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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
The Wounded
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.08.17 21:47:00 -
[391]
lock the topic, problem solved
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.17 21:52:00 -
[392]
Originally by: Space Wanderer Remove local.
Problem solved.
There is no such thing as "Remove Local" Local is intel that is just not going to be thrown away without some sort of replacement..
Besides that does not solve the problem of AFKness..
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.17 21:54:00 -
[393]
Originally by: The Wounded lock the topic, problem solved
Don't quote the hisec gankers character by character..
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Pan Dora
Caldari Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.08.17 22:34:00 -
[394]
Originally by: Zachstar That is unfortunate as I am attempting to get CCP to go for a light solution now.. Rather than "Come to it" later with a much more heavy handed approach..
We did not really ask for much standing change for the Hisec gankers.. We wanted removal of insurance for their unlawful ganks.. Yet they got both.. Therefore it can also happen here..
Instead of an AFK timer to get at the abusers.. They may do somthing that will harm those who use it legit purposes.. Don't think a cooldown timer or fuel for even covops is out of the question.. They have done MUCH MUCH MUCH larger nerfs before..
Can you please point us to your source of information about this concerns CCP suposely have?
My posts DOES reflect the view of my corp and ally... ..or a mistake they did when let me post. |
Po3tank
Amarr Basgerin Pirate
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Posted - 2008.08.17 23:03:00 -
[395]
Quote: My points are based on principle and for those who have to endure such nonsence..
I see no nonsence in somone unsing a pvp fit and tactics agenst somone who is not using tactics and is using a pve,rating,mission setup.
im glad you are able to defend yourself agenst the mean old nasty afk cloaker, so. now.tell me why the people that are enduring the so called "nonsence" cant defend themselves like you?
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
White Ronin
Gallente Screenout
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Posted - 2008.08.17 23:20:00 -
[396]
Milk goes best with peanut butter sandwiches, regardless of the presence of afk jelly. --------------------------------------------- "There have always been ghosts in the machine . . . random segments of code that have grouped together to form unexpected protocols. " |
kindrel
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.17 23:22:00 -
[397]
you must petition the afk jelly for killing the penutbutter
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oilio
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.18 00:04:00 -
[398]
I notice how zachstar has recently attempted to coflate the high sec ganking issue with AFK cloaking.
By his logic, they are effectively the same thing.
I was going to try to explain how AFK cloaking and fully-insured suicide ganking are very different, but then I realised that Zachstar must actually know this.
I have come to the conclusion that if Zachstar spent more time thinking about his arguments, and less time fantasising about sex with his dog, he might be better able to support his position against cloaking. |
Herring
Caldari Alcatraz Inc. Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.08.18 02:11:00 -
[399]
Originally by: Dr Slaughter Proof or STFU that this is an issue
Come on.. where are the stats people?
Xeronn, I do understand you've got some good points btw. My suggested solutions is this:
Ships capable of fitting a cov-ops cloak (i.e. can warp cloaked) are not effected by any timers. Everything else gets a max. run timer based on quality of cloak and cloaking skill. There's a cool down timer too before you can re-activate, again based on the quality of your cloak and skills. Once cloaked you disappear from local, and local disappears for you and your ships scanner reduces to your current grid (if you can use probes that's un-effected). Titans are also excluded from timers until something more appropriate is worked out.
If you want to introduce fuel fine, but a max skilled cov-ops or force recon pilot had better be able to stay continually cloaked for several hours.
A simple timer that doesn't take into account:
Skills Ship time Module quality
is simple too simple.
Personally it's unlikely I will shift in my opinion and suggested solution until people start posting some raw stats about where/what/how often and to what they're losing all their ships.
The proof: certain parties are using afk cloakers to keep complexes open until they can come back to complete them (aka while they sleep). Because of this abuse your exclusion of covert ops ships isn't quite acceptable. There should be either a timer or a deaspace cloak exclusion.
