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Zephyr Rengate
dearg doom
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Posted - 2008.08.07 16:44:00 -
[121]
After a certain amount of months in an NPC corp you get taxed, this would be a global tax thingy on your character so even if you switched to another NPC to try avoid the tax it would continue on, forcing you into war decable player corps.
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.08.07 16:45:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 07/08/2008 16:46:04
 Originally by: Plave Okice
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
What you're asking for is to make Eve a PvP mandatory game
Not quite true, we'd like to keep it that way, not make it that way, because that's what it's always been.
Personally I'd move any character older than 3 months old into the militia, but I know it would never happen, the newer, younger, masses wouldn't stand for it. Neither would the newer devs who never played "old eve" and really don't understand what this game used to be.
As long as I've been playing ( a while now) there have always been NPC corps that you can stay in forever, and there has always been high-sec that is relatively safe. Suicide ganking is way, way, more common now than it was three years ago.
When was it that you were required to be available for PvP in Eve (i.e. required to join a player corporation or some other entity that could become a war target)?
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.08.07 16:49:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
When was it that you were required to be available for PvP in Eve (i.e. required to join a player corporation or some other entity that could become a war target)?
Never, but that's not the point. At no time in the development of Eve have people been safe from PvP in High Sec. They don't have to be in a deccable corp.
Unconsensual PvP is one of the defining trademarks of Eve. If you either don't like it OR you can't learn to accept it (and I use the term "you" as a reference to everyone), then congratulations, you're the person that the term "gb2 WoW" was invented for.
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Lucy'Lastic
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.07 16:51:00 -
[124]
People earning lots of risk free Isk is bad because they will always have more Isk than me.
I find missions and mining boring. Why should someone who doesn't find them boring have more Isk than me?
I live in a backwater part of 0.0 and am in an Alliance and I can't make as much Isk as people who are in NPC corps. This is not fair.
Nerf people making risk free Isk because it ruins my game and isn't fair on me.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.07 16:55:00 -
[125]
When I first started, you were looked down on for hanging in NPC corps. Player corps were where you should be. Anyone caught going into losec in a newb corp was considered a spy and shot on sight, even by the 'good' guys, because those same players were still trying to avoid an entire dedication behind the game itself.
So you joined a player corp, and probably got wardec'd. Or, you went into low sec. Pirates were there, but there were also a bunch of antipirate and defense corporations. Going into lowsec wasn't a huge deal, because it was just an extension of hisec.
I don't remember a distinct 'I'm minding my own business' mentality back then, not like there is now. People want to play a single player game now, or very close to it. It's been perverted, somehow over the last year, from a massive player mentality of fight and survive, to 'i play my game, you play yours'.
But we play one game. Every item you sell cuts into my profit. And I'm risking MY life and limb to make that profit, while you have no threats.
Being ostensibly a carebear now myself, I understand why you want 'security'. But the truth is, that ain't EvE, despite what you believe. Or, maybe I am wrong. Maybe it's IS EvE, or the new EvE. Being gone for about a year and a half really made the changes from then and now noticable.
So, you want to be secure? Well, you should be restricted. Taxes to pay for your invulnerability to wardecs. Employment opportunities limited because you ARE employed with an NPC corporation already.
Here's a thought: Give each agent a limited number of missions. Either provide a first-come-first-serve approach, or one where your standings with the empire and corporation are taken into account. That way, even missioners have to compete in high-sec for the good missions.
So you want security? That's perfectly alright.
But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security. |
Plave Okice
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.08.07 16:58:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
If they change the mechanics to basically say "tough, if you want to play Eve you have to be a target"
You're missing the point, Eve is that game and has always been that game, hell, that's what has defined Eve. You have always been a target, the mechanics have been like that since day one.
For many of us taking that from the game doesn't just take away a feature but the very foundation on which the game was created.
Would you like to know more? |
Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.08.07 16:59:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
When was it that you were required to be available for PvP in Eve (i.e. required to join a player corporation or some other entity that could become a war target)?
Never, but that's not the point. At no time in the development of Eve have people been safe from PvP in High Sec. They don't have to be in a deccable corp.
