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Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.08.15 16:57:00 -
[61]
Ah, yes ... the rich, the poor.
For now, I'll leave the economic arguments to those who are better educated in the ways of the almighty ISK. There's another angle to this matter, and it is cultural.
The Caldari believe in the power of traditional structures, such as family and community. A Caldari wage-earner is expected to support others, and this pattern of aiding and supporting one's own forms, in effect, the social safety net the Gallente keep insisting the State doesn't have. It's a bit inconsistent, of course, and does lead to a certain amount of hardship, but the Caldari simply consider traditional society, which has, after all, served in this role for generation upon generation, extending back into the misty depths of history, to serve better overall than some governmental, top-down, ordered-from-on-high redistribution of wealth.
People within the State have responsibilities to others before themselves: to their families, to their communities, to their worlds, to the State. It is when these responsibilities are forgotten that we get such phenomena as megacorporate abuse of power-- and it is when the backlash occurs that we get such phenomena as Heth.
It's true: the megacorporations were abusing the Caldari people, advancing their own interests at the cost of the State. Now the Caldari have someone in charge who at least appears to place State interests first (he'd better; he's gotten himself into a bad spot if he's actually out for himself). This isn't to say anything about his quality as a leader. However, I do find the notion that the Caldari "oppressed" classes would choose to live and work just like the Gallente, given the chance ... funny.
The people were the ones who, flexing their political muscle, put Heth in charge. You forget this at your peril.
Karanth:
The advantages of a strong traditional culture are, perhaps, difficult for those who cheerfully cast tradition aside to see. "This is the way things have always been done" may itself be a poor argument for doing things a certain way, but what this argument really says is, "I don't know why we do things this way." There is pretty much invariably more to it. Sometimes the reasons behind the tradition are no longer valid. Sometimes, however, the reasons, though non-obvious, are profoundly important.
Since you bring up formal tea, let's take that as an example. To you, perhaps, tea is a beverage; for us ... well, calling it an "experience" goes perhaps too far. It may be an "experience" for an appreciative Gallentean tourist, but for us it's the very formalism, the pattern and simplicity of the thing, that gives it use and meaning.
It is always the same-- simple, peaceful, beautiful, an island of calm in a universe of continual struggle. It's a chance to let go of life's distractions, and simply enjoy being.
Now, when I land in a Gallente station, I immediately feel as though I'm under assault. The scrolling advertisements for pleasure hubs and the scantily-clad holographic images start before I even unplug from my pod. It doesn't seem as though there's any sense of a time and a place for this or that; if a social boundary exists, it seems to be your cultural duty to cross it.
It's distracting, intensely, relentlessly distracting. I'd say that I don't know how you find peace in your lives, only ... well, I don't really think you ever do. You're so continually distracted that you don't even realize how distracted you are.
Considering their cultural background, I don't know how the Intaki can stand it.
I know that you Gallente enjoy the idea that you're the most free-spirited and fun-loving of peoples, and perhaps that's true. But it seems to me that, in the process of doing what you think will make you feel good, you've lost track of how to appreciate your lives.
This is a very Caldari perspective, I know, but from this same perspective ... you seem a very sad people to me.
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Veron Daerth
Amarr
Blood Meridian
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Posted - 2008.08.15 20:30:00 -
[62]
I wasnt referring to the poor in any one empire being socially or politically better off than any other. What I was referring to was that "poorness" is relative.
Example1. Fred is a Federation citizen. He is a janitor. He has recieved a high school education. He makes approximately 10,000 isk a year after taxes and fee's. He has a smallish apartment, in moderately bad condition, in a very run down neighborhood. He expends about 6000 isk a year on survival necessities (Food, clothing, housing, sanitary necessities), we will ignore transportation to and from work and assume he uses public transit and that it is free. This leaves approximately 4000 isk of his yearly income to spend on luxuries, savings (lets say he is smart and saves what he can so as to have a retirement some day), medical and marginal expenditures. He is considered to be "poor" and is effectively locked into that condition due to several factors.
