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Taram Caldar
Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.12 22:11:00 -
[211]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 12/08/2008 22:16:20 Edited by: Taram Caldar on 12/08/2008 22:12:10
Originally by: Fir Q
Originally by: Taram Caldar ...
While some of what you said is valid and true I think the largest annoyance is that groups like yourselves, refuse to actually 'fight'. What you do isn't pvp, you get a free gank here and there.
Might want to re-check those boards. Yes... I've been in 'gank gangs' but I have also done the 'even steven small gang fight' and the 'large fleet fights' and everything else in between. Before you start stereotyping people check your facts. The vast majority of fights I'm in we barely outnumber the enemy and are actually often outnumbered ourselves. We engage enemies when we know we have an advantage as well, sure, but we often engage when we know very well that it's extremely hazardous to do so.
In fact in the falcon kill I just got the other night it was me and 1 other pilot, in an arazu, against a Dominix, Falcon, Vagabond and 2 Raptors when all was said and done. We knew what the Vaga had as support but we engaged in hopes of a fight and we got one. And got out alive.
Quote:
But not one single time have I seen/heard of you guys actually fighting something remotely close to a real engagement. Anytime the numbers are near equal or the ship types are something that would raise a good fight you guys cloak and hide.
Might want to check your facts. I can't link the fleet fights from the kill board here but suffice to say we do engage, when the enemy will come out to fight. Often they will just sit in stations docked up hiding and not come out till they outnumber us 4 or 5 to 1. And you are very right... we're not going to engage a bunch of heavy assets in a huge fleet when we're in 3 or 4 recons.
Quote:
With no possible counter to that it really makes it unfun to fight you guys. If this is your 'goal' then actually i feel sad for you. I stopped caring about losing ships a while ago and ya know, it makes the game a lot more fun.
FYI: When a merc outfit is contracted it's not to have 'fun' it is to accomplish the mission. I take pride in our ability to please our employers with solid results. I also DO have 'fun' as well.... I've never cared about losing ships in EVE. Hell I was in RISE when we were under attack by everyone and their dog... I was in hydra when Triumvirate used us as a kicking toy and I was in Storm Armada when we were fighting Smashkill as well. As I said... I've been on BOTH sides of the issue.
Quote:
As for the 'How do you know they aren't active just waiting for you to screw up and make a mistake?' comment. Because no one can play eve 23/7, you can be logged in 23/7 but I promise you they aren't active 23/7.
Personally I'm never logged on Taram if I'm not online and I get accused, even by you, of being an 'afk cloaker'. I can 100% guarantee I have never cloaked AFK unless it was to go grab food or take a bio.... Like I said... yes there ARE afk cloakers out there. But people tend to assume someone is AFK just because they're cloaked.
Quote:
For 'Get in a gang... rat in a gang... mine in a gang... you don't have to have the whole gang with you' comment. So lets say people are mining yada yada yada, you guys come in, they go 'reds!' go and switch ships, you'll uncloak and fight? oh... that's right... you won't.
Nope but if they're in a gang, and we engage, their buddies can warp in and rescue them. Been there, done that. It's not so you can switch ships it's so that folks in combat ships can come to your aid fast. And in 0.0 there is never any reason to be ratting in a ship that isn't PVP ready. There isn't a single ship that you can rat in that you can't PVP fit while ratting. If you take time to go switch ships? You're right... odds are most cloakers won't engage. But on MANY occasions my squad has taken OBVIOUS bait even in enemy home systems where we KNEW the target was bait but we attacked anyway in hopes of a fight .
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Synapse Archae
Amarr Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.08.12 22:29:00 -
[212]
I'm going to get an alt in a blaster battleship, fly it into a hostile system, and log off. Every so often I'll log in, gank the crap out of anyone in the belt I warp to, then shuffle safespots and log again.
There will be epic whining on these forums.
Originally by: CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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Fir Q
Minmatar Trident Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.08.12 23:20:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Taram Caldar ...
90% of what you said might be true, i don't know. I can only draw information about what you guys did vs. EC. And needless to say, that 90% that might be true, wasn't true against us. I just went over the killboards, yes i'm bored, and looked at all the kills/loses, there was only one single 'engagement' where each side lost more than one ship.