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Dr Slaughter
Minmatar Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.18 09:19:00 -
[400]
Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 18/08/2008 09:19:09
Originally by: Herring
Originally by: Dr Slaughter stuff
The proof: certain parties are using afk cloakers to keep complexes open until they can come back to complete them (aka while they sleep). Because of this abuse your exclusion of covert ops ships isn't quite acceptable. There should be either a timer or a deaspace cloak exclusion.
Wouldn't the solution there be to have complexes ignore the presence of cloaked ships in their de-spawn logic? ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest. |
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Xipheas
Evolving Strategies
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Posted - 2008.08.18 09:23:00 -
[401]
Originally by: Zachstar I can see how AFK in a pos can be annoying.. And yes it is a bit silly as well.. But atleast it has a really good solution.. Blow up the pos
Which would require teamwork with your alliance mates ... owait, isn't that the same concept that many people are suggesting to combat the afk cloaker?
I agree that cloakers keeping complexes open is broken, but my view is that it should be classed as an exploit, and should be dealt with as such by the GM's. If pos bowling can be confirmed as an exploit then dealt with by petition and investigation, I don't see how the complex issue needs to be treated any differently.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2008.08.18 09:51:00 -
[402]
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 18/08/2008 09:52:31
Originally by: Zachstar There is no such thing as "Remove Local" Local is intel that is just not going to be thrown away without some sort of replacement..
That is the carebear approach. Local is not only intelligence, it is free intelligence. Since when do people have a RIGHT to intelligence? The replacement already exist and is called recon probes, scan probes and directional scanner. Maybe what hurts you is that it is not an effort-free intelligence? Mind you, I am not saying that scanning does not need some kind of improvement, especially in finding, or at least detecting, cloaking ships, if local goes away. But much less than you say and you can gather a lots of intelligence with the current system.
Quote: Besides that does not solve the problem of AFKness..
What problem? The only problem raised by afk cloakers is that they are using a free counterintelligence technique to counter a free intelligence technique. Personally I would feel much more comfortable if both things were to go away.
The real problem of afk-cloaking is that people have been so spoiled with their free lunch that cry when somebody breaks their toy...
EDIT: I read a good point after writing this post, which is people using afk cloaking to keep open complexes. As I said I would be comfortable if both local and afk cloaking were to go away.
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.18 11:44:00 -
[403]
If you have something against local.. Put it in a new topic along with the thousands that have come and gone since day one on the local issue.. I will be happy to debate you there about solutions..
Is this logic of yours 2 wrongs make a right?
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.18 11:47:00 -
[404]
Originally by: Xipheas
Originally by: Zachstar I can see how AFK in a pos can be annoying.. And yes it is a bit silly as well.. But atleast it has a really good solution.. Blow up the pos
Which would require teamwork with your alliance mates ... owait, isn't that the same concept that many people are suggesting to combat the afk cloaker?
I agree that cloakers keeping complexes open is broken, but my view is that it should be classed as an exploit, and should be dealt with as such by the GM's. If pos bowling can be confirmed as an exploit then dealt with by petition and investigation, I don't see how the complex issue needs to be treated any differently.
Because the issue to AFK cloaking for plexes and AFK cloaking for action against enemies has a simple fix without the need to involve GMs every time it is discovered..
A 25 min AFK timer is simple, effective, and keeps from nerfing the primary mission of the Cloaked Recon craft which is intelligence gathering..
It's the hostility to this that could end up with CCP going with a more heavy handed approach in my view.. Just like the hisec gankers..
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Tempest Kane
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.18 11:51:00 -
[405]
Local is only an intell tool due to the lack of any better option , CCP could easily be a bit more creative in the way we examine our enviroment.
Regards the OP: LOL. Mission Success.
If your been brung to a halt by 1 guy you need to return to empire. __________________________________________ - Tempest Kane, Band Of Brothers.
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.18 12:15:00 -
[406]
Originally by: Tempest Kane Local is only an intell tool due to the lack of any better option , CCP could easily be a bit more creative in the way we examine our enviroment.
Regards the OP: LOL. Mission Success.
If your been brung to a halt by 1 guy you need to return to empire.
I agree if he was not AFK. If a guy who was dedicated managed to passively disrupt operations like that, awesome..