His lack of formal education limits what he can do; in order to get a better job, he needs more education, in order to get that education, he needs money to pay for it, and in order to get the money, he needs a better job or a second job. A second job limits the time he can spend learning and attending class, and a better job needs more education. There are of course other factors, but I'll keep this as simple as possible.
Example2. Bob is Matari. He has the same job that Fred has and the same conditions apply (schooling, housing, etc.) The difference is that Bob is firstly an illegal immigrant to the Federation, and is therefore paid much less, usually about 2/3 of what a legal citizen makes, if that.
So, in order to make ends meet, Bob lives in a much cheaper (worse) apartment than Fred does and shares it with 4 other men, also illegal immigrants, and spends even less on survival necessities than Fred does. He eats less overall, eats less well, has less for luxuries, etc. Bob also does what many illegal immigrants do, sends money home to his family, back on Matar. This cuts into his total fiscal assets. He makes up for it by sharing the outlay (rent, food, utilities etc) with his roommates. The trade off is cramped, often substandard quarters, less food, clothing, etc than Fred, and almost no luxuries.
Both Fred and Bob are "poor" but from a totally economic standpoint, Fred is better off than Bob. Fred has better access to necessary things like food and housing and a better quality of those things.
Bob may also be living in quarters that, while substandard and wretched by Federation standards, is normal or even slightly better than what he could expect to be living in if he occupied the same job and position in Matari space.
From the standpoint of "I have better access to things and better quality things than you do", Fred is also better off then Bob.
You can make the statement, therefore, that Fred is better off than Bob with a high degree of accuracy, even though both occupy the social class defined as "poor". Keep in mind that this is from a completely economic standpoint. It is also to be considered that those with more fiscal assets also experience less stress and its health related issues then those that do not. They do not have to worry about homelessness, unemployment, medical care, starvation, etc. This tends to also affect their marital lives, social lives, and the general quality of life they and their spouses and offspring have.
((Really, I am not sure about what the actual economic conditions in the Federation and the Republic are like on the ground, though there is almost nothing a good war cannot fix, economy wise. I do remember a news report saying that many many many Matari were flocking to the Federation in order to find work due to the moribund Matari economy, and something about the Federation expanding the number of work visa's and immigration permits accordingly, though the number of workers petitioning for entry would still outstrip available visa's. ))
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Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.08.16 03:41:00 -
[63]
Jenneth-guri always has good insight into the Caldari mindset.
((the general discussion is an interesting one and draws some RL parallels as we try to fill in details of how the various cultures and nations of the cluster operate))
 Founder Heiian Society |
Sky Grunthor
Minmatar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.16 04:07:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Sky Grunthor on 16/08/2008 04:10:00
Edited by: Sky Grunthor on 16/08/2008 04:09:18
Fred applies for and is granted a loan and uses that money to fund his education. He gets a better job, pays off the loan and lives among the middling wealthy classes.
Fred discovers music and trains himself in an instriment. Writes his own song and in his passion performs them for people in bars. He is discovered and goes on to live among the wealthy and has many luxuries.
Fred has ideas that float around in his head. One of those ideas is for a quafe cup warmer. He prototypes that idea, finds investors and sells the quafe cup holders to interested parties.. He becomes rich.
Fred works hard, has passion, is rewarded at the job that he was given due to his current education level. The employer sees value and reward in helping fred to better himself so subsidies further education. He gets promotions and raises and moves up within the company based on his past performance, ambition and goals. he winds up the CEO of a multi-trillion isk company and flies around in an opus luxury ship increasing his own and his companies wealth and opportunity.
No person is locked in their station. They may be hampered by it but the only true cage in a free society is the one you allow yourself to be caught in... the one you believe is around you.
Of course with all of these examples it could of gone the other direction... but the person who pursues creates the opportunity for success. The person who maintains... simply waits for fortune to make or break them.
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Search: Sky Grunthor |
Faraelle Brightman
Gallente
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2008.08.16 04:21:00 -
[65]
We interupt this fine sociopolitical debate to interject:
Warm Quafe? Blarrgh...
Would also point out fairly recent news articles mentioning the Gallente job market prior to the war (even the Matari immigrants aren't filling all the need) and the boom of grants and funds that make is very easy to get into advanced schools here.
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