Originally by: Dura'Lorth

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You cant spell risk with out isk.

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Originally by: Dura'Lorth

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Move lv 3 missions to 0.5-0.3 sec space, and lv 4 missions to 0.3-0.0 sec space. No one should be able to make that much isk off these mission in high sec systems, it causes lag. And makes sense RPwise since how hard it would be for pirate faction battle ships to use jump gates into 0.9-0.7 mission hubs.

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Originally by: SurrenderMonkey

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At present, I can make more money in high sec missions than I can in 0.0 sec, with a risk level that approaches 0% of what I'd have in null sec.

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Since you are changing PVP, Lets change missions.

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Originally by: Dirk Magnum

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Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 07/08/2008 17:44:07
Nullsec and Low Sec corps who dominate mission hubs or good ratting systems would ensure that unless you were a member of their organization you'd never be able to run a Level 3 or 4 without getting scanned down and destroyed.

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This is severely tipping the balance in favor of full-time PvPers. You have to keep a semblance of real balance. Nerf payouts from High Sec missions, but don't take them away.

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Also the bit about pirate faction battleships as an RP factor in High Sec is nonsense.

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Originally by: Dirk Magnum

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Of course you realize that this change would strip the earning power of non-industrialists in High Sec down to practically nil. Nullsec and Low Sec corps who dominate mission hubs or good ratting systems would ensure that unless you were a member of their organization you'd never be able to run a Level 3 or 4 without getting scanned down and destroyed.

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Originally by: Joey Meow

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Now, as far as your proposal to remove L4 agents from High Security - this will never happen, CCP is here to make money, and forcing those who do not wish to PVP into certain PVP is not a way to keep up subscription numbers. Also, there are L5 agents in low security, they do need to be fixed, or rather the missions need to be fixed somewhat.

Again, no amount of moaning will make CCP disregard 88% of EVE's population, by last count, who stay in Empire.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Joey Meow

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Now, as far as your proposal to remove L4 agents from High Security - this will never happen, CCP is here to make money, and forcing those who do not wish to PVP into certain PVP is not a way to keep up subscription numbers. Also, there are L5 agents in low security, they do need to be fixed, or rather the missions need to be fixed somewhat.

Again, no amount of moaning will make CCP disregard 88% of EVE's population, by last count, who stay in Empire.

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Those same people also want perfect safety, but CCP won't give it to them...

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Originally by: Dura'Lorth

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Move lv 3 missions to 0.5-0.3 sec space, and lv 4 missions to 0.3-0.0 sec space. No one should be able to make that much isk off these mission in high sec systems, it causes lag. And makes sense RPwise since how hard it would be for pirate faction battle ships to use jump gates into 0.9-0.7 mission hubs.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Joey Meow

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Now, as far as your proposal to remove L4 agents from High Security - this will never happen, CCP is here to make money, and forcing those who do not wish to PVP into certain PVP is not a way to keep up subscription numbers. Also, there are L5 agents in low security, they do need to be fixed, or rather the missions need to be fixed somewhat.

Again, no amount of moaning will make CCP disregard 88% of EVE's population, by last count, who stay in Empire.

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Those same people also want perfect safety, but CCP won't give it to them...

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Originally by: Dirk Magnum

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Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 07/08/2008 17:56:24
Ah yes you're right about the pirate ships meaning NPC pirates. However, they don't use the CONCORD jump gates, they use the pirate gates. You see these out in nullsec in some places (tarnished metallic gates with orange and red flame-like energy streams), and you can jump through them yourself. You see them in some missions too, although of course they are just for decoration there.

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Originally by: Dura'Lorth

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Move lv 3 missions to 0.5-0.3 sec space, and lv 4 missions to 0.3-0.0 sec space. No one should be able to make that much isk off these mission in high sec systems, it causes lag.

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Originally by: SurrenderMonkey

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At present, I can make more money in high sec missions than I can in 0.0 sec, with a risk level that approaches 0% of what I'd have in null sec.

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Fighter in the Trollwars

Originally by: Dura'Lorth

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Move lv 3 missions to 0.5-0.3 sec space, and lv 4 missions to 0.3-0.0 sec space. No one should be able to make that much isk off these mission in high sec systems, it causes lag. And makes sense RPwise since how hard it would be for pirate faction battle ships to use jump gates into 0.9-0.7 mission hubs.

