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What would you do to change the wardec system?

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Author	Topic
Arna Padrona Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.08.12 20:32:00 - [61] I'd make sure high sec war has the consequences it SHOULD have. I'd suggest the empires react appropriately: Every ship kill is penalised with an empire standing loss. A war dec is about making concord and the law look the other way. That's not changing. However: I'm pretty sure that if a bunch of guys hang around the Emperor's family academy in Amarr - destroying amarrian ships, flown by amarrian pilots, in an amarrian corp, disrupting amarrian safety and trade - the amarr government is gonna end up rather upset! The standing hits should apply only to the deccing corp - not the poor sods on the receiving end. Of course - mutually declared wars would not suffer from these changes. Effects: * If you repeatedly war-dec newbie-corps and gank their rifters in high sec - you will take serious standing losses in the empire you are fighting in. You have to either a) have fewer high-sec wars and and/or b) run a LOT of missions to compensate or find yourself banished from the faction's space in a matter of weeks, or in extreme cases, days. * It doesn't stop high sec warfare, just excessive high sec gankings. * It makes high sec war something that needs to be CONSIDERED first - like a true war. You CAN do it, but it WILL cost you time and money to undo the damage. It's called politics. * High sec war becomes less about "ganking" and "camping" and more about finding and eliminating select priority targets. Is he worth the standing hit? If the standing hit is incremental, getting bigger for every ship destroyed, a legitimate all-out war will still have a relatively low cost. Constant warfare however will soon see you banished to low-sec.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.12 20:36:00 - [62] Originally by: Ruze Bribing CONCORD to 'look the other way' as you make a kill is brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. I'm serious. I love that idea, down to the subcochles of my heart. So you have a BS on BS gang fight, and say corporation A wins, corporation B loses, but corporation A lost one ship and they can barely reimburse the costs out of the crap loot corporation B had. Now, corporation A has to pay 50 extra mil because they suceeded? How ******ed is that? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.08.12 20:56:00 - [63] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 12/08/2008 16:13:27 CONCORD will not allow wartime aggression in High Sec if the deccing corp is more than twice the size of the corp being dec'd. If the war is mutual however this High Sec combat prohibition is lifted. Why would anyone want it lifted? Maybe the guys being dec'd think they have superior tactics and firepower despite their lower numbers, but don't want to fight in Low Sec where there are other threats besides war targets. Sliding price scale of war decs. The bigger you are compared to the size of your opponent the more you pay. There will be a seven day waiting period to leave a corp that has dec'd someone, or who is being dec'd by someone. This is to discourage corp-hopping. Alliance hopping can already be petitioned, so why not put in safeguards against corp-hopping too? Most of your ideas are easily manipulated by players. The people who really really hate war will easily do the corp jumping thing to avoid war. They will also easily sandbag the numbers to make the system work in their favor. I can start a 1 man corp, declare war, then have 50 friends apply one week into it. Same thing with the sliding fee scale. People will put in hours of work to avoid war rather than pay 100 million which they could make in 1 hour running a few missions or mining together. I wish they would lock in people to corps to avoid the exploitive type of corp hopping. If they aren't going to lock people into the corp for 7 days or something then give us more war slots and increase the fees with each dec. Even with that, the agressors pay through the nose to declare war whereas the victims spend 2 mil per corp. We spent 24mil in a few days trying to corner some jumpers, actually, even more since I have to dec them on my alts too. The people who don't want war already have a ton of ways out of it.
