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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.10 15:37:00 -
[31]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 10/08/2008 15:36:50
Originally by: Trojanman190 Stiletto isnt the ultimate combat ship, but i think is amazing for tackles.
Ehh. It's not speedy enough to be "amazing" at tackles. 4 mids is nice, but I'd rather have a 2 (or 3) mid tackler with more speed. __________________________________________
Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
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Norwood Franskly
Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.10 15:53:00 -
[32]
I fit my stiletto with an MSE for extra survivability, love that midslot layout, after patch we shall see if I need to change my setup...
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Stab Wounds
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.10 16:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/08/2008 14:40:48 We always have the Rifter
Edit: please don't say "Jaguar". The Jaguar is admittedly good, but it doesn't really outshine the Ishkur (or Harpy for that matter - did you know the Harpy was actually a damn good ship if you have AWU V? Suprised the hell out of me.), and its got fairly low DPS. Wolf is nice for ganking other AFs... but it handles like a brick, or it has no EHP, you choose.
Our interceptors suck except for the pure tackle role (Stilleto).
jaguar is far better than the ishkur, just kill ishkur drones
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.10 16:32:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Stab Wounds jaguar is far better than the ishkur, just kill ishkur drones
ITT: Med student tells hospital chief how to care for patients. __________________________________________
Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.10 16:42:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Cpt Branko The only other BC which can exceed the Hurricane's gank is a gank-fit Brutix, and we're only talking about 1-2% here
So I figure the most EHP/Gank cane you can get is the 6x 425/2x HAM/3x Gyro shield buffered hurricane. I'm going to rig these tests a bit because the Hurricane doesn't have full tackle but it's a requirement for the other ships.
Ship | Hitpoints | DPS -----------+------------+---- Brutix | 47763 | 782 Harbinger | 52445 | 760 Hurricane | 53873 | 737 Drake | 81827 | 618
Quote: The only way to beat other BCs in the (post-SISI change especially) Hurricane is to load Hail M, prey you land in 1km range of your target, dual web it, and melt away. When you do, however, it does this job very well.
I thought that was the Myrm/Brutix's role. In either case, I'd rather use a plate Harby for this since it's DPS at 1km is higher than a cane (if you include tracking).
-Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi |
Car Wars
Shinra
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Posted - 2008.08.10 16:46:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Car Wars on 10/08/2008 16:47:06 Edited by: Car Wars on 10/08/2008 16:46:41
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian
Looks Modelled after the Star Destroyer from star wars, this ship was destined to look absolutely badass.
[/quote
This... basically proves that the OP is right
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace
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Posted - 2008.08.10 17:47:00 -
[37]
Hurricanes are great for ganking hulks. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post. |
Dai'nin Roi'nin
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2008.08.10 18:08:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Gypsio III Six midslots for ewar and you say that the Drake is predictable?
And x lo slots for the armor tank, right?
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Helsir Qyrdun
The Forsakened Companions Pure.
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Posted - 2008.08.10 18:44:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Dai'nin Roi'nin
Originally by: Gypsio III Six midslots for ewar and you say that the Drake is predictable?
And x lo slots for the armor tank, right?
[Drake, Mk3, Basic] Damage Control I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Sensor Booster I Tracking Disruptor I Tracking Disruptor I Tracking Disruptor I Tracking Disruptor I
Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile [empty high slot]
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
^-BRUCE Fleet staple, worked surprisingly well (y'know, when BRUCE Fleets worked. =\ ) Yes. Upgrade as you see fit.
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elnukeo
Running with Knives
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Posted - 2008.08.10 18:52:00 -
[40]
In my Gank fit hurricane the only other BC's i wonder about attacking is the myrm and brutix. Mainly cause of all their drones.
btw, i get 580dps with my cane and have a falloff of 18km. EHP is 54K
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr The Grim Reapers
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Posted - 2008.08.10 22:29:00 -
[41]
The 'Cane is a fantastic ship. Certainly tied for best BC with the Drake in my book.
The Grim Reapers [GREAP] open for business |
Rajere
No Trademark Obsidian Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.10 22:38:00 -
[42]
Myrmidon sure, but brutix? why? Either he's pure gank fit DCII / RCII / 3x Mag Stabs, in which case he has no tank and runs out of HP faster than you do, or he's some kind of plated or dual armor repping whatever that does lol DPS and he runs of HP faster than you. NOTR How to Fail at Eve
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Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.10 23:17:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
So I figure the most EHP/Gank cane you can get is the 6x 425/2x HAM/3x Gyro shield buffered hurricane. I'm going to rig these tests a bit because the Hurricane doesn't have full tackle but it's a requirement for the other ships.
