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Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.03.20 23:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Some background, I was somewhat interested in EVE back in the early days based on the spaceship designs. I saw the Naglfar and drew a space scene in my art class the next day, based on that design. I just never thought I'd be abel to play it on my old computer, so back in 2003-2005, it wasn't on my To Play list.
But one day I was at a coworker's house and he had EVE running on a beefy rig with a huge monitor, and I asked him about it. He told me about the in-game economy, the scale, the corporations, the fact that things that are considered griefing in other games are defended by the developers as essential parts of the experience. But the big question I wanted to know was whether you could walk around your ship's interiors. I REALLY wanted to know that. He said "No, but they're making an expansion that will let you walk around your captain's quarters".
Well, Crucible is out, and it's several versions in. And I played the trial shortly after I had this conversation with my coworker, but I dropped it after a few hours of play. It felt too... Impersonal.
Cut to three days ago. I am browsing the internet, and someone posts a screenshot of their character in the captain's quarters on Reddit. I'm intrigued.
Then I decided to give the game a try again. Bought some gametime the day before yesterday.
Immediately I got into the captain's quarters. I tried walking into the mirror before I realized that it wasn't a corridor. I turned around, went out to my ship, and flipped out. It's gorgeous. I've got the little holograms with "Fitting" and "Cargohold" and such on it, I've got the TV and couch, It's awesome.
Then I noticed another door. The one to the rest of the station. I ran over to it (Haha) and clicked the panel.
Closed for decontamination or whatever. Right, because the stations aren't done yet.
Well, I can say that I'm much happier that I have a proper avatar and that the amazing character creator isn't just for my Portrait anymore, but I NEED to walk around the station.
And after that? I need to walk around and customize my ship's interior. You guys don't understand, I -NEED- it. It's the thing that will make me a life-long EVE player, I can say that now. I don't want to be playing with spaceship toys in the backyard like EVE currently feels like, I want to be a ship captain. And part of being a captain is being on the ship, seeing out the viewport.
Sorry for the ramble, but other people must feel the same. EVE has so much promise. This could be THE GAME. It just needs to let us romantics life out our fantasies in this particular way. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1025
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Posted - 2012.03.20 23:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:THE GAME.
goddamnit. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Borun Tal
Border Zone Combat
61
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it... |
Xenophon Zateki
Vetrox Technologies
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
It would be nice, yes.
But only if the rest of the game, what EVE has been for almost a decade, is still updated and improved alongside it.
A full-blown space RPG would be nice, but the core of EVE needs to come first. |
Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
55
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Posted - 2012.03.21 00:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Must respectfully disagree with you op. I feel pretty much the exact opposite. |
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
358
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
The problem with walking around in your ship is that your avatar doesn't actually walk around in the ship "off-screen." You're in a POD filled with goo the entire time.
Fly Safe, Die Hard
|
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.03.21 00:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Borun Tal wrote:Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it... It's about the personal feeling that having a human there gives it. Without having an actual person in there, I'm just imagining one there. It's the "Toy spaceships in the backyard" feeling I mentioned.
Meryl SinGarda wrote:The problem with walking around in your ship is that your avatar doesn't actually walk around in the ship "off-screen." You're in a POD filled with goo the entire time.
Hmm. I didn't know that. Well that changes my perspective of the ship thing then.
But the station still applies. I need to feel a connection with my character. |
Fishmaskle
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
I have to agree while I want more of the core eve game improved and whatnot, I too would love to be able to walk in my own ship at least. Each ship having a unique style and design with at least some personalization (for yourself only until whatever they decide to do for WiS. It would sort of be a mix of just CQ, but hopefully a little bigger since it would be nice to check out parts of the ship.
Overall usefulness would be nill from the start, but it could be used to make autopiloting long boring destinations a little more "scenic".
Now before anyone cries that players will spend all their time in their ships, well for those that want to shoot... Won't this be a good thing since it will force players to undock to enjoy it? You could click a quick button (just like CQ/Spinning) to get right back into the pilot seat, but they have to still be a bit alert. ;) If I helped you out, Technical Issue,-áenemy gank, popped your poor fit,-áhit the "Like" button. |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
123
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Uninstall and never look back then.
They will never be anything remotely meaningful done in stations. The entire engine, its entire team exists solely to make the other vampire game which is years off for release. We are just the alpha testers for it.
|
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
558
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Meryl SinGarda wrote:The problem with walking around in your ship is that your avatar doesn't actually walk around in the ship "off-screen." You're in a POD filled with goo the entire time.
Not empty quoting.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
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Klown Walk
Black Rebel Rifter Club
48
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
You are playing the wrong game. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Klown Walk wrote:You are playing the wrong game. What a useful and insightful comment.
If I want to play a game exactly like EVE in every way except that I have the option to walk around the inside of my ship if I want, what game do I choose? |
Haoibuni
League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Please tell me the Op is taking the peace |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Haoibuni wrote:Please tell me the Op is taking the peace
"Taking the peace"? Not familiar with that euphemism. |
Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
228
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Get a POS. It's like a set of captains quarters for your ships. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |
Ai Shun
394
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Hmm. I didn't know that. Well that changes my perspective of the ship thing then.
But the station still applies. I need to feel a connection with my character.
I would strongly recommend that you read the backstory and lore of EVE Online so you understand what position a capsuleer fulfills. Then, when you understand the EVE Universe, read this thread on Walking in Stations. You can skip through the dev posts to see what they are up to at the moment.
You will have to put your World of Warcraft / Rift / Everquest / avatar mindset aside for a while and truely consider a capsuleer from an EVE Online perspective if you intend to stick around. CCP made the mistake of releasing CQ before it was even close to ready and now the concept is suffering because of that. But, despite having a team working on it, it looks like it will be a long time before we see anything useful from it.
Anyway, read the lore, read the thread. There is a lot of useful information to help with EVE in there.
Quote:If I want to play a game exactly like EVE in every way except that I have the option to walk around the inside of my ship if I want, what game do I choose?
None that I know of. But then, EVE isn't there yet either so he actually makes a good point. And creating another forum thread on the same topic, diluting the value of the thread dedicated to it is not helping. |
Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate EVE Animal Control
37
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Klown Walk wrote:You are playing the wrong game. What a useful and insightful comment. If I want to play a game exactly like EVE in every way except that I have the option to walk around the inside of my ship if I want, what game do I choose?
There isn't one obviously. But seriously, if you find walking around looking at your avatar exciting and that has attracted you to eve, I fear that you will find the rest of the game horribly disappointing. I hope that you don't, but you probably will. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Klown Walk wrote:You are playing the wrong game. What a useful and insightful comment. If I want to play a game exactly like EVE in every way except that I have the option to walk around the inside of my ship if I want, what game do I choose? There isn't one obviously. But seriously, if you find walking around looking at your avatar exciting and that has attracted you to eve, I fear that you will find the rest of the game horribly disappointing. I hope that you don't, but you probably will. Either my post didn't explain this very well or you didn't read my whole post.
I was not attracted to Eve because I wanted to walk around in stations and ships. I was attracted to EVE becasue I wanted to walk in stations while having everything else that EVE offered.
I don't want the game to change fundamentally, here, I want it to have a completely optional side-feature for people like me who love the EVE universe and want to feel even closer to it.
I understand what the universe is about, I think. If it weren't for the game's economy, I'd hardly be interested. |
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg
1-800-FUBAR
36
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Personally i would love it if you could walk around your own ship. although judging by the modding that happened with the walking in stations client. i would sit in the deepest part of nullsec cloaked up and play Dust on the main screen of my cockpit and never go back to civilization. |
Korsiri
Mousetrap Building Inc.
17
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Rath Kelbore wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Klown Walk wrote:You are playing the wrong game. What a useful and insightful comment. If I want to play a game exactly like EVE in every way except that I have the option to walk around the inside of my ship if I want, what game do I choose? There isn't one obviously. But seriously, if you find walking around looking at your avatar exciting and that has attracted you to eve, I fear that you will find the rest of the game horribly disappointing. I hope that you don't, but you probably will. Either my post didn't explain this very well or you didn't read my whole post. I was not attracted to Eve because I wanted to walk around in stations and ships. I was attracted to EVE becasue I wanted to walk in stations while having everything else that EVE offered. I don't want the game to change fundamentally, here, I want it to have a completely optional side-feature for people like me who love the EVE universe and want to feel even closer to it. I'd only argue for this feature if CCP were to manage to develop it without it effecting the rest of development, or after they gave players what they want (More ships, improvements to ships, etc.) I understand what the universe is about, I think. If it weren't for the game's economy, I'd hardly be interested.
I admit that I tend to prefer games with avatars. Having a badass looking ship helps a lot with getting over that however. Seriously, it's how I learned to enjoy the combat etc. I'd still like to see WiS. Yes, I am a girl, maybe it's a girl thing I dunno.
The idea of reading the lore and backstory is very good however. It's really well done and lots of good reads out there.
Maybe with (when) dust comes out, there'll be more 'flesh' put to the whole WiS world as well.
On the other hand then you'd have to worry about getting mugged in a dark station alley, your ship codes stolen, waking up in your clone :P Which is what I tend to think when I think "Oh boy we'll finally be able to walk in stations" lol |
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Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 01:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:
None that I know of. But then, EVE isn't there yet either so he actually makes a good point. And creating another forum thread on the same topic, diluting the value of the thread dedicated to it is not helping.
I actually did try searching some to try to find a topic on this. But the problem is that I had no clue what search terms to use. I didn't know the "WiS" acronym until now, so I tried a few search strings first. They just weren't helpful. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1947
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 01:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
lol roleplayers The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
455
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 01:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
I, too, enjoy signing up for games that don't have the gameplay I want so I can tell everyone on their forums how much better the game would be if they only changed it in a significant way that no one but me wants. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 01:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:I, too, enjoy signing up for games that don't have the gameplay I want so I can tell everyone on their forums how much better the game would be if they only changed it in a significant way that no one but me wants.
Thank you for your insightful and accurate comment.
A+, would read again.
So, explain to me what is wrong with joining a game, liking it more than I first did because a feature was added, wishing it had more of this particular feature, and then talking about how much more I would like it if it had that feature expanded on?
And how do you justify the statement that "No one but me wants it", when clearly people both in this thread and in others say that they still want it?
I mean, it seems clear to me that you are the only one that DOESN'T want it. So, you should just leave this thread, since you are the only one that doesn't want this feature.
Ladie Harlot wrote:lol roleplayers
lol its an mmoRPG |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
466
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 01:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Klown Walk wrote:You are playing the wrong game. What a useful and insightful comment. If I want to play a game exactly like EVE in every way except that I have the option to walk around the inside of my ship if I want, what game do I choose?
And which game do I play, if I want the in-space PvP-oriented game I joined back in the day? Where combat pilots and industrialists in many ways had to cooperate, rather than being separated entities? Where people would stay and fight rather than run? Where a blob was five players? Where t1 frigates and cruisers were your standard fleet setup, even tho I'd have battleship 5, it just simply was too damn expensive to fly them.. etc.
TL;DR we don't always get what we want, and he's right you know, you're playing the wrong game. This game is about in-space combat, and even in-station PvPers (market, industrailists) would not have any game if it wasn't for the pilots out there.
WiS was presented back in the day as a social interaciton platform. Not a bling bling for newcomers who don't get the game. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
456
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 01:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
I've got 20% fired staff that says you're both wrong and stupid. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
113
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 01:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:KrakizBad wrote:I, too, enjoy signing up for games that don't have the gameplay I want so I can tell everyone on their forums how much better the game would be if they only changed it in a significant way that no one but me wants. Thank you for your insightful and accurate comment. A+, would read again. So, explain to me what is wrong with joining a game, liking it more than I first did because a feature was added, wishing it had more of this particular feature, and then talking about how much more I would like it if it had that feature expanded on? And how do you justify the statement that "No one but me wants it", when clearly people both in this thread and in others say that they still want it? I mean, it seems clear to me that you are the only one that DOESN'T want it. So, you should just leave this thread, since you are the only one that doesn't want this feature. Ladie Harlot wrote:lol roleplayers lol its an mmo RPG
Ignore Goon Jr. He will try to derail your thread, given the chance.
WiS brings a new dimension to EVE that breaks the whole blow stuff up in space stigma and does damage to the Drake/ Maelstom, blob influence on development. They are skeerd.
nano edit: See? He is already at it with the personal attacks. Stupid, dumb, etc. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
104
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
I can feel for the OP. *grope However It is internet spaceships. While avatars are a nitch toy by pilot standards, the core of the game is still interacting with others. You have the average player that may only care about interaction to the extent of blowing up the beloved property of others and could care less about the individual you're are crushing. Others would indeed like a personal relationship with those around them at a more base, almost human, level rather then bumping hulls. Also gives a sense of scale to the universe you play in relation to the avatar. I think many still love the idea of avatars, yet the initial introduction I think we all agree was a disaster that poisoned the idea of leaving ships afterward. I think EVE should be unconstrained to such a trivial titles as "internet spaceships". It should be EVE the internet universe. Dieing and killing everywhere should be fun. |
Jovan Geldon
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
388
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Congrats CCP, you found the one person who likes the Captain's Quarters, all your months of neglecting core gameplay to work on a small room with a TV and a locked door has been justified |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
Misanth wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Klown Walk wrote:You are playing the wrong game.[/quote What a useful and insightful comment.
If I want to play a game exactly like EVE in every way except that I have the option to walk around the inside of my ship if I want, what game do I choose? And which game do I play, if I want the in-space PvP-oriented game I joined back in the day? Where combat pilots and industrialists in many ways had to cooperate, rather than being separated entities? Where people would stay and fight rather than run? Where a blob was five players? Where t1 frigates and cruisers were your standard fleet setup, even though I'd have battleship 5, it just simply was too damn expensive to fly them.. etc. TL;DR we don't always get what we want, and he's right you know, you're playing the wrong game. This game is about in-space combat, and even in-station PvPers (market, industrailists) would not have any game if it wasn't for the pilots out there WiS was presented back in the day as a social interaciton platform. Not a bling bling for newcomers who don't get the game. You know the difference between my wish and yours? Yours would require fundamental changes to the game. Mine wouldn't. If I had my way, everything that can be accomplished in the Avatar-based WiS environment could be accomplished outside of that environment. So why are you so upset that I want the feature? I want an avatar cantina, you could have a chatroom that integrated with the cantina. So stop whining. [quote=Jovan Geldon]Congrats CCP, you found the one person who likes the Captain's Quarters, all your months of neglecting core gameplay to work on a small room with a TV and a locked door has been justified
Well I think I misrepresented my opinion of it. Far from "Liking it", I found it to be an enjoyable distraction for a moment, and the possibility of seeing my character outside of a static portrait makes me feel a bit more like I'm playing a game with actual people rather than backyard spaceship toys, but it is clearly a unfinished prototype rather than a full feature as it was advertised.