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.08.12 20:59:00 - [64] Originally by: Larg Kellein Remove wardec immunity form NPC corporations, or make it so people are automatically booted from them when they've been in game for 3 months. On the account level, not per character. And yeah, you said to appease them too... 1 month free gametime for WoW. This. Hate the newb corps. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
X4N4X	Posted - 2008.08.12 21:01:00 - [65] Just a few words to the carebear corps out there... stop whinning and play the game
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.08.12 21:03:00 - [66] Originally by: Xtreem what Tarminic said with the addition new players in starter corps are tax free ect 3 months in 25% tax on all income 6 months 50% 9 months 75% 12 months 100% force people out of the starter corps this way, too many poeple hide behind noob corps, when they should be just for new players Ooooh. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
Mire Stoude Cash Money Brothers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.08.12 21:05:00 - [67] Edited by: Mire Stoude on 12/08/2008 21:06:16 nm
Hieronimus Rex Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.08.12 21:08:00 - [68] 1) Make wardecs cost a function of target size and attacker size. Bigger targets would mean more expensive wars - minimum of 10mil for tiny corps and max of maybe 500mil for the biggest alliances. Attackers' corps that were much larger than whoever they were attacking would have to pay even more (some type of multiplier) for wardecs. 2) Put everyone from an NPC corp into a player corp after 2-3 months. Ideally, 2 would satisfy pvpers by giving them more targets, but 1 would discourage "license to gank" type wardecs and encourage carebears to defend themselves (by forming larger corps)
Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.08.12 21:52:00 - [69] So far most of the suggestions are all easily manipulated by the players themselves. We're a small corp, we rarely exceed 25 players. Half of them haven't logged in for months. We've dec'd 100+ man corps or alliances. Half of their members are inactive. We've dec'd 5 man corps and they're all on 24/7. Either way, all of those numbers are easily manipulated. The people griping most about wars are the ones willing to go to any means to avoid it. If that means creating 4 corps to hop through, they will do it. If it means creating trial accounts and having those 3 characters apply to their corp and sandbag the numbers. I've seen people create 7 or 8 alt corps using trial accounts. Tossing 3 characters from a trial account is way too easy. Most corps that have been around for a while end up with a certain percentage of inactive people permanently in corp. So the numbers game is highly inaccurate and easy to rig. I see people saying war decs are a way to pay to grief. That's not exactly fair to say. There are just as many, if not more legitimate war decs than griefing ones. Most of the vitims think it's unfair that ISK gain is a reason for war. They also think their players can steal loot or call people names in local and just walk away from it all just because they don't want war. I am not denying that there are random decs for no reason by people, but it doesn't really constitute griefing. I think there are very few corps that play that way tbh. Even our corp, we do random decs too. We always offer pretty cheap surrender fees. Then they react in a most obscene manner so that makes us want to keep them dec'd permanently until they pay up one way or another. No one wants to lose a war. Most of the people that pay us usually ask us not to tell people that they paid up for fear of more people decing them. Some just outright refuse to pay regardless. When I was in REPO we dec'd a corp who felt it prudent to smacktalk the head of the alliance for no good reason. Of course he felt that it was unfair they got dec'd. They even admitted in corp mail that their alliance was created specifically to avoid easy war decs by corps who can't afford 50mil a week. Not only that, they were so stupid, they thought the war fees were more than that and they thought the fees were based on the number of corps in their alliance, so they had arranged to have everyone get a trial account, make 3 characters with max corp skills, then create fake corps and absorb them into the alliance to drive up the war dec fees on REPO. How do I know this? I happened to plant a spy in corp and read it all. In addition to their plans to manipulate the system they all decided to agree on logging out for the duration of the war and play anything but Eve. They were willing to do anything in their power not to fight, but were more than willing to engage in behavior that could result in a war. They refused to pay, they refused any attempt to negotiate with diplomacy. So putting in a system for them to be able to "lose" the war and have it ended isn't