Unconsensual PvP is one of the defining trademarks of Eve. If you either don't like it OR you can't learn to accept it (and I use the term "you" as a reference to everyone), then congratulations, you're the person that the term "gb2 WoW" was invented for.
It doesn't look to me like this will make them 100% safe either. However, it does look like it will make suiciding far less economically viable than it is, and not something you can do as a career, which it was never (as far as I know) intended to be. The mechanic in place from the git-go has been if you are a criminal you fairly quickly get pushed out of high-sec. They're just fixing it so that happens as intended, and it isn't so quick and easy to get back in once you're out.
Yes, there has always been unconsensual PvP in high sec in EvE, but nothing like it has been the last year. When I first started playing it was rare to see a "Concorde Convention" at a gate because someone just suicided there. Now, I can't go three jumps in any direction without seeing one. It needed addressing. I'm glad they did.
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Liz Laser
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Posted - 2008.08.07 17:01:00 -
[128]
Forced PvP is a solution for lag (as players unsubscribe), but is likely to make CCP poor.
What we need is more motivation to PvP, more reasons to risk leaving the NPC corp., and more reasons to venture into low sec.
Of course, if CCP finally gets around to providing any of these, they'll do it all at once. :-)
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.07 17:03:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
When was it that you were required to be available for PvP in Eve (i.e. required to join a player corporation or some other entity that could become a war target)?
It doesn't look to me like this will make them 100% safe either. However, it does look like it will make suiciding far less economically viable than it is, and not something you can do as a career, which it was never (as far as I know) intended to be. The mechanic in place from the git-go has been if you are a criminal you fairly quickly get pushed out of high-sec. They're just fixing it so that happens as intended, and it isn't so quick and easy to get back in once you're out.
Yes, there has always been unconsensual PvP in high sec in EvE, but nothing like it has been the last year. When I first started playing it was rare to see a "Concorde Convention" at a gate because someone just suicided there. Now, I can't go three jumps in any direction without seeing one. It needed addressing. I'm glad they did.
Never, but that's not the point. At no time in the development of Eve have people been safe from PvP in High Sec. They don't have to be in a deccable corp.
Unconsensual PvP is one of the defining trademarks of Eve. If you either don't like it OR you can't learn to accept it (and I use the term "you" as a reference to everyone), then congratulations, you're the person that the term "gb2 WoW" was invented for.
This post started before the new dev blog. We haven't even been talking about the security fix. It's a different issue altogether. It is more concerned with the mentality that EvE is two games, one PvP, and one solely PvE. That mentality is false, at least it was, and the belief is that there needs to be some ways to rectify it so that PvP is not cast aside as the foundation of the game.
So you want security? That's perfectly alright.
But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security. |
Cassandra Beckinsale
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Posted - 2008.08.07 17:20:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Cassandra Beckinsale on 07/08/2008 17:21:57
Originally by: Lucy'Lastic
People earning lots of risk free Isk is bad because they will always have more Isk than me.
I find missions and mining boring. Why should someone who doesn't find them boring have more Isk than me?
I live in a backwater part of 0.0 and am in an Alliance and I can't make as much Isk as people who are in NPC corps. This is not fair.
Nerf people making risk free Isk because it ruins my game and isn't fair on me.
What are you talking about? Because you think missions are boring people who do them should get nerfed? People who run missions use their time and money to buy ships and equipment to run missions, of course they should be rewarded at the end.
If a person does 10 missions per day he is expected to have more money then the guy who flies 2 missions a day only. If you can't make profit in 0.0 ground blame only yourself, you can't simply get money without working for it.
Based on your concept of thinking, "one cannot have more money then me". What way of thinking is that? Man how old are you?
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Cassandra Beckinsale
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Posted - 2008.08.07 17:51:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Cassandra Beckinsale on 07/08/2008 17:56:02
Edited by: Cassandra Beckinsale on 07/08/2008 17:54:19
What I see is that people want to gank and kill only. EVE has a PVP feature yes, but its no 100% PVP (TAN TAAN!). All players can combat yes, but only if they train for it, or, if they actually enjoy doing it. Not eveyone is willing to combat you know, that's what makes EVE so special and unique.