So remember, when i speak, i'm talking about OUR experience vs. TNT. Not you guys kicking puppies :)
Fir Q |
Drongen
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.08.13 12:47:00 -
[214]
Edited by: Drongen on 13/08/2008 12:49:51 So basicly you want 0.0 that is as safe as empire, why don't you go and do some lvl 4's instead of whining here.
edit: btw what your asking is destroying the risk vs rewards system, not that it won't be destroyed enough with the upcoming nerfs.
----- Nothing to see here, move along. |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.08.13 13:36:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Synapse Archae I'm going to get an alt in a blaster battleship, fly it into a hostile system, and log off. Every so often I'll log in, gank the crap out of anyone in the belt I warp to, then shuffle safespots and log again.
There will be epic whining on these forums.
/thread
exactly my thought :-) but you can be intercepted by carefully placed dictor bubbles while warping around safes. it takes skill and luck, but it is possible. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.13 13:40:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Drongen Edited by: Drongen on 13/08/2008 12:49:51 So basicly you want 0.0 that is as safe as empire, why don't you go and do some lvl 4's instead of whining here.
Many already are.
I predict a big increase in cloakers after the speed nerf. Vote against the nano nerf! |
Carrier Eleven
Gallente EVE Posting Service
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Posted - 2008.08.13 13:54:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Mr Friendly Hmm, according to my agent, Teg is located at The Fluf Factory station in the 7BX-6F system, Chimera constellation of Fountain region.
*** logs on Arazu...***
no kidding, I am thinking of sending an alt in a recon out there aswell. Maybe bottle some whine while afk.
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Taram Caldar
Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.13 17:44:00 -
[218]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 13/08/2008 17:44:51
Originally by: Fir Q
Originally by: Taram Caldar ...
90% of what you said might be true, i don't know. I can only draw information about what you guys did vs. EC. And needless to say, that 90% that might be true, wasn't true against us. I just went over the killboards, yes i'm bored, and looked at all the kills/loses, there was only one single 'engagement' where each side lost more than one ship.
So remember, when i speak, i'm talking about OUR experience vs. TNT. Not you guys kicking puppies :)
Ask your guys about the fleet fight near Amarr... trust me, they lost more than 1 ship... we lost none though, because they were stupid. They had us outnumbered at the time, and our gang was split up in 3 systems.... then they got stupid, allowed us to gather, and split up themselves... and got barbequeued. Actually... you could probably ask any of hundreds of people in Amarr and the surrounding area, your guys were smacking enough to gag a horse in local. Not like our fight was a big secret.
Not my fault your guys in empire wouldn't engage... there were many times where I was *alone* in a system or with 1 or 2 friends with 3 or 4 of your guys in system just HOPING one or two would undock... also not my fault that every time we brought an actual fleet out to your area in 0.0 (3 times) that none of you formed a fleet and fought us. When we didn't have numbers to match your fleet? We stayed cloaked... big surprise... and caught who we could.
Not our job to engage you when you outnumber us 3 or 4 to 1 either. Our job was to interdict you and make your lives miserable. And judging by this thread... well... .
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Synapse Archae
Amarr Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:01:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Originally by: Synapse Archae I'm going to get an alt in a blaster battleship, fly it into a hostile system, and log off. Every so often I'll log in, gank the crap out of anyone in the belt I warp to, then shuffle safespots and log again.
There will be epic whining on these forums.
/thread
exactly my thought :-) but you can be intercepted by carefully placed dictor bubbles while warping around safes. it takes skill and luck, but it is possible.
Next to impossible. The bubble has to be ongrid, so they've scanned you down, and then it has to be inline with where youre coming from...which is another safespot so they cant really align it. Would probably be a product of pure luck.
Originally by: CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:19:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Pithecanthropus on 13/08/2008 18:20:22
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Pithecanthropus But whether thats a true statement or not, doesn't change the fact that those who do afk are abusing a flawed mechanic with no effort for grief purposes.