going to interest them. They don't care. They don't want to lose. They want it all to go away like it was a bad dream so they can continue on playing their way, interfering whenever they want without the fear or hassle of reprisal. Someone else here mentioned recruiting solid players and building a good foundation when staking your corps flag into Eve. That's a great start. If a corp can't handle a single war from a small corp, then they're probably not cut out for Eve in the long run. I have characters that grind ISK and guess what? I keep some of them in NPC corps because I don't want the hassle of war on them. Some of them are in small corps and even though I don't pvp on those characters, they stay and fight because they are part of a group of friends. All for one and one for all. If you want no non-consensual interaction, go play a single player game. Eve is not for you.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.12 21:53:00 - [70] Originally by: Nexa Necis Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 12/08/2008 16:13:27 CONCORD will not allow wartime aggression in High Sec if the deccing corp is more than twice the size of the corp being dec'd. If the war is mutual however this High Sec combat prohibition is lifted. Why would anyone want it lifted? Maybe the guys being dec'd think they have superior tactics and firepower despite their lower numbers, but don't want to fight in Low Sec where there are other threats besides war targets. Sliding price scale of war decs. The bigger you are compared to the size of your opponent the more you pay. There will be a seven day waiting period to leave a corp that has dec'd someone, or who is being dec'd by someone. This is to discourage corp-hopping. Alliance hopping can already be petitioned, so why not put in safeguards against corp-hopping too? Most of your ideas are easily manipulated by players. The people who really really hate war will easily do the corp jumping thing to avoid war. They will also easily sandbag the numbers to make the system work in their favor. I can start a 1 man corp, declare war, then have 50 friends apply one week into it. Same thing with the sliding fee scale. People will put in hours of work to avoid war rather than pay 100 million which they could make in 1 hour running a few missions or mining together. I wish they would lock in people to corps to avoid the exploitive type of corp hopping. If they aren't going to lock people into the corp for 7 days or something then give us more war slots and increase the fees with each dec. Even with that, the agressors pay through the nose to declare war whereas the victims spend 2 mil per corp. We spent 24mil in a few days trying to corner some jumpers, actually, even more since I have to dec them on my alts too. The people who don't want war already have a ton of ways out of it. Simple fix: accepting a player from a war-decced corp transfers the war as well for 24 hours. (obviously there should be a pop-up window advising the new host corp of this.) CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

Alchem Gallente Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.08.12 21:56:00 - [71] I would just leave simple as that
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.12 22:16:00 - [72] Have corps declare win/loss terms in an isk value and they need to put up the same value in a "bank" until they achieve their goal. -Corp A puts up 1bil in a bank to declare war on corp B. -Corp A needs to achieve 1bil in isk value from corp B from kills and/or direct payments. -If corp B kills any of corp A, they start to deduct the isk from the 1bil value they put up according the the isk loss value of the ship. -If corp B kills the 1bil value, the war is over. -If corp A chooses to end war, they lose 1/2 the remaining isk in the bank. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:29:00 - [73] Originally by: X4N4X Just a few words to the carebear corps out there... stop whinning and play the game Just a few words to the ill educated among us, stop playing the game and go to school. It's whining you maggot! These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.13 00:26:00 - [74] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Edited by: Mordekai Bloodwake on 12/08/2008 16:01:27 Originally by: 5pinDizzy Imagine you're working for CCP and it's been placed on your to-do list by your boss. At least some small amount of change is needed to appease the carebears audience for a while from the looming dec's of the vastly more powerful lul pirates looking for easy kills. How would you do it so it didn't interfere and mess up the point of wardecs while still keeping newer and beginner corps safe from noob bashers? This is in my most humble opinion and by no means a 'must implement' 1. Both parties must agree 2. if both parites agreed, then a higher war payout should go the the corp thats declaring if their numbers far exceeds their opponents I like this one.
