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Mjeh
STRONG POLITIK
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:31:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: Mjeh
The issue is CCP caving in to the overwhelming whine. And yes, we all understand the economic principles behind it, but the guts displayed by CCP when they stated 'if you don't want to lose all your savings in a high sec gank, don't play like an idiot' was what kept some of us playing. Now no more.
Ummm... you can still get ganked in high sec. CCP didn't cave in to anyone. I suggest you actually play Eve instead of trolling in high sec for ganks. There's so much more to this game, and you're peeved that others actually do what the devs intended for people to do.
Don't for a second assume you know what I have and haven't done in EVE, because you don't.
And ... sigh... it seems I must link THIS once more, seeing as how you brought up 'intended gameplay'...
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:31:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 06/08/2008 16:31:12
Originally by: Juleko Variable CONCORD response times would be an interesting change, but I suspect that wouldn't work too well as a unilateral change.
Those are in place already, if i understood correctly.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Tatsujin Koufu
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:31:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Mjeh
Originally by: Slaver Hatastus
Originally by: Mjeh
Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu I dont see whats changed, you can still kill the chumps afking through highsec space with a hold full of isk goodness.
They're lowering concord response times, so while you can still kill chumps it will be much harder now. How much harder we don't know yet.
hard enough for it to be a challenge instead of relatively easy money, you mean?
Ignoring the point at the core of this so blatantly that I don't know why I grace your post with a reply...
Probably hard enough that you can't do it solo any more, but this remains to be seen.
Keep in mind what type of targets we're talking about here. For suicide ganks we're mostly talking about tech I haulers _AUTOPILOTING_ towards a gate. Are you telling me these targets should be a challenge?
No they should not, but at the same time its so absurdly easy to kill those targets that increasing the difficulty is'nt exactly game breaking is it?
I mean, its like your complaining that the turkey shoot got a bit harder cos you had had a few beers before you started :P
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:32:00 -
[94]
Praleon, you receive my utmost respect for your beautifully written and spot on response to this issue. Everyone who's whining should read it, think on it, then read it again and again and again until they get it.
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Tatsujin Koufu
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:33:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Mjeh
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: Mjeh
The issue is CCP caving in to the overwhelming whine. And yes, we all understand the economic principles behind it, but the guts displayed by CCP when they stated 'if you don't want to lose all your savings in a high sec gank, don't play like an idiot' was what kept some of us playing. Now no more.
Ummm... you can still get ganked in high sec. CCP didn't cave in to anyone. I suggest you actually play Eve instead of trolling in high sec for ganks. There's so much more to this game, and you're peeved that others actually do what the devs intended for people to do.
Don't for a second assume you know what I have and haven't done in EVE, because you don't.
And ... sigh... it seems I must link THIS once more, seeing as how you brought up 'intended gameplay'...
and again, do you know that this is going to be harder....
have you tested this? do you know the extra lock time variable involved?
no, did'nt think so.
Complain about it when its obviously busted, not when you dont like the idea of it
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Mjeh
STRONG POLITIK
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:33:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu No they should not, but at the same time its so absurdly easy to kill those targets that increasing the difficulty is'nt exactly game breaking is it?
I mean, its like your complaining that the turkey shoot got a bit harder cos you had had a few beers before you started :P
He he, good point.
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Slaver Hatastus
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:34:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Mjeh
Originally by: Slaver Hatastus
Originally by: Mjeh
Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu I dont see whats changed, you can still kill the chumps afking through highsec space with a hold full of isk goodness.
They're lowering concord response times, so while you can still kill chumps it will be much harder now. How much harder we don't know yet.
hard enough for it to be a challenge instead of relatively easy money, you mean?
Ignoring the point at the core of this so blatantly that I don't know why I grace your post with a reply...
Probably hard enough that you can't do it solo any more, but this remains to be seen.
Keep in mind what type of targets we're talking about here. For suicide ganks we're mostly talking about tech I haulers _AUTOPILOTING_ towards a gate. Are you telling me these targets should be a challenge?
i don't know why you "graced" me with a reply, you didn't say anything new and it was basically for your own ego.
that said - i always hesitate to bring RL into EVE but think about it, you're talkinga bout the equivalent of mugging old ladies in the street - no challenge, pretty lame, and of variable rewards. the police take notice of this behaviour and increase police patrols and arm them better so that they can stop this behaviour.
the mugger sees her as weak, slow, stupid for doing what she's doing and hey, the mugger wants to take her stuff so why shouldn't he?
the granny just wants to get home with her shopping in one piece, it's why she's taking the longer route, the route through the brighter streets with more people so she can feel safe.
but you want it to remain easier for you?
boo frigging hoo
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Mjeh
STRONG POLITIK
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:36:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu and again, do you know that this is going to be harder....
have you tested this? do you know the extra lock time variable involved?
no, did'nt think so.