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Originally by: Unfunny Alt

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Originally by: SurrenderMonkey

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At present, I can make more money in high sec missions than I can in 0.0 sec, with a risk level that approaches 0% of what I'd have in null sec.

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a wise man (okay it was a bob member) once said, the true wealth of 0.0 isn t in the belts or ice fields. it s in the moons. just because you as a single member can t make as much money doing your solo thing doesn t mean your corp can t make more money with there nice dyspo moon.

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Originally by: Unfunny Alt

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a wise man (okay it was a bob member) once said, the true wealth of 0.0 isn t in the belts or ice fields. it s in the moons. just because you as a single member can t make as much money doing your solo thing doesn t mean your corp can t make more money with there nice dyspo moon.

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Originally by: Deej Montana

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I don't get why you "nerf missions" guys care so much about how much people can potentially make in high sec. So there are people who have more stuff than you? Too bad, deal with it. You don't hear the high sec crowd complaining about not having moons to mine or million isk rats to kill or rare ore to mine do you? No. We go about our business and play the game the way we like, as is our right as a paying CCP customer. We understand that there are (in theory) lots of isk to be made in low and null sec, but for our own reasons, we choose to remain in Empire.

Why the hell do you care?

Don't tell me it's because you want to maintain the "integrity of the developers vision" or any of that crap. At least be honest; you either want a bunch of what you see as soft targets to gank risk free, or, you're petulant children who can't stand that someone else has gotten more than you and had fun while doing it.

How about we make a deal? You play Eve the way you like and so will I.

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Originally by: Somealt Ofmine

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In it's present form it's practically a no-lose. As long as you can figure out how to use a cargo scanner and do some arithmatic, YOU WIN!!. Where's the "risk/reward" in that?

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Originally by: SurrenderMonkey

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Originally by: Somealt Ofmine

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In it's present form it's practically a no-lose. As long as you can figure out how to use a cargo scanner and do some arithmatic, YOU WIN!!. Where's the "risk/reward" in that?

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Only true if someone first puts themselves in a situation where the math comes out favorably for would-be gankers. That's something that's very easy to avoid. It's sad that they're diminishing the player's obligation to defend their wealth.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Edited by: Crumplecorn on 07/08/2008 18:12:58

Originally by: Deej Montana

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I don't get why you "nerf missions" guys care so much about how much people can potentially make in high sec. So there are people who have more stuff than you? Too bad, deal with it. You don't hear the high sec crowd complaining about not having moons to mine or million isk rats to kill or rare ore to mine do you? No. We go about our business and play the game the way we like, as is our right as a paying CCP customer. We understand that there are (in theory) lots of isk to be made in low and null sec, but for our own reasons, we choose to remain in Empire.

Why the hell do you care?

Don't tell me it's because you want to maintain the "integrity of the developers vision" or any of that crap. At least be honest; you either want a bunch of what you see as soft targets to gank risk free, or, you're petulant children who can't stand that someone else has gotten more than you and had fun while doing it.

How about we make a deal? You play Eve the way you like and so will I.

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Perhaps we recognise that this is MMORPG and as such everyone everywhere needs to be playing by the same basic rules - like Risk/Reward.

I know that since mission running is basically a single player game that it is easy to forget this, but you are part of the game, and do have an effect, and thus need to be regulated like everyone else.

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Originally by: Dura'Lorth

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Move lv 3 missions to 0.5-0.3 sec space, and lv 4 missions to 0.3-0.0 sec space. No one should be able to make that much isk off these mission in high sec systems, it causes lag. And makes sense RPwise since how hard it would be for pirate faction battle ships to use jump gates into 0.9-0.7 mission hubs.

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Originally by: Rawr Cristina

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(dreadnoughts are also possibly the most boring ship you could fly. It's like mining, without the part where you make money)

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Originally by: Verx Interis

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Edited by: Verx Interis on 08/08/2008 00:44:51
I concur.

Even industrials won't be able to get money in hisec as much. Where do they get all their high end minerals from? Reprocess level 4 mission loot. Even trading will be less because there isn't as much of a hisec capital. The lack of minerals in hisec will help make lowsec and 0.0 worth mining in because they're the only place to get high end ores aside from drone compounds.

I'm planning on making my alt (who mainly does trades) do industry as extra money and I support this. A lot. Because I prefer eve to be fun, not just what helps me.