Praleon Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.13 14:09:00 - [75] Either but not both of the following: I would make it so that the initiator of the war had to pay a set amount, like 5 million ISK, plus a million ISK per character over the number of players in the other galaxies... per day/week, etc... or A mutual disconnect condition, whereby a small corp can pay X amount based on its size to cancel the war dec... the money going directly to the aggressor as payment to conclude the war. This amount should be over whatever amount was paid by the aggressor to a degree that the aggressor makes money by declaring war on those unwilling to fight, but, can only do so once per week or so to a single corp. Praleon CEO Judgement Klan Corporation
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.13 14:19:00 - [76] Originally by: Pithecanthropus Have corps declare win/loss terms in an isk value and they need to put up the same value in a "bank" until they achieve their goal. -Corp A puts up 1bil in a bank to declare war on corp B. -Corp A needs to achieve 1bil in isk value from corp B from kills and/or direct payments. -If corp B kills any of corp A, they start to deduct the isk from the 1bil value they put up according the the isk loss value of the ship. -If corp B kills the 1bil value, the war is over. -If corp A chooses to end war, they lose 1/2 the remaining isk in the bank. Stay docked or jump corp for an automatic win. Vote against the nano nerf!
Khamal Jolstien Caldari The Monkey Sanctuary	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:25:00 - [77] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Imagine you're working for CCP and it's been placed on your to-do list by your boss. At least some small amount of change is needed to appease the carebears audience for a while from the looming dec's of the vastly more powerful lul pirates looking for easy kills. How would you do it so it didn't interfere and mess up the point of wardecs while still keeping newer and beginner corps safe from noob bashers? Nothing needs to change.
Strak Yogorn Amarr Farmer Killers	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:45:00 - [78] stop corphopping "exploit" - if ppl want the benefits of player corps, they should get the risks as well. they did it with alliances, now do it with corps as well....
Glach Duwat	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:50:00 - [79] Edited by: Glach Duwat on 13/08/2008 17:53:01 My simple solution: If you are fighting a war in high sec, the moment you fire on a War target you get the same Global countdown you get in Low sec, where you appear red and flashy to pilots in space, and become fair game to any Pilot who wishes to engage. If a non-involved corp attacks you, they, and their corp, become flagged to you and your corp for the duration of the global countdown. There would be no 'sec hit' and concord/gate guns would not interfere.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:58:00 - [80] Make it so the Corp/alliance making a wardec HAD to show up for battle, in a manner which makes actual engagement of battle fleets a near certainty if the war decee also wants to fight. In short, make a war dec include a promise to provide at least one fleet battle for the war decee. Play nice while you butcher each other.

Beltantis Torrence	Posted - 2008.08.13 18:17:00 - [81] Edited by: Beltantis Torrence on 13/08/2008 18:18:58 Make it so that if you attacked a militia target the whole militia could aggro you in high sec. War decs solved. Edited to add : And remove ability to change corps while war-dec'd, but then war decs would have to have durations or no one could change their corp so long as someone had a WD on them. Something like 5 weeks max with a week break before you could redec.
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2008.08.13 18:20:00 - [82] Originally by: Duby Hmmmm I dont think Japan asked permission to bomb pearl Harbor "FIRST" you do know pearl harbour was the jap response to the american oil embargo right?
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.13 20:32:00 - [83] Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 13/08/2008 20:36:38 Originally by: Ehranavaar Originally by: Duby Hmmmm I dont think Japan asked permission to bomb pearl Harbor "FIRST" you do know pearl harbour was the jap response to the american oil embargo right? Dr Suess had a few things to say about that. I especially like 20 June 1941 (2 days for the invasion of Russia) 1 July 1941 18 Nov 1941 1 Dec 1941 5 Dec 1941 5 Jan 1942 6 Jan 1942 24 Mar 1942 21 Apr 1942 15 June 1942 7 July 1942 11 Aug 1942 and a few others...... Dr Suess in WWII Play nice while you butcher each other.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.13 20:41:00 - [84] killing the wardec system would only make the merc (the true mercs btw, not the jackasses that decide to grief someone and call it a "merc job") job harder or even impossible. heck. hi-sec is supposed to be safER, not saFE. people that don't understand this are not suited to play EVE, end of. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.08.13 20:47:00 - [85] Originally by: Liz Laser Working as intended. This. Although, perhaps, add a surrender option for ISK (or items?) that prevents scamming, etc. and allows you to set terms. It'd be nice, but it isn't needed.