Complain about it when its obviously busted, not when you dont like the idea of it
Quoting the dev blog; "CONCORD has some issues, mostly that pilots are killed long before CONCORD arrives. We have decreased the response time, meaning they will arrive quicker, and we should see a more helpful CONCORD aiding those in need."
I don't know how you interpret this, but it seems rather clear to me what it's saying...
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Mjeh
STRONG POLITIK
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:39:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Slaver Hatastus i don't know why you "graced" me with a reply, you didn't say anything new and it was basically for your own ego.
that said - i always hesitate to bring RL into EVE but think about it, you're talkinga bout the equivalent of mugging old ladies in the street - no challenge, pretty lame, and of variable rewards. the police take notice of this behaviour and increase police patrols and arm them better so that they can stop this behaviour.
the mugger sees her as weak, slow, stupid for doing what she's doing and hey, the mugger wants to take her stuff so why shouldn't he?
the granny just wants to get home with her shopping in one piece, it's why she's taking the longer route, the route through the brighter streets with more people so she can feel safe.
but you want it to remain easier for you?
boo frigging hoo
Oh no, but that's not a good analogy.
If the old lady decided to take her life savings with her for a walk on the sidewalk and then sat down on a bench for a nap, placing her valuables in plain sight for everyone to see, carelessly trusting the good intentions of her fellow citizens, then you would be getting closer to the actual scenario you're trying to describe.
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Nexa Necis
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:43:00 -
[100]
That's a bummer of a change. I don't suicide all that much really so it's not a huge deal to me.
Most of the people I have suicided are npc players who ran from wars or who refuse to make/join a corp since they fear war decs.
So basically it sounds like we lose insurance payouts and take a sec status hit. So instead of cheap T1 Brutix/Domi/Geddon solo pilot suicides, maybe we will see larger gangs of cruisers/destroyers getting in on the act.
Then what steps will CCP take? It would be nice if they slowed Concord's response time or something in exchange for no insurance payouts.
A true griefer will sacrafice a few hundred million to make someone else miserable. It won't stop me from getting my pound of flesh.
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Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:43:00 -
[101]
In other news, CCP has tweaked autopilot so it always warps to zero, and has added NPC escorts for 1 million isk an hour that prevents any attempt of suicide ganking on the t1 hauler. In a completely unrelated note, RL Isk buying prices drop to 100 mil isk for $5 dollars.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:55:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 06/08/2008 16:57:11 Edited by: Space Wanderer on 06/08/2008 16:56:29
Originally by: Mjeh I don't think people fully realize what's at stake here... As the OP title hinted at, this is CCP caving in and going back on one of their core principles.
Sorry, but you are flatly wrong on this. The core principle you are talking about is suicide ganking.
Can you still suicide gank? yes. On anybody? Yes. In any system? Yes. As soon as they undock? Yes. Your char is still playable after you have done that? Yes.
There, the core principle is still there. The only difference is that suicide gankers actually face consequences for their actions. Maybe you forgot another core principle of EVE, "each action has consequences". Or maybe you chose not to remember it. No matter.
Current game mechanics allowed suicide ganks, but made consequences so small as to not be relevant. Consequences are about to change, to nothing really unbearable. Nothing else. If you want to suicide gank on someone for fun, you can do that. Just be prepared to pay the price for your fun. If you don't want to pay that price, lowsec is there for a reason. And that does not even need to be a high price, I mean, you can gank untanked T1 haulers with cruisers, wth do you need BS?
I am disgusted by people saying "it's not right that my 5bil ship has been ganked in high sec", but it's equally disgusting to see people who think that they should be allowed to gank a 5 bil ship in 1.0 by paying only 10 mil.
Really, this is just another nanowhine, CCP is nerfing the FOTM and everybody is crying. I am sure that the pros will just adapt their tactics, using more scouts, more cruisers and BC, instead of BS. Real gankers will still prosper, just like real nanos will still prosper, because they took their time to learn hw to play the game instead of exploiting flawed game mechanics.
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Ioci
Gallente Ioci Exploration
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:58:00 -
[103]
What is it all the bad boys say to carebears?
Go to 0.0 if it bothers you that much. No concord there to muddy your game. |
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:05:00 -
[104]
This is ridiculous.
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Anndarra Winge
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:06:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Atlas Oracle the humor element in this is pretty much win... all the hardcore internet tough guys with their "eve is a harsh place" teddy bear and "adapt" mantra, crying about it being more costy to gank carebears.
Hmmmm... the taste of Pirate tears. So-so SWEET.
But come on guys, I worked out over lunch how me and a dozen friends could make lots of isk suicide ganking with disposable alts. Just takes a little organization and planning. Cost is a week of training to get the alts into half-decent ships and a couple 100k for the ships. Who cares about the security - dispose of the alt while you sweep up the loot.
