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Author	Topic
mishkof Caldari Finis Lumen	Posted - 2008.08.07 13:47:00 - [481] Originally by: Sergeant Spot High Sec suicide piracy should be a serious money LOSER unless the target is fitted with / hauling extreme wealth. (If the target does have a multi billion fit on his raven, then all bets are off....) Its that simple. If you want more freedom to blast away, get the hell out of high sec. I've been saying it for years: IGNORE the high sec carebears. I never have, and never will, comprehend why so many idiots seem OBSESSED with shooting at them. Shoot at something else. This. I simply dont understand the obsession either. Are you mad that they make 20 mil an hour doing the most mind numbing thing ever created? Seriously, some people will cry when their milk isnt spilled. I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response. []hate me []troll me []smack me
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.07 14:43:00 - [482] Originally by: mishkof This. I simply dont understand the obsession either. Are you mad that they make 20 mil an hour doing the most mind numbing thing ever created? Seriously, some people will cry when their milk isnt spilled. What do you think would happen if CCP decided that level 4 high sec missions are too rewarding (which they are), and decided to cut profits by 70%? I mean, you can still run your missions, right? Then what is there to cry about? I'd say the forums would have an eruption that would rival St. Helens.
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 14:56:00 - [483] Edited by: Exlegion on 07/08/2008 15:04:19 Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette What do you think would happen if CCP decided that level 4 high sec missions are too rewarding (which they are), and decided to cut profits by 70%? I mean, you can still run your missions, right? Then what is there to cry about? I'd say the forums would have an eruption that would rival St. Helens. I'd say PVP hardcores would still complain that no one's flocking to low sec to be masacred by the game elitists and thus, CCP should nerf high sec even more. Their motto: "Drive them to my guns or drive them out." And thankfully, unlike them, CCP sees value in keeping them around. My advice to you is let them be. I moved out of high sec a long time ago and haven't looked back ever since. I don't care what's going on in high sec nor am I in any way envious of what players are doing up there. I run my missions in low sec and run about in 0.0 only worrying on who's waiting for me at the corner to take me out. Edit: Oh, and if high sec space isn't dark or harsh enough for you try low/0.0 sec. Careful though. People do shoot back over there. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Andrea Skye Caldari The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.08.07 15:07:00 - [484] None of this will really affect me, being a -10 already... But i have to say, i think they have overdone it with the no-insurance change. Some people made a living out of scuicide ganking, and was one of the many options in eve to making isk. CCP, dont ruin the game, the reason eve is so great because people can choose what they want to do. By doing this your removing an option of gameplay.
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.07 15:16:00 - [485] Nice dodge there, Exlegion, but you didn't answer my question at all. Originally by: Exlegion I'd say PVP hardcores would still complain that no one's flocking to low sec to be masacred by the game elitists and thus, CCP should nerf high sec even more. Their motto: "Drive them to my guns or drive them out." PvP hardcores don't complain about that. Numbnuts complain about that. PvP hardcores have followed their prey into high sec. Now they've been nerfed yet again. Guess your motto is "Make Eve a carbear game or I quit". So far it's worked out well for you. Originally by: Exlegion And thankfully, unlike them, CCP sees value in keeping them around. My advice to you is let them be. I moved out of high sec a long time ago and haven't looked back ever since. I don't care what's going on in high sec nor am I in any way envious of what players are doing up there. I run my missions in low sec and run about in 0.0 only worrying on who's waiting for me at the corner to take me out. Good for you that you managed to find a pile of other carebears (Hydra) to play with. So what you are saying is that you want two games. A PvE game in high sec and a PvP(ish) game in low-sec and 0.0. Well, it seems CCP is working towards it, but that's never been their stated intention in the past. Originally by: Exlegion Edit: Oh, and if high sec space isn't dark or harsh enough for you try low/0.0 sec. Careful though. People do shoot back over there. How's Hydra working out for you right now when TRI is messing about? It's a matter of time before you're back in Empire, so I wouldn't be gloating too much if I were you.