That aint the problem.. Being able to take a shower or go to the movies while doing it that is..
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Beltantis Torrence
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Posted - 2008.08.18 13:29:00 -
[407]
There's a reason why there isn't a trigger to automatically warp you to a SS everytime a red enters your system. Namely because the primary purpose of all locals showing up on local is for intel purposes but not to give you more leeway in terms of having to pay attention.
A cloaked afk guy is no more of a threat than someone who is docked up at an NPC station afk for days at a time. More importantly if you can't rat in null sec without protecting yourself from getting PK'd then you're doing it wrong. Its not meant to be safe and local isn't meant to sound a flashy alarm every time you should go dock your hulk.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2008.08.18 14:07:00 -
[408]
Originally by: Zachstar Is this logic of yours 2 wrongs make a right?
If you really can't understand that some problems are interrelated with each other and that the proper fixes requires to take into account the interconnections between different problems... well I am glad you are not designing this game. And I seriously hope you are not into any branch of engigneering, for the sake of your customers.
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Vladina Krematoria
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Posted - 2008.08.18 14:12:00 -
[409]
Easy enough fix if it is such a problem..which i dont think it is btw,..just playing devil's advocate..just add a timer where as if there is such and such a period of inactivity with someone's character they auto log off..hehehehe.
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.08.18 14:18:00 -
[410]
Again I'll post and hope for an answer from the nerf jockeys, and yes that includes you Zachstar.
- 1. So how many ships does an AFK cloaker kill, whilst AFK?
- 2. If there is an AFK cloaker in a system, does that stop the use of Stargates to move to another system?
- 3. If you did move to another system and the AFK cloaker entered said system, then he/she wouldn't be AFK and that would be like watching local for enemies anyway, wouldn't it?
Surely at that point, normal safety precautions would apply and the Corp/Alliance you were in would act.
I am fully aware of cloakers in systems, as atm Atlas are sitting in and around us. This however provides us with lots of laughs and fun...... so what is the issue again?
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
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Alt altski
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Posted - 2008.08.18 14:26:00 -
[411]
To idiots who cant counter ONE afk cloaker -
Stop whining , rat in pvp setups AND/OR rat in groups.
Its not very hard .... you know using your 10 friends in local who are also ratting to help straight away instead of running and docking when you cry for help.
Anyway most recons cant solo ratting bs nowadays, and if its something other than a recon afk cloaking just always be aligned ....
Theres a 3 second locking delay for recons to catch you and its alot longer for other ships ... if your aligned they cant catch you .. unless you go afk that is.
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Farrqua
Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.18 14:38:00 -
[412]
Originally by: Pan Dora
Originally by: Zachstar That is unfortunate as I am attempting to get CCP to go for a light solution now.. Rather than "Come to it" later with a much more heavy handed approach..We did not really ask for much standing change for the Hisec gankers.. We wanted removal of insurance for their unlawful ganks.. Yet they got both.. Therefore it can also happen here..
Instead of an AFK timer to get at the abusers.. They may do somthing that will harm those who use it legit purposes.. Don't think a cooldown timer or fuel for even covops is out of the question.. They have done MUCH MUCH MUCH larger nerfs before..
Can you please point us to your source of information about this concerns CCP suposely have?
^^This. Link the source of the CCP concerns about the cloak issue.
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.18 15:41:00 -
[413]
Originally by: Alt altski To idiots who cant counter ONE afk cloaker -
Stop whining , rat in pvp setups AND/OR rat in groups.
Its not very hard .... you know using your 10 friends in local who are also ratting to help straight away instead of running and docking when you cry for help.
Anyway most recons cant solo ratting bs nowadays, and if its something other than a recon afk cloaking just always be aligned ....
Theres a 3 second locking delay for recons to catch you and its alot longer for other ships ... if your aligned they cant catch you .. unless you go afk that is.
Hostility will not get you any further then it did the hisec gankers..
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.08.18 16:27:00 -
[414]
Originally by: Zachstar
Originally by: Alt altski stuff...
Hostility will not get you any further then it did the hisec gankers..
Asking straight questions doesn't seem to get me anywhere with you either.