EVE is about making money, its NOT about PVP, without money you can't PVP. You can choose to be Fighter, Mission Runner, Manufacturer, Trader, Pirate, Pirate Hunter, Miner, Researcher, or... Suicidal Ganker. You can even combine these rolls and eventually, with time, become all of these. Still whatever path you might decide to go first, you will need money to make more money.
EVE must have a secure place for people who do not combat (90%, 100% safe I don't care, but much safer then the one we have at the moment) and a space much less secure for PVP oriented players. If think this translates in High-Sec and Low-Sec. So, why the all the fuss?
If you want to PVP go low-sec, otherwise stay in high-sec, why? Low-sec is not enough? high security space should be less rewarding right? That also means ganking for free should also be dealt with, and guess what, CCP finally fixed this.
All that you guys care is about ganking others for free or being able to kill anyone in anywhere. Since EVE has only one server which deals with both PVP and PVE ,the place must be optimzed and balance for such features, if you want pure PVP go play AoC or WOW in PVP servers, or simply quit eve, you won't be missed.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.07 17:58:00 -
[132]
PvP is incorrectly associated to many newcomers as nothing but griefers and gankers. This is NOT the founding principle of EvE.
Player vs. player, be it combat, money or influence, IS the founding principle of EvE. Being completely, utterly immune to any of these should require significant losses to compensate.
EvE is about competition and survival. It's as much a bias to lump every pvper into a class of twelve-year-old, e-peen waving, sadistic wannabe killer tough-guys, as it is to lump every carebear into the class of 40-year-old, crying, can't leave their mothers house, cowardly, insecure LARPers.
So, put your groupism or whatever you want to call it aside for the sake of this argument.
So you want security? That's perfectly alright.
But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security. |
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:05:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Tippia on 07/08/2008 18:06:28
Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale
What I see is that people want to gank and kill only. EVE has a PVP feature yes, but its no 100% PVP (TAN TAAN!).
Actually, it is 100% PvP
Do you use the market? If so, you're competing with other players for best price – PvP.
Do you run missions? If so, you're competing with other players for the loot and salvage – PvP.
Do you mine? If so, you're competing with other players for the best spots and the juiciest 'roids – PvP.
Do you produce stuff? If so, you're competing with other players for the production slots and/or trying to be more efficient than they are – PvP. You also need to sell the stuff you produce, leading back to market-PvP.
Everything in ≡v≡ involves competition with other players. You're always PvP:ing.
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Cassandra Beckinsale
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:08:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Ruze
PvP is incorrectly associated to many newcomers as nothing but griefers and gankers. This is NOT the founding principle of EvE.
Player vs. player, be it combat, money or influence, IS the founding principle of EvE. Being completely, utterly immune to any of these should require significant losses to compensate.
EvE is about competition and survival. It's as much a bias to lump every pvper into a class of twelve-year-old, e-peen waving, sadistic wannabe killer tough-guys, as it is to lump every carebear into the class of 40-year-old, crying, can't leave their mothers house, cowardly, insecure LARPers.
So, put your groupism or whatever you want to call it aside for the sake of this argument.
I play EVE for fun and socialization and I need ISK to both explore and enjoy all its features, I don't compete with anyone nor the survival issue applies to my gaming style. This is proof that EVE's gameplay is much more dynamic then people think.
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Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:17:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale
I play EVE for fun and socialization and I need ISK to both explore and enjoy all its features, I don't compete with anyone nor the survival issue applies to my gaming style. This is proof that EVE's gameplay is much more dynamic then people think.
How do you make that ISK?
Where do you get the equipment you use to explore?
What features are you enjoying?
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Cassandra Beckinsale
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:21:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 07/08/2008 18:06:28
Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale
What I see is that people want to gank and kill only. EVE has a PVP feature yes, but its no 100% PVP (TAN TAAN!).
Actually, it is 100% PvP
Do you use the market? If so, you're competing with other players for best price û PvP.
Do you run missions? If so, you're competing with other players for the loot and salvage û PvP.
Do you mine? If so, you're competing with other players for the best spots and the juiciest 'roids û PvP.
