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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:32:00 -
[121]
I will gladly vote for someone who believes that the current war system is being used as a griefing tactic by many in high-sec.
"The greatest offense is no defense."
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:34:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Bacchanalian
Wow. I have even less confidence in the CSM as a body to have a bloody clue about EVE.
Tell me, how am I wrong?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:35:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Jonny Damordred
Originally by: MotherMoon then VOTE NEXT TIME!
I did, and Jade is living up to my expectations with my approval.
Cheers, Jonny D.
Originally by: Ruze I will gladly vote for someone who believes that the current war system is being used as a griefing tactic by many in high-sec.
in fact one copuld take the two above statement as showing the CSM is working as intended. you both have members in the CSM that agree with you.
Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
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Jenna Shame
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:36:00 -
[124]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Bacchanalian Edited by: Bacchanalian on 05/08/2008 03:21:41
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Well, I agree that empire wars aren't griefing...
That is, from my experience and the discussions we had at CSM, not really the case. In some cases, it's definitely true. But in many cases, it's a pay-to-grief mechanic.
Wow. I have even less confidence in the CSM as a body to have a bloody clue about EVE.
then VOTE NEXT TIME!
the CSM are nothing but players like yourself, and as such it's up to you to pick which ones think the way you do. and such give you a rep at CCP. it's all about getting the wishes of the players to CCP. So if you don't like it vote next time for someone that agrees with you.
also don't expect every members of the CSM to agree with your point of view or for the view of one member to represent the views of every other members on the CSM. The whole point is that each member sees a situation differently. So you in fact don't have less confidence in the CSM, you have less confidence in LaVista Vista.
I voted, I abstained.
Why?
Because I don't know these goobers from the next goober. Its a stupid system put in place by a company who couldn't figure out how to properly cover up a rather minor incident and instead allowed it to be completely blown out of proportion, and then wanted to pretend to be hip and different by implementing a feel good committee called the CSM to look like they were 'serious' about corruption.
Give me a break.
EvE is a PvP game, even in empire its a pvp game. You ever sell something below the market average to unload it? Well you are against another player there. Even the more carebear miner PvP's in a sense by trying to get to the rocks first. In a game like this where people have their own styles and advantages you don't give power to a bunch of basically randomly elected officials who are either drawn from the biggest alliances or forum whoring.
The whole thing reeked of 'lame' from the day CCP announced it.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:40:00 -
[125]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Bacchanalian
Wow. I have even less confidence in the CSM as a body to have a bloody clue about EVE.
Tell me, how am I wrong?
lavista your wrong and your right. it all depends on what they see eve has and want it to become. it's way we had elections is why you didn't get 100% of the votes.
please don't start an argument that accounts to nothing other than a something like a liberal arguing with a republican over oil prices or taxes. Some of the community agrees with part of the CSM the rest agrees with the rest of the community. Or in fact in eve it can be slipt between many players with many views of the game and it's issues.
you should get used to the people your serving thinking your wrong because in fact that is your job to agree with some of the community and disagree with the rest.
/or did you honestly post your comment expecting not a single post disagreeing with you?
Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:42:00 -
[126]
Originally by: MotherMoon
you should get used to the people your serving thinking your wrong because in fact that is your job to agree with some of the community and disagree with the rest.
/or did you honestly post your comment expecting not a single post disagreeing with you?
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm very well aware that we will never all agree. Despite the fact I rarely agree with Verone on CSM matters, I can see his view.
But the comment I quoted was a quite direct shot towards CSM based on my thoughts on war mechanics. I understand that it's a matter of perspective. But I'm interested in hearing how he perceives this mechanic.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:43:00 -
[127]
Quote: Because I don't know these goobers from the next goober. Its a stupid system put in place by a company who couldn't figure out how to properly cover up a rather minor incident and instead allowed it to be completely blown out of proportion, and then wanted to pretend to be hip and different by implementing a feel good committee called the CSM to look like they were 'serious' about corruption.