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Bish Ounen
Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:07:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Mjeh
-I disagree.
-Yes.
-Like I said, I am. ;)
-No, all my lovely billions made from ganking AFKplayers and farmers are going to someone a little more deserving.
Would you consider giving your stuff to the self-described "Worst Pirate in EvE"? Namely, Me? Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
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Retorrent Changsuun
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:07:00 -
[107]
Ok after reading bout the changes I think I agree with the OP. I am a newbie to the game (only been playing bout a month)and if it wasn't for someone ganking me I would have never learned to better protect myself when hauling expensive things, I wouldn't have learned to not use AP when hauling so in all its made me a better player. I mean nothing gets my blood pumping when hauling cargo and someone locks and scans me. So why nerf it? High sec space will just be blah without some form of danger in it. I know my chara isn't ready for low sec space yet so it was cool knowing that I could still be attacked at any time it added such an element of fun getting nervous when I spotted a few ravens at a gate I realy hope it dosn't change the game too much.
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Mjeh
STRONG POLITIK
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:09:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Space Wanderer Current game mechanics allowed suicide ganks, but made consequences so small as to not be relevant. Consequences are about to change, to nothing really unbearable. Nothing else. If you want to suicide gank on someone for fun, you can do that. Just be prepared to pay the price for your fun. If you don't want to pay that price, lowsec is there for a reason. And that does not even need to be a high price, I mean, you can gank untanked T1 haulers with cruisers, wth do you need BS?
I am disgusted by people saying "it's not right that my 5bil ship has been ganked in high sec", but it's equally disgusting to see people who think that they should be allowed to gank a 5 bil ship in 1.0 by paying only 10 mil.
Really, this is just another nanowhine, CCP is nerfing the FOTM and everybody is crying. I am sure that the pros will just adapt their tactics, using more scouts, more cruisers and BC, instead of BS. Real gankers will still prosper, just like real nanos will still prosper, because they took their time to learn hw to play the game instead of exploiting flawed game mechanics.
First, this is not about the insurance money, as has been stated 50 times. Again, what's much worse is the increased ability of Concord.
I am disgusted that everyone seems to take it for granted that if you throw 10 million isk and some cruel intentions into the mix, you instantly have yourself a 4 billion isk cnr-kill. This is not true. There are many, many factors going into this equation, I'm sure you can work out at least some of them if you gave it a little more effort.
No, this isn't a FOTM-whine. It's a whine about seing CCP backing down on their principles, core principles that made EVE stand out from the rest of the MMO crowd for some of us, at the face of the Massive Forum Whine (tm). This is nothing new in the MMO world, lots of other MMOs have done it before EVE. I'm just very disappointed to see it happen with CCP. But then again, maybe it's happened before but I just didn't notice it because the change at the time didn't concern me. *shrug*
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:10:00 -
[109]
Why have insurance when we have free noobie ships?
And thank you CCP for doing something about this issue; it won't stop me from shooting at haulers but then I always did it for the isk and it wasn't about the fun.
PS thanks for lowering the hurt for low sec pirating too
Originally by: Galliana Foresta And sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cos I wouldn't eat the filthy mother ****er.
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Mjeh
STRONG POLITIK
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:11:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Bish Ounen Would you consider giving your stuff to the self-described "Worst Pirate in EvE"? Namely, Me?
He he, I would but it's already promised away to someone else - sry
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Farham
Titan Industries Technology Team
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:11:00 -
[111]
So what exactly does this break about High Sec?
You have to be more picky with your suicide ganks now. It will still be plenty worth ganking a freighter or hauler, you just have to do a little math now.
I mean seriously, suicide ganking right now is just carebearing.
Why hang around with a bunch of boobs when you can play with a nice set of TITTS?
Titan Industries Technology Team
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:17:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Nexa Necis That's a bummer of a change. I don't suicide all that much really so it's not a huge deal to me.
So basically it sounds like we lose insurance payouts and take a sec status hit. So instead of cheap T1 Brutix/Domi/Geddon solo pilot suicides, maybe we will see larger gangs of cruisers/destroyers getting in on the act.
A true griefer will sacrafice a few hundred million to make someone else miserable. It won't stop me from getting my pound of flesh.
I'm happy as I will still shoot haulers filled with loot, I will still setup groups of throw away chars in destroyers to attack haulers and people I dislike. AND the best part is that with these new rules it will take out all the carebears out of the pirating game. So I'm still happy, and will continue to be happy.
Originally by: Galliana Foresta And sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cos I wouldn't eat the filthy mother ****er.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:18:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Mjeh No, this isn't a FOTM-whine. It's a whine about seing CCP backing down on their principles, core principles that made EVE stand out from the rest of the MMO crowd for some of us
So you say, but what's the core principle they have backed down? You can still suicide gank. High sec is still not safe. The only thing I can see is that they have FIXED another core principle of this game, "actions have consequences".