Juleko	Posted - 2008.08.07 15:17:00 - [486] Originally by: Andrea Skye None of this will really affect me, being a -10 already... But i have to say, i think they have overdone it with the no-insurance change. Some people made a living out of scuicide ganking, and was one of the many options in eve to making isk. CCP, dont ruin the game, the reason eve is so great because people can choose what they want to do. By doing this your removing an option of gameplay. Problem is the existing mechanic of suicide ganking with insurance payouts makes it profitable to gank everything. Once again for the benefit of the cheap seats - CCP haven't nerfed suicide ganking, they've raised the bar at which you start to make a profit. It is, and will forever be profitable to gank something carrying/fitting several hundred millions of ISK - so nothing has changed in that regard at all. I find it absolutely staggering that people talk about there being "no risk in Eve anymore" when they're proponents of an activity which is entirely risk-free. There is irony somewhere in people whining about risk in the same sentence as bemoaning the lack of insurance.
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.07 15:31:00 - [487] Originally by: Juleko Problem is the existing mechanic of suicide ganking with insurance payouts makes it profitable to gank everything. The problem is that people actually believe this. It was NEVER profitable to gank everything. Some people did it for lulz, but that doesn't make it profitable. The people who keep insisting that this was the case are people who have never suicide ganked anyone. The only experience they have - if any - was as the victim. Of course it seems simple after the gank is over. That doesn't mean it was. Originally by: Juleko Once again for the benefit of the cheap seats - CCP haven't nerfed suicide ganking, they've raised the bar at which you start to make a profit. It is, and will forever be profitable to gank something carrying/fitting several hundred millions of ISK - so nothing has changed in that regard at all. No, what CCP has done is make raised the bar so high it's nigh impossible to be profitable while suicide ganking. It's not like it was raining targets before. Now there are even more restrictions. Again, this is a matter of people not having any experience/having one sided experience. Originally by: Juleko I find it absolutely staggering that people talk about there being "no risk in Eve anymore" when they're proponents of an activity which is entirely risk-free. There is irony somewhere in people whining about risk in the same sentence as bemoaning the lack of insurance. Again, it was never risk-free. It was never easy. It might have required a tweak to bring it into balance, but this is far from a tweak. This is a sledge-hammer blow. The reason why so many people are upset, however, doesn't really have much to do with the changes themselves. It has more to do with the fact that the recent changes to Eve mark a clear drive toward a more casual-friendly game, aimed at a bigger market. Since it's inception, this game has been a niche game for a special kind of audience. Now it's going away from that, and the people who played the game for its niche have nowhere else to go. After all, there are a hundred different PvE focused games on the market. There is 1 PvP focused game. That's being ruined.
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 15:45:00 - [488] Edited by: Exlegion on 07/08/2008 15:48:49 Maximillian Bayonette, If you have something to say about my alliance take it to CAOD. Either way I don't care. Your comments don't insult me. And honestly I really could care less whether you hate me for being a carebear or not. Unlike you, I derive no pleasure from others' miseries. I find these 'It's the end of Eve! Run for cover!' threads a bit hipocritical and ironic. Eve is toughening up for the high sec free lunchers. Sorry you don't see it that way. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Fitzwelin	Posted - 2008.08.07 15:46:00 - [489] One question. Why does removing the insurance payment from ganking in high sec space ACTUALLY stop people from doing it?? All these posts saying I cant gank!, I'm going to leave!, CCP are ruining my game! You CAN still gank, you CAN gank as much as you ever did before only this time you will also suffer a penalty.
Basic Miner Caldari Navy II	Posted - 2008.08.07 15:50:00 - [490] Only noob pvp'ers manage to whine about this gift :) This will make suicide ganking easier, now everyone will think hi sec is safe and put on autopilot ;...; _______________________________________ [Insert catchy/cool phrase here]

Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.07 15:57:00 - [491] Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 07/08/2008 15:48:49 Maximillian Bayonette, If you have something to say about my alliance take it to CAOD. No, I'll say it here, thanks. It's quite ironic how you continue to prove the reputation of HYDRA with every post you make. Originally by: Exlegion Either way I don't care. Your comments don't insult me. And honestly I really could care less whether you hate me for being a carebear or not. Cared enough to post, apparently. I'll have to think up new ways of insulting you, because you are in sore need of insulting. It might make you think about the rubbish that you spew on the forums. Originally by: Exlegion Unlike you, I derive no pleasure from others' miseries. You know nothing of me or my motives. Unlike you, I care about the game and I knew what kind of a game it was when I joined it. I had no reason to have it change from the way it used to be. Upgraded, yes. Balanced, yes. But this? No. This is so far from the stated original vision that its getting rediculous. Originally by: Exlegion I find these 'It's the end of Eve! Run for cover!' threads a bit hipocritical and ironic. That's because you're looking at this through carebear blinders. You're not seeing the big picture and the complete change of mentality. You're not seeing the similarities between what's happening in Eve and what happened to many other MMO's who tried to cater to the "lowest-common-denominator" masses and failed. If CCP keeps up with this new trend, Eve will die. It is proven by history. Originally by: Exlegion Eve is toughening up for the high sec free lunchers. Sorry you don't see it that way. This is one of the stupidest arguments that continue to be posted on the forums. It's once again evidence of your narrow vision. It get's tougher for suicide gankers (your "free lunchers", although you're completely wrong about that) and as a consequence, it gets a whole heap easier for AFKers, macroers, stupid and lazy people. That is what we are protesting. Catering to those cathegories is signing the death warrant for a game.