I want walking in stations, not walking in a teeny prison cell. |
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Shogun Archer
21
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Posted - 2012.03.21 02:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
I don't know... I just kinda picture the OP sitting on his spaceship toilet inside his spaceship, relaxing, maybe reading some Reader's Digest...
Next thing you know, the ship alarm sounds, he scrambles to hop up from the potty. Reader's digest goes flying to the floor as he's frantically zipping up his space pants.
Next thing you know, all he sees is a raging ball of burning space poo and debris.
I think it would be cool. If you run into more than 2 a**holes in a day, you should probably look in the mirror. |
ivar R'dhak
STK Scientific
13
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
FRESSSH MEAT! Get him boys! Ah, already on it, nvm then.
Borun Tal wrote:Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it... Usually it-¦s not much of a problem for a male player to associate themselves WITH the ship, quasi becoming the ship. Actually men usually do this every day in their cars. In EVE we-¦ve just moved on to spaceships. In-fact it is part of the lore. That-¦s the reason for the POD and matirx style plugs in the back.
Some men and the overwhelming number of females have a much harder time with it and usually don-¦t even bother. That-¦s why they need space Barbie and Ken and why CCP made them Ken&Barbie so they can make more money.
To the OP, welcome (no seriously) to this game. Hope you find some fun. And nevar trust a goon. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Shogun Archer wrote:I don't know... I just kinda picture the OP sitting on his spaceship toilet inside his spaceship, relaxing, maybe reading some Reader's Digest...
Next thing you know, the ship alarm sounds, he scrambles to hop up from the potty. Reader's digest goes flying to the floor as he's frantically zipping up his space pants.
Next thing you know, all he sees is a raging ball of burning space poo and debris.
I think it would be cool. Even better is sitting in my spaceship toilet inside my spaceship while playing from a laptop while sitting on a toilet IRL. Then springing from my real toilet on accident. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
466
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:23:00 -
[34] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:So stop whining.
Oh sorry, I thought this was the crybaby corner, I just wanted to be like everyone else shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Shogun Archer
21
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Shogun Archer wrote:I don't know... I just kinda picture the OP sitting on his spaceship toilet inside his spaceship, relaxing, maybe reading some Reader's Digest...
Next thing you know, the ship alarm sounds, he scrambles to hop up from the potty. Reader's digest goes flying to the floor as he's frantically zipping up his space pants.
Next thing you know, all he sees is a raging ball of burning space poo and debris.
I think it would be cool. Even better is sitting in my spaceship toilet inside my spaceship while playing from a laptop while sitting on a toilet IRL. Then springing from my real toilet on accident.
You know, there is that space game that has Star Fleet Dental in it. I'm not sure I'm allowed to mention other mmo's, so I will leave it at that.
But anyway, I don't really think you've even played Eve enough to understand it fully. I understand you saw it at a friend's house and have played a couple weeks now, but you're just gonna get crushed on these forums.
I've been playing on and off since 2007, and your suggestion is one of the last things this game needs if you ask me. If you run into more than 2 a**holes in a day, you should probably look in the mirror. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1949
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:26:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ocih wrote:Ignore Goon Jr. He will try to derail your thread, given the chance.
Except it's not a derail. CCP tried catering to roleplayers and we got a single room that melts video cards, a ridiculous microtransaction store, and two years of Eve being ignored. After losing a ton of subscribers and having to lay off 20% of their employees CCP has finally gotten back on track and is focusing on Eve again. People asking them to stop are being dumb.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:27:00 -
[37] - Quote
Misanth wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:So stop whining. Oh sorry, I thought this was the crybaby corner, I just wanted to be like everyone else
Quote:Not a bling bling for newcomers who don't get the game.
Clearly.
"You just don't get the game!"
This sort of defense is common on boards for long-running games (and films) with a cult following. Any criticism or suggestion that you don't agree with is automatically a person that doesn't' get the game.
Tell me, kind sir, what I don't get about the game. What do you perceive about my understanding of the game that you think doesn't reflect the game's purpose and design? |
Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
24
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
There was so much promised for WiS, I still want my Eve Online: Sims expansion. Hope CCP realizes the potential and doesnt back away, because their Incarna headstart was such a failure. For your attention! Market order modification fee (anti-botting, more interesting trading) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78351 |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1952
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Tell me, kind sir, what I don't get about the game. What do you perceive about my understanding of the game that you think doesn't reflect the game's purpose and design?
How about paying for a spaceship game when you can't live without some kind of human-shaped avatar?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Tell me, kind sir, what I don't get about the game. What do you perceive about my understanding of the game that you think doesn't reflect the game's purpose and design? How about paying for a spaceship game when you can't live without some kind of human-shaped avatar Because "Spaceship game" and "Human Avatar" are mutually exclusive?
Using that train of thought, justify to me the existence of the ingame Marketplace. Would you be upset if they removed that? |
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KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
456
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Tell me, kind sir, what I don't get about the game. What do you perceive about my understanding of the game that you think doesn't reflect the game's purpose and design? How about paying for a spaceship game when you can't live without some kind of human-shaped avatar Because "Spaceship game" and "Human Avatar" are mutually exclusive? Using that train of thought, justify to me the existence of the ingame Marketplace. Would you be upset if they removed that? Clearly removing the ability to actually purchase and outfit a ship in a game about purchasing and outfitting ships is the same thing as Space Barbie and a totally appropriate comparison. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:50:00 -
[42] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Tell me, kind sir, what I don't get about the game. What do you perceive about my understanding of the game that you think doesn't reflect the game's purpose and design? How about paying for a spaceship game when you can't live without some kind of human-shaped avatar Because "Spaceship game" and "Human Avatar" are mutually exclusive? Using that train of thought, justify to me the existence of the ingame Marketplace. Would you be upset if they removed that? Clearly removing the ability to actually purchase and outfit a ship in a game about purchasing and outfitting ships is the same thing as Space Barbie and a totally appropriate comparison. Wait, purchase? Who said anything about purchase? It's a spaceship game, not an economics game. You can replace the Marketplace with a system of unlocking content through experience points.
I mean, paying for a spaceship game when you expect there to be some kind of economics system? |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
456
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
Congratulations on explaining to everyone how you are playing the wrong game. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Shogun Archer
22
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote: Bought some gametime the day before yesterday.
Nazzer Dawk wrote: Tell me, kind sir, what I don't get about the game. What do you perceive about my understanding of the game that you think doesn't reflect the game's purpose and design?
this.
If you run into more than 2 a**holes in a day, you should probably look in the mirror. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 02:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Congratulations on explaining to everyone how you are playing the wrong game. I see. Because EVE isn't a social game with spaceships and explosions and exploration and working towards big awesome ships and being a cool sci-fi space captain who takes huge risks and engages in interstellar commerce and sometimes even corporate espionage?
Because that's my perception of the game. Why is that wrong?
Shogun Archer wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote: Bought some gametime the day before yesterday.
Nazzer Dawk wrote: Tell me, kind sir, what I don't get about the game. What do you perceive about my understanding of the game that you think doesn't reflect the game's purpose and design?
this. I'll ask you the above question. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
113
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:01:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Ocih wrote:Ignore Goon Jr. He will try to derail your thread, given the chance. Except it's not a derail. CCP tried catering to roleplayers and we got a single room that melts video cards, a ridiculous microtransaction store, and two years of Eve being ignored. After losing a ton of subscribers and having to lay off 20% of their employees CCP has finally gotten back on track and is focusing on Eve again. People asking them to stop are being dumb.
Propaganda at its finest.
- Subscriptions lost were the result of Signature nerfs making null sec PvE alts obselete, add in some Sov changes that displaced a huge block of the EVE population.
- Layoffs were from debt restructuring in RL, our little monocle tantrum had nothing to do with it.
- Carbon based WoD died because the mechanics were liquid motion and an Avatar based game can't use the liquid motion technique EVE uses to move our ships. (Try turning in CQ you will see what I mean)
Nobody has asked CCP to drop Inferno in favor of CQ or WiS updates. CQ and WiS are actually going to be part of EVE once Dust comes on because it's all along the same line. Rather than have a WoD CQ/ WiS we will end up with a Dust CQ/ WiS though.
Goon Jr, pulls the same crap every time he replies. Stupid, dumb, idiot. I don't know if he works at a collection agency or what but his twisted idea that he needs to have everyone on the defencive, all the time gets really ******* old. |
Shogun Archer
22
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:02:00 -
[47] - Quote
I think I'm gonna go play WoW, mind you, I've never tried it, and get into their forums after 3 days.
I'm going to tell them the Orcs should be mauve. If you run into more than 2 a**holes in a day, you should probably look in the mirror. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
466
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Misanth wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:So stop whining. Oh sorry, I thought this was the crybaby corner, I just wanted to be like everyone else Quote:Not a bling bling for newcomers who don't get the game. Clearly. "You just don't get the game!" This sort of defense is common on boards for long-running games (and films) with a cult following. Any criticism or suggestion that you don't agree with is automatically a person that doesn't' get the game. Tell me, kind sir, what I don't get about the game. What do you perceive about my understanding of the game that you think doesn't reflect the game's purpose and design?
Probably the whole point of this game being, you know, in space. If we all were in stations, there would be no production, and there'd be no isk inserted in the markets, etc. Simply put, the game would die. The avatar-part of the game is just an extention, an extention that takes away from the true content - and frankly speaking, EVE launched in 2003 and the WiS-part launched in 2011. With no content, and still CCP don't even know how to deliver what was the early vision of it as well: social environment, bars, player/corp shops, etc.
The WiS part is just bling bling zero-content (without the social interaction), it bares no semblance or has nothing to do with the orignal and true content, it's actually counter-productive to both economy, industrialists, PvPers, etc.
Just stating facts here bro mate pal friend. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:13:00 -
[49] - Quote
Misanth wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Misanth wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:So stop whining. Oh sorry, I thought this was the crybaby corner, I just wanted to be like everyone else Quote:Not a bling bling for newcomers who don't get the game. Clearly. "You just don't get the game!" This sort of defense is common on boards for long-running games (and films) with a cult following. Any criticism or suggestion that you don't agree with is automatically a person that doesn't' get the game. Tell me, kind sir, what I don't get about the game. What do you perceive about my understanding of the game that you think doesn't reflect the game's purpose and design? Probably the whole point of this game being, you know, in space. If we all were in stations, there would be no production, and there'd be no isk inserted in the markets, etc. Simply put, the game would die. The avatar-part of the game is just an extention, an extention that takes away from the true content - and frankly speaking, EVE launched in 2003 and the WiS-part launched in 2011. With no content, and still CCP don't even know how to deliver what was the early vision of it as well: social environment, bars, player/corp shops, etc. The WiS part is just bling bling zero-content (without the social interaction), it bares no semblance or has nothing to do with the orignal and true content, it's actually counter-productive to both economy, industrialists, PvPers, etc. Just stating facts here bro mate pal friend.
So hey, you know this "View of my spaceship from the station" thing? Ship spinning it's called? Probably the whole point of this game being, you know, in space. If we all were in stations, there would be no production, and there'd be no isk inserted in the markets, etc. Simply put, the game would die. The ship-spinning-part of the game is just an extention.
So, guy, let me tell you something. I've stated before in this thread that I really don't want this feature if it detracts from the core game's development. I want the game to be a success. It means a lot to the gaming industry at large that EVE has such a functional and detailed economy. So my suggestion, and this thread, has the caveat that the feature is only added by some magical part of CCP that only gets hired to do this on the side for no pay. A team of slaves fueled by mountain dew and pizza or something.
So will you stop bringing up that it somehow magically detracts from the core game to have the option to do things from the perspective of an avatar and actually explain how it detracts from the game to have extra social features? (Cantina, social environment, etc) |
Ai Shun
395
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:15:00 -
[50] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:KrakizBad wrote:Congratulations on explaining to everyone how you are playing the wrong game. I see. Because EVE isn't a social game with spaceships and explosions and exploration and working towards big awesome ships and being a cool sci-fi space captain who takes huge risks and engages in interstellar commerce and sometimes even corporate espionage? Because that's my perception of the game. Why is that wrong?
I like new people. They are so ... antagonistic and not in the nice, EVE sense of the word. More in the "**** you. I've played this game for 2 days and I know everything so STFU" sense.
Let me try to explain to you.
There are players who enjoy exactly what you are describing above. CCP has neglected that aspect of the game for a long time, while they focussed on whatever their heads dreamed up and in the end delivered Incarna, hinted at Microtransactions and bodged in that cramped little room we call Captains' Quarters. It was released hopelessly too soon and the years of neglect + that created a sour taste for a number of players. (You are encountering them in this thread)
Now CCP has a team called Team Avatar that is currently working on Walking in Stations (WiS) I linked you to the thread and asked you to read the dev posts so you can get up to speed with the status of things in EVE Online. You seem to have either ignored that or decided the word of CCP is not important in your little crusade here on the forums. If it helps, click on the Dev Post icon next to the thread. It will take you to the dev post. Clicking on that dev post icon will take you to the next one. This helps you skip through them and read the CCP content and will get you up to speed on their current position.
I am one of the people that believe WiS has a compelling reason to exist in EVE, like Dust 514 and others and that it has the strength to stand on its own, just like Dust 514. But it is an issue that has polarised the player base to a large degree.
While there are players that desire WiS, you can see our support in the thread I linked you to, my understanding is it is a backburner project at the moment. The recent CSM elections will hopefully see a candidate elected that will push for meaningful content for avatars and further exploration of that concept, but at the moment nobody on the forums really knows what is happening.
CCP has recently been working very hard on rebuilding their reputation, getting the FiS (Flying in Space) components and systems that have been broken for a long time fixed. It has been a slow process, but one they committed to after the number of **** ups from last year.
So what you are basically telling the people here is: "I want CCP to go back to focussing on WiS and forgetting about FiS" without knowing your history of the game and recent events. So I think you really, really need to slow down and learn a bit more about the history, events and current state of things because where I am sitting you are giving WiS a petulant, "I want it now because I said so!" taint.
