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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
400
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Posted - 2012.03.22 10:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
Suicide ganking is fair as long as it follows the rules and is not ********.
Now the tricks about how to circumvent CONCORD are out of the bag.
- Everybody with -10 can pilot a ship anywhere inside an hi sec system (except at stations) without issues.
This is like if in RL somebody would only be checked at a town entrance and then let free to slaugther anybody afterwards. And then free to leave said town, just has to use a quick car.
- Everybody can kill anything without losing the gank ship as long as they board the appropriate ship. Was this original CONCORD intended mechanic?
Is this emergent gameplay or just a cheat?
- Everybody can still kill anything with T2 guns and choose - if he feels good (read: he fears the banhammer) - to just let CONCORD kill an empty hull.
Is this emergent gameplay or just hiding a cheat?
Every bot killed has 10 ship replacements. Just look at the killboards to see the same bot being killed up to twice a day yet tomorrow is there. Because RMT endless ISK > losses.
On the contrary, the typical lone casual guy will be just pushed off.
End result: adverse selection.
The bots prosper and have ALL the market free for them, while the real miners lose both ships and market.
A mechanic that favors botting over legit players should never exist, it should ALWAYS be convenient to be legit. Else what will players do?
They will also join the "emergent" game play and join the RMT. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Katrina D'Neese
First Star Industries Rolling Thunder.
1
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Posted - 2012.03.22 11:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
Thing I don't understand is, miners would be the ones that notice most bots so should be able to report them but if this is not happening then are the miners themselves not botting? CCP have been cracking down as it is and agreeing with the fact that miners are greedy and it is impossible to fit a dc2 to a hulk! For the person saying remove loot, there's nothing in most of them anyway other than miner upgrades! You get the occassional faction fitted one but that's mostly null |
My Postman
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
42
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Posted - 2012.03.22 11:15:00 -
[33] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:THIS is a SOLO player. This is not even a concerted, organized effort. http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=18178&view=kills&m=03&y=2012Asleep ? ..........or are the LOT of you bots? Our industry is already looked upon rather dimly, and this is just plain embarrassing. Why do you not just leave the game ? If asleep or ANYTHING, a bunch-o-gankers needs to set up camp out there and FIND SOME MORE of you PLEASE.
I lol-¦ed.
Are you ranting because there are no defenceless hulks to gank anymore? Or are you ranting cause you have to pay +5 isk/unit trit?
Protip: Continue mass ganking miners (and mass banhammering bots from ccp-¦s side) and watch trit go up to +6 iskies. Good thing! |
gfldex
390
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Posted - 2012.03.22 11:23:00 -
[34] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:some slightly better fits
That seams not to work to well.
The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
gfldex
390
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Posted - 2012.03.22 11:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:I personally think that that killboard illustrates a much larger issue:- doing all that damage in just 8 days means the gaining of security status is just too damn easy. THAT'S the broken game mechanic....
You can gank miners out of belts perfectly fine with -10. All you need is an alt that moves the catalysts for you to a SS.
The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
gfldex
390
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Posted - 2012.03.22 11:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:This is like if in RL somebody would only be checked at a town entrance and then let free to slaugther anybody afterwards.
I'm all for getting EVE close to RL. It's quite strange to have the police to appear out of nowhere just 5 seconds after the first shot was fired. That totally unrealistic, isn't it?
The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
Cain Blazed
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.03.22 11:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Confirmed, they are not bots! Its just not possible for the exhumers to get away when they land at 0, and tackle. The situation seems to be 2 corporations or 1 corporation with npc corp alts. One provide the warpins and ships, while the corporation in this case goes for the kills. Not much to do for these industrials atm. If they move, they will be followed. Such is the game mechanics. I assume that this will end in these people quitting the game, as there is no game in just sitting in a station for industrial affiliated people. You can't defend against this type of ganking. The only solution would to either move into lower security or a wormhole. But I doubt that will happen, as many people don't have the rl time for such a commitment.
Btw, im not part of the gankers or the miners in the area, just a observer |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
400
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Posted - 2012.03.22 11:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:This is like if in RL somebody would only be checked at a town entrance and then let free to slaugther anybody afterwards. I'm all for getting EVE close to RL. It's quite strange to have the police to appear out of nowhere just 5 seconds after the first shot was fired. That totally unrealistic, isn't it?
They take more than 5 seconds, however you also take a tiny bit longer to be released off the jail after you murdered somebody. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Cain Blazed
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.03.22 12:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
Shogun Archer wrote:D scan?
Get some corp mates with guns?
Fit your mid slots?
Damage control?
Mine in a higher sec system if you want to nap?
Better yet, nap if you want to nap and turn off the computer?
D-scan and keeping an eye on local would be the only solution. Though from observation, the corp in question sits afk in a staion most of the time. So local isnt much help. When you get them on D-scn its usually to late, by the time you iniated warp they will have you scrambled. I doubt most of these miners would get any armed ships to standby while they mine. To do so, they would have to sit literally beside the guy thats mining, and who in the rigth mind would do that in highsec? Setting up the ships 100% tank wouldnt be much help :P Most of the systems around the area in question is 0.5 and 0.6. they could move back to the 1.0 rookie systems. But I think most would quit, since thats pretty ****.