No need to rig the tests, just use a 1600MM RT + EANM II + DC II, full tackle with dual webs (prerequisite to use Hail anyway). Forces you to use 5x425/1x220/2xHAM setup. Your numbers are wrong, anyway. For more ships.
Ship | Hitpoints | DPS -----------+------------+---- Brutix* | 47763 (32517 w/out trimarks, 37519 w trimarks) | 782 (870 DPS) Harbinger** | 52445 (55017 w trmarks, 43565 w/out trimarks) | 760 (768 DPS) Hurricane | 53873 (58721 w trimarks, 45237 w/out trimarks) | 737 (807 DPS) Drake | 81827 (83213 with CRDFE, 61809 w/out CRDFE) | 618 (641 DPS)
*Brutix does much better with a 2xmagstab setup, so you get to fit RCU/2x magstab/DC II/800mm plate, or, with a mix of neutrons/ions so it doesn't have to fit the RCU anyway ** HPL IIs, conflag, MWD, etc. Forced to fit a 800mm RT plate.
Used blank all L5 char and T2 ammo, generally maximum gank setups which you can reasonably fit.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Quote: The only way to beat other BCs in the (post-SISI change especially) Hurricane is to load Hail M, prey you land in 1km range of your target, dual web it, and melt away. When you do, however, it does this job very well.
I thought that was the Myrm/Brutix's role. In either case, I'd rather use a plate Harby for this since it's DPS at 1km is higher than a cane (if you include tracking).
What changed? I mean, seriously now.
Did you kite a Harbringer before? No, lol, you'd die horribly. Drake? Again, lol, say hello to horrible death. Myrmidon? Yes, maybe, in a dual-rep setup. That part changed. Brutix? Yes, but you didn't exactly need to kite him very much, it's a Tier 1 BC and doesn't have the fittings to compete up close.
The Hurricane was a valid choice before and it's a valid choice now. Does the Harbringer outdo it in general because of its performance at range? Yes, it does.
Does it outdo it up close? No. Not against generic targets, and sure as hell won't outdo it up close if they meet up in practice.
If anything, the Drake will kill them both.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.10 23:22:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/08/2008 23:22:30
Originally by: Stab Wounds
jaguar is far better than the ishkur, just kill ishkur drones
Ahah...
Enjoy the slow killing of T2 lights (with a spare wave) with small (hence, awesomely tracking) blasters pounding you and you struggling to hit them with your tracking-unbonused ACs under a 60% web
If you want to kill a Ishkur, you try killing the Ishkur, not letting him wear your effective HP down (which is your advantage) while dealing with two bloody packs of T2 lights and three decently hitting blasters.
The Ishkur wins hands down when you're trying to kill a cruiser post-SISI changes anyway.
Edit: I forgot you're just a troll, however. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.10 23:24:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 10/08/2008 23:27:59
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian Edited by: Kyusoath Orillian on 10/08/2008 11:45:52
Looks Modelled after the Star Destroyer from star wars, this ship was destined to look absolutely badass.
Speed Along with the Cyclone it shares the top spot for highest BC (base) speed at 165m/sec.
Tank and Gank It can be built with an impressive tank, but this ship really shines with a full gank setup. I'm not going to throw EFT numbers around, but damage bonus+ROF bonus = GANKAGE.
but it can do more than just pump out dps, with an t2 AC setup, and those (comedy) fall off rigs, throw in a tracking comp and without losing a single point of DPS from the normal gank setup you have a ship that can hit incredibly hard and very accurately into 24k.
With utility high slots, you can fit nos/nuet or HAMS/HMS.
I think the Power grid and CPU are just right, allowing flexibility.
in short , i love the Hurricane.
Post some incredible, unrealistic crazy EFT fittings for the Hurricane.
PS:no idea why i wrote this.
Harbinger can gank better and the Drake although it ganks less, it has more buffer HP.
LE: Saw Branko's numbers. I still think Harbinger can gank better overall. Easier to hold on target in Harbinger with it's 6-7km optimal on conflag m than with Hurricane with it's crap 1000m optimal and tracking problems + cap-nerfing hail. Also, pure damage is not everything, i'd rather have neuts in those 2 highs on the Hurricane than HAMS.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.10 23:42:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/08/2008 23:42:25
Originally by: Setana Manoro
LE: Saw Branko's numbers. I still think Harbinger can gank better overall. Easier to hold on target in Harbinger with it's 6-7km optimal on conflag m than with Hurricane with it's crap 1000m optimal and tracking problems + cap-nerfing hail.
That part is admittedly true. For most ranges the Harbringer does the job of ganking better (in fact, any ranges beyond 1-2km). The Hurricane *does* slightly outshine it point blank, and it does have a overall more attractive damage type (Hail) which gives it a advantage against T1 armour tanks when up close (which is why you'd never ever want a Hurricane to get close to you when flying the Harbringer).
