% of the subsciption base? maybe 1% of the "Voting Subscription Base"
Thats hardly a clear favourite for the job, the CSM was a farce from the start IMO, but i gave them a fair run.
The election process was a load of junk, having multiple people in the same alliance on the board should never have happened, and its funny how the two people with the most votes from an in character perspective are basically worst enemies.
I'm all for democracy, but it really needs some working upon to make it work with eve's mechanics, because as jade pointed out, certain personal interests overshadow the possible gain from a CSM-Like-Body. The last i checked you needed 5% of the subscription base to force something to be taken to CCP? someone pointed out thats over 300 pages of thread of people ONLY Agreeing needed. "oh sure, let me go get my magical 5-leaf clover while going in a straight line on a unicycle after a few beers."
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:04:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Jade Constantine Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game might get elected as CSM chair for the inaugural session. Eve is full of little ironies.
So you're openly admitting to griefing other players as well now?
Aren't you supposed to be a pirate or something?
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Kvirie
Caldari Children of the Wind
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:06:00 -
[45]
Originally by: LaVista Vista Edited by: LaVista Vista on 04/08/2008 23:35:21
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: TamiyaCowboy Jade: i can understand your opinions but surely they should be kept out of public view ?, pilots should look up too the CSM your our voice so ya'll say.
Hey don't blame me if somebody posts chatlogs from in-game channels onto the open forums. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I sometimes swear a lot on our alliance vent too and I'm not taking any responsibility for unauthorized recordings of that either.
Only stuff I'm on record with as chair of the CSM is the meeting text between me saying "meeting go" and "meeting end" and you can read all those chatlogs on jericho public forum at the moment.
As for the stuff in this log - I'm regretting absolutely nothing of the opinions I express as a private eve player relaxing with friends and allies. I pay for my subscription, I play the game between bouts of chairing the CSM and speak freely outside of formal duties as chair - so read, enjoy the drama, and get over it really.
Let me quote the CSM document for you again:
Quote: representatives are not only expected to uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, butshouldalsosetabehaviorstandardforeveryoneelsetofollow.
EDIT:
You may also be interested in re-reading bullet-point 1. and 2. in the terms of service.
I was completely amazed Jade was allowed to run given his history, and the fact that there was no way any standard he set for behavior would've been a positive. Not that I care how he acts in an in game channel for a corp made of of people that left SF, but that's just how he always is. Maybe people will realize he's a **** and that his vision is the only vision he will push, or maybe people wont care.
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Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:10:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jade Constantine As for the stuff in this log - I'm regretting absolutely nothing of the opinions I express as a private eve player relaxing with friends and allies. I pay for my subscription, I play the game between bouts of chairing the CSM and speak freely outside of formal duties as chair - so read, enjoy the drama, and get over it really.
(bolding mine)
TBH, this. While LVV makes a good point, I still think that one should retain the right to express themself freely in what is normally thought of as a private environment.
However, I'm sure I will greatly enjoy reading the attached "juicy drama" while I'm supposed to be paying attention in class.
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Kvirie
Caldari Children of the Wind
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:11:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Jade Constantine Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game might get elected as CSM chair for the inaugural session. Eve is full of little ironies.
So you're openly admitting to griefing other players as well now?
His group probably needed a soft target after spending months NPCing in 0.0 and building assets. Why not kill some dying RP alliance and then chest-beat about it? This is Jade afterall.
Besides, keep in mind Jade because some anarchist freedom fighting post-humanist only after failing epically in the north at 0.0 politics.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:11:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Like I said in the other thread, I can't speak for Davlos, but the fact you keep bringing up the Mito incident is only proof of your egotistical nature. You have no evidence to suggest that I am upset about the Neocom or anything else, nor Davlos. For shit's sake it has been two years, and I was not remotely affected by your campaign in the area.
Hey Kyoko its not my fault that you guys are all still bitter about it and have congregated in Veto to continue your annoyances and impotent furies about losing wars in the past. Pretty much everyone in the RP community knows that Davlos went seriously off the rails post Mito and you certainly went pretty funny when you felt that SF had stomped on your pre-written storyline of black rabbits vs Kimotoro. What is amusing though is that most of the eve public won't have any idea about the original foundations and root causes of all this feuding but if people people do a little digging the evidence is all there.