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Mjeh
STRONG POLITIK
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:20:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Farham
So what exactly does this break about High Sec?
You have to be more picky with your suicide ganks now. It will still be plenty worth ganking a freighter or hauler, you just have to do a little math now.
I mean seriously, suicide ganking right now is just carebearing.
Comprehension failure?
This isn't about insurance
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:20:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Bloody Rabbit I'm happy as I will still shoot haulers filled with loot, I will still setup groups of throw away chars in destroyers to attack haulers and people I dislike. AND the best part is that with these new rules it will take out all the carebears out of the pirating game. So I'm still happy, and will continue to be happy.
This. High sec will still be dangerous. Just suicide ganking will be for professionals, not amateurs.
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Mjeh
STRONG POLITIK
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:22:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
Originally by: Mjeh No, this isn't a FOTM-whine. It's a whine about seing CCP backing down on their principles, core principles that made EVE stand out from the rest of the MMO crowd for some of us
So you say, but what's the core principle they have backed down? You can still suicide gank. High sec is still not safe. The only thing I can see is that they have FIXED another core principle of this game, "actions have consequences".
It always did, and they backed down in the sense that this is not a new "problem" but they have stood by their initial statement on the matter until the wall of whines finally got so tall that they caved in and gave the whiners what they wanted.
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Mjeh
STRONG POLITIK
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:22:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
Originally by: Bloody Rabbit I'm happy as I will still shoot haulers filled with loot, I will still setup groups of throw away chars in destroyers to attack haulers and people I dislike. AND the best part is that with these new rules it will take out all the carebears out of the pirating game. So I'm still happy, and will continue to be happy.
This. High sec will still be dangerous. Just suicide ganking will be for professionals, not amateurs.
1/10 for effort. really
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Cors
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:24:00 -
[118]
When you work in Retail, almost every single training seminar starts out the same way, with a question.
Question: "What's the First Rule of Retail sales?"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Answer: "The Customer always lies."
Question: What's the 2nd Rule of Retail Sales? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Answer: "The Customer is always wrong."
In 99.9 % of cases the first series of queries we use with costomers proves this right. They Lie to you right from the start.
EG: Q: How big is the room you want to use this stereo in. Customers Answer: It's a 15'x15' Room. Reality: It's a 5'x7' We sell them an over sized stero, that blows their ears out.
Q: What do you do with your computer? Customer Answer: Not much. Little email, some web browseing. You know, general stuff. Reality: They're the leader of a 0.0 alliance quad boxing while useing TS/Vent/Winamp/IE/firefox/exelspreadsheets to mine on an alt/while watching a 1080P movie they downloaded/with 50 torrents running in the background...
We sell them a lowely Celeron Processor equiped basic PC that implodes when they try to start all the apps they use.
Moral of the story.
99% of the whines the devs see, are complete crap, have no REAL impact on the game. I doubt CCP listens much to to the whiners. Other then to send around compay emails with the funniest ones.
I find this funny.
Everyone is looking at this from the point of view of the Carebears getting a break and finding empire safer.
Did anyone think of looking at it from the OTHER side?
The world just got MORE harsh for a significant portion of the player base. HARDER. All those Pirates/suicide gankers now have a harder time doing the "Evil" things they do. Is this not the definition of Hardcore? Doing something that is now a LOT harder, and a LOT more dangerous?
Ohnoes, suicide gankers are now going to have to actually LOOK and CALCULATE if it's worth it to gank that mission runner. Maybe they'll just have to go to low sec and start pirateing THERE like the rest of us.
Or...GASP move to 0.0 and PVP with the rest of us. OHNOES They'll have to interact with PEOPLE instead of solo ganking in empire..
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mishkof
Caldari Finis Lumen Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:24:00 -
[119]
Wow look at this thread.
Free to pick and choose targets with the ability to destroy it based on scanner results and a quick risk assesment, and it only costs less then 10 mil because of insurance?
I am having trouble deciding who is the whiney ass carebear in this situation the people that "suicide gank, or the "Afk haulers".
Pick better targets, and oh noes you have to rat to get your sec rating up a little more...rat...to get your sec rating up...to do more "suiciding"...
I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response. []hate me []troll me []smack me |
Anndarra Winge
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:26:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Anndarra Winge Hmmmm... the taste of Pirate tears. So-so SWEET.[:twisted:
Quote:
I'm sorry, Pirates at least use some brains and skill and give you half a chance to shoot back (and only half if they are any good) and maybe ransom your way out. Pirates deserve your respect (not a lot, but some). Suicide gankers are just carebear-wannabee pirates - Not brave enough to go live in lowsec or 0.0 and not smart enough to earn a seat on the empire gravy train.
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