Do you produce stuff? If so, you're competing with other players for the production slots and/or trying to be more efficient than they are û PvP. You also need to sell the stuff you produce, leading back to market-PvP.
Everything in ≡v≡ involves competition with other players. You're always PvP:ing.
I meant PVP physical war affairs, where both your ship and capsule pops.
And no, not everything you do is PVP related, imagine EVE where you were the only player:
- You could still do missions, loot, salvage and mine... you can do all this by playing alone, also the market has NPC Items, agents, rats etc, with fixed spawning periods. I if was playing alone the only thing I would see different would be Jita's lag and my empty overview.
EVE works even if you are playing alone in the server. That's why its not 100% PVP.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:25:00 -
[137]
Who do you think you sell your loot too?
Who do you buy your ships from?
If all players were removed from the server tomorrow, you would get SOME modules through loot, but otherwise, everything else is provided by players. You would have the bigginer frigate to fly around in.
Guiness book of World Records. EvE has the largest player-driven economy or somesuch award. Very little is made by NPC's. Heck, even shuttles aren't made by NPC's anymore, or so I've heard.
You can't loot everything. This isn't WoW, where everything can function perfectly well off of NPC drops. In EvE, things HAVE to be made. That's part of your PvP you experience, right there.
Unless you want to admit that you only use a noob frigate.
So you want security? That's perfectly alright.
But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security. |
mishkof
Caldari
Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:25:00 -
[138]
I would just like to take this oppurtunity to give a big lol at all of the people posting against noob corps, with noob corp alts.
Also, if that is your main then lol again.
My biggest problem is these messiahs of eve posting with unidentifiable characters spouting their point of view.
Give me a character name, someone who I can associate your experiances with. A track record if you will. I bet many of the people yammering about PVP dont have a history of PVP to speak of. I just read a thread about nerfing level 4 missions saying they make more money then 0.0 OPed by someone who has never been to 0.0
If you are purposely posting with an alt, then you yourselve are avoiding consequences of your speech, and putting a wall of anonymity up between you and the person you are arguing with. You point doesnt mean squat with no substance or experience to back it up.
So please. Take your own advice and take ownership of your words by either leaving the noob corp or posting with your main.
I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response.
[]hate me
[]troll me
[]smack me |
Vasili vonHolst
Minmatar
Gargamel's Lair
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:26:00 -
[139]
/Signed
And this...
Originally by: Ki An
Guys, spread the word! Start your own threads!
--->Movie: + Trillion damage to CareBear community--->LOL Pic: Mitnal R4pes! |
Cassandra Beckinsale
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:27:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Cassandra Beckinsale on 07/08/2008 18:30:13
Edited by: Cassandra Beckinsale on 07/08/2008 18:27:21
Quote:
How do you make that ISK?
Level 4 mission payments and NPC bounties.
Quote:
Where do you get the equipment you use to explore
Basically I get it from Loot, mission rewards and market. (yes T2 is made by players but you also have T1 items made by NPC so, you're answered, you can fit your ship without player made items)
Quote:
What features are you enjoying?
The feeling of me getting more skilled allowing me to unlock better ships. Soon I will go 0.0 and collect Faction Items to get my ship even more powerfull
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Joey Meow
MURAKAMI INDUSTRIES
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:31:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Ruze
Honestly, they should make hisec safer. I'm serious. Allow corporations to 'buy out' of wars, bribe CONCORDS pockets to make the invulnerable in hisec. No, I'm not joking. Combine that with this, allow NPC corporations to stay as is. LET HISEC BE SECURE!
Then, very simply, remove the profitability from high-end stuff from hisec. Remove level 4's. Don't allow mining barges or exhumers. Don't allow T2 items to be produced in hisec factories, or researched in hisec stations. Limit the maximum number of jobs that ANY player can have in hisec.
Make it so that if your over three months old, and you want to make money, you have to go out and get it. The more security you have, the more restricted you should be from making profit.
Why are you playing provocateur? I mean, you know changes like these could not be, and would not be accepted by the greater EVE community, simply because it will take all the fun out of EVE for them and they will vote with their wallets and leave, thus leaving EVE back at 14-20k active subscribers.