The very fact that you can't tell if they are there are not makes it irrelevant, in game it makes no difference. This is the same reason there is no griefing in EVE; because anything which could be construed as abusing the mechanics to grief people can also be construed as valid gameplay, and since it depends on the players motivation, which like the presence of a possibly-AFK cloaker cannot be verified, it makes no difference what the motivation is and therefore can be assumed to not be griefing.
No. It's only a valid tactic if my efforts to counter your tactic are also valid. How can I counter someone who is not even there, yet still has the same impact. How can I be reassured that my tactics to try and counter them are valid? I can't... there's nothing in this game that tells me, "hey, this guy is in front of his comp, so we can try to do something about it." we can't say that, we're left with doubts. Just like I wouldn't sit in Call Of Duty 4 chasing someone that can cloak forever and be eating dinner while I chase him. There's no point. Thus, no game. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
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DOARota
Gallente Guns of Liberty
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:31:00 -
[221]
A cloaker in system is only a threat to the stupid/greedy.
Form a gang. Set it up for gank. Include gank battleships, tacklers, and of course a couple overpowered falcons.
Warp your gang through the belts and nuke rats all you want.Load up with sensor boosters and nuke them if they come in.Jam them with the Falcons.You can jam rats as well.
About the guy in your alliance who is the "king of ratters" and wants it all for himself...kill him too, he's worthless.
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FlameGlow
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:38:00 -
[222]
Oh, noes, teh orror! AFK cloakers are now on forums too! There is no escape, EVE is doomed!!1!11! _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Drongen
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:52:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Drongen Edited by: Drongen on 13/08/2008 12:49:51 So basicly you want 0.0 that is as safe as empire, why don't you go and do some lvl 4's instead of whining here.
Many already are.
I predict a big increase in cloakers after the speed nerf.
haha yeah, i guess that would be the great new campain, i can already see it: OMGZZZor the imbalance cloacks, they let ppl stay afk in ships that are no real threat in enemy systems. PLS blanzor and make cloacks be on time, preferebly only lasting 10 sec (unless fitted on industrial or on a ship without wepons)
Thx in advance for making eve safer(boring)
----- Nothing to see here, move along. |
Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus Obsidian Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:53:00 -
[224]
Yes, because somebody who can't do anything is such a threat.
Maybe your ratters should be less stupid.
Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.13 20:56:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Jasmine Dixon Edited by: Jasmine Dixon on 12/08/2008 11:20:36 Simple solution to the problem:
The cloaking switches of every 10 Minutes, you can reactivate it instantly, but of course you have to be sitting at the PC and actually play the game to do so.......
......noone afk should be able to have any influence in the universe without consequences......
So basically you have never spent xx minutes probing and sneaking up on an enemy fleet/ship/whatever.
Your scenario:
"Ok FC....got hit...warping in. Oh dear I'm 400km off them. Oh good..they ain't moving. OK FC I'm finally within 50km after ten minutes of slow boating across grid and--oh holy ****wits my cloak magically decloaked and I'm dead ".
Or
"Lalala...I think I'll park my Pilgrim above this belt/FW plex gate/whatever and see what comes along. Doop de doop de doop. Oh look...here comes a ratter. Darn..he's 40km off. OK...I'll slowly move in range. OK..here I am at 15km and oh **** the horny toad my cloak magically disengaged because somebody whined on the forums and now the target warps away laughing at me ".
Jasmine...tbh its best if you never undock. It's safer that way. Really.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.08.13 21:30:00 -
[226]
Originally by: DOARota
Form a gang. Set it up for gank. Include gank battleships, tacklers, and of course a couple overpowered falcons.
Warp your gang through the belts and nuke rats all you want.Load up with sensor boosters and nuke them if they come in.Jam them with the Falcons.You can jam rats as well.
That's my point... I'm willing to do all that, IF we have assurance the cloaker is playing the game. Basically, if you are, then why would you have a problem with a cloaking nerf that enables you to be there. You're there anyway? Am I right? So, what's the point in being against a cloak nerf? Unless, you all secretly enjoy being afk and making us play your game while you color in your newest Telletubbies coloring book. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Baaldor
Caldari Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.13 21:56:00 -
[227]
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.08.13 23:19:00 -
[228]
Dear CCP, Please make it 100% safe for me to do everything. tia. Because obviously Cloaking and attacking unexpectedly is not the purpose of Recon ships.