Juleko	Posted - 2008.08.07 15:59:00 - [492] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Originally by: Juleko Problem is the existing mechanic of suicide ganking with insurance payouts makes it profitable to gank everything. The problem is that people actually believe this. It was NEVER profitable to gank everything. Some people did it for lulz, but that doesn't make it profitable. The people who keep insisting that this was the case are people who have never suicide ganked anyone. The only experience they have - if any - was as the victim. Of course it seems simple after the gank is over. That doesn't mean it was. You most likely know more than I do, however using some conservative figures: Raven - 75M T2 Torp, BCS & ammo fit - ~2M Plat insurance - 33M Plat ins. payout - 108M Cost after payout - 2M If you figure 6-7 clones of the above being enough to take down any ship before CONCORD are on grid in a 0.5 you're looking at a total cost of around 15M. Are those numbers wrong or is there another aspect to it I'm not understanding? Are you going to tell me that 6-7 like minded individuals taking the time to scan someone in Motsu/Irjunen or wherever somehow adds a huge cost element to this?
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:28:00 - [493] Edited by: Exlegion on 07/08/2008 16:28:54 I'll ignore your ad hominems. Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette You know nothing of me or my motives. Unlike you, I care about the game and I knew what kind of a game it was when I joined it. I had no reason to have it change from the way it used to be. Upgraded, yes. Balanced, yes. But this? No. This is so far from the stated original vision that its getting rediculous. This change mostly affects the 'free lunchers' in high sec. If you operate in low/0.0 it won't affect you for worse. Quite the contrary. It is boosting low sec by bringing the bulk of the fight to it. Not only that, but it might actually bring life to the anti-pirate profession, as now the sec hits won't be as bad. The only players with reason to fear this change are those looking for easy grief-style PVP. Quote: You're not seeing the big picture and the complete change of mentality. You're not seeing the similarities between what's happening in Eve and what happened to many other MMO's who tried to cater to the "lowest-common-denominator" masses and failed. If CCP keeps up with this new trend, Eve will die. It is proven by history. Granted, I haven't played many MMO's. In fact, it has only been Eve and Earth & Beyond (for those that care in remembering :(). In any case, I don't share your view that Eve will die with these changes. Low sec and 0.0 still cater to the hardcore PVP'er. And I suspect it always will. Again, the only ones that will be affected by these changes are the few bottom feeders operating in high sec space. Quote: It get's tougher for suicide gankers (your "free lunchers", although you're completely wrong about that) and as a consequence, it gets a whole heap easier for AFKers, macroers, stupid and lazy people. That is what we are protesting. Catering to those cathegories is signing the death warrant for a game. Haha! That's the beauty of it! The lazy AFKers (as you call them) may think it gets easier, but they'll be in for a surprise. The intelligent high sec PVPers will still be able to operate in high sec successfully. I suspect that the ones in it for more than just shits and giggles will actually welcome the challenge, as has already been posted in many of the threads about. A high-value untanked industrial will still yield a high enough profit to those that plan. To the "lulz" gankers it will turn out to be a greater loss. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:56:00 - [494] Originally by: Juleko Raven - 80M T2 Torp, BCS & ammo fit - ~5M Plat insurance - 33M Plat ins. payout - 108M Cost after payout - 10M Those are more realistic figures. This means every suicide gank attempt costs the ganker 10M in ISK alone. There are other things to factor in as well, but let's stick with pure isk loss for the moment. Now, what if the targets got a bit smarter? Like, for instance, fitted a passive tank? Do you think a Badger II can withstand the force of an overheated torp raven in a .6 system until CONCORD arrives? No? Well, it can, if properly tanked. This is not EFT talking either, I've seen it. Adding to that, the Badger had already survived a suicide attempt. So, a lonely T1 hauler AFKing through Empire survived two suicide attempts. So, there's one counter that has been proven to work: Fitting your ship properly. Secondly, what do you think would have happened if the hauler had not been AFK? How many suicide attempts? I will tell you: 0. Because there isn't enough time to lock, scan, calculate and pop a hauler that is actually playing the game. So, there's two proven counters. There are more, but that's enough for now. Originally by: Juleko If you figure 6-7 clones of the above being enough to take down any ship before CONCORD are on grid in a 0.5 you're looking at a total cost of around 15M. If you are speaking