Basically ANY thread like this one needs to be considered in the context of past feuds. Thats eve - thats the single server environment and thats IC politics.
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:16:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Jade Constantine Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game might get elected as CSM chair for the inaugural session. Eve is full of little ironies.
So you're openly admitting to griefing other players as well now?
Aren't you supposed to be a pirate or something?
Piracy is a valid profession, it was highlighted as a selling point on the origial release cover of the game in 2003.
"Griefing someone out of the game" because you don't like them personally wasn't.
Jonny, Tats, I'm not even going to get into an argument with you guys over this. I respect the both of you and you know as well as I do the history between Jade and a large proportion of the RP community purely based on this type of attitude over the years.
As well as that, you both wear a seperate corp ticker to him and have done for some time because of misgivings in the past. You both know as well as I do, along with Jade, that I contacted several people (including Jade, and the people on the other side of the fence) and went out of my way to attempt to come to foster some sort of resolution between them for the sake of the RP community.
At the time, Jade was civil for once but regardless, since the CSM went live and I've shared my opinions, he's turned the same way with me and started launching personal attacks because he doesn't like what I have to say.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:16:00 -
[50]
Exactly my point. You think I'm still bitter about a dispute we had. I'm not. To be clear I voted Serenity for CSM with the intention of voting for you next, but I didn't realize we were only voting for one, not a team. That's what I get for not reading closely.
But I don't like the attitude you've shown as chairman, and as such my past is being used to brush that off, apparently.
And therein lies my problem.
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Tatsue Nuko
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:16:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 05/08/2008 00:25:25
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Like I said in the other thread, I can't speak for Davlos, but the fact you keep bringing up the Mito incident is only proof of your egotistical nature. You have no evidence to suggest that I am upset about the Neocom or anything else, nor Davlos. For shit's sake it has been two years, and I was not remotely affected by your campaign in the area.
Now, I'm not Jade so I can't say anything about how it works for him, but this is how you normally approach the process of investigating someone's hostility to yourself:
1) You identify them in those cases you don't immediately recall who they are. 2) You thereafter identify where you may have had interactions. 3) You look into what those were, and see if there are specific circumstances that point to a specific one of those as the cause of hostility.
In some cases, #3 is pretty easy. Like with Davlos, BEFORE Mitograd there was pretty much zero interaction. AFTER Mitograd he has not overlooked a single opportunity to verbally attack Jade and/or Jade's associates. (To the point of posting some of the most horrible pictures I've ever seen on the net and earning bans for samesaid conduct from a site that pretty much never bans anyone...)
I would think (because it follows the pattern) that the analysis of your own hostility's roots to Jade and/or his associates is similar both in method and in result. Of course it may be erroneous and perhaps there are cases where the uncertainty factor should be more clearly expressed.
But through all I've heard I would say that I wholeheartedly agree with Jade's analysis regarding Davlos and for that matter yourself when it comes to the area of causes for hostility. Whether you've been playing your heart condition or not is something else entirely though since I've no clue about that, but in both yours and Davlos' case Mitograd is the one spot in time where hostility began - from both of you.
So, to summarize:
Bringing up Mito isn't egotistical mechanism. It is observations of where several people went haywire in hatemongering (in Davlos case) or what just appears like bitterness in other cases.
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All of that aside, that chatlog is hilariously funny on so many levels I can't even begin to express them properly.
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EDIT: Oh, and re Jade being abrasive sometimes, definitely. And on Jade sometimes being a bit too abrasive at the wrong time? Oh my god yes.
BUT is that in any way relevant to what he does in the CSM? Nope.
People will say weird shit and do weirder shit still, but we need to remember that in the case of the CSM people were elected based on their campaigns and prior knowledge about their persons - and there really is nothing new about Jade revealed in this, is there?