And if another isse came up again the CSM would now be in place to handle it. The CSM was never put in palce to deal with a n issue 2 years old. they promised us, the players there would be a new way to take care of future issues with internal CCP issues.
and while it might not seem like it, it's doing it's job. If something comes up the people we elect will go to iceland and ***** out CCP and demand the full story. CCP can't deal with 200,000 people, however, dealing with 7 angry players representing the players is much easier to handle... sort of :P
Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
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Benilopax
Gallente Pulsar Combat Supplies Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:43:00 -
[128]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Bacchanalian
Wow. I have even less confidence in the CSM as a body to have a bloody clue about EVE.
Tell me, how am I wrong?
lavista your wrong and your right. it all depends on what they see eve has and want it to become. it's way we had elections is why you didn't get 100% of the votes.
please don't start an argument that accounts to nothing other than a something like a liberal arguing with a republican over oil prices or taxes. Some of the community agrees with part of the CSM the rest agrees with the rest of the community. Or in fact in eve it can be slipt between many players with many views of the game and it's issues.
you should get used to the people your serving thinking your wrong because in fact that is your job to agree with some of the community and disagree with the rest.
/or did you honestly post your comment expecting not a single post disagreeing with you?
I think he was saying that it is hard, if not impossible, for someone to argue that war decs can in no way be used for griefing.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:44:00 -
[129]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: MotherMoon
you should get used to the people your serving thinking your wrong because in fact that is your job to agree with some of the community and disagree with the rest.
/or did you honestly post your comment expecting not a single post disagreeing with you?
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm very well aware that we will never all agree. Despite the fact I rarely agree with Verone on CSM matters, I can see his view.
But the comment I quoted was a quite direct shot towards CSM based on my thoughts on war mechanics. I understand that it's a matter of perspective. But I'm interested in hearing how he perceives this mechanic.
ah you came off as why did he think YOUR wrong, when in fact you wanted to know what his views were, which is what starts these crazy screaming matches.
Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:49:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Jonny Damordred
Originally by: MotherMoon then VOTE NEXT TIME!
I did, and Jade is living up to my expectations with my approval.
Cheers, Jonny D.
Thats exactly the reason I didn't vote. Why bother when no matter who you elect they will all just turn into grandstanders on a power trip. Remember guys these are just ordinary people who play a video game targeted at greifers and also are quite vocal on the forums (which should already say scads) who have zero real life experiance in running a proper council. Add free targeted forum sections to stroke the inner e-peen with the official backing of CCP and you will 100% get the current situation every single time a new election comes around. This is all just a funny greifer game to them and all of us really and it will never ever change. Though please astonish me and prove me wrong if you wish.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:50:00 -
[131]
Originally by: MotherMoon
ah you came off as why did he think YOUR wrong, when in fact you wanted to know what his views were, which is what starts these crazy screaming matches.
Yeah, it's my bad. I arrived in the United States of America yesterday. So jet-lag is killing me atm
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:54:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Jonny Damordred
Originally by: MotherMoon then VOTE NEXT TIME!
I did, and Jade is living up to my expectations with my approval.
Cheers, Jonny D.
Thats exactly the reason I didn't vote. Why bother when no matter who you elect they will all just turn into grandstanders on a power trip. Remember guys these are just ordinary people who play a video game targeted at greifers and also are quite vocal on the forums (which should already say scads) who have zero real life experiance in running a proper council. Add free targeted forum sections to stroke the inner e-peen with the official backing of CCP and you will 100% get the current situation every single time a new election comes around. This is all just a funny greifer game to them and all of us really and it will never ever change. Though please astonish me and prove me wrong if you wish.
you better believe I will.
but honestly the only powertrips I've seen jade have are unrelated to the CSM and in fact more related to her in game activities. and hasn't jade always powertriped like this? I don't see how getting elected changed anything :P
I know what I'm doing when it comes to holding a meeting, and I'm sure other players do to. In fact the current Cm members are learning through trial and error.