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Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
260
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Posted - 2012.03.22 12:22:00 -
[40] - Quote
Andski wrote:Riddick Liddell wrote:Andski wrote:also look at the worthless hisec veldspar miner talking down to his betters
know your place son Let me save you the ISK Jita IV 4 Don't try that triple web stunt though, it only works on stupid goons. again look at the worthless forum alt trying to talk down to a superior person
You used to be somewhat amusing but your posting has really gone to **** recently. I'd suggest stopping for a while. |
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Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
240
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Posted - 2012.03.22 12:43:00 -
[41] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Riddick Liddell wrote:Plenty of those were full T2 fit, dual Invuln
Damage taken 5200 Damage taken 5800
tech 2 ship, Tech 2 fit, popped by solo Cat's and some how it's thier fault they didn't super gimp thier fit.
No worries, it will be a long time coming before CCP do anything. I could manage 20k EHP with an active tank, shield rigs and one DCU II and MLU II when I mined in Insmother. But I guess the NPCs in nullsec are a bigger threat then suicide ganking then highsec, judging by these fits I'm looking at. Most of these victims didn't even bother to fill out their midslots. Why should I feel sorry for them? Except, they will just bring another friend in another destroyer. End of story for the hulk.
And the Hulk pilot will just add more tank at the expense of yield to counter that one extra dessie.
I have seen people propose buffing the Hulk or exhumers or barges in general, but I don't see the point since they are just fine to me. The Hulk is the most versatile of all mining ships as it can always sacrifice more yield in favor of more tank and vice versa. It's a trade off no matter what, just like any other ship has to go through. This is why I normally oppose any changes to the Exhumer with exception to the skill tree arrangement which currently makes no sense. At one point, the Hulk even served as a formidable pvp ship for baiting can flippers in high-sec space before CCP decided to nerf energy vamp modules. Click here for video. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
391
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 12:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
DIsposible Hero wrote:
Of course its also "PVP" so anyone complaining about it is a carebear who hates EVE.
Your post was actually intelligent until you typed THIS. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
391
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 12:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
Evei Shard wrote:Riddick Liddell wrote: No worries, it will be a long time coming before CCP do anything.
The did do something! They removed insurance payouts. Do you have any clue how hard it is to make back the nearly 2mil isk you lose when ganking with a T1 fit Catalyst? L2PcanIhazurstufHTFUgoplayWoW! /sarc
2 million ISK is a pansy amount ingame. This matters not at all to solo gankiers. Not even taking candy away here........... OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
391
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 12:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
TravisWB wrote:The miners in Genesis are aware of the problem.
Happens everyday, everywhere.
I doubt it. This is a mass slaughter by one TOON. If THAT many are AFK, something is WAY wrong here. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
391
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 12:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote: Stop being a rabbit and can flip, gank, steal, scam because that's what the real Eve Online game is about, but if you don't, then you will always be a poor victim just because you like it.
This is just so stupidly wrong. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
391
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 12:49:00 -
[46] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Riddick Liddell wrote:Think of me as a forum Suicide ganker. Who's the forum Concord?
CCP Phantom OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
391
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Posted - 2012.03.22 12:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
Andski wrote: know your place son
THIS is getting REAL WRONG.
You guys need to get a room or something............ OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
391
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 12:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
Katrina D'Neese wrote:Thing I don't understand is, miners would be the ones that notice most bots so should be able to report them but if this is not happening then are the miners themselves not botting? CCP have been cracking down as it is and agreeing with the fact that miners are greedy and it is impossible to fit a dc2 to a hulk! For the person saying remove loot, there's nothing in most of them anyway other than miner upgrades! You get the occassional faction fitted one but that's mostly null
I gank the Ice Bots as much as possible, and report them and report the botting Hulks. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
391
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 12:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:This is like if in RL somebody would only be checked at a town entrance and then let free to slaugther anybody afterwards. I'm all for getting EVE close to RL. It's quite strange to have the police to appear out of nowhere just 5 seconds after the first shot was fired. That totally unrealistic, isn't it?
Not with Warp Light Speed involved. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
391
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 12:56:00 -
[50] - Quote
Cain Blazed wrote:Confirmed, they are not bots! Its just not possible for the exhumers to get away when they land at 0, and tackle. The situation seems to be 2 corporations or 1 corporation with npc corp alts. One provide the warpins and ships, while the corporation in this case goes for the kills. Not much to do for these industrials atm. If they move, they will be followed. Such is the game mechanics. I assume that this will end in these people quitting the game, as there is no game in just sitting in a station for industrial affiliated people. You can't defend against this type of ganking. The only solution would to either move into lower security or a wormhole. But I doubt that will happen, as many people don't have the rl time for such a commitment. Btw, im not part of the gankers or the miners in the area, just a observer
AS SOON AS THE GUY ENTERS LOCAL -------- DOCK UP. SHEESH. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
889
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 13:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
Shogun Archer wrote:D scan?
Get some corp mates with guns?