Both are essentially valid choices, and, while you could generally claim that the Harbringer is a somewhat better ship for most things, or that the Hurricane doesn't have a big enough advantage point blank (both are, in my view, true), the Hurricane isn't exactly obsoleted by the Harbringer, it's still viable.
Originally by: Setana Manoro
Also, pure damage is not everything, i'd rather have neuts in those 2 highs on the Hurricane than HAMS.
I have to disagree when we're talking about BC hulls. You've got enough gank to punch through the active tank of anything short of a battleship in a PvP fitting (you could punch through a active-tanking Tempest, not so quickly though). More gank is what you always need in a gank ship.
On the other hand, you're not flying a BS. Your neuts give you no special ability (which 25km neuts with the power to insta-dry a HAC give a battleship), aside from assisting in frig defence (HAMs also help vs close-range frigs though). I just think that losing that bit of DPS is too big of a sacrifice to fit neuts which are only useful in a small set of situations.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
nakKEDK
Gallente Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.08.11 00:05:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Ship | Hitpoints | DPS -----------+------------+---- Brutix | 47763 | 782 Harbinger | 52445 | 760 Hurricane | 53873 | 737 Drake | 81827 | 618
and now for the range. brutix sux :/ imma train amarr soon :P
k
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Yakov Draken
Minmatar Tides Of War
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Posted - 2008.08.11 01:37:00 -
[48]
I'm going to take a slighty different angle on this:
If I were to only ever fly one ship type with my main what would it be?
Obviously this depends on the style of warfare you like most and for me that is small to medium sized gangs. Given the strength of remote armor repping and the difficulty of remote shield repping you can rule out all gank/tank shield tankers.
I have a covert alt which makes the options far greater.
- the ship has to look good (sorry Domi)
- the ship has contribute well to gang setups
- the ship has to either be versitile or so good at doing what is does it is irresistable
- the ship has to be able to deal decent damage because real combat is generally about killing things quick
*drum roll* "And the winner is . . ."
1. The Hurricane
Seriously cool looks, fantastic versatility and good looks. Great gank/range combo.
2. The Tempest
The Tempest looks fantastic - it looks Yarrr mighty! It is extremely versitile with the option of shield tanking for max gank, two utility highs for neuts/RR's, a fifth mid slot for ECCM or more tackle to help cover the gangs needs. If the Tempest did more damage, both for its class and compared to BC's, I would rate it n.1 because of the power of two remote reps in a RR gang. The likelyhood of a minor Tempest/large AC buff in the future is affecting this choice.
3. The Megathron *crowd goes wild*
The Mega is a chevy on steriods, it gleams, its bling bling, its phat, and its hot! Versitilty be damned the Megha does Mega damage and mega damage is where it is at! Did I mention it gets a tracking bonus and that BS's track like shit? It is expensive to fit but mmmmmmmmm - Mega!
Honourable mentions:
Vagabond - Zoom, Zzoooomm, Zzzzzooooommmmmmm! Zealot - Pew, Pew, Pew, Zoomm, Zzoom, Pew, Pew, Pew. Rupture - cheap rusty screwdiver from rupturing peoples behinds. Plus it can Zzooomm! Typhoon - serious damage dealing combined with decent versitility. Not quite sexy enough to make the A list but I might change my mind on that. Abaddon & Armageddon - Great heavy hitters but too short on versatily to make the A list.
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.11 05:40:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
No need to rig the tests, just use a 1600MM RT + EANM II + DC II, full tackle with dual webs (prerequisite to use Hail anyway). Forces you to use 5x425/1x220/2xHAM setup. Your numbers are wrong, anyway. For more ships.
Well, my numbers were right for the 100% standard PVP fits that I used... but sure.
Anyway dude, tell me what I'm doing wrong, because I get 807 DPS (as opposed to 870 DPS). Fit follows.
Also, I'm not going to argue that hail is 100% useless because you've obviously had some success with it... but I will say that hail is 99.95% useless and your anecdotal evidence seems to rank up there with me killing Myrmidons and Vexors in a Thrasher.
[Hurricane, Branko's Hurricane] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Hail M Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Hammerhead II x1 Hobgoblin II x4
-Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi |
Kano Sekor
Amarr The Movement
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Posted - 2008.08.11 07:11:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Kano Sekor on 11/08/2008 07:11:06 The only way i see a Hurricane threatening my Harbinger is if it has some kind of dual neut set up and quite frankly the Cane is so unpredictable so i might even meet that kind of setup.
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Jane Retail
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Posted - 2008.08.11 07:11:00 -
[51]
It's the best loot ship in the game.