I believe it is coming. Some patience might be necessary though. |
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1953
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:20:00 -
[51] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:I see. Because EVE isn't a social game with spaceships and explosions and exploration and working towards big awesome ships and being a cool sci-fi space captain who takes huge risks and engages in interstellar commerce and sometimes even corporate espionage?
Because that's my perception of the game. Why is that wrong?.
It's wrong because you want CCP to ignore all the stuff in that list to make you more space pants and dance emotes.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:25:00 -
[52] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:KrakizBad wrote:Congratulations on explaining to everyone how you are playing the wrong game. I see. Because EVE isn't a social game with spaceships and explosions and exploration and working towards big awesome ships and being a cool sci-fi space captain who takes huge risks and engages in interstellar commerce and sometimes even corporate espionage? Because that's my perception of the game. Why is that wrong? I like new people. They are so ... antagonistic and not in the nice, EVE sense of the word. More in the " **** you. I've played this game for 2 days and I know everything so STFU" sense. Let me try to explain to you. There are players who enjoy exactly what you are describing above. CCP has neglected that aspect of the game for a long time, while they focussed on whatever their heads dreamed up and in the end delivered Incarna, hinted at Microtransactions and bodged in that cramped little room we call Captains' Quarters. It was released hopelessly too soon and the years of neglect + that created a sour taste for a number of players. (You are encountering them in this thread) Now CCP has a team called Team Avatar that is currently working on Walking in Stations (WiS) I linked you to the thread and asked you to read the dev posts so you can get up to speed with the status of things in EVE Online. You seem to have either ignored that or decided the word of CCP is not important in your little crusade here on the forums. If it helps, click on the Dev Post icon next to the thread. It will take you to the dev post. Clicking on that dev post icon will take you to the next one. This helps you skip through them and read the CCP content and will get you up to speed on their current position. I am one of the people that believe WiS has a compelling reason to exist in EVE, like Dust 514 and others and that it has the strength to stand on its own, just like Dust 514. But it is an issue that has polarised the player base to a large degree. While there are players that desire WiS, you can see our support in the thread I linked you to, my understanding is it is a backburner project at the moment. The recent CSM elections will hopefully see a candidate elected that will push for meaningful content for avatars and further exploration of that concept, but at the moment nobody on the forums really knows what is happening. CCP has recently been working very hard on rebuilding their reputation, getting the FiS (Flying in Space) components and systems that have been broken for a long time fixed. It has been a slow process, but one they committed to after the number of **** ups from last year. So what you are basically telling the people here is: " I want CCP to go back to focussing on WiS and forgetting about FiS" without knowing your history of the game and recent events. So I think you really, really need to slow down and learn a bit more about the history, events and current state of things because where I am sitting you are giving WiS a petulant, " I want it now because I said so!" taint. I believe it is coming. Some patience might be necessary though, because Ambulation has been a topic since about 2006. ( I think ) I think you have misunderstood what my feelings here are. I by no means want CCP to sacrifice development on the core experience (The FiS aspect) to work on the WiS part. I've indicated this in this thread.
I thank you for posting the link to that thread, I have actually been reading it during this conversation. But I'm not the one being antagonistic, I'm defending my desires from people who think that no one can have an opinion on a game unless they have played it for a long time. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1953
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:28:00 -
[53] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:I'm defending my desires from people who think that no one can have an opinion on a game unless they have played it for a long time.
It has nothing to do with how long you've played the game. It's coming into a game, expecting it to be something its not and then crying about it on the forums.
It would be like buying WoW for its spaceship content and then starting an emo thread on their forums when you find out it doesn't have any.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:31:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:I'm defending my desires from people who think that no one can have an opinion on a game unless they have played it for a long time. It has nothing to do with how long you've played the game. It's coming into a game, expecting it to be something its not and then crying about it on the forums. It would be like buying WoW for its spaceship content and then starting an emo thread on their forums when you find out it doesn't have any. I'm going to start ignoring your comments. It is becoming clear to me that you aren't interested in legitimate discussion, rather you are offended that someone who is new to a game has wishes for the game. Come back when you are prepared to discuss the merits of WiS instead of calling a thread about how I love a game so far and want it to have an extra feature an "Emo thread". |
Ai Shun
397
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:48:00 -
[55] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:I'm going to start ignoring your comments.
She will be devastated. |
Fredfredbug4
Kings of Kill EVE Animal Control
112
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:49:00 -
[56] - Quote
So your paying 15 dollars a month, almost entirely for a feature that is an extremely downgraded version of the sims?
You know, you can get the Sims 3 for like 10 dollars in some places now, and I'm sure you can mod it so it's all space themed, there might be an expansion for that but EA ***** them out every day so I don't keep track.
WiS was only meant to integrate EVE better with DUST. Speaking to someone represented by a face, is a lot easier to relate to than speaking to someone represented by a ship. In fact the old avatars were good enough, but would seem ridiculously out dated when compared to DUST or any game from the past 5 years for that matter. Development into WiS could of stopped at creating the current avatars and would be just fine for dealing with dustbunnies.
Plus WiS screwed me and my fellow lore enthusiast over big time. While capsuleers can exit their pods from time to time the experience was time consuming and rather excruciating. Most of the time if a capsuleer needed to speak with someone face to face they would be in an open pod but still hooked up to the entire thing. Like in this image from one of the chronicles
http://content.eveonline.com/www/chronicle/img/Xenocracy.jpg
Capsuleers would RARELY need to do any personal walking around a station. Hell if you read the story, you can very well see that capsuleers DO NOT SCREW AROUND. Not only do they look like cold heartless intimidating machines, but THEY ARE cold heartless intimidating machines.
And this isn't some outdated piece of lore either. It was written around the time of the Tyrannis which was the planetary interaction update. Step 1 to DUST integration. At one point CCP apparently considered dust bunnies seeing us like that which I think would be A LOT cooler but no, now we are all dress up dolls indistinguishable from any other sci-fi game.
|
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:I'm going to start ignoring your comments. She will be devastated. Lol, yeah.
Well I can appreciate you at least, you percieve my comments to be antagonistic but seem to have just misunderstood them. She, on the other hand, seems to be willfully ignorant of them.
Could you maybe respond to my last post directed at you? I'd appreciate it. While you had some hostility in your last post, I think it was just the result of the misunderstanding. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:So your paying 15 dollars a month, almost entirely for a feature that is an extremely downgraded version of the sims? You know, you can get the Sims 3 for like 10 dollars in some places now, and I'm sure you can mod it so it's all space themed, there might be an expansion for that but EA ***** them out every day so I don't keep track. WiS was only meant to integrate EVE better with DUST. Speaking to someone represented by a face, is a lot easier to relate to than speaking to someone represented by a ship. In fact the old avatars were good enough, but would seem ridiculously out dated when compared to DUST or any game from the past 5 years for that matter. Development into WiS could of stopped at creating the current avatars and would be just fine for dealing with dustbunnies. Plus WiS screwed me and my fellow lore enthusiast over big time. While capsuleers can exit their pods from time to time the experience was time consuming and rather excruciating. Most of the time if a capsuleer needed to speak with someone face to face they would be in an open pod but still hooked up to the entire thing. Like in this image from one of the chronicles http://content.eveonline.com/www/chronicle/img/Xenocracy.jpgCapsuleers would rarely need to do any personal walking around a station. Hell if you read the story, you can very well see that capsuleers DO NOT SCREW AROUND. Not only do they look like cold heartless intimidating machines, but they are cold heartless intimidating machines. People are going to be going to them but they go if they know what's good for them. And this isn't some outdated piece of lore either. It was written around the time of the Tyrannis which was the planetary interaction update. Step 1 to DUST integration. At one point CCP apparently considered dust bunnies seeing us like that which I think would be A LOT cooler but no, now we are all dress up dolls indistinguishable from any other sci-fi game.
******* FINALLY. Someone talking about the integral merits of WiS instead of bitching about it somehow magically detracting from the experience.
Hey, I have a lot of appreciation for the Lore of any series. But I do want to say that lore doesn't have to be static. Would you be opposed to a WiS system if they were to advance the lore to include some kind of advancement in technology making the Pods easy to get out of? |
Ai Shun
397
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:I think you have misunderstood what my feelings here are. I by no means want CCP to sacrifice development on the core experience (The FiS aspect) to work on the WiS part. I've indicated this in this thread.
I saw you say that. The things you post seems to contradict it. It's like my daughter; "I don't want a sweety, I'm just looking" while rooting through the candy jar.
Nazzer Dawk wrote:This is why I've been asking people to explain how WiS actually detracts from the experience, because from what I can see here and in that thread, they can't back it up.
This is why you need to understand the events around Incarna and the current situation for EVE, Walking in Stations and CCP. Until you do, you won't see why you are getting the comments you are getting. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 04:01:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:I think you have misunderstood what my feelings here are. I by no means want CCP to sacrifice development on the core experience (The FiS aspect) to work on the WiS part. I've indicated this in this thread. I saw you say that. The things you post seems to contradict it. It's like my daughter; "I don't want a sweety, I'm just looking" while rooting through the candy jar. I'm not sure what I'm saying that's contradicting that, though. I'm sorry if you got that impression, and I can see that my OP might have given you that impression (For example, I see that it looks like I just ignored the features of Eve and was only interested in WiS when my coworker was talking about it to me).
But, I've presented to you that it was a misunderstanding.
Quote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:This is why I've been asking people to explain how WiS actually detracts from the experience, because from what I can see here and in that thread, they can't back it up. This is why you need to understand the events around Incarna and the current situation for EVE, Walking in Stations and CCP. Until you do, you won't see why you are getting the comments you are getting.
Everything I've been hearing from them hinges on the assumption that pushing for this addition requires Eve's FiS game to suffer. Which is the impression I'm getting from that thread as well. |
|
Fredfredbug4
Kings of Kill EVE Animal Control
112
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 04:03:00 -
[61] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Fredfredbug4 wrote:So your paying 15 dollars a month, almost entirely for a feature that is an extremely downgraded version of the sims? You know, you can get the Sims 3 for like 10 dollars in some places now, and I'm sure you can mod it so it's all space themed, there might be an expansion for that but EA ***** them out every day so I don't keep track. WiS was only meant to integrate EVE better with DUST. Speaking to someone represented by a face, is a lot easier to relate to than speaking to someone represented by a ship. In fact the old avatars were good enough, but would seem ridiculously out dated when compared to DUST or any game from the past 5 years for that matter. Development into WiS could of stopped at creating the current avatars and would be just fine for dealing with dustbunnies. Plus WiS screwed me and my fellow lore enthusiast over big time. While capsuleers can exit their pods from time to time the experience was time consuming and rather excruciating. Most of the time if a capsuleer needed to speak with someone face to face they would be in an open pod but still hooked up to the entire thing. Like in this image from one of the chronicles http://content.eveonline.com/www/chronicle/img/Xenocracy.jpgCapsuleers would rarely need to do any personal walking around a station. Hell if you read the story, you can very well see that capsuleers DO NOT SCREW AROUND. Not only do they look like cold heartless intimidating machines, but they are cold heartless intimidating machines. People are going to be going to them but they go if they know what's good for them. And this isn't some outdated piece of lore either. It was written around the time of the Tyrannis which was the planetary interaction update. Step 1 to DUST integration. At one point CCP apparently considered dust bunnies seeing us like that which I think would be A LOT cooler but no, now we are all dress up dolls indistinguishable from any other sci-fi game. ******* FINALLY. Someone talking about the integral merits of WiS instead of bitching about it somehow magically detracting from the experience. Hey, I have a lot of appreciation for the Lore of any series. But I do want to say that lore doesn't have to be static. Would you be opposed to a WiS system if they were to advance the lore to include some kind of advancement in technology making the Pods easy to get out of? And I've pointed out about 4 times now that I'm not playing Eve JUST for the avatars. The avatars were just the thing that made the game feel personal enough for me to get a personal connection with my character. I am playing Eve for the economic system and the awesome spaceships in the end. I just find it hard to get into RPGs unless my character feels like it actually exists in the universe.
I would be fine with WiS for the most part if CCP did indeed provide a logical explanation as to why pod pilots can now just unplug themselves from their pods like a USB, feel a little woozy for about a minute and then continue as they were like they were never in a pod. I'm thinking a good explanation for the recent pod technology advancement could be related to reversed engineered sleeper tech. I'm not saying that the sleepers had pods but maybe some scientist reversed engineered a sleeper microchip and figured out how to remove the need for all the tubes and cables that were once hooked up to capsuleers. IDK just some explanation to the sudden jump in capsule technology in just a few years.
And yeah, I can understand how that could work. My personal belief though is that if a new experience (that would make sense in the EVE universe of course) can be brought from WiS then it would be more worthwhile. For now it's nothing more than a slower and more complicated way of navigating menus. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 04:08:00 -
[62] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Fredfredbug4 wrote:So your paying 15 dollars a month, almost entirely for a feature that is an extremely downgraded version of the sims? You know, you can get the Sims 3 for like 10 dollars in some places now, and I'm sure you can mod it so it's all space themed, there might be an expansion for that but EA ***** them out every day so I don't keep track. WiS was only meant to integrate EVE better with DUST. Speaking to someone represented by a face, is a lot easier to relate to than speaking to someone represented by a ship. In fact the old avatars were good enough, but would seem ridiculously out dated when compared to DUST or any game from the past 5 years for that matter. Development into WiS could of stopped at creating the current avatars and would be just fine for dealing with dustbunnies. Plus WiS screwed me and my fellow lore enthusiast over big time. While capsuleers can exit their pods from time to time the experience was time consuming and rather excruciating. Most of the time if a capsuleer needed to speak with someone face to face they would be in an open pod but still hooked up to the entire thing. Like in this image from one of the chronicles http://content.eveonline.com/www/chronicle/img/Xenocracy.jpgCapsuleers would rarely need to do any personal walking around a station. Hell if you read the story, you can very well see that capsuleers DO NOT SCREW AROUND. Not only do they look like cold heartless intimidating machines, but they are cold heartless intimidating machines. People are going to be going to them but they go if they know what's good for them. And this isn't some outdated piece of lore either. It was written around the time of the Tyrannis which was the planetary interaction update. Step 1 to DUST integration. At one point CCP apparently considered dust bunnies seeing us like that which I think would be A LOT cooler but no, now we are all dress up dolls indistinguishable from any other sci-fi game. ******* FINALLY. Someone talking about the integral merits of WiS instead of bitching about it somehow magically detracting from the experience. Hey, I have a lot of appreciation for the Lore of any series. But I do want to say that lore doesn't have to be static. Would you be opposed to a WiS system if they were to advance the lore to include some kind of advancement in technology making the Pods easy to get out of? And I've pointed out about 4 times now that I'm not playing Eve JUST for the avatars. The avatars were just the thing that made the game feel personal enough for me to get a personal connection with my character. I am playing Eve for the economic system and the awesome spaceships in the end. I just find it hard to get into RPGs unless my character feels like it actually exists in the universe. I would be fine with WiS for the most part if CCP did indeed provide a logical explanation as to why pod pilots can now just unplug themselves from their pods like a USB, feel a little woozy for about a minute and then continue as they were like they were never in a pod. I'm thinking a good explanation for the recent pod technology advancement could be related to reversed engineered sleeper tech. I'm not saying that the sleepers had pods but maybe some scientist reversed engineered a sleeper microchip and figured out how to remove the need for all the tubes and cables that were once hooked up to capsuleers. IDK just some explanation to the sudden jump in capsule technology in just a few years. And yeah, I can understand how that could work. My personal belief though is that if a new experience (that would make sense in the EVE universe of course) can be brought from WiS then it would be more worthwhile. For now it's nothing more than a slower and more complicated way of navigating menus. No, I completely agree. I am actually using the slower menus right now because I'm a sucker for avatar implementation, but it will always feel like an empty shell if there's no real content.