Your align/warp time is so slow I could do at least 2 trips of 100AU before you warp out, if you fit for tank it's worst, if you fit for align/warp I say lol tank, D-scan in high sec when you have a local full of neuts...of course.
AS for your corp mates: What for?- when they could be mining drones and making 150m/hour easily and a lot more in an organised carrier/orca/salvager group? -you're not even making efforts to look silly, tsk tsk tsk...
Quote:Fit your mid slots?
Damage control?
Please share with us the uberness of your Covetor, retriever, mackinaw and hulk fits that can survive that easily a brutix or cane gank, cheaper: tandem of Destroyers (well hopefully there are some silly gankers too)
You should get a nobel price for these obvious points, jesus how did humanity evolved without you?-much better before you show up to be honest.
Quote:Mine in a higher sec system if you want to nap?
Better yet, nap if you want to nap and turn off the computer?
Ho, sorry people didn't understood that in HIGH SEC there are safe zones, and always in high sec, non safe zones
[tount] Now this stuff about turn off the computer is the single reasonable thing you wrote, but you should go further and invite players to completely stop mining by giving them reasonable arguments and explain the why they shouldn't do so. But I guess it's out of reach for you if it takes more than a few words and lines that need ideas to be organised and have a purpose to an end.
[/tount] |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
171
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Posted - 2012.03.22 13:03:00 -
[52] - Quote
[Hulk, New Setup 1] Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Damage Control II
Medium Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
27.9K EHP before fleet bonuses. Stop dying |
MeestaPenni
New Republic Krayt The 99 Percent
192
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Posted - 2012.03.22 13:05:00 -
[53] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote: doing all that damage in just 8 days means the gaining of security status is just too damn easy.
The broken game mechanic is the lack of necessity to gain security status. The killboard in the OP has at least one day with a total of 8 pods killed. The character clearly did not need to rebuild security status to operate with impunity in a .5 system.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
240
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 13:11:00 -
[54] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote: doing all that damage in just 8 days means the gaining of security status is just too damn easy.
The broken game mechanic is the lack of necessity to gain security status. The killboard in the OP has at least one day with a total of 8 pods killed. The character clearly did not need to rebuild security status to operate with impunity in a .5 system.
There is also the Orca alt trick that I mentioned earlier. The game does allow you to traverse through any secure space as long as you're in a pod if you are an outlaw. As soon as you board a ship anywhere, even in a safespot away from somebody's grid, Concord and the faction Navy will come after you. In 0.5 space, the 13 seconds that it takes for Concord to arrive is more than enough for the Catalyst or Thrasher to get into warp and land on top of the target assuming the outlaw has a warp-in alt nearby. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Ricfire
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.03.22 13:18:00 -
[55] - Quote
So how does he suicide gank all those people over more than a week, and only lose 2 ships? |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
889
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 13:20:00 -
[56] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:[Hulk, New Setup 1] Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Damage Control II
Medium Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
27.9K EHP before fleet bonuses. Stop dying
That will survive a single/2 destroyer gank, in 0.5 a 1.2K dps gank brutix can put at least 7 shots on that hulk, it's far more that it can tank in that amount of time if you are not being seriously shield remote, with a Talos just doesn't change a crap if you were fit for cargo or yeld. It's still a -100M ship (with T1 mods it's even cheaper) that annihilates your 200M T2 ship/fit just because it can and because there's nothing you can do about it, not even your uber fit.
You just made the salvage a little bit different little less profit, but I'm still able to erase you from the horizon with a ship costing - half of yours, and there's nothing you can do about it. How does it feel?
Now if you were showing me a fit surviving to a 200M gank setup I'd say, ok, but with this I'm still isk efficient by using a Tier 3 BC with T1 guns and faction ammo And my SS loss for this kill is same stuff: a few BS rats killed here'n there. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
889
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 13:22:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ricfire wrote:So how does he suicide gank all those people over more than a week, and only lose 2 ships?
Because he forgot to say all the truth and actually he didn't ganked them even if he killed them?
Bad game mechanics are bad
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Kessiaan
Greater Order Of Destruction Happy Endings
116
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Posted - 2012.03.22 14:29:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ricfire wrote:So how does he suicide gank all those people over more than a week, and only lose 2 ships?
His victims never aggressed him - no killboard counts losses to only NPCs.
The main thing you need to survive a single destroyer gank is a damage control. My killboard - http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Kessiaan |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
184
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Posted - 2012.03.22 14:58:00 -
[59] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:[Hulk, New Setup 1] Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Damage Control II
Medium Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
27.9K EHP before fleet bonuses. Stop dying
Yeah that's a good fit. My "mining in dangerous territory" Hulk is fit like that. You can cycle the lasers once before you have to dock....I'm exaggerating, I think you can get in 2 cycles with this fit. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
391
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 15:49:00 -
[60] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:[Hulk, New Setup 1] Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Damage Control II
Medium Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
27.9K EHP before fleet bonuses. Stop dying
Those Low Slot Mods are NOT going to help one whit if beset upon by a gang or Smarties.
May as well just leave the Mining Laser Upgrades in the Lows and go for the yield. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
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