about Freighters, it's closer to 20 ships. Using my more realistic numbers, that's 200M per ATTEMPT. On top of that, there are the security penalties and the killrights. Originally by: Juleko Are those numbers wrong or is there another aspect to it I'm not understanding? Are you going to tell me that 6-7 like minded individuals taking the time to scan someone in Motsu/Irjunen or wherever somehow adds a huge cost element to this? If you are talking about mission runners, in my opinion, 6-7 dedicated people scanning and popping a pimped out isk-mobile is good for the game. Those 6-7 people SHOULD be well rewarded. Because they managed to take advantage of stupidity. That should be the highest rewarding profession in the game. Also, again using my numbers, these people are facing around 70 millions in loss + security penalties if they fail. Depending on the time it took them to find the mission runner, they would have to increase the potential reward to make it worth while. Let's say the mission runner has 1 billion in fittings. With 50/50 drop chance, provided it's not just one valuable module, the gankers can expect around 500M to share. That's about 71.5M a piece. Deduct the 10M and we're looking at just over 60 a piece. Now, let's say the gankers had to wait three hours to find their victim (very common when suicide ganking) that's around 20M an hour. Now we're at the level of which a high sec mission runner can make. Deduct the security penalties, and the reward is even less. A mission runner gets IMPROVED security rating, so his reward is already higher. Now, if there was just a singler item that was valuable, there would be a 50/50 chance for it to drop. That is, there is a 50% chance that the gankers gain 40M (double the previous due to total drop) + sec penalties, and there's a 50% chance they lose 10M + sec penalties. The point of this post is that most people don't really know what they are talking about when it comes to suicide ganking because they have no experience.
Juleko	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:49:00 - [495] Cmon man, you're extending scenarios to breaking point to prove your arguments. I don't believe for one second that a group of 6-7 gankers sit around for three hours looking for target(s), or a specific target. All they would need to do - as you well know - is add a juicy target to their addressbook, monitor their online patterns and use locator agents when they're online. In short - gankers can just drop what they were already doing at a moments notice to get into their already prepared gankships to go and kill the target. Secondly, you suggest that its typical for a single gank raven to take on a Badger II knowing full well that the Badgers tank fit could make the difference between success and failure? Quite frankly that scenario would never happen unless the ganker was plain stupid. Why leave anything to chance at all? Just bring alone one or two more torp Ravens and completely negate whatever tank said Badger has? Again, a contrived argument engineered to make it sound like there is actually an element of risk involved. As for talking about targets - I wasn't referring to freighters, I was thinking more about pimped out mission ships. I'd wager it wouldn't take more than 7 torp Ravens to take out ANY battleship regardless of the tank, and that group of 7 can dictate where and when that fight takes place. And please don't try and suggest that suicide gankers speculatively lock, scan and attack people who just appear on the gate in a system - they will have alts who will have already scanned the ships coming out of the missioning stations hours or even days ago. The way you make suicide ganking sound is like it's some completely speculative and variable encounter when it isn't. So, 7 torp Ravens who - assuming the pilots are clever enough to be able to lock a target and hit F1-F6 - will be guaranteed to kill their target before CONCORD show up in a sufficiently low security system, and as long as the can drops at least 70M they will make a profit. That pretty much puts every single ship with a half-decent faction module in that camp. If you get a faction invuln field then you're looking at a near 300% profit - from one module. Incidentally as a final point - you state that "what do you think would have happened if the hauler had not been AFK". The answer? Nothing at all. WTZ doesn't grant immunity - I've read threads on here from people who have been ganked who were ganked in a mission, undocking (now that you're thrown out of docking range), on the gate in a new system en route to wherever they were going, etc. If you can lock a BS in less time than it takes to align - with or without sensor boosters - then that person is dead. Doesn't matter what they activate, or if they overload, or what. The cards are totally stacked in the ganker teams favour, and this change seeks to raise the cutoff point for profitability. It doesn't change the dynamic of suicide ganking, it just means that it will cost more than 70M to gank with 100% success rate any non-freighter target in the game.