Hell, it would seem that the greater individual part of players that voted in the CSM elections wanted someone that was like Jade, judging by the fact that in spite of a very wordy campaign amidst a crowd of tl;dr and no lack of prior knowledge about his personality, he was the one that came up with the most support.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:16:00 -
[52]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 05/08/2008 00:20:32
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: TamiyaCowboy Jade: i can understand your opinions but surely they should be kept out of public view ?, pilots should look up too the CSM your our voice so ya'll say.
Hey don't blame me if somebody posts chatlogs from in-game channels onto the open forums. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I sometimes swear a lot on our alliance vent too and I'm not taking any responsibility for unauthorized recordings of that either.
Only stuff I'm on record with as chair of the CSM is the meeting text between me saying "meeting go" and "meeting end" and you can read all those chatlogs on jericho public forum at the moment.
As for the stuff in this log - I'm regretting absolutely nothing of the opinions I express as a private eve player relaxing with friends and allies. I pay for my subscription, I play the game between bouts of chairing the CSM and speak freely outside of formal duties as chair - so read, enjoy the drama, and get over it really.
ah so that's why you didn't want CSM members e-mails and chat logs to be public :P
meh I'm on the fence I don't care for you, I don't hate you. I just care about the CSM.
It's like any political scene, whatever you say out of context will be taken and torn apart and shown to everyone to sway public opinion. Even if it's not for politic reason everything you say will bite you in the ass.
I already can't wait for my election run, people will tear me apart, wooo fun.
Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
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Viper ShizzIe
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:18:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Selim
Can anyone else even claim to approach Jade in terms of how many people have pathological hatreds for them?
Yes.
To be honest, my smack was subpar. Kicking everyone out of the channel that agreed with me just made me carry it on to make Jade look even worse then he already did.
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Reaver One
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:21:00 -
[54]
First let me say that I'm no friend of Jade. The only experience I've had with him is getting dec'd by SF in my noobie militia corp. I got one of them and they failed to scratch me, so guess that'll learn 'em (at least they learned that I keep my safe spots up to date and can run like the wiiiinnnnd).
I didn't vote for him either, so I'm not a friend or ally. Having said that, I think Jade's exactly who he appears to be, and he's a straight shooter most of the time. That's more than I can say for most of the folks jumping on him in this thread. Hypocrisy and exploitation FTL, particularly that LaVista Vista twit.
That's all I've got to say about that.
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Red Thunder
Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:21:00 -
[55]
arghh shock horror!!! people are saying nasty things!!!
/emote pretends to care
Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:22:00 -
[56]
Was this a public channel and if so what business is one mans loathing of another to all of us?
This isn't the mudslinging US, this is about ideology and game improvement for all. Let Veto and Star Fraction wage war ingame if they wish.
I don't care about someones low opinion of someone else. Unless it's deaththreats or conversations about exploits and possibly scams it's really only wasting bandwidth.
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:22:00 -
[57]
Originally by: MotherMoon ah so that's why you didn't want CSM members e-mails and chat logs to be public :P meh I'm on the fence I don't care for you, I don't hate you. I just care about the CSM.
Well its a serious point really. Everyone needs privacy to let off steam. I don't trust people who claim never to get angry - its just not a human trait. We have CSM duties (like the formal meetings) there we have to be professional and behave appropriately - we get judged on that kind of on the record chatlog. But its ridiculous to have paparazzi spooks following people into chat channels and producing chatlogs to try and scandalize the public. Complain about if I was saying that stuff in Jita local by all means, but there is a time and a place and everyone needs a place to relax with friends.
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Samira Melina
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:24:00 -
[58]
My Raven was equipped with the following:
HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I
MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER
LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I
DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES
UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I
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heheheh
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:27:00 -
[59]
get get a drink, stretch your legs and take a breath of fresh air you internet drama queens !!
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.05 00:28:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Verone "Griefing someone out of the game" because you don't like them personally wasn't.
I said we griefed his "corp" out of the game. Once he quit his corp we left him alone. We have no interest in greifing individual players - we do however have a clear and present in-game motive to attack and destroy nationalist corporations and alliances. Try harder Verone this is getting a bit desperate now.
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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