As for it being impossible to do missions without being a member of x alliance, it's worth mentioning that about half the people lagging up hisec are tied to lowsec/0.0 inhabiting characters. And it's really not so hard to get in a t1 frigate and go on an op with the rest of the alliance. Seriously.

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Originally by: Amateratsu

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Never going to happen, keep dreaming....

Nerfing missions to low-sec so you piewats can have your wicked way would cause a s**t storm on a scale never before seen in eve and would prove seriously damaging to ccp's subscriptions revenue.

You will just have to go find targets to pew pew elsewhere.

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Originally by: SurrenderMonkey

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Originally by: Somealt Ofmine

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In it's present form it's practically a no-lose. As long as you can figure out how to use a cargo scanner and do some arithmatic, YOU WIN!!. Where's the "risk/reward" in that?

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Only true if someone first puts themselves in a situation where the math comes out favorably for would-be gankers. That's something that's very easy to avoid. It's sad that they're diminishing the player's obligation to defend their wealth.

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Originally by: Dura'Lorth

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Move lv 3 missions to 0.5-0.3 sec space, and lv 4 missions to 0.3-0.0 sec space. No one should be able to make that much isk off these mission in high sec systems, it causes lag. And makes sense RPwise since how hard it would be for pirate faction battle ships to use jump gates into 0.9-0.7 mission hubs.

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Originally by: Somealt Ofmine

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In it's present form it's practically a no-lose. As long as you can figure out how to use a cargo scanner and do some arithmatic, YOU WIN!!. Where's the "risk/reward" in that?

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Originally by: Dura'Lorth

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Move lv 3 missions to 0.5-0.3 sec space, and lv 4 missions to 0.3-0.0 sec space. No one should be able to make that much isk off these mission in high sec systems, it causes lag. And makes sense RPwise since how hard it would be for pirate faction battle ships to use jump gates into 0.9-0.7 mission hubs.

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Originally by: Somealt Ofmine

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First of all, they aren't changing "PvP". They're addressing suicide ganking, which, IMO, barely qualifies as PvP at all.

In it's present form it's practically a no-lose. As long as you can figure out how to use a cargo scanner and do some arithmatic, YOU WIN!!. Where's the "risk/reward" in that?

Sad to say, but the people whining here don't want "PvP", they want helpless victims, which isn't the same thing.

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I'd be all for moving level 4s to low-sec with the following changes to them:

1) Re-configure them so that optimal mission running setups are very similar to optimal PvP setups (i.e. you need to be able to deal/take burst damage, web, scram, etc).

2) Make them not soloable, and requiring a good mixed fleet of damage dealers, tacklers, etc. This is the norm in other MMOs, where you cant run most worthwhile dungeons solo, or with a group consisting only of damage dealers or tanks.

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Originally by: Andrue

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Originally by: Somealt Ofmine

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First of all, they aren't changing "PvP". They're addressing suicide ganking, which, IMO, barely qualifies as PvP at all.

In it's present form it's practically a no-lose. As long as you can figure out how to use a cargo scanner and do some arithmatic, YOU WIN!!. Where's the "risk/reward" in that?

Sad to say, but the people whining here don't want "PvP", they want helpless victims, which isn't the same thing.

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/this.

These people are basically schoolyard bullies. There's little or no reasoning with them. You just have to avoid them and wait. Eventually most of them will grow out of it and might even learn to respect other people.

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I'd be all for moving level 4s to low-sec with the following changes to them:

1) Re-configure them so that optimal mission running setups are very similar to optimal PvP setups (i.e. you need to be able to deal/take burst damage, web, scram, etc).

2) Make them not soloable, and requiring a good mixed fleet of damage dealers, tacklers, etc. This is the norm in other MMOs, where you cant run most worthwhile dungeons solo, or with a group consisting only of damage dealers or tanks.

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This is what L5s should have been.

I also think L5s should have used a dynamic missioning system and offered chained mission sequences. Leave L4s as predictable and boring and offer low-sec L5s as exciting, rewarding and with the runners ready for PvP.

Unfortunately simply ruining L4s will not help. A lot of people living in high-sec simply don't view low-sec as an alternative. For those people the choice is "High-sec" or "leave".

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Originally by: Pithecanthropus

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How much isk are these missioners making? More than carebears ratting in 0.0? I doubt it.

These missioners put in time... in return they make isk. Seems like you pvpers need to realize their time is just as valuable as your time. Perhaps you should use YOUR time more wisely.

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Originally by: CCP Explorer

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You can still steal their stuff.

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