Reminds me of how Playstation HOME sounded pretty cool to start, but it feels so lifeless and like it's just a clunky way of messaging people and joining their games. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard
497
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 09:00:00 -
[63] - Quote
Oh, fresh meat!
Been a while since the last newb with illusions of grandeur, and that didn't even last a week before he or she ragequit so I do wonder how you will fare...? I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
33
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 09:10:00 -
[64] - Quote
Captain's Quarters look real nice, I'll admit it. But they also get real old, real quick. Soon you'll just set it to ship-spinning mode to shave off the time it takes to load and to have easier access to all services.
It's in space where all the action happens (though admittedly some of it happens on the forums as well).
A well implemented WiS would be a great asset to EVE, but seeing how much resources CCP had to pour into realizing just a single unimpressive room for Incarna... well, let's just say there better things to work on for CCP. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
Aethlyn
101
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 09:50:00 -
[65] - Quote
Meryl SinGarda wrote:The problem with walking around in your ship is that your avatar doesn't actually walk around in the ship "off-screen." You're in a POD filled with goo the entire time. There'll be a new view when docked, making it a total three:
- Captain's Quarter - walk around as you know it. - Hangar View - Spin your ship, wheee! - Pod View - Spin yourself in your pod, goooooooooo!
:)
Tobiaz wrote:A well implemented WiS would be a great asset to EVE, but seeing how much resources CCP had to pour into realizing just a single unimpressive room for Incarna... well, let's just say there better things to work on for CCP. Don't forget the fact they didn't just have to model these rooms. They had to create the base tech to do it, etc. and I actually think further improvements can be made rather fast, once they've got the missing tech stuff done (e.g. multiplayer part of walking around; possibly NPCs and stuff). Looking for more thoughts? Read my blog or follow me on Twitter. |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
550
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 10:02:00 -
[66] - Quote
Meryl SinGarda wrote:The problem with walking around in your ship is that your avatar doesn't actually walk around in the ship "off-screen." You're in a POD filled with goo the entire time.
Thats not correct, while you pilot your ship from you pod capsuleers often get out of their pods when they want to. This is offcourse entirely optional. Some interact with people, others don't. But there have been plenty of chronicles, stories and mentions in the books of just how much a capsuleer gets out of his pod, the answer being:
as much as he wants to. He can get out of his ship during flight, he can walk around and interact and get back in both in ship and in station.
I mostly agree with OP, the potential for additinal awesome gameplay is there, CCP needs to do the things they planned before they scuttled ambulation for Incarna and the NeX and make that station and the avatars a part of the game and sandbox. Nobody needs to do anything they don't want in EVE, but if they create meaningful game play and opportunities, people will go outside. Just like nobody needs to mine or go into wormholes or 0.0.
- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
33
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 10:14:00 -
[67] - Quote
Aethlyn wrote:Meryl SinGarda wrote:The problem with walking around in your ship is that your avatar doesn't actually walk around in the ship "off-screen." You're in a POD filled with goo the entire time. There'll be a new view when docked, making it a total three: - Captain's Quarter - walk around as you know it. - Hangar View - Spin your ship, wheee! - Pod View - Spin yourself in your pod, goooooooooo! :) Tobiaz wrote:A well implemented WiS would be a great asset to EVE, but seeing how much resources CCP had to pour into realizing just a single unimpressive room for Incarna... well, let's just say there better things to work on for CCP. Don't forget the fact they didn't just have to model these rooms. They had to create the base tech to do it, etc. and I actually think further improvements can be made rather fast, once they've got the missing tech stuff done (e.g. multiplayer part of walking around; possibly NPCs and stuff).
If making that room was so little work, why then took it so long to add the room of the other 3 races (on which they undoubtedly were already working before Incarna was implemented). I weep at what it would cost CCP to implement WiS to a degree that it would not totally sink the expectations. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
Pheusia
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
40
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 10:28:00 -
[68] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:I, too, enjoy signing up for games that don't have the gameplay I want so I can tell everyone on their forums how much better the game would be if they only changed it in a significant way that no one but me wants.
In fairness to the OP, CCP spent about a year hyping up how Incarna was going to transform EVE. he can be forgiven for assuming that they meant it. |
ctx2007
Wychwood and Wells
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 10:41:00 -
[69] - Quote
ccp could have at least put a shower and toilet in the CQ so could at least clean myself up after the goo tank |
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
358
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 10:42:00 -
[70] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Borun Tal wrote:Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it... It's about the personal feeling that having a human there gives it. Without having an actual person in there, I'm just imagining one there. It's the "Toy spaceships in the backyard" feeling I mentioned. Meryl SinGarda wrote:The problem with walking around in your ship is that your avatar doesn't actually walk around in the ship "off-screen." You're in a POD filled with goo the entire time. Hmm. I didn't know that. Well that changes my perspective of the ship thing then. But the station still applies. I need to feel a connection with my character.
Oh, definitely. I'm all for walking around in stations, gambling, boozing, sneering and sticking my face against the glass, just so long as dev resources are allocated evenly to both space and stations.
Fly Safe, Die Hard
|
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baltec1
843
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 10:45:00 -
[71] - Quote
I ended up watching ponies on my TV |
Blatant Forum Alt
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
41
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 11:18:00 -
[72] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:This is why I've been asking people to explain how WiS actually detracts from the experience, because from what I can see here and in that thread, they can't back it up. This is why you need to understand the events around Incarna and the current situation for EVE, Walking in Stations and CCP. Until you do, you won't see why you are getting the comments you are getting. Everything I've been hearing from them hinges on the assumption that pushing for this addition requires Eve's FiS game to suffer. Which is the impression I'm getting from that thread as well.
Dude, this is the Eve equivalent of walking into Ground Zero and announcing loudly that someone should build two skyscraper mosques there, and shouting at anyone who tuts or tells you to pipe down.
But yes, you are quite right, any development of space barbie WiS arsehattery by default will cause FiS - in other words, Eve - to suffer, as fewer resources will be used on tackling the huge list of broken and incomplete features that Eve is faced with. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 14:11:00 -
[73] - Quote
Blatant Forum Alt wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:This is why I've been asking people to explain how WiS actually detracts from the experience, because from what I can see here and in that thread, they can't back it up. This is why you need to understand the events around Incarna and the current situation for EVE, Walking in Stations and CCP. Until you do, you won't see why you are getting the comments you are getting. Everything I've been hearing from them hinges on the assumption that pushing for this addition requires Eve's FiS game to suffer. Which is the impression I'm getting from that thread as well. Dude, this is the Eve equivalent of walking into Ground Zero and announcing loudly that someone should build two skyscraper mosques there, and shouting at anyone who tuts or tells you to pipe down. wut
Quote:
But yes, you are quite right, any development of space barbie WiS arsehattery by default will cause FiS - in other words, Eve - to suffer, as fewer resources will be used on tackling the huge list of broken and incomplete features that Eve is faced with.
Unless, and hear me out, they have a separate team working on WiS!
I said on the very first page that I only want this as long as it doesn't effect normal development. It's not my fault you couldn't read the first 15 posts of the thread. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
304
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 14:17:00 -
[74] - Quote
Facts:
1) there is a team working on WiS, most importantly trying to come up with meaningful gameplay content for WiS
2) most people are fine with or without WiS
3) bittervets will bitter, no matter what happens and also if nothing happens at all
Welcome to EVE, btw :)
|
Sasha Khaine
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
53
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 14:29:00 -
[75] - Quote
ctx2007 wrote:ccp could have at least put a shower and toilet in the CQ so could at least clean myself up after the goo tank
What do you think happens when you are loading the station environment! They can't show that stuff, there might be kids playing!
Welcome to EVE"The entire British empire was founded on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one, mate. You're sadly mistaken" |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
180
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 14:41:00 -
[76] - Quote
WiS will never fly in this game until there is something relevant to the rest of the game you could do with it. Some suggested examples:
- Fleet ready room where a corp could assemble and see a live briefing from the top brass, complete with a whiteboard - Gambling tables and other minigames - Mindwarp, or whatever that eve lore game is called - Drug dealing/smuggling...stuff that must occur off the market in some way - Player run stores (seems a bit unlikely this one)
There's plenty of possibilities, but it really has to be something essential to expanding the current gameplay somehow. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
384
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 14:43:00 -
[77] - Quote
These serious responses are HILARIOUS !
Did not ONE catch the tongue-in-cheek SARCASM of the OP ??
'Twas not a serious posting folks...........wow. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1313
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 14:52:00 -
[78] - Quote
To the OP. A lot of people feel the same way you do. I wouldn't say the majority of EvE players "NEED" to have an avatar and walk in stations but the majority certainly want it. Unfortunately you have a very vocal minorty of players that think EvE is only about spaceships and don't think avatars are needed and this makes them "elite". They clearly only think they are important and don't give a **** what anybody else thinks.
CCP is fully aware that walking in stations will increase their subscriber base. It is also something they want to do to complete the full SciFi experience within EvE. Right now they are re-assessing plans for WiS to include things that make the gameplay relevant and fun instead of just walking around and waving to each other. Give them time and they will complete it for sure. It is on the backburner right now as CCP wishes to focus more on the core spaceship gameplay and fix a lot of stuff that has needed fixing for a very long time. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
384
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 15:07:00 -
[79] - Quote
This is getting even FUNNIER with even more postings (FOUR pages so far) when the OP is NOT serious at all OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Fishmaskle
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 16:13:00 -
[80] - Quote
Hmm. Like others have mentioned, the core tech to build CQ was sort of the starter template, but it was also modular so they can "easily(TM)" expand on it.... Someday. If they really did get WiS(Stations and Ships) it technically would be one of the best looking Avatar style experiences in an MMO to date (Though games like AION use the Crytek Engine, the overall look still doesn't make me go O.O at the detail, and the audio..... lets not go there)
The first thing I thought about back when WiS was announced, would be instation pub's and Poker Rooms. Not a lot required and a great way to just make it more social without it being a complete disconnect from the game.
Yadadatada... If I helped you out, Technical Issue,-áenemy gank, popped your poor fit,-áhit the "Like" button. |
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Borun Tal
Border Zone Combat
67
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 16:27:00 -
[81] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Borun Tal wrote:Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it... It's about the personal feeling that having a human there gives it. Without having an actual person in there, I'm just imagining one there. It's the "Toy spaceships in the backyard" feeling I mentioned. Meryl SinGarda wrote:The problem with walking around in your ship is that your avatar doesn't actually walk around in the ship "off-screen." You're in a POD filled with goo the entire time. Hmm. I didn't know that. Well that changes my perspective of the ship thing then. But the station still applies. I need to feel a connection with my character.
Dude, if you're trying to be profound ("having a human there"???), at least learn the lore (didn't know about the pod????)... |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
888
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 16:30:00 -
[82] - Quote
Another bitter vet alt forum troll post.
Was expecting something interesting, left disappointed. |
Ezurae
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 16:31:00 -
[83] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:THE GAME. goddamnit.
damn it... indeed well played by him, well played |
Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
99
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 16:45:00 -
[84] - Quote
Borun Tal wrote:Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it...
You don't have to get it. You just need to realise that some people do like avatars as well as ships.
WiS is a natural extension of the old EVE, it won't effect the old EVE. Plus WiS opens up a whole new set of possibilities.
But I doubt you'll see much of anything being done with WiS, until Dust 514 is up and running (plus a few patches).
I'm all for WiS as long as they keep working on other things in EVE as well as. |
Florestan Bronstein
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
460
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 17:38:00 -
[85] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:
Unless, and hear me out, they have a separate team working on WiS!
I said on the very first page that I only want this as long as it doesn't effect normal development. It's not my fault you couldn't read the first 15 posts of the thread.
unless you raise additional funding based on the expected monetization of WiS hiring WiS devs means less money to hire FiS devs with.
anyways... I think the discussion is moot. EVE has developed into a low immersion direction for more than 8 years (maybe because of the lack of avatars) and you won't be able to reverse that at this point without risking to kill the game.
I have 9 characters on 3 accounts, 3 of these characters I bought on the bazaar, I also sold 2 characters on the bazaar for isk. I biomassed one 3m SP character and several throwaway alts. I spend more time using oog tools like teamspeak, alliance forums or jabber on which I naturally interact with other players as myself (as opposed to RPing my character) than playing the actual game. I play in 0.0 - where ddosing another fleet's voicecomms system is just another pvp tactic (that's slightly exaggerated but getting ddos'd is not exactly uncommon either).
Do you think I identify strongly with any one of my characters or that having a full-body avatar does change any of that?
The train for "high immersion" EVE has left many years ago. Now EVE is extremely metagame oriented and characters serve as (ultimately disposable) tools rather than as "true" alter egos - this formula might not be to your liking but it has become an essential part of the niche EVE has carved out for itself in the mmo world and CCP would be stupid to give up on it. |
ps3ud0nym
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
74
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 17:44:00 -
[86] - Quote
I am glad you brought this topic up OP, it is good to see a different perspective on why you started EVE. I think so many people joined on the backs of videos of huge space battles, we forget that what draws one person to the game, isn't what draws another
The debate about WiS isn't going to go away soon, it has been around since the beta in one version or another. The earliest betas made it obvious that walking in the stations was planned, and I wondered for years why CCP didn't really execute on that original design. In the mean time they created this world outside of the stations of EVE that is a living breathing place and now come to the point where people are legitimately questioning if any attention at all should be placed on WiS at all.