All you have to do is seperate your job and your gaming. To which end like I said you'll see me running for CSM next election but not as mothermoon yarr but as an uneventful alt that doesn't have any sort of e-peen to powertrip on.
Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
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Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Ledoux Holdings
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:55:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Jade Constantine We cannot actually destroy characters finally. We can destroy corporations (by forcing all their members to leave).
I would argue that it's not really possible to force people to quit their corporation. Of course, when you put them under enough pressure and beat their to fleets jelly enough times, morale goes to hell, people start bickering and people start choosing to leave. With strong, inspiring and/or intelligent leadership and committed members, the corporation survives and rebuilds. But whatever happens is purely up to the members of the corp, not their enemies. If a corporation or alliance disbands when faced by an all-out attack by a superior enemy, it didn't deserve to survive in the first place.
Blaming Star Fraction for the dissolution of the Kimotoro Directive is like blaming Goonswarm/Red Alliance/Tau Ceti Federation (et cetera) for the destruction of Lotka Volterra or RISE. Sure, the Stimulus (get it?) was provided by the aggressor, but the blame can only be laid on those who voluntarily quit or disband their corporation or alliance.
But back on topic: Even if the the CSM members were totally impartial, completely reasonable and never said or did anything that offended anyone ... well, there's probably only two or people like that who play Eve in the first place, so there's one roadblock. But even if we just expected people to act like that WHILE a member of the CSM, something tells me that the sort of people who'd still want the job would be exactly the kind of people who should never actually have it. _
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:56:00 -
[134]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: MotherMoon
ah you came off as why did he think YOUR wrong, when in fact you wanted to know what his views were, which is what starts these crazy screaming matches.
Yeah, it's my bad. I arrived in the United States of America yesterday. So jet-lag is killing me atm
politics suck huh?
:P
Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:58:00 -
[135]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Jonny Damordred
Originally by: MotherMoon then VOTE NEXT TIME!
I did, and Jade is living up to my expectations with my approval.
Cheers, Jonny D.
Thats exactly the reason I didn't vote. Why bother when no matter who you elect they will all just turn into grandstanders on a power trip. Remember guys these are just ordinary people who play a video game targeted at greifers and also are quite vocal on the forums (which should already say scads) who have zero real life experiance in running a proper council. Add free targeted forum sections to stroke the inner e-peen with the official backing of CCP and you will 100% get the current situation every single time a new election comes around. This is all just a funny greifer game to them and all of us really and it will never ever change. Though please astonish me and prove me wrong if you wish.
you better believe I will.
but honestly the only powertrips I've seen jade have are unrelated to the CSM and in fact more related to her in game activities. and hasn't jade always powertriped like this? I don't see how getting elected changed anything :P
Jade is now far more vocal outside of CAOD now, which is reason enough for the CSM to go bye-bye.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:59:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Jade is now far more vocal outside of CAOD now, which is reason enough for the CSM to go bye-bye.
lol how about instead just pass that rle that the players can vote out a CSM member? I see no reason for the whole CSM to go.
Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
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Jonny Damordred
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.08.05 04:00:00 -
[137]
Originally by: MotherMoon lol how about instead just pass that rle that the players can vote out a CSM member? I see no reason for the whole CSM to go.
Dumb idea. It would make the CSM even more political than it already is.
Cheers, Jonny D. ------------------------- CEO and Professor of Gunboat Diplomacy |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.08.05 04:02:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Jonny Damordred
Originally by: MotherMoon lol how about instead just pass that rle that the players can vote out a CSM member? I see no reason for the whole CSM to go.
Dumb idea. It would make the CSM even more political than it already is.
Cheers, Jonny D.
I'm not saying I agree just that I don't understand how not liking one member of the CSM makes him want the whole CSM to go.
oh well not my place to say. I have no opinion on the subject in that case.
Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.08.05 04:03:00 -
[139]
Originally by: MotherMoon All you have to do is seperate your job and your gaming. To which end like I said you'll see me running for CSM next election but not as mothermoon yarr but as an uneventful alt that doesn't have any sort of e-peen to powertrip on.
What a most excellent idea. Next vote all CSM candidates should be newb alts in npc corps. That way the stance they take is not connected in any way with forum noteriety or corp affiliation. Want to get elected? Prove yourself a valid debater seperate from your ingame and forum identity. Good thinking mothermoon.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.08.05 04:27:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: MotherMoon All you have to do is seperate your job and your gaming. To which end like I said you'll see me running for CSM next election but not as mothermoon yarr but as an uneventful alt that doesn't have any sort of e-peen to powertrip on.
What a most excellent idea. Next vote all CSM candidates should be newb alts in npc corps. That way the stance they take is not connected in any way with forum noteriety or corp affiliation. Want to get elected? Prove yourself a valid debater seperate from your ingame and forum identity. Good thinking mothermoon.
in fact if we can get enough people running with noob alts next election and enough people to vote for them, we could get this through and change it ourselves, as players.
hell I'm sure it can be done.
Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
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Bacchanalian
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.08.05 04:46:00 -
[141]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Bacchanalian Edited by: Bacchanalian on 05/08/2008 03:21:41
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Well, I agree that empire wars aren't griefing...
That is, from my experience and the discussions we had at CSM, not really the case. In some cases, it's definitely true. But in many cases, it's a pay-to-grief mechanic.
Wow. I have even less confidence in the CSM as a body to have a bloody clue about EVE.
then VOTE NEXT TIME!
the CSM are nothing but players like yourself, and as such it's up to you to pick which ones think the way you do. and such give you a rep at CCP. it's all about getting the wishes of the players to CCP. So if you don't like it vote next time for someone that agrees with you.
also don't expect every members of the CSM to agree with your point of view or for the view of one member to represent the views of every other members on the CSM. The whole point is that each member sees a situation differently. So you in fact don't have less confidence in the CSM, you have less confidence in LaVista Vista.
I did. I voted for Jade with all 4 of my accounts, and he's so far the only one to impress me in the least with his understanding of EVE. Ankasomethingorother is starting to show slivers of promise as well.
War declarations are a mechanism for consequences in EVE. If you remove in-game consequences for in-game actions in EVE, you remove the key difference between it and every other MMO on the market. ____________________ GM Sunshine > oops Neurotica > Hate to see a GM in your gang say 'oops'
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.05 05:08:00 -
[142]
What Jade says in some channel I couldn't really care about.
What I DO care about is the way he publicly deals with people who don't share his views. He should IMO respond in a reasonable manner to people from all angles; not just the people who support his agenda whilst he deems the opinions he dosen't like as worthless. Like how he responds to people who support the nano nerf, or just people he dosen't like in general. Needs less attitude IMO but I guess that's just the way Jade communicates
Not particually constructive in the grand scheme of things. Not that I ever expected the CSM was anything but a publicity stunt anyway. ...
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Grath Telkin
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.05 05:24:00 -
[143]
Did i read right that you actually voted DOWN bringing up the removal of local?
WTF is wrong with you?
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Taradis
Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.05 05:49:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Gone'Postal And people VOTED for him ?
Originally by: Viper Because you're a ****ing megalomanical idiot, with the common sense of an electrocuted hamster
LMFAO.
never seen an electrocuted hamster but I would imagine it would be quite funny wonder if they have one on joecartoon.com
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Shoukei
Caldari Boobs Ahoy
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Posted - 2008.08.05 05:51:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Grath Telkin Did i read right that you actually voted DOWN bringing up the removal of local?
WTF is wrong with you?
If nothing else, this chat log shows what alliances consist of true carebears.
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Veldya
Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.08.05 06:09:00 -
[146]
CSM is just a powerless circle jerk, nothing will be achieved by them. Probably THE most boring element of EVE, wake me up when a CSM actually achieves something worthy of a thread.
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