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.08.11 07:29:00 -
[52]
I prefer the Cyclone. I tried the 'cane in FW for a while but I found that by the time I got into range of my guns the battle was over. For close-in fights it's a sweet ship for a good price but 'best in game?' nah.
Then again the beauty of Eve is that there is no 'best ship in game'. Not unless you qualify what you are going to use it for and how the pilot is going to fly it. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Kano Sekor
Amarr The Movement
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Posted - 2008.08.11 07:32:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Andrue I prefer the Cyclone. I tried the 'cane in FW for a while but I found that by the time I got into range of my guns the battle was over. For close-in fights it's a sweet ship for a good price but 'best in game?' nah.
Then again the beauty of Eve is that there is no 'best ship in game'. Not unless you qualify what you are going to use it for and how the pilot is going to fly it.
Dude you do know you can hit under 2 x Falloff + Optimal?
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.08.11 07:33:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Jane Retail It's the best loot ship in the game.
Nah. One of the marauders is. My Golem has over 3,000m3 of cargo space and can tractor objects from up to 40km away more quickly than other ships can tractor things from up to 20km. I hardly ever have to move to pick up loot.
The other day I looted and salvaged AE4+bonus room in fifteen minutes. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Jane Retail
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Posted - 2008.08.11 07:49:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Andrue
Originally by: Jane Retail It's the best loot ship in the game.
Nah. One of the marauders is. My Golem has over 3,000m3 of cargo space and can tractor objects from up to 40km away more quickly than other ships can tractor things from up to 20km. I hardly ever have to move to pick up loot.
The other day I looted and salvaged AE4+bonus room in fifteen minutes.
Agreed. but as long as someone isn't rich enough to afford a second marauder as pure loot ship ===>>> Hurricane
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Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.11 10:31:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/08/2008 10:32:40
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Well, my numbers were right for the 100% standard PVP fits that I used... but sure.
Anyway dude, tell me what I'm doing wrong, because I get 807 DPS (as opposed to 870 DPS). Fit follows.
I did list 807 DPS (says so in the revised table quite clearly). You originally listed 737 DPS however. I don't get where you get the 870 for the Hurricane now?
Anyway, that's the fit.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Also, I'm not going to argue that hail is 100% useless because you've obviously had some success with it... but I will say that hail is 99.95% useless and your anecdotal evidence seems to rank up there with me killing Myrmidons and Vexors in a Thrasher.
I win I killed a lazor wielding Myrmidon mining in a belt in Egghelende in a Rifter. Well, OK, I lie, we had two rifters and a tristan, but you get the point.
Anyway, I'd say Hail is situational rather then useless. If we had any worthwhile alternative to Hail (like all the other races do) I'd agree it was useless, but right now there is no viable alternative, so you better have dual webs to actually keep a target there. If you can get to 1km anyway.
Originally by: Kano Sekor
Dude you do know you can hit under 2 x Falloff + Optimal?
Dude, did you know you do no DPS worth speaking of past optimal+falloff?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Kai Jyokoroi
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.08.11 10:35:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian
Originally by: 0rch1d ...Drake ...
wat
I lol'd
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Kano Sekor
Amarr The Movement
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:20:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Dude, did you know you do no DPS worth speaking of past optimal+falloff?
Dude optimal + falloff => 50% DPS ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:25:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Cpt Branko The only other BC which can exceed the Hurricane's gank is a gank-fit Brutix, and we're only talking about 1-2% here
So I figure the most EHP/Gank cane you can get is the 6x 425/2x HAM/3x Gyro shield buffered hurricane. I'm going to rig these tests a bit because the Hurricane doesn't have full tackle but it's a requirement for the other ships.
Ship | Hitpoints | DPS -----------+------------+---- Brutix | 47763 | 782 Harbinger | 52445 | 760 Hurricane | 53873 | 737 Drake | 81827 | 618
Quote: The only way to beat other BCs in the (post-SISI change especially) Hurricane is to load Hail M, prey you land in 1km range of your target, dual web it, and melt away. When you do, however, it does this job very well.
I thought that was the Myrm/Brutix's role. In either case, I'd rather use a plate Harby for this since it's DPS at 1km is higher than a cane (if you include tracking).
-Liang
For thr BILLIOTH time. Pulse lasers trackig is WORSE than AC and blasters!!
ITs blasters==AC >Pulse lasers on tracking. I dont knwo where in hell people keep gettign these ideas that pulse lasers are the best trackers and Blasters the worse. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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burek
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.08.11 12:12:00 -
[60]
You're all wrong!
The best battlecruiser is the Tempest. It's dps and active tank is lacking behind a few other battlecruisers, but easily has the most EHP when set up passively... |
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