I now believe you to be, no more than a troll. You're intent on avoiding certain questions, seemingly because you don't like the answers.
It quite obvious, why people are not taking you seriously.
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
oilio
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.18 17:58:00 -
[415]
Originally by: Zachstar
Hostility will not get you any further then it did the hisec gankers..
There you go AGAIN! You think that making statements about NULL SEC AFK CLOAKERS and HIGH SEC GANKERS in the same post will cause people to associate the two?
You think that CCP will look at your posts and think "Hell! AFK cloaking is the same as fully insured high-sec ganking?"
You're not a troll, you're a *****.
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.18 18:11:00 -
[416]
Originally by: oilio
Originally by: Zachstar
Hostility will not get you any further then it did the hisec gankers..
There you go AGAIN! You think that making statements about NULL SEC AFK CLOAKERS and HIGH SEC GANKERS in the same post will cause people to associate the two?
You think that CCP will look at your posts and think "Hell! AFK cloaking is the same as fully insured high-sec ganking?"
You're not a troll, you're a *****.
Oh but it is!
When we mentioned the risk free hisec ganking going on we got bombarded with hostility... Just as what is going on now..
I dont care what sec it is.. It is the same hostilely as then and thus the situation is the same the "Call the opposing group carebears, noobs, trolls, whatever enough and CCP will go away" mentality..
It did not work then and it won't work now..
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.18 18:12:00 -
[417]
Edited by: Zachstar on 18/08/2008 18:12:45
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Zachstar
Originally by: Alt altski stuff...
Hostility will not get you any further then it did the hisec gankers..
Asking straight questions doesn't seem to get me anywhere with you either.
I now believe you to be, no more than a troll. You're intent on avoiding certain questions, seemingly because you don't like the answers.
It quite obvious, why people are not taking you seriously.
I choose not to answer your question because either I already had in other posts or I just did not feel like it.. Your hostility is not helping you..
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Farrqua
Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.18 18:16:00 -
[418]
Originally by: Farrqua
Originally by: Pan Dora
Originally by: Zachstar That is unfortunate as I am attempting to get CCP to go for a light solution now.. Rather than "Come to it" later with a much more heavy handed approach..We did not really ask for much standing change for the Hisec gankers.. We wanted removal of insurance for their unlawful ganks.. Yet they got both.. Therefore it can also happen here..
Instead of an AFK timer to get at the abusers.. They may do somthing that will harm those who use it legit purposes.. Don't think a cooldown timer or fuel for even covops is out of the question.. They have done MUCH MUCH MUCH larger nerfs before..
Can you please point us to your source of information about this concerns CCP suposely have?
^^This. Link the source of the CCP concerns about the cloak issue.
I would really like to know.
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.08.18 18:23:00 -
[419]
Originally by: Zachstar I choose not to answer your question because either I already had in other posts or I just did not feel like it.. Your hostility is not helping you..
Obvious troll is obvious.
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.18 18:30:00 -
[420]
Edited by: Zachstar on 18/08/2008 18:30:07
Originally by: Farrqua
Originally by: Farrqua
Originally by: Pan Dora
Originally by: Zachstar That is unfortunate as I am attempting to get CCP to go for a light solution now.. Rather than "Come to it" later with a much more heavy handed approach..We did not really ask for much standing change for the Hisec gankers.. We wanted removal of insurance for their unlawful ganks.. Yet they got both.. Therefore it can also happen here..
Instead of an AFK timer to get at the abusers.. They may do somthing that will harm those who use it legit purposes.. Don't think a cooldown timer or fuel for even covops is out of the question.. They have done MUCH MUCH MUCH larger nerfs before..
Can you please point us to your source of information about this concerns CCP suposely have?
^^This. Link the source of the CCP concerns about the cloak issue.
I would really like to know.
What source? Do you mean where CCP is double nerfing Hisec ganking? http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=577
As for CCP concerns I meant that if CCP has identified it as an issue by now (Which I believe they have) Then that means they may take a heavy handed approach to this.
Therefore I am trying to get CCP to get for the simple solution..
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