From my perspective, most of this argument comes from CCP's ideas of what exactly an avatar IS. I love spaceships, and EVE's character creator is really something spectacular, but I don't think CCP realizes that I really don't consider what is created in the character creator *my* Avatar. In EVE, my SHIP is my Avatar and my portrait is something more along the lines of character back ground.
I think much of the discontent regarding Incarna comes from what felt (to me at any rate) like an attempt by CCP to move that Avatar in my mind from my ship, which I care about, to my character model which I never have given a damn about. CCP completely mis-understood how people connected to this game emotionally and their attempt to change that relationship resulted in an understandable emotional response. Their motivations were good, they wanted to engage players in the world more, they just misunderstood what EVE players value and how they connect emotionally to the game. Had they created a NEX store full of ship wingy bits, decals and paint schemes, which were destroyed with the ships rather than shoes and pants and ludicrously expensive eye wear, I think the EVE community would have flipped its lid with joy and the only sound would be of wallets opening and people dumping money as fast as their bank accounts would allow.
But does all that mean that CCP shouldn't continue to work on WiS..? no. CCP needs to expand the appeal of EVE to other gaming segments, but they are going about it completely the wrong way. EVE should be EVE, and developed with spaceships first and foremost, but that doesn't stop CCP from expanding to other properties that tie into the EVE universe and effectively give us WiS without messing about with EVE: A Game About Spaceships. I think that CCP has made some rather bad strategic decisions and now has to eat a bunch of mistakes that they could have avoided. Creating a RPG MMO is a fantastic idea, creating one based on a property with which you have no familiarity based on an IP that was niche when it was popular and is almost unheard of now.. wasn't a good idea. A vampire MMO was and remains a stupid idea for a company like CCP. Instead of creating a whole new world with a customer base that CCP has no familiarity with and no tie in too, they should have set their MMO in the world of New Eden and used the considerable development investment in EVE as a launch pad to gain audience and players. I have far more friends who love to hear about EVE, read about EVE and watch videos about EVE than who actually play the damn game. Most love the concept and the news, but wouldn't sign up for a trial if it was free forever cause they just aren't into this kind of game play. They would, however, climb over broken glass to play an MMO set in this universe.
From the looks of things, CCP is now relying on DUST to bring this tie in to EVE. That is a very risky proposition. Even good shooters, with tie in universes and good reviews like Space Marine are finding it a hard slog in the FPS market. I think CCP has a good concept and likely has a good game, but it takes more than that to succeed in that particular market and CCP has no experience in the segment at all. I would love to see them dump the White Wolf IP but keep working on the tech and transfer the work done to an EVE themed MMORPG. Rather than continuing working on a lame duck, they should put their efforts into creating an ecosystem of interconnected games that both expand the audience and feed each other. With three different options and three different play styles (EVE, FPS and MMORPG) set inside a single universe CCP could reach their maximum potential audience and since it is all the same world, many of the development costs could be shared or avoided all together. By putting in a MMORPG element, it would mitigate some of the risk that CCP is taking on by entering the FPS market. CCP has a proven track record in MMOs and EVE has an established audience. A EVE themed MMO is a pretty safe bet for CCP.
Realistically.. I don't think that anyone will buy the White Wolf property, it was a bad bet then and it remains a bad bet now. CCP is going to have to put out something to please investors, and I don't think it will do very well. Hopefully the tech that is developed can be leveraged for EVE and the property will do well enough it can be sold to another development studio. At the very least it will allow CCP to progress with Carbon, which is key to WiS. It will be a loss, but lets hope it is a necessarily one to advance CCPs core business which is both the game of EVE and the world of New Eden. |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 18:00:00 -
[87] - Quote
I'll just say that I hate people who try to tell others what is this game about. Be it FiS, PvP, or whatever. If there's something in the same, it's because the game IS about it, not because it appeared there magically. So let everybody like whatever they want about the game and STFU. |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
142
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 18:31:00 -
[88] - Quote
I heard all this stuff has been worked on and implemented, but they changed it from WIS to STO. |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 18:34:00 -
[89] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Meaningless drivel from a 2 day old player how EVE is wrong.... Geez man get stuffed, what a dork.... |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 19:15:00 -
[90] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ignores a whole thread and thus misunderstands my intentions because of a problematic initial post Geez man get stuffed, what a dork.... Please read more of the thread, I think you misunderstand. |
|
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
191
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 19:20:00 -
[91] - Quote
Borun Tal wrote:Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it...
i heard its because EVE is a sandbox game and even though its most important element is PVP its not the only element that makes it worth playing...
|
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 19:22:00 -
[92] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Doc Severide wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ignores a whole thread and thus misunderstands my intentions because of a problematic initial post Geez man get stuffed, what a dork.... Please read more of the thread, I think you misunderstand. I did, I do and you are clearly in the wrong game... |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 19:25:00 -
[93] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Doc Severide wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ignores a whole thread and thus misunderstands my intentions because of a problematic initial post Geez man get stuffed, what a dork.... Please read more of the thread, I think you misunderstand. I did, I do and you are clearly in the wrong game...
No, I'm not "Clearly in the wrong game". Please, reread the OP. I edited it to be more clear about my feelings. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
191
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 19:30:00 -
[94] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Doc Severide wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Doc Severide wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ignores a whole thread and thus misunderstands my intentions because of a problematic initial post Geez man get stuffed, what a dork.... Please read more of the thread, I think you misunderstand. I did, I do and you are clearly in the wrong game... No, I'm not "Clearly in the wrong game". Please, reread the OP. I edited it to be more clear about my feelings.
nazzer please understand that the forums are some of the best PVP you will find... this guy is just trying to troll you in to a hernia... |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 19:32:00 -
[95] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote: No, I'm not "Clearly in the wrong game". Please, reread the OP. I edited it to be more clear about my feelings.
nazzer please understand that the forums are some of the best PVP you will find... this guy is just trying to troll you in to a hernia... I've got a limited sense of humor on boards I am not very familiar with, so I'm relatively easy to troll :( |
Arlen Fehrnah
Viziam Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 20:57:00 -
[96] - Quote
I'd just like to add that I, like the OP, was drawn to the game by WiS. When I first tried Eve years ago, I hated it. There were several reasons why, but one of them was I felt like I was a spaceship, not a man flying a spaceship. I just couldn't get into the game knowing that all my character would ever be is a picture in the corner of the screen. When I heard about Incarna, I gave Eve another go, and stuck with it.
Now, needless to say WiS isn't MORE important than Fis, but both have a place in Eve, and anyone saying otherwise is just plain wrong. If someone plays Eve for Nullsec PvP, great. Good for them. If they play it to manipulate the market, and earn billions, again thats fine. Whats wrong with someone enjoying creating an avatar and enjoying that? Personally I enjoy many aspects of Eve, but Incarna is what ties it all together for me. CCP is a big team, and I'm sure they can manage to work on FiS/WiS at the same time if they really put their minds to it. Aslong as they don't abandon any one part of the game, theres no problem at all.
Basically, all the anti-WiS people are just being selfish. You don't see WiS fans complaining when CCP add new ships. Nor will you see them complaining when Inferno rolls out and updates FW etc. We don't have to pick WiS or Fis, we can have both. And ultimately it will benefit EvE to do so.
Also, ps3ud0nym, i understand you feel as though your ship is your avatar, but not everyone feels that way. To me, a ship is just that. A ship. Sooner or later it will get exploded and replaced. I have no emotional ties to my ships, other than "ah, my first cruiser. Sure did serve me well" I do agree though that NeX ships skins etc. would have been great, and probably sold like hotcakes. Having a ship as my avatar stopped me playing Eve for years. I suppose CCP will have a hard time catering to everyone, but I don't see why they can't make a compromise. Even now, you can disable CQ and never see your avatar in the flesh again. I just hope CCP don't listen to the vocal minority on these forums(I doubt even 10% of eve players come here) and ignore WiS altogether. Especially when it would be so easy to cater to FiS and WiS at the same time. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 21:30:00 -
[97] - Quote
Arlen Fehrnah wrote: Especially when it would be so easy to cater to FiS and WiS at the same time.
Gameplay wise, certainly. Financially, I dunno. I hope CCP can get WiS working without killing the rest of the game like everyone else. |
ps3ud0nym
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
74
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 21:43:00 -
[98] - Quote
Arlen Fehrnah wrote: Also, ps3ud0nym, i understand you feel as though your ship is your avatar, but not everyone feels that way. To me, a ship is just that. A ship. Sooner or later it will get exploded and replaced. I have no emotional ties to my ships, other than "ah, my first cruiser. Sure did serve me well" I do agree though that NeX ships skins etc. would have been great, and probably sold like hotcakes. Having a ship as my avatar stopped me playing Eve for years. I suppose CCP will have a hard time catering to everyone, but I don't see why they can't make a compromise. Even now, you can disable CQ and never see your avatar in the flesh again. I just hope CCP don't listen to the vocal minority on these forums(I doubt even 10% of eve players come here) and ignore WiS altogether. Especially when it would be so easy to cater to FiS and WiS at the same time.
I really want to see more WiS myself, but I think that tackling it as some sort of extension to EVE is not going to work. The majority of the players now have some sort of emotional attachment to their ships (Or at least the isk.. hence why "tears" are such a motivator, if people weren't attached emotionally to the ship, they wouldn't cry when they lose it) and many of those people see any attempt to expand WiS as taking away from EVE: A Game About Spaceships. That is why I was suggesting decoupling the entire process. Make it another entirely separate game with interaction between EVE pilots and New Eden MMO players occurring in the stations.
CCP seems to be of the mind that it isn't possible for a player to become emotionally attached to a ship and have made design decisions (Incarna in its entirety) based on that assumption. It is one explanation for why they though removing ship spinning wouldn't be an issue. The idea that people were emotionally connected to a object that was completely non-human in form wasn't something that CCP had ever considered before. They aren't going to be able to reverse that trend, and as 99.9% of EVE's content is in space, there really isn't a need for the avatar of EVE players to be anything BUT a Spaceship. By making an MMO that is separate but connected to EVE, the players who really do need a humanoid avatar to connect emotionally will both have a reason to play, and content that will interest them. If you can't connect with a spaceship, you aren't as likely to enjoy the kinds of activities that EVE provides and different content would suit you better, content that is more designed to be experienced as a Avatar in a MMORPG.
|
Shometo
Shadowbane Syndicate
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 21:46:00 -
[99] - Quote
Nazzer no matter how much you complain on our forums about a game we all love to play the way its meant to be played(bugs and balance issues aside) your words are falling on blind eyes at best. With all respect I disagree and wish you the best of luck finding whatever it is your looking for. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 21:54:00 -
[100] - Quote
Shometo wrote:Nazzer no matter how much you complain on our forums about a game we all love to play the way its meant to be played(bugs and balance issues aside) your words are falling on blind eyes at best. With all respect I disagree and wish you the best of luck finding whatever it is your looking for. I didn't complain, sir. I yearned, and I posted about my yearning, but the tone of my post wasn't one of complaint, I hope. |
|
Arlen Fehrnah
Viziam Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 22:07:00 -
[101] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Arlen Fehrnah wrote: Especially when it would be so easy to cater to FiS and WiS at the same time. Gameplay wise, certainly. Financially, I dunno. I hope CCP can get WiS working without killing the rest of the game like everyone else.
I know what you mean. Nobody wants to neglect the spaceships portion of the game, but the groundwork for WiS is done already. If they just gradually add to it occasionally I'll be happy. Just letting me walk around stations and see other people would do for now. Hopefully if Dust is a success CCP will be more inclined to spend some resources on WiS. |
Ai Shun
404
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 23:32:00 -
[102] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Gameplay wise, certainly. Financially, I dunno. I hope CCP can get WiS working without killing the rest of the game like everyone else.
Financially? Why not try building it as a separately funded game, like they are doing with Dust 514. Put together a full design, plan the EVE integration, etc. And then run it as a separate, yet linked game. |
Pop Bear
Guerrilla Cartel Lawful Insanity
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 00:21:00 -
[103] - Quote
I don't get it? Whats all the fuss over WIS? If it ever gets implemented into the game, it's just going to be a as boring as the room is!!!
CCP have clearly stated that WIS will NOT be a FPS. So even if we get WIS, whats there to do? Walk around for 10 minutes, hang at a virtual bar / casino / office / market etc... get bored, cry on the forums cause it sucks, reload hanger view, never use it again and forget all about it?
Without any form of combat, theft, griefing, whatever... not only will it not fit with the type of game that Eve is, where anything goes but it's just going to be boring as hell and completly pointless IMO.
Now, if you could dock, load station, open the damn door, and be able to start cracking some skulls... that would be beyond awesome!!! |
Ai Shun
405
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 01:12:00 -
[104] - Quote
Pop Bear wrote:CCP have clearly stated that WIS will NOT be a FPS. So even if we get WIS, whats there to do? Walk around for 10 minutes, hang at a virtual bar / casino / office / market etc... get bored, cry on the forums cause it sucks, reload hanger view, never use it again and forget all about it?
For you. Mileage will vary from player to player. There are players that are after a more avatar based environment for their social interaction. It adds another dimension to the whole concept of EVE Universe (Some of what we've seen in trailer videos, etc.)
Pop Bear wrote:Without any form of combat, theft, griefing, whatever... not only will it not fit with the type of game that Eve is, where anything goes but it's just going to be boring as hell and completly pointless IMO.
Which is why you can make suggestions in the Features & Ideas forum; or contribute to the large WiS thread (Almost perpetually on the main page) to see that the type of gameplay elements you want from it are considered and potentially included. |
Carver DiGriz
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 01:32:00 -
[105] - Quote
Incoming derail. Apologies. As OP did not know WiS (nee ambulation), FIS, etc., I am wondering if he hasn't done himself the excellent service of grabbing Clear Skies 1 and Clear Skies 2? Fan-made EvE flicks of +3 awesome with shipoard moseying and a couch. So very good. Not canon, but good. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 01:38:00 -
[106] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Gameplay wise, certainly. Financially, I dunno. I hope CCP can get WiS working without killing the rest of the game like everyone else. Financially? Why not try building it as a separately funded game, like they are doing with Dust 514. Put together a full design, plan the EVE integration, etc. And then run it as a separate, yet linked game. i don't know that a separate game is really the same thing. I think that people are kinda wanting it to be similar to the current Captain's Quarters implementation, just with that damned station door unlocked and things to do beyond it.