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Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:31:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale
I meant PVP physical war affairs, where both your ship and capsule pops.
…and that's why you don't get the PvP nature of ≡v≡.
Quote:
EVE works even if you are playing alone in the server. That's why its not 100% PVP.
By that token, CounterStrike isn't a PvP game either – it works if you're alone on the server too.
The problem is that the instant you add other players, the game immediately becomes a competition over the resources (soft competition as it may be if there's only two of you in the whole galaxy). Some parts of ≡v≡ works without other players – most do not. Without those elements, you're not really playing ≡v≡ – you need to add players to get the full game. The moment you add other players, you add PvP.
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Cassandra Beckinsale
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:34:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Joey Meow
Originally by: Ruze
Honestly, they should make hisec safer. I'm serious. Allow corporations to 'buy out' of wars, bribe CONCORDS pockets to make the invulnerable in hisec. No, I'm not joking. Combine that with this, allow NPC corporations to stay as is. LET HISEC BE SECURE!
Then, very simply, remove the profitability from high-end stuff from hisec. Remove level 4's. Don't allow mining barges or exhumers. Don't allow T2 items to be produced in hisec factories, or researched in hisec stations. Limit the maximum number of jobs that ANY player can have in hisec.
Make it so that if your over three months old, and you want to make money, you have to go out and get it. The more security you have, the more restricted you should be from making profit.
Why are you playing provocateur? I mean, you know changes like these could not be, and would not be accepted by the greater EVE community, simply because it will take all the fun out of EVE for them and they will vote with their wallets and leave, thus leaving EVE back at 14-20k active subscribers.
First you need to realise that the 'greater EVE community' is responsable for this change in higher sec, which means, they are more valuable and more numerous then the comunity against it.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:45:00 -
[144]
And there we come to my true concern:
Why are you more valuable than me? Because of money. It's like how the American government works, to be honest. We don't take bribes in America ... we do it out in the open, and call it lobying.
You and those who want to have no combat interaction with other players are MORE IMPORTANT than those who first came to the game, because there are simply more players who enjoy that style.
Don't get me wrong, I'll play EvE until it's no fun anymore, then I'll leave. If I'm morally opposed to the changes, I'll say so, but that's because we have been given the method for expressing our disapproval, or our approval, no?
But there are plenty of MMO's in the world that do exactly what your wanting. Now there's another, and your happy. Good for you.
So you want security? That's perfectly alright.
But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security. |
Cassandra Beckinsale
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:47:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Cassandra Beckinsale on 07/08/2008 18:48:23
Quote:
By that token, CounterStrike isn't a PvP game either û it works if you're alone on the server too
Well I can't force you to understand my words. I think I made my point quite clear, EVE is playable without players. You can ascend in it without needing to trade or pop anyone.
Quote:
The problem is that the instant you add other players, the game immediately becomes a competition over the resources (soft competition as it may be if there's only two of you in the whole galaxy). Some parts of ≡v≡ works without other players û most do not. Without those elements, you're not really playing ≡v≡ û you need to add players to get the full game. The moment you add other players, you add PvP.
Of course you need players to take out all of what EVE has to offer (its a MMORPG). That was not my point. My point is that YOU may choose not to interfere with a player's life in the game in order to play it or enjoy it. Not all your actions rely on the players' response. I can create stuff from reprocessed materials for myself, no one will notice the difference.
Tippia: "Yes they will, those items are no longer bought from market, you had influenced it in some way."
And if you are still thiking this way then your still failing to understand what I'm trying to say.
Later's m8.
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Cassandra Beckinsale
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Posted - 2008.08.07 19:01:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Cassandra Beckinsale on 07/08/2008 19:06:41
Edited by: Cassandra Beckinsale on 07/08/2008 19:05:13
Man this is too boring to do the quotes and paragraph breaks
Quote:
àin other words, you get it by beating other players to the punch. PvP.
No, I get them from PVE missions, I don't PVP, for now.
Quote:
Those aren't really features of the game û those are just your own goals.