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.08.14 00:19:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Haakelen Dear CCP, Please make it 100% safe for me to do everything. tia. Because obviously Cloaking and attacking unexpectedly is not the purpose of Recon ships.
Dear Haakelen,
Please make it 100% safe for a cloaker to be afk while sitting in a 0.0 system for 23 hrs a day, 7 days a week, all month long. Because obviously a cloaking ship is designed to eventually uncloak and do something right?
What's next?... will it be 100% safe for haulers to afk thru low sec? Oh wait. Errrr. Guess its 100% safe for cloakers to be afk in 0.0.
I hope you realize what you are saying is not even the point anyone here is trying to make. But then again, you love to post useless, arrogant comments when you don't have a friggin clue. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
DOARota
Gallente Guns of Liberty
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Posted - 2008.08.14 04:50:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: DOARota
Form a gang. Set it up for gank. Include gank battleships, tacklers, and of course a couple overpowered falcons.
Warp your gang through the belts and nuke rats all you want.Load up with sensor boosters and nuke them if they come in.Jam them with the Falcons.You can jam rats as well.
That's my point... I'm willing to do all that, IF we have assurance the cloaker is playing the game. Basically, if you are, then why would you have a problem with a cloaking nerf that enables you to be there. You're there anyway? Am I right? So, what's the point in being against a cloak nerf? Unless, you all secretly enjoy being afk and making us play your game while you color in your newest Telletubbies coloring book.
No need to be rude. The thing is , it's 0.0, nothing is safe there. I just pointed out that if you form a gank pvp gang and ratted as a group, everyone makes isk, nobody loses a ship, and the cloaker is no threat. He then has to come to the forum and post on how your ratting gang needs to be nerfed. He may be watching, maybe not. But you will have made him a non-factor.All of this will have been done without a patch. I've killed ratters and without a doubt 90% have been all alone in a system because they greedy and/or don't work as a team. Let them die. They deserve it.Ask them afterwards how it worked out for them. What's worse, ratting as a pvp group or being cloaked and unable to do jack squat about it ?
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Xeronn
Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.14 10:20:00 -
[231]
one simple question : do you consider it ok for only one side to have 100% ability to chose WHEN and WHAT to engage? This covers both nanos and cloakers
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Djana Libra
Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.08.14 10:57:00 -
[232]
Edited by: Djana Libra on 14/08/2008 10:57:04
Originally by: Xeronn one simple question : do you consider it ok for only one side to have 100% ability to chose WHEN and WHAT to engage? This covers both nanos and cloakers
Yes Ow and the other side can nano/cloak as well
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techzer0
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.08.14 10:58:00 -
[233]
I looked at the OPs alliance name and stopped reading. Am I wrong? ------------ CCP > Let's play the nerf a race game! Next up minmatar! |
Dr Slaughter
Minmatar Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.14 11:06:00 -
[234]
Dear CCP,
Please can you collect and publish the statistics on how many players are doing the following:
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Please make it 100% safe for a cloaker to be afk while sitting in a 0.0 system for 23 hrs a day, 7 days a week, all month long.
as I'm sick to the back teeth of people like Pithecanthropus posting about stuff like this as if it's a problem.
While you're at it, please modify your log servers to collect stats of ships destroyed by ships that had been cloaked just prior to the attack.
If my guess that this amounts to less than 0.001% of all ship losses in all of eve please can I have some cake or beer?
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.14 12:34:00 -
[235]
Sounds like someone is afraid of losing his unstoppable card... Especially as CCP is plugging the loophole of risk free hisec ganking...
Astounding how much hostility towards a simple timer this forum generates.. If you are too lazy to get off your fat lazy ass to change direction with a simple double click every 30 mins.. Then you need serious physical training in my view..
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Kristan Knife
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Posted - 2008.08.14 12:53:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg This is really a valid tactic? One that ccp endorses?
Cloak, then afk in your enemies ratting system for 22.5 hours a day, 7 days a week.