Doddy Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.08.13 20:47:00 - [86] Originally by: Duby Originally by: Kalintos Tyl Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Edited by: Mordekai Bloodwake on 12/08/2008 16:01:27 Originally by: 5pinDizzy Imagine you're working for CCP and it's been placed on your to-do list by your boss. At least some small amount of change is needed to appease the carebears audience for a while from the looming dec's of the vastly more powerful lul pirates looking for easy kills. How would you do it so it didn't interfere and mess up the point of wardecs while still keeping newer and beginner corps safe from noob bashers? This is in my most humble opinion and by no means a 'must implement' 1. Both parties must agree 2. if both parites agreed, then a higher war payout should go the the corp thats declaring if their numbers far exceeds their opponents o realy both sides agro, so did usa ask hieroshima citizens if they can drop nuke on them ?:D Hmmmm I dont think Japan asked permission to bomb pearl Harbor "FIRST" everyone has a reason to go to war
Aarin Wrath Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.13 20:55:00 - [87] Originally by: Tarminic 1. Increase the cost of creating a corporation significantly (at least 100 million ISK) 2. Allow the defenders a one-time bribe of CONCORD (~50 million) to postpone the beginning of the war for 1 week 3. Create a tangible means for displaying how a corporation can win a war - whenever the corporation starts the war they set out objectives, including: -ISK destroyed -Ships destroyed (by type) -Membership reduced (% or #) -Closing of corporation -Removal of offices 4. When a corporation completes all their objectives or retracts the war without completing them, it can be displayed from the corporate show-info screen as medals. Gives victors bragging rights but also lets a defending corporation shame their opponents by denying them objectives. 5. Allow defending corporations to involve a 3rd party in the war-declaration system through mercenary contracts. They will function the same as an offensive war dec (complete with War Medals) with the exception that they pay no fee as long as the attacking corporation maintains the war. 6. Inhibit corp hopping to prevent war declarations - whenever leaving a corporation at war, players with roles must wait at least 72 hours before leaving the corporation. Seconded. Also ... isent that what they are planning to do with the upcomming wardec changes anyways? i.e. provide goals?
Aarin Wrath Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.13 20:59:00 - [88] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Add an npc corp tax of 25%, and I'm sold on this too. ^^ CCP is not going to do that. Nor are they going to: Make NPC corps wardec'able Make NPC corps have 99% tax Kick people out of NPC corps after a certain amount of time etc .. All of that is hurtfull to new players and will decrease new player uptake / players staying longer. It wont happen. Its just too detrimental to the new player experience. (thats a bad thing ... ok?) Also ... this is ALL outside of the thread scope ... so please stay on topic.
Mr Costington	Posted - 2008.08.13 21:14:00 - [89] How about limiting wardecs to contested territory (plus a fee for additional systems perhaps, maybe 5-10 mil to extend the wardec to a favorite mission hub or trade route). Contested territory could consist of any system containing an office or POS belonging to either corp. This would create defined objectives for a war (ex: take control of resources in a system) and protect smaller corps from combat. If they wanted to hold a specific location they would have to fight, but would not be doomed to unfair gankage in all corners of Eve).
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:05:00 - [90] Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 13/08/2008 22:05:13 Reasons for War Decs --Seeking actual Combat, the purest form of Eve. --Seeking victims. Lame, but its a dark galaxy. --Seeking extortion. Leads to a lot of "the little guy can't compete" posts, and the posts are true. But, Eve is a dark galaxy. --Seeking "Revenge". Not the best reason for a fight, but its a rough game. --etc I don't really worry about it much, although something to make it a bit rougher on those merely seeking victims/easy prey would not annoy me. Having said that, such a change would have to be done carefully. For the record, I approve of endless nerfs on those who merely log in to shoot 'victims' rather than 'opponents'. The problem is nerfing one WITHOUT nerfing the other, a near impossible task. Play nice while you butcher each other.

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