But if my capsuleer can be put in station, then I can swap over to the MMO and play that, and if there was some requirement that your character in EVE has to be available for idle time before you can play them in the MMO and vice versa, I can see that working.
For example, in the MMO, maybe you are sneaking into someone's headquarters to steal some information about force deployment, well you certainly can't swap your character to FiS stuff. But if you finish that and go back to your ship, maybe? Hmm.
I dunno, seems like no matter what you do, having a separate game entirely for the MMO stuff would preclude it involving your EVE character at all. I mean, you wanna go do something at some corp's headquarters, you gotta fly some stealthy ship over in EVE, swap games, do stuff, swap games again, then fly back?
I think that an MMO thing would require that you play a different character from your EVE character, and then we still feel like our EVE avatars are just our ships and the Capsuleer becomes irrelevant.
If it were a separate game, what kind of link would the two games have? |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 01:40:00 -
[107] - Quote
Carver DiGriz wrote:Incoming derail. Apologies. As OP did not know WiS (nee ambulation), FIS, etc., I am wondering if he hasn't done himself the excellent service of grabbing Clear Skies 1 and Clear Skies 2? Fan-made EvE flicks of +3 awesome with shipoard moseying and a couch. So very good. Not canon, but good. I haven't, but I will on your recommendation. Thanks. |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
235
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 01:41:00 -
[108] - Quote
Borun Tal wrote:Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it...
Becasue EVE is more than that. EVE is supposed to be the ULTIMATE sci fi simulator. It's not there yet. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
888
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 01:52:00 -
[109] - Quote
Pop Bear wrote:I don't get it? Whats all the fuss over WIS? If it ever gets implemented into the game, it's just going to be a as boring as the room is!!! CCP have clearly stated that WIS will NOT be a FPS. So even if we get WIS, whats there to do? Walk around for 10 minutes, hang at a virtual bar / casino / office / market etc... get bored, cry on the forums cause it sucks, reload hanger view, never use it again and forget all about it? Without any form of combat, theft, griefing, whatever... not only will it not fit with the type of game that Eve is, where anything goes but it's just going to be boring as hell and completly pointless IMO. Now, if you could dock, load station, open the damn door, and be able to start cracking some skulls... that would be beyond awesome!!!
Actually IF WIS opens so many new options for Eve it also closes definitively a lot of option because of the player base rather than real interest or not of something no one knows what it would look like whatsoever. What seems to be quite easy to imagine, and clear for everyone, is that if I should start playing rogue in stations I'd rather choose another game better suited for it.
...and I already see so many bitter vets crying about their pod price and how it would be unfair to be backstab by an 1K sp!! ... loose the 60day lvl5 skill "grandma-pie" sucks !! ... they deserve titans on station because they're high sp, commitment deserves better rewards than for everyone else blah blah blah usual sh+»t
|
Ai Shun
405
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 04:38:00 -
[110] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:[quote=Ai Shun]i don't know that a separate game is really the same thing. I think that people are kinda wanting it to be similar to the current Captain's Quarters implementation, just with that damned station door unlocked and things to do beyond it.
I am envisaging the following:
(a) A set of skills that are specific to a WiS environment / player. (b) A set of cross-over skills (Trade, Social, etc.) that are shared between the two (c) A capsuleer character being useable in WiS game (d) The WiS game itself being an optional data / add-on pack for EVE FiS client for players that don't want it or want both (Current with door unlocked or current with no door) (e) The WiS game beign a stand-alone client as well for players that do not want FiS (Station / Planetary environments only) (f) Development handled by the World of Darkness team, using their assets and knowledge to flesh out a game along a similar line as what they planned for WoD (g) ISK being the cross-game currency (f) Predominantly aimed at free to play with PLEX as the primary funding; although I do think there is scope for a vanity based Microtransaction store
So those capsuleers that want to engage in WiS can do so from the EVE Client. Those that don't can ignore it, don't have the download, etc. Those players that want a pure WiS environment and want to be a space bartender; they can do it as well. |
|
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 14:07:00 -
[111] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:[quote=Ai Shun]i don't know that a separate game is really the same thing. I think that people are kinda wanting it to be similar to the current Captain's Quarters implementation, just with that damned station door unlocked and things to do beyond it. I am envisaging the following: (a) A set of skills that are specific to a WiS environment / player. (b) A set of cross-over skills (Trade, Social, etc.) that are shared between the two (c) A capsuleer character being useable in WiS game (d) The WiS game itself being an optional data / add-on pack for EVE FiS client for players that don't want it or want both (Current with door unlocked or current with no door) (e) The WiS game beign a stand-alone client as well for players that do not want FiS (Station / Planetary environments only) (f) Development handled by the World of Darkness team, using their assets and knowledge to flesh out a game along a similar line as what they planned for WoD (g) ISK being the cross-game currency (f) Predominantly aimed at free to play with PLEX as the primary funding; although I do think there is scope for a vanity based Microtransaction store So those capsuleers that want to engage in WiS can do so from the EVE Client. Those that don't can ignore it, don't have the download, etc. Those players that want a pure WiS environment and want to be a space bartender; they can do it as well. That's a pretty decent gameplan. I'd imagine, though, that integration with the EVE client for Caspuleers would only come after the game is already out as a standalone client for a while. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
347
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 14:54:00 -
[112] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:[quote=Ai Shun]i don't know that a separate game is really the same thing. I think that people are kinda wanting it to be similar to the current Captain's Quarters implementation, just with that damned station door unlocked and things to do beyond it. I am envisaging the following: (a) A set of skills that are specific to a WiS environment / player. (b) A set of cross-over skills (Trade, Social, etc.) that are shared between the two (c) A capsuleer character being useable in WiS game (d) The WiS game itself being an optional data / add-on pack for EVE FiS client for players that don't want it or want both (Current with door unlocked or current with no door) (e) The WiS game beign a stand-alone client as well for players that do not want FiS (Station / Planetary environments only) (f) Development handled by the World of Darkness team, using their assets and knowledge to flesh out a game along a similar line as what they planned for WoD (g) ISK being the cross-game currency (f) Predominantly aimed at free to play with PLEX as the primary funding; although I do think there is scope for a vanity based Microtransaction store So those capsuleers that want to engage in WiS can do so from the EVE Client. Those that don't can ignore it, don't have the download, etc. Those players that want a pure WiS environment and want to be a space bartender; they can do it as well.
Doh, you are growing brilliant by the posts. Now you just want that WiS is backburned until WoD is done and WoD team can work in some other game, plus CPP coding three separate versions of the client (EVE alone, EVE + WiS, and WiS alone), each one with its own cantankerous behavior & interaction to Tranquility & the other client versions.
Seriously, Ai Shun, your project's timeline dwarfs the already ludicrous long timeline for WiS inside of EVE.
WoD completion it's about three years in the future, plus then start working on WiS... if the client interaction was finished in the process, then maybe they could finish the WiS content in a couple years. So, we are talking about 5 years minimum... EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% non-Highsec residents.
Change that! Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470 |
OfBalance
Caldari State
208
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 15:34:00 -
[113] - Quote
lol artfag thinks EVE is too impersonal.
:get out: |
Ai Shun
406
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 18:06:00 -
[114] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:That's a pretty decent gameplan. I'd imagine, though, that integration with the EVE client for Caspuleers would only come after the game is already out as a standalone client for a while.
I'd see that as an immediate requirement; because the players that want WiS from an EVE perspective will form the core of the game's launch population. Of course, they'd need to put World of Darkness on the back burner or scratch it entirely; but I'd rather have EVE Universe extended than World of Darkness.
|
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 19:22:00 -
[115] - Quote
OfBalance wrote:lol artfag thinks EVE is too impersonal.
:get out: I like what you did there, adding "***" at the end of of noun to make it a derogatory name. You know, that's creative, guy. I'm impressed. Really... really.... ::YAWN:: impressed... ZZzzzz.....
Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:That's a pretty decent gameplan. I'd imagine, though, that integration with the EVE client for Caspuleers would only come after the game is already out as a standalone client for a while. I'd see that as an immediate requirement; because the players that want WiS from an EVE perspective will form the core of the game's launch population. Of course, they'd need to put World of Darkness on the back burner or scratch it entirely; but I'd rather have EVE Universe extended than World of Darkness. It seems to me that's the oppinion of most people on these forums. Does anyone really want to see WoD? |
Ai Shun
407
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 20:15:00 -
[116] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:It seems to me that's the oppinion of most people on these forums. Does anyone really want to see WoD?
I do. But I want EVE more.
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1969
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 22:22:00 -
[117] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:Borun Tal wrote:Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it... Becasue EVE is more than that. EVE is supposed to be the ULTIMATE sci fi simulator. It's not there yet.
Why does Eve have to have space pants and dance emotes to make it the ULTIMATE sci fi simulator?
It's already the ultimate sci fi simulator...no need to cram second life roleplayer nonsense into it.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ai Shun
408
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 22:27:00 -
[118] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Montevius Williams wrote:Borun Tal wrote:Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it... Becasue EVE is more than that. EVE is supposed to be the ULTIMATE sci fi simulator. It's not there yet. Why does Eve have to have space pants and dance emotes to make it the ULTIMATE sci fi simulator? It's already the ultimate sci fi simulator...no need to cram second life roleplayer nonsense into it.
It is amusing seeing you repeat the same lines over and over. You'd have failed a Turing test by now for being unable to respond outside of a narrow set of choices. You can't even see there may be other aspects - even if you personally don't care for them.
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1972
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 22:35:00 -
[119] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:It is amusing seeing you repeat the same lines over and over.
And I'll keep repeating them until somebody can answer my questions.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
235
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 22:36:00 -
[120] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Montevius Williams wrote:Borun Tal wrote:Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it... Becasue EVE is more than that. EVE is supposed to be the ULTIMATE sci fi simulator. It's not there yet. Why does Eve have to have space pants and dance emotes to make it the ULTIMATE sci fi simulator? It's already the ultimate sci fi simulator...no need to cram second life roleplayer nonsense into it.
If you think EVE is the ultimate sci fi simulator now, you need to go watch/read more scifi books/movies. |
|
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 22:37:00 -
[121] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Montevius Williams wrote:Borun Tal wrote:Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it... Becasue EVE is more than that. EVE is supposed to be the ULTIMATE sci fi simulator. It's not there yet. Why does Eve have to have space pants and dance emotes to make it the ULTIMATE sci fi simulator? It's already the ultimate sci fi simulator...no need to cram second life roleplayer nonsense into it. It is amusing seeing you repeat the same lines over and over. You'd have failed a Turing test by now for being unable to respond outside of a narrow set of choices. You can't even see there may be other aspects - even if you personally don't care for them. This is true. It's pretty pathetic. I mean, I don't have a problem with others not liking roleplayers, but to have an attitude that your way is the only way the game is meant to be played? On a damned sandbox game?
Ladie Harlot wrote: And I'll keep repeating them until somebody can answer my questions.
No one is answering that question because it's a dumb misrepresentation. Pro-WiS players don't talk about wanting dance emotes and "space pants", we talk about exploration, socialization, and meaningful representation of our characters. Not sure I'd even want dance emotes to exist in the game.
And almost all of us agree that the idea situation would be the ability to do more cool sci-fi movie stuff like chilling in a Star Wars-ey cantina or meeting in secret in some remote derelict space station to organize a back-alley deal.
The problem here is that you are pretentious and think that only your vision of EVE can possibly be right. You would probably **** yourself in rage if I told you that all I do in the game is sit around my captain's quarters and play dress up, just because you think that no one else can be happy in a way that's different than the way you achieve happiness. (Note: I dont' actually do that, just using that as an example) |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1972
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 22:42:00 -
[122] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Montevius Williams wrote:Borun Tal wrote:Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it... Becasue EVE is more than that. EVE is supposed to be the ULTIMATE sci fi simulator. It's not there yet. Why does Eve have to have space pants and dance emotes to make it the ULTIMATE sci fi simulator? It's already the ultimate sci fi simulator...no need to cram second life roleplayer nonsense into it. It is amusing seeing you repeat the same lines over and over. You'd have failed a Turing test by now for being unable to respond outside of a narrow set of choices. You can't even see there may be other aspects - even if you personally don't care for them. This is true. It's pretty pathetic. I mean, I don't have a problem with others not liking roleplayers, but to have an attitude that your way is the only way the game is meant to be played? On a damned sandbox game?
Explain how having a human shaped avatar is inherently more "sci-fi" than flying a spaceship. What is it about the ability to buy more space pants in the microtransaction store makes the game an "ultimate sci-fi emulator".
Also, I'm not telling anybody how the game is meant to be played. I'm just making sure that CCP follows through on their promise to focus on Eve content instead of wasting time on crap that only a tiny, tiny group of players cares about.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 22:49:00 -
[123] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote: Explain how having a human shaped avatar is inherently more "sci-fi" than flying a spaceship. What is it about the ability to buy more space pants in the microtransaction store makes the game an "ultimate sci-fi emulator".
Also, I'm not telling anybody how the game is meant to be played. I'm just making sure that CCP follows through on their promise to focus on Eve content instead of wasting time on crap that only a tiny, tiny group of players cares about.
Having a human shaped avatar isn't more sci-fi. Having the ability to control a human shaped avatar and do other cool sci-fi stuff is more sci fi than a game that only has spaceships.
And if you aren't saying how EVE should be played, if we had a hypothetical model of development where FiS progresses precisely as it would without any WiS content, but the WiS content is still added, would you be opposed to that?
And how do you justify the assertion that only a tiny percentage of people want WiS content? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1975
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 22:58:00 -
[124] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Having a human shaped avatar isn't more sci-fi.
I know.
Quote:And if you aren't saying how EVE should be played, if we had a hypothetical model of development where FiS progresses precisely as it would without any WiS content, but the WiS content is still added, would you be opposed to that?
CCP ignored Eve for two years while working on WiS. If they had the ability to do both they would have done it. If, in the future, when all the FiS problems have been addressed and they want to add dance emotes or whatever I won't care but we're a long, long way off from fixing all the space content problems.