For the remaining half an hour--the time when you're not tooling around with your alt--you uncloak, scan out a ratter, and gank them.
We have a guy like this named Ghostthor. He's a raging **** for this.
CCP do something about this pure *********
Well you lost the game just by comming here to make the thread. He (Ghostthor) is doing co-vert ops....and doing his job well. After all he made you come here to complain about him.....
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Dr Slaughter
Minmatar Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.14 13:17:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Zachstar Sounds like someone is afraid of losing his unstoppable card... Especially as CCP is plugging the loophole of risk free hisec ganking...
Astounding how much hostility towards a simple timer this forum generates.. If you are too lazy to get off your fat lazy ass to change direction with a simple double click every 30 mins.. Then you need serious physical training in my view..
Hostility to stupidity is more like it.
Any ship that can warp cloaked should not IMHO be effected by any timer/counter. The exception is Titan which also are un-effected by any timer/counter. Other ships get the counter. Length of time you can cloak is based on your cloaking skill and the quality of your cloak. The length of time before you can re-cloak is 'an' (i.e. different calculation) inverse of same. When cloaked, you disappear from local and you lose access to local.
BUT I really wish CCP could actually give us the raw stats from the server about how many people cloak, how long they cloak for, how many cloak and stay in one system (i.e. could be AKF) and for how long, and how often people are subsequently attacked by ships that had been cloaked on grid.
Then I am very sure we would see how this is such a NON ISSUE and modifications like those suggested above aren't really needed at all.
There are bigger problems in this game.
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.14 13:47:00 -
[238]
There needs to not be anything complicated. A simple measure to defeat those who decide to keep their clients cloaked all night with no interaction will do fine...
Again if you are too lazy to change direction every 30 mins then you have serious problems..
There are more pressing issues.. However this one has a simple fix... Its those who fear for their abilities to be invincible all night long that are moaning about people proposing changes...
Take your pick.. Timer to move or allow cloakers to eventually be probed down... I suspect you will find a simple timer to be much preferable... And seeing as CCP will more than likely eventually do something about it (As they are doing with the risk free hisec ganks)...
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Dr Slaughter
Minmatar Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.14 14:02:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Zachstar Again if you are too lazy to change direction every 30 mins then you have serious problems..
Yeah. Lazy. I like that.
So, when my wife has shouted 'dinner' I now have 30 minutes to eat because of some arbitrary timer despite the fact I'm sat in a force recon with a cov-ops cloak...
So, when my wife decides she wants a shower so I've unexpectedly got to look after our baby, she had better not take longer than 30 minutes...
What about when the fleet-op is almost at a close but because of a gate camp I'm going to be delayed. So I safe spot and cloak rather than wait around.. OMG.. now I'm an AFK cloaker... keeellll heeeeeem.
Hadn't realized I was so lazy or was such a problem
Love your simple fix. Everyone gets a counter, or could be probed. Will work wonders.
I've got a even better 'fix'. remove cloaks from the game. There we go. fixed.
It's completely ******ed to turn this total non-issue into threads again and again. I'm sure I will now be branded as some sort of elite old time whiner.
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Hugoi
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Posted - 2008.08.14 15:12:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Zachstar There needs to not be anything complicated. A simple measure to defeat those who decide to keep their clients cloaked all night with no interaction will do fine...
Again if you are too lazy to change direction every 30 mins then you have serious problems..
There are more pressing issues.. However this one has a simple fix... Its those who fear for their abilities to be invincible all night long that are moaning about people proposing changes...
Take your pick.. Timer to move or allow cloakers to eventually be probed down... I suspect you will find a simple timer to be much preferable... And seeing as CCP will more than likely eventually do something about it (As they are doing with the risk free hisec ganks)...
First i think you should stop beeing stupid, next YOU should be the one stop beeing lazy and work your brain cells alittle and think of how you can tank 2-3 NPC bs and omgzor the all powerfull recon ship.
Ohh yeah and read intel channels alittle if your afraid that recon will pin you down.
And then again lets remove cloacks from indus and if ur too lazy to use scout for transporting goods thats your bad.
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