Beltantis Torrence	Posted - 2008.08.07 19:56:00 - [496] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Nice dodge there, Exlegion, but you didn't answer my question at all. PvP hardcores don't complain about that. Numbnuts complain about that. PvP hardcores have followed their prey into high sec. Now they've been nerfed yet again. Guess your motto is "Make Eve a carbear game or I quit". So far it's worked out well for you. You failed when you called suicide ganking unarmed ships 'hardcore PVP'. Its easy mode, x3, with cheats enabled. There's nothing hardcore about it. Are you 'hardcore' martial arts if you can break a board that isn't trying to hit you back?
Jeremy Paxman Special Doc	Posted - 2008.08.07 20:02:00 - [497] What you fail to realise is this: Hello Kitty Online is really f****** good. You've obviously never played. -------------------- In Soviet Cornwall, cows tip you.
Synapse Archae Amarr Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.08 01:29:00 - [498] Juleko: It really does take more than 3 hours. You can spend half a day staring at traffic and not find anything interesting. I'm telling you this from personal experience. Are you? Originally by: CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
Veldya Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.08.08 02:33:00 - [499] Originally by: Juleko Cmon man, you're extending scenarios to breaking point to prove your arguments. I don't believe for one second that a group of 6-7 gankers sit around for three hours looking for target(s), or a specific target. All they would need to do - as you well know - is add a juicy target to their addressbook, monitor their online patterns and use locator agents when they're online. In short - gankers can just drop what they were already doing at a moments notice to get into their already prepared gankships to go and kill the target. An XL Gist or Pith shield booster is 1-2 billion. Caldari Invulns 300m+, then there are all the engineering, bcs, launchers, etc. It is a very lucrative business. I believe Triumverate had 40 people working on ganking mission runners. Jihadswarm had countless ganking barges and exhumers. It has and does still happen. Many groups made a living off of preying on mission runners and knowing they are in a PvE fit which needs a very specific tank if you scan a raven and it is setup to tank KIN/THE and you tackle it and hit it with 5 T1 EMP Ravens then it is going to go down like a lead balloon, the cost to the gankers, probably in the vicinity of $50m, the potential payout is in the billions. Suicide ganking has caused a massive depression in faction+ items, the demand for them has plummeted because of the ease of ganking. People don't use those modules as much anymore because you light up like a Christmas tree if you use these modules. EVE is not meant to be lawless, in high-sec it is meant to be hard on pirates. It is silly we have ships like State Ravens we will NEVER have the pleasure of seeing flying around because of their rarity and value every idiot is going to want to destroy it, so we never get to see them. High end modules are more of a liability than benefit with ganking and if obtaining those aren't part of the pinnacle of the game then what is? Flying around with cheap T1 fits doing the same thing over and over? To think people are claiming this change is going to ruin the game when they should be looking in the mirror and see who has forced these changes is quite laughable.
Korin Veecolectus Caldari Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2008.08.08 02:51:00 - [500] Suicide gankers should pay the penalty. Criminal activity is downright stupid. Taking advantage of others is also stupid. Would you like some cheese with that whine? I wish high sec was even more policed. If you break the law, you pay the price. Having a criminal mind doesn't make you smart. It makes you an idiot.

Rawk Awn Minmatar Encina Technologies	Posted - 2008.08.08 03:06:00 - [501] @ page 17, tl;dr Griefer tears taste the sweetest. /me waves bye bye to the bottom-feeders.
Gark32 Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.08 03:17:00 - [502] Originally by: Korin Veecolectus Suicide gankers should pay the penalty. Criminal activity is downright stupid. Taking advantage of others is also stupid. Would you like some cheese with that whine? I wish high sec was even more policed. If you break the law, you pay the price. Having a criminal mind doesn't make you smart. It makes you an idiot. Obvious Troll is Obvious. i'm sure someone said it already, but these changes are actually good for the career suicide gankers among us -- carebears will think that they're safe in Hisec, and gankers will find more juicy targets. ________________________________________________
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.08 03:28:00 - [503] The Emo is strong with this thread. The sun will rise tomorrow. Pirates will still sit deeply stoned camping gates and giggling like schoolgirls with each hauler kill. The lag will still suck so hard out in 0.0 that it blows everyone's hair back. And, of course, there will still be 600 in local in Jita.