Quote:And how do you justify the assertion that only a tiny percentage of people want WiS content?
Hardly anybody quit when they announced they were putting WiS on the backburner and focusing on actual Eve content. Also, if you look at Issler Dainze's "threadnaught" there are only a handful of people crying about WiS content and the rest of the thread is people trolling them for it. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 23:11:00 -
[125] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Having a human shaped avatar isn't more sci-fi. I know. Quotemining? That's how you get your jollies? Like a damn child. Can't argue the point so you change the thing you are responding to.
Not even sure why you are in this discussion if you aren't trying to convince us of anything.
Quote: CCP ignored Eve for two years while working on WiS. If they had the ability to do both they would have done it. If, in the future, when all the FiS problems have been addressed and they want to add dance emotes or whatever I won't care but we're a long, long way off from fixing all the space content problems.
You don't know what "hypothetical" means, do you?
Quote:
Hardly anybody quit when they announced they were putting WiS on the backburner and focusing on actual Eve content. Also, if you look at Issler Dainze's "threadnaught" there are only a handful of people crying about WiS content and the rest of the thread is people trolling them for it.
You think that it's a measure of how many people want a feature to look at how many people quit if that feature is put on the backburner? You seem to think the attitude of everyone else is that if they don't get exactly what they want, they just quit the game. Or maybe we are more mature than that? |
Ai Shun
408
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 23:49:00 -
[126] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Explain how having a human shaped avatar is inherently more "sci-fi" than flying a spaceship.
Explain how any science fiction universe only had flying spaceships in it. Spaceships are a large and very important component of it. There is however a lot more to it than that.
Think.
Did Han / Luke and all the rest spend all of their time in the Millenium Falcon? Did Captain Kirk spend all his time on the Enterprise? Did Captain Reynolds and the crew spend all of their time onboard Serenity?
No. There was a science fiction out there with stories, lore and a lot more.
Ladie Harlot wrote:What is it about the ability to buy more space pants in the microtransaction store makes the game an "ultimate sci-fi emulator".
That type of misrepresentation does **** all for your credibility. You are deliberately misrepresenting the position to denigrate it; which is starting to give me the hint you are either totally ******* dumb or incapable of forming a more coherent position on it.
Quote:wasting time on crap that only a tiny, tiny group of players cares about.
Quote me the numbers, please.
|
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 23:52:00 -
[127] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Explain how having a human shaped avatar is inherently more "sci-fi" than flying a spaceship. Explain how any science fiction universe only had flying spaceships in it. Spaceships are a large and very important component of it. There is however a lot more to it than that. Harlot wants EVE to be "PIXAR's "Spaceships".
The Cars universe thousands of years in the future.
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1992
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 00:23:00 -
[128] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:That type of misrepresentation does **** all for your credibility.
LOL
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ai Shun
408
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 00:28:00 -
[129] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Harlot wants EVE to be "PIXAR's "Spaceships".
The Cars universe thousands of years in the future.
She is not wrong about the importance of the FiS component. You have said it, I have said it and a number of those that desire WiS have said it as well.
FiS is more important than WiS in terms of EVE. Nothing should happen to WiS that will compromise FiS. But, there is scope to develop WiS.
Better to talk about it and make sure it delivers meaningful content when they get around to doing it than getting rubbish because we stayed silent. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1993
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 00:28:00 -
[130] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:You think that it's a measure of how many people want a feature to look at how many people quit if that feature is put on the backburner?
If you don't think the number of people canceling their subscriptions for a game that survives on subscriptions is important then you are dumb.
I'll try to make this really, really simple for you.
CCP ignored Eve for two years to develop WoD and WiS. A bunch of people got fed up and quit. CCP lost a ton of money and had to lay off 20% of their employees. They committed to working on Eve again and put WiS and the backburner. People who had quit started coming back.
If there was some huge population that cared about WiS they would have quit when CCP announced that it was on the backburner but there is no evidence that this happened. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1993
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 00:30:00 -
[131] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:FiS is more important than WiS in terms of EVE. Nothing should happen to WiS that will compromise FiS. But, there is scope to develop WiS.
Not all of you believe this. In the other big WiS thread Issler Dainze is actively insulting developers who are fixing Eve but not working on WiS.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1993
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 00:32:00 -
[132] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Harlot wants EVE to be "PIXAR's "Spaceships".
The Cars universe thousands of years in the future.
I'm not sure where you're pulling Pixar from but, yes, Eve Online is spaceships. It always has been and always will be. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ai Shun
408
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 00:39:00 -
[133] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Not all of you believe this.
There are unreasonable people across all aspects of the game. Hence, I said "a number of those that desire WiS have said it as well" |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1994
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 00:43:00 -
[134] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Not all of you believe this. There are unreasonable people across all aspects of the game. Hence, I said " a number of those that desire WiS have said it as well"
The problem is that there are so few pro-WiS players that it's easy for it to look like one of you speaks for the rest. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 00:46:00 -
[135] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:You think that it's a measure of how many people want a feature to look at how many people quit if that feature is put on the backburner? If you don't think the number of people canceling their subscriptions for a game that survives on subscriptions is important then you are dumb. I'll try to make this really, really simple for you. CCP ignored Eve for two years to develop WoD and WiS. A bunch of people got fed up and quit. CCP lost a ton of money and had to lay off 20% of their employees. They committed to working on Eve again and put WiS and the backburner. People who had quit started coming back. If there was some huge population that cared about WiS they would have quit when CCP announced that it was on the backburner but there is no evidence that this happened.
So, WiS begins work, lots of people leave.
WiS stops work, not many people leave.
And that means that everyone hates WiS, not that everyone hates FiS being ignored?
Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Harlot wants EVE to be "PIXAR's "Spaceships".
The Cars universe thousands of years in the future.
I'm not sure where you're pulling Pixar from but, yes, Eve Online is spaceships. It always has been and always will be.
Not surprised you don't get it, trolls don't get real people humor.
See, in the Cars universe, planes, trains, and automobiles pilot themselves. You don't see drivers, they aren't really needed.
You seem to want EVE to stay as a game where ships are basically autonomous, where the lore and a little portrait in the corner suggest that a person is there, but the person doesn't matter at all. In fact, you could remove the portrait and just be playing a game in a universe that has Autonomous ships and nothing else. Like the Cars universe thousands of years in the future. |
Shade Severii
Satan's Escorts MIDGET CHUCKERS
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 00:51:00 -
[136] - Quote
i didn't read the post as the first sentence bored me to tears
Just came to say I ******* LOVE BREAKFAST AND I DON'T GIVE A **** ABOUT PANTS |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1994
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 00:54:00 -
[137] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:So, WiS begins work, lots of people leave.
WiS stops work, not many people leave.
And that means that everyone hates WiS, not that everyone hates FiS being ignored?
:cripes:
This is why I usually just post about dance emotes and space pants. Space Barbie enthusiasts are apparently unable to comprehend anything more complex. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ai Shun
408
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 00:55:00 -
[138] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Not all of you believe this. There are unreasonable people across all aspects of the game. Hence, I said " a number of those that desire WiS have said it as well" The problem is that there are so few pro-WiS players that it's easy for it to look like one of you speaks for the rest.
I don't know that. CCP has not released any survey data of the player-base to state what the situation is. I suppose your guess is as good as mine |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 00:56:00 -
[139] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:So, WiS begins work, lots of people leave.
WiS stops work, not many people leave.
And that means that everyone hates WiS, not that everyone hates FiS being ignored? :cripes: This is why I usually just post about dance emotes and space pants. Space Barbie enthusiasts are apparently unable to comprehend anything more complex. Excuse me, sir.
Did people leave because they didn't like WiS, or did they leave because they felt FiS was suffering?
I'm so ready to just block your posts. You don't care about convincing anyone, you care about making yourself feel superior to others. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1996
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 00:59:00 -
[140] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote: See, in the Cars universe, planes, trains, and automobiles pilot themselves. You don't see drivers, they aren't really needed.
You seem to want EVE to stay as a game where ships are basically autonomous, where the lore and a little portrait in the corner suggest that a person is there, but the person doesn't matter at all. In fact, you could remove the portrait and just be playing a game in a universe that has Autonomous ships and nothing else. Like the Cars universe thousands of years in the future.
Now I understand. You don't have the cognitive ability nor the imagination to play a game unless you have a human-shaped avatar. The pod pilot or capsuleer lore of Eve is too complex for you.
It makes sense why you want to take our deep, complex game and dumb it down. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1996
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 00:59:00 -
[141] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:I'm so ready to just block your posts.
Do it. You'll be happier in life.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Terminal Insanity
Convex Enterprises
302
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:01:00 -
[142] - Quote
I started playing for the ruthless pvp options available
I was an oldschool MUD fan (teleporting noobs directly to me and killing them ftw) I played tons of Neverwinter Nights in a PVP server called Neversummer. I used to hunt people in the towns and then everyone would form up hunting parties to kill me \o/
Eve is one of the few games that really let you have fun, instead of just let you shoot NPC's |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:02:00 -
[143] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote: See, in the Cars universe, planes, trains, and automobiles pilot themselves. You don't see drivers, they aren't really needed.
You seem to want EVE to stay as a game where ships are basically autonomous, where the lore and a little portrait in the corner suggest that a person is there, but the person doesn't matter at all. In fact, you could remove the portrait and just be playing a game in a universe that has Autonomous ships and nothing else. Like the Cars universe thousands of years in the future.
Now I understand. You don't have the cognitive ability nor the imagination to play a game unless you have a human-shaped avatar. The pod pilot or capsuleer lore of Eve is too complex for you. It makes sense why you want to take our deep, complex game and dumb it down.
I see. You can't possibly respond to my arguments, so you instead try to insult me and ignore my points.
Tell me more about how the existence of avatars damage EVE's gameplay. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1996
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:04:00 -
[144] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Tell me more about how the existence of avatars damage EVE's gameplay.
Read back a few posts where I describe how CCP ignored real Eve content for two years to bring you those avatars.
Better yet, just go ahead and block my posts so you can continue to believe that you're not simple.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1996
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:05:00 -
[145] - Quote
Also, NOFATCHX The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:06:00 -
[146] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:I'm so ready to just block your posts. Do it. You'll be happier in life. Maybe I will. But first, I have a question.
Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future? |
Kolya Medz
Kolya Inc.
54
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:06:00 -
[147] - Quote
I would rather be able to customize the outside of my ship than the inside. At least I would be able to see it and appreciate it when I'm engaging in actual game play. |
Nimbus Cloud Liebrum
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:09:00 -
[148] - Quote
Kolya Medz wrote:I would rather be able to customize the outside of my ship than the inside. At least I would be able to see it and appreciate it when I'm engaging in actual game play.
i second this. Peaceful Explorer |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:10:00 -
[149] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Tell me more about how the existence of avatars damage EVE's gameplay. Read back a few posts where I describe how CCP ignored real Eve content for two years to bring you those avatars. Better yet, just go ahead and block my posts so you can continue to believe that you're not simple. I already responded to that you pretentious moron.
I offered you a hypothetical situation where WiS content could be developed without effecting the development of FiS content. I asked you if you would be opposed to the development of the features if this were the case.
You instead demonstrated a lack of mental flexibility, because the hypothetical did not represent reality, so you could not process it.
Please, prove me wrong. Show me why WiS content is actually inherently bad for EVE, aside from the history of it's attempted implementation. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
460
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:11:00 -
[150] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:I'm so ready to just block your posts. Do it. You'll be happier in life. Maybe I will. But first, I have a question. Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future? Not if it's WiS, then EVE can go **** itself. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
|
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:13:00 -
[151] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:I'm so ready to just block your posts. Do it. You'll be happier in life. Maybe I will. But first, I have a question. Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future? Not if it's WiS, then EVE can go **** itself. Irrelevant to my question, and an obvious dodge. Please answer the question if you are going to attempt to answer. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1996
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:13:00 -
[152] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote: Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future?
Eve is already a long-term success. If they continue fixing bugs, iterating on existing features and adding more spaceship content it will continue to be so.
If they lose focus again and start catering to people like you then the same thing will happen: Subscribers will leave, layoffs will happen, etc. For the moment it looks like CCP has learned the lesson and we have to make sure they don't get misled by roleplayers. Or fatties. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:14:00 -
[153] - Quote
Nimbus Cloud Liebrum wrote:Kolya Medz wrote:I would rather be able to customize the outside of my ship than the inside. At least I would be able to see it and appreciate it when I'm engaging in actual game play. i second this.
I like this idea too. Paint jobs, adjusting the placement of hardpoints somewhat, customization is always healthy for a game. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
460
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:14:00 -
[154] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:KrakizBad wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:I'm so ready to just block your posts. Do it. You'll be happier in life. Maybe I will. But first, I have a question. Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future? Not if it's WiS, then EVE can go **** itself. Irrelevant to my question, and an obvious dodge. Please answer the question if you are going to attempt to answer. I'm sorry you are unable to understand a conditional answer. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1996
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:14:00 -
[155] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:I offered you a hypothetical situation where WiS content could be developed without effecting the development of FiS content.
Why deal in hypotheticals when we have real-world experience to draw upon?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ai Shun
408
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:14:00 -
[156] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future?
I'll bite, but first a question in return. What is EVE?
|
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:15:00 -
[157] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote: Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future?
Eve is already a long-term success. If they continue fixing bugs, iterating on existing features and adding more spaceship content it will continue to be so. If they lose focus again and start catering to people like you then the same thing will happen: Subscribers will leave, layoffs will happen, etc. For the moment it looks like CCP has learned the lesson and we have to make sure they don't get misled by roleplayers. Or fatties. It seems I was not clear, or you were deliberately attempting to dodge my question.
Do you want EVE to CONTINUE to be a long-term success? Do you want the game to be available for you to play in the future? |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
460
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:17:00 -
[158] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote: Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future?
Eve is already a long-term success. If they continue fixing bugs, iterating on existing features and adding more spaceship content it will continue to be so. If they lose focus again and start catering to people like you then the same thing will happen: Subscribers will leave, layoffs will happen, etc. For the moment it looks like CCP has learned the lesson and we have to make sure they don't get misled by roleplayers. Or fatties. It seems I was not clear, or you were deliberately attempting to dodge my question. Do you want EVE to CONTINUE to be a long-term success? Do you want the game to be available for you to play in the future? Not if it's WiS, then EVE can go **** itself. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:17:00 -
[159] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:I offered you a hypothetical situation where WiS content could be developed without effecting the development of FiS content. Why deal in hypotheticals when we have real-world experience to draw upon? We have an example of WiS content begin developed without impacting FIS content? When did that happen? |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:18:00 -
[160] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote: Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future?