My goals are bound to the game features. Exploration / trading / poping / mining / PVP... these are all features of EVE and my goals focus any of these aspects. (Notice how PVP is also described as a independent feature of EVE)
Quote:
àand guess what, you'll need to compete with other players for them. More PvP.
With or without competition I can pick up these items without needing to pop anyone.. The server can be empty I will still be able collect them.
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Sasha Dasha
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Posted - 2008.08.07 19:05:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Sasha Dasha on 07/08/2008 19:06:15
Just delete any character not in a regular player corp after 6 months of play.
This is a lynch mob right?
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Traidor Disloyal
NightCrew
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Posted - 2008.08.07 19:17:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Kage Psychodin
Many new players will never if NPC corps change to the point of what people are saying. YES, they need to be able to build up their own little fleet of ships from frigs to battleships safely. because we all already have that and more.
I stayed in my NPC corp for about a month before I joined a player corp. I had no problem making isk. I had no problem getting ships. All while NOT in an NPC corporation.
I have an alt that runs level 4 missions and has her own corp. She also keeps a low profile. Doesn't fly fancy outfitted ships, doesn't run L4's in crowded systems, doesn't smack anyone in local. She has never had a problem. And if she ever gets war decced she will join the corp this character belongs to and I will have this corp war dec the ones that war decced her. And they will stay wardecced forever.
NPC corps are starter corps. Used by NEW players to get the hang of the game. For new players to get a start for making isk. They should not be used to hide behind when you irritate someone in Eve and thus can not be "touched". That is wrong on so many levels in a PvP game.
---------------------------------------------
Love is having a second account with a cov ops pilot |
Malcanis
We are Legend
eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.08.07 19:19:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Ruze
Honestly, they should make hisec safer. I'm serious. Allow corporations to 'buy out' of wars, bribe CONCORDS pockets to make the invulnerable in hisec. No, I'm not joking. Combine that with this, allow NPC corporations to stay as is. LET HISEC BE SECURE!
Then, very simply, remove the profitability from high-end stuff from hisec. Remove level 4's. Don't allow mining barges or exhumers. Don't allow T2 items to be produced in hisec factories, or researched in hisec stations. Limit the maximum number of jobs that ANY player can have in hisec.
Make it so that if your over three months old, and you want to make money, you have to go out and get it. The more security you have, the more restricted you should be from making profit.
I'd support this. If hi-sec is to be the kindegarten of EvE, then so be it. People should be limited to kindegarten earnings.
Want to earn more than a cookie and a cup of milk? Man up and get out of hi-sec.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Cassandra Beckinsale
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Posted - 2008.08.07 19:20:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Cassandra Beckinsale on 07/08/2008 19:24:04
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale
My point is that YOU may choose not to interfere with a player's life in the game in order to play it or enjoy it.
àand my point is that you may not choose whether or not other players will interfere with your life in the game. You have no control over what other players may try to do to you. You are always subject to PvP situations.
Quote:
EVE is playable without players. You can ascend in it without needing to trade or pop anyone.
And again, following this logic means that there are no PvP games at all û everything can be played without other players. You're reducing the argument to "≡v≡ isn't 100% PvP because in the end, PvP doesn't actually exist."
"Guys I'm going to PVP for a bit",
"PVP in EVE rocks"
"PVP is only good in 0.0"
Do you know the meaning of these phrases? Of course if these phrases was said to you you would immediately say: "But you're always PVP'ing!". Please...
Man you're simply too pround to accept what I'm saying, which is fine with me. But I'm glad you have your own opinion on things and that you can argue without insults and like a grown man.
If you can't really understand my point of view then there is no point in continuing this endless discussion. When I referred to PVP I referred to its raw meaning. Not all its side effects and results it come from it. The fact EVE can be played alone makes it a non-100% PVP game. The fact you can play without interact / change another's player gameplay space its another reason why its not 100% PVP. It does not matter if the other player will interact with you or not, he has the possibility of playing without doing it. It's rarely the day players actually interfere with my gaming in EVE.
There is no way I will keep posting to your posts, I've been quite patient in explaining my point of view. You don't have to accept it or understand it so.
Take care out there.
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