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.08 04:50:00 - [504] Just a trivial little factoid for people who may or may not care - WTZ does not make you immune to gate camps in hisec. An industrial ship or freighter is very slow to turn and accelerate. There are tricks that can be used, such as having an escort come with you to webify you after you make the turn - this means that your current speed of 10m/s becomes more than 75% of your maximum webified speed. However, you still have to make that turn. The time it takes a Iteron V to turn 45 degrees and accelerate to warp speed is more than enough for a script-boosted tackler to get a target lock and activate the warp scrambler. WTZ does not make you safe. To be "safe", you need to fit a tank and fit your hauler out for maximum agility so that noone can lock on to you before you enter warp. Not even the guy in the tackler frigate with the target painter and warp scrambler. Does the removal of insurance payouts for CONCORD events raise the stakes? Yes it does! First, it means suicide gankers will be looking for more ISK value before ganking you. Second, it means carebears like myself can start fitting more valuable modules on our ships without being too worried about getting suicide ganked. As the veteran population gets more skills, better sources of income, ability to fly better ships, etc, the new players need to have some kind of safety net. Hisec should be the safest place to fly, and moving to lower rated hisec areas should give the new players some cause for concern. Remember that a new player who does nothing but run missions for ISK will only be raising their security status slowly compared to the dedicated suicide ganker who spends their time ratting in 0.0. Eventually the mission-runners will find that level 4 missions aren't exciting anymore and they'll go looking for something else. When they go forming noob fleets and heading out to level 5 agents, that will be your opportunity to teach them about PvP in losec. There will be a time when even carebears like myself will go looking for PvP - this will be after I have established a stable income, after I have sequestered my +5 implant mission-running flesh in a jump clone station and have my naked flesh in a cheap throwaway ship, in a Faction Warfare corp. Is CCP clearly catering to the carebears by increasing the cost of suicide ganking? I don't think so. Certainly, the required ISK value of a target must be higher to accommodate the lack of 110% payout on platinum insurance. Certainly, you have to be careful about picking your targets. It is also certain that carebears will become more complacent and fly their expensively fitted mission-running gankbait to places they really shouldn't be going. This is not the end of suicide ganking for profit - it will certainly cramp your style if you're into suicide ganking for lolz.
SPIONKOP Caldari Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.08.08 08:27:00 - [505] I have been waiting for this change for a long long time. Now the suicide gankers will have to think about the risk v reward. Still plenty of folks who think they can carry a high value BPO in a shuttle on AP to gank. Rest of us will be a little safer now. --------------------------------------------- Space For Rent. 100mil ISK/Week.
Purgatori Minmatar Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.08 09:13:00 - [506] Comming from a player who played since day 1 , Only one i seem strange is the insurance .. Gankers should be about.. so taking the insurance away isnt the best idea. You still shouldnt be 100% safe in empire. We get bad guys in rl .. so you should here.. Maybe a "Pirate" Indsurance .. where its not as high as deemed a "good" guy's insurance or a % of kills must be repaid to the "pirate" insurance .. But no insurance... nooo... why are we making it too easy on them? i have a empire guy also..and even I dont want it this easy... please return eve to hardcore mode..
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.08.08 09:24:00 - [507] Originally by: Mara Rinn There will be a time when even carebears like myself will go looking for PvP - this will be after I have established a stable income, after I have sequestered my +5 implant mission-running flesh in a jump clone station and have my naked flesh in a cheap throwaway ship, in a Faction Warfare corp. Are you boring in real life to? SKUNK
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.08 09:46:00 - [508] Welp. Eve had a great run while it lasted. Not saying it's doomed ofc, but this is just pathetic. I'll play until the servers shut down, but these are backbreaking changes. "sandbox." lol
Frenetick Minmatar New World Federation	Posted - 2008.08.08 09:55:00 - [509] Edited by: Frenetick on 08/08/2008 09:56:36 Originally by: Onionico Welp. Eve had a great run while it lasted. Not saying it's doomed ofc, but this is just pathetic. I'll play until the servers shut down, but these are backbreaking changes. "sandbox." lol Damn those 'backbreaking' changes ..... Quote: 1. At least a dozen more topics in various forums 2. Use of extreme hyperbole, Comparisons to WoW and HKO, etc 3. Claim that all CCP devs are biased in favor of BoB macrominers and farmers 4

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