Eve is already a long-term success. If they continue fixing bugs, iterating on existing features and adding more spaceship content it will continue to be so. If they lose focus again and start catering to people like you then the same thing will happen: Subscribers will leave, layoffs will happen, etc. For the moment it looks like CCP has learned the lesson and we have to make sure they don't get misled by roleplayers. Or fatties. It seems I was not clear, or you were deliberately attempting to dodge my question. Do you want EVE to CONTINUE to be a long-term success? Do you want the game to be available for you to play in the future? Not if it's WiS, then EVE can go **** itself. What if it's without WiS? |
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1996
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:19:00 -
[161] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote: Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future?
Eve is already a long-term success. If they continue fixing bugs, iterating on existing features and adding more spaceship content it will continue to be so. If they lose focus again and start catering to people like you then the same thing will happen: Subscribers will leave, layoffs will happen, etc. For the moment it looks like CCP has learned the lesson and we have to make sure they don't get misled by roleplayers. Or fatties. It seems I was not clear, or you were deliberately attempting to dodge my question. Do you want EVE to CONTINUE to be a long-term success? Do you want the game to be available for you to play in the future?
I answered your question.
(I know you want me to say "Yes" just so that you can go "Aha! But they have to add space pants and dance emotes for it to CONTINUE to be a long-term success!!1!!1!" You're not very subtle...)
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:20:00 -
[162] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future? I'll bite, but first a question in return. What is EVE? Cool. EVE changes, as do most games, but it's at it's core an MMORPG about piloting, trading, and building ships and resources, as well as engaging in combat and social interactions. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:22:00 -
[163] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote: Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future?
Eve is already a long-term success. If they continue fixing bugs, iterating on existing features and adding more spaceship content it will continue to be so. If they lose focus again and start catering to people like you then the same thing will happen: Subscribers will leave, layoffs will happen, etc. For the moment it looks like CCP has learned the lesson and we have to make sure they don't get misled by roleplayers. Or fatties. It seems I was not clear, or you were deliberately attempting to dodge my question. Do you want EVE to CONTINUE to be a long-term success? Do you want the game to be available for you to play in the future? I answered your question. (I know you want me to say "Yes" just so that you can go "Aha! But they have to add space pants and dance emotes for it to CONTINUE to be a long-term success!!1!!1!" You're not very subtle...) No, you did not answer my question, and I would not be so bold as to assume that adding WiS content is the only way to make EVE a success. My question served a different purpose.
It's not a hard question. I can understand that you think I'm trying to be sneaky, but I'm really not. I'm not good at being sneaky.
In fact, I'll change the question to add the qualifier "Assuming that Eve never includes WiS content". |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
460
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:24:00 -
[164] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future? I'll bite, but first a question in return. What is EVE? Cool. EVE changes, as do most games, but it's at it's core an MMORPG about piloting, trading, and building ships and resources, as well as engaging in combat and social interactions. This explains everything. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:27:00 -
[165] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future? I'll bite, but first a question in return. What is EVE? Cool. EVE changes, as do most games, but it's at it's core an MMORPG about piloting, trading, and building ships and resources, as well as engaging in combat and social interactions. This explains everything. I understand that you feel I have an innacurate understanding of the game. I'm new to the game, so you are probably right. Could you tell me what is incorrect about this? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1997
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:30:00 -
[166] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:KrakizBad wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Do you want EVE to be a long-term success? Would you like it if the game continued to be available to play for years in the future? I'll bite, but first a question in return. What is EVE? Cool. EVE changes, as do most games, but it's at it's core an MMORPG about piloting, trading, and building ships and resources, as well as engaging in combat and social interactions. This explains everything. I understand that you feel I have an innacurate understanding of the game. I'm new to the game, so you are probably right. Could you tell me what is incorrect about this?
Why are you so hostile? The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
460
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:33:00 -
[167] - Quote
Somewhere, and I wish I had the link handy, Tippia did an excellent rundown of how literally everything in EVE was PVP. I think of all content, she identified one single thing that wasn't , but TBH I can't remember or imagine what it was (maybe roleplaying).
Thinking of EVE as a game where you incidentally engage in combat along other tasks is a little off. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:37:00 -
[168] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Somewhere, and I wish I had the link handy, Tippia did an excellent rundown of how literally everything in EVE was PVP. I think of all content, she identified one single thing that wasn't , but TBH I can't remember or imagine what it was (maybe roleplaying).
Thinking of EVE as a game where you incidentally engage in combat along other tasks is a little off.
Thank you for this. Seriously, thank you for your response. No, I understand what you mean. Everything from the combat to the competition for control of space to market manipulation has a strong PVP element.
So, allow me to correct my response to Ai Shun. EVE is a game about struggling for dominance against other players in a far-future universe of space combat, corporate power, and resource control. |
Selinate
682
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:40:00 -
[169] - Quote
Borun Tal wrote:Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it...
Because, like most MMO's, the 'space-stuff' is still underdeveloped in terms of fun.
I still can't manually fly my ship other than with point and click.
I still have no throttle.
I have no manual targeting system.
Hence comes to name "spreadsheets online" from most people. |
Ai Shun
408
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:49:00 -
[170] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Cool. EVE changes, as do most games, but it's at it's core an MMORPG about piloting, trading, and building ships and resources, as well as engaging in combat and social interactions.
In that instance yes, I want to see EVE grow.
Nazzer Dawk wrote:EVE is a game about struggling for dominance against other players in a far-future universe of space combat, corporate power, and resource control.
Same as above.
However, to answer your not so subtly loaded question. WiS / Avatars / whatever is not required for that to happen. I *personally* believe it will be a bonus, but it is not a requirement. |
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Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 01:51:00 -
[171] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:Cool. EVE changes, as do most games, but it's at it's core an MMORPG about piloting, trading, and building ships and resources, as well as engaging in combat and social interactions. In that instance yes, I want to see EVE grow. Nazzer Dawk wrote:EVE is a game about struggling for dominance against other players in a far-future universe of space combat, corporate power, and resource control. Same as above. However, to answer your not so subtly loaded question. WiS / Avatars / whatever is not required for that to happen. I *personally* believe it will be a bonus, but it is not a requirement. I was not taking the question that direction. I had another reason for asking it. That's why I included the caveat to Harlot that the question could be answered with the assumption that WiS would never exist. |
Ai Shun
408
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 02:02:00 -
[172] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:I was not taking the question that direction. I had another reason for asking it. That's why I included the caveat to Harlot that the question could be answered with the assumption that WiS would never exist.
Do we get to see it?
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Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
36
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 02:18:00 -
[173] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Nazzer Dawk wrote:I was not taking the question that direction. I had another reason for asking it. That's why I included the caveat to Harlot that the question could be answered with the assumption that WiS would never exist. Do we get to see it? Sure, since Harlot will likely avoid the question.
Browsing around these forums, I expected a level of hostility. I am over a decade into my internet community career, and have dealt with my share of trolls.
But the EVE forums are giving me something other than just trolls. I am getting people who are openly hostile to change, incredibly rude, and who cannot respond to a calm, civil post with civil answers.
I'm overjoyed at some of the respectful disagreement I've gotten in this board, and I expected that. Ai Shun, you have been fairly decent to me, and I appreciate that. There've been some other reasonable responses, and I appreciate that.
But looking at other threads, seeing other discussions, many people really don't seem to care about the quality of the community.
EVE is a great game, one that holds a unique place in the gaming industry. But it's also go a venomous element to the out-of-game experience, one that is especially notorious.
Some message boards for other games have a great community/developer relationship. But places like this board, where some really horrid people post with no regard for the feelings of others, begin to resemble 4chan. It's disappointing.
Venomous communities give games a bad reputation. And I hope that EVE doesn't get ruined by it's own community, like many other games have been. It might not die anytime soon. But it will certainly be limited from it's potential as long as it is impossible for newcomers to feel welcome. |
Lilliana Stelles
Nagrom Security Syndicate Flatline.
32
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 02:27:00 -
[174] - Quote
This is by far the best thread I've seen in ages. I was severely disappointed when they slowed work on WiS. MMOs are about socialization and immersion; without them, you may as well just play a text-based adventure by yourself. Something about the avatar allows you to feel the scale of the game and the significance of your actions.
There'll be alot of hate in this thread from people who are all (keep the spaceship sim in space!) but honestly, the change has only been positive. Eve has always had profiles and avatars; it's far time that they were fully implemented. I've heard more criticism of Incarna than positive feedback; but you'll also notice that those same people have very distinct, customized, posed, decorated appearances that they obviously spent time on.
Personally, my vision for Eve is to one day own or moderate an establishment in NPC nullsec. The idea is that warring, hostile alliance members would actually see the faces and the people behind who they were fighting. Instead of the horrid, mandatory local silence and/or trashtalk that normally restricts communication between warring factions, we'd actually see a general respect develop between players. As of right now, they may as well be nameless and faceless, when you see them as nothing more than blinking red dots in space that rarely speak to you.
Not everyone will agree, but I think that WiS will be the single most revolutionary development for Eve since capital ships. |
Ai Shun
409
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 02:31:00 -
[175] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:Venomous communities give games a bad reputation. And I hope that EVE doesn't get ruined by it's own community, like many other games have been. It might not die anytime soon. But it will certainly be limited from it's potential as long as it is impossible for newcomers to feel welcome.
The short answer would be "HTFU". The slightly longer answer would be to link to Permaband and the CCP version of it. The community mirrors the game and attracts and keeps the people that are attracted to the HTFU attitude from CCP and the players. PvP from trading, Incursions, ship spinning (Yes, it has a competitive counter) all the way through to the forums.
"If you are going to follow us to the top - harden the **** up" |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1999
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 02:38:00 -
[176] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:But the EVE forums are giving me something other than just trolls. I am getting people who are openly hostile to change, incredibly rude, and who cannot respond to a calm, civil post with civil answers.
Maybe if you were here for the two years that Eve was ignored you'd understand the anger.
Do you often join games and immediately start telling its long-term players how their game should be run? The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1999
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 02:39:00 -
[177] - Quote
Lilliana Stelles wrote:There'll be alot of hate in this thread from people who are all (keep the spaceship sim in space!) but honestly, the change has only been positive.
Yes the Summer of Rage, thousands of players canceling their accounts and CCP having to lay off 20% of their employees were all very positive. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Lilliana Stelles
Nagrom Security Syndicate Flatline.
32
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 02:53:00 -
[178] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Lilliana Stelles wrote:There'll be alot of hate in this thread from people who are all (keep the spaceship sim in space!) but honestly, the change has only been positive. Yes the Summer of Rage, thousands of players canceling their accounts and CCP having to lay off 20% of their employees were all very positive.
Despite an overall trend of player growth? Thousands of antisocial players wanting an impersonal simulation game left, in favor of a much more marketable, personable game? Sounds like they got rid of people who didn't need to be there: Mostly players who would only discourage a new audience from joining the game in the first place. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2000
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 02:56:00 -
[179] - Quote
Lilliana Stelles wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Lilliana Stelles wrote:There'll be alot of hate in this thread from people who are all (keep the spaceship sim in space!) but honestly, the change has only been positive. Yes the Summer of Rage, thousands of players canceling their accounts and CCP having to lay off 20% of their employees were all very positive. Despite an overall trend of player growth? Thousands of antisocial players wanting an impersonal simulation game left, in favor of a much more marketable, personable game? Sounds like they got rid of people who didn't need to be there: Mostly players who would only discourage a new audience from joining the game in the first place.
The only reason the overall trend shows growth is because people came back to the game after Crucible.
The formula is very simple: When CCP ignores Eve players quit. When they focus on Eve they get more subscribers.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Lilliana Stelles
Nagrom Security Syndicate Flatline.
32
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 03:00:00 -
[180] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:The only reason the overall trend shows growth is because people came back to the game after Crucible.
The formula is very simple: When CCP ignores Eve players quit. When they focus on Eve they get more subscribers.
Right. Crucible finally released the new Captain's Quarters. Reason enough to come back. |
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Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2000
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 03:01:00 -
[181] - Quote
Lilliana Stelles wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:The only reason the overall trend shows growth is because people came back to the game after Crucible.
The formula is very simple: When CCP ignores Eve players quit. When they focus on Eve they get more subscribers.
Right. Crucible finally released the new Captain's Quarters. Reason enough to come back.
You got me. Players rushed back for three more rooms that melt video cards.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2000
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 03:02:00 -
[182] - Quote
So all the roleplayers should be happy now, right? The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics Bringers of Death.
637
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 03:13:00 -
[183] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote: --EDITED POST TO BE MORE CLEAR-- I ... like EVE ... because ... there's ... no ... bl... ack people.
Agree or not, the man has a point. |
Ai Shun
409
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 03:14:00 -
[184] - Quote
Lilliana Stelles wrote:Right. Crucible finally released the new Captain's Quarters. Reason enough to come back.
Is that a troll or do you really think people came back for that? It's not even close to WiS. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2002
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 03:15:00 -
[185] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Lilliana Stelles wrote:Right. Crucible finally released the new Captain's Quarters. Reason enough to come back. Is that a troll or do you really think people came back for that? It's not even close to WiS.
YES IT IS LILLIANA STELLES SAID SO
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 03:42:00 -
[186] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Lilliana Stelles wrote:Right. Crucible finally released the new Captain's Quarters. Reason enough to come back. Is that a troll or do you really think people came back for that? It's not even close to WiS. I'll have to agree with you. I'm pretty sure people left because they felt CCP wasn't paying the game enough attention, and came back because CCP finally released SOMETHING so they could get back to FiS stuff.
Quick question, it seems to me that people are exaggerating when they say that they spent 2 years to build one room. Wasn't there a lot of stuff going on with Carbon or something during that time? |
Kaivar Lancer
General Exports
96
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 04:08:00 -
[187] - Quote
Nazzer Dawk wrote:
And after that? I need to walk around and customize my ship's interior. You guys don't understand, I -NEED- it. It's the thing that will make me a life-long EVE player, I can say that now. I don't want to be playing with spaceship toys in the backyard like EVE currently feels like, I want to be a ship captain. And part of being a captain is being on the ship, seeing out the viewport.
+1. So many times I've wished to be able to fly a ship from a 1st person POV i.e. a cockpit or control room. It would add alot to immersion. |
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