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Blacklight
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Posted - 2004.06.03 13:22:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Presidio Blacklight knows the whole story and the issue had been sorted out, ofcourse it wouldn't suprise me if he denied it.
I'm not denying anything and am a little surprised and put out that you would suggest that I might behave like that.
I do indeed know what went on, as do you. I don't believe DB's statement is a lie nor do I think it even remotely covers the full story of what went on between GODS and TheMM. However, I think this is another clear example of something we should not debate on the forums, so let's leave it at that. There's too much bad feeling and too many personal issues embroiled in this one and it won't help anyone to trawl through it on the forums.
NORAD's reasons for war are clearly stated in their own thread. Enough said I think.
Eve Blacklight Style
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Matrix Aran
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Posted - 2004.06.03 13:33:00 -
[32]
Why do I think it is now JF and RKK now on the defencive on the forums? Acording to my sources PA is putting up a great fight in the war and I see all this as JF and RKK trying to put up pathetic lists of reasons for fighting this war. The war is hear and present, and PA are fighting it, a doing a damn good job. Now you can either stay on these forums and try to defend why you started this war, or you can actualy undock and do some fighting. And yes I do believe RKK and JF have started this war by twisting words, nitpicking and agressing pa into a position on the forums without any formal complaints. That coupled with the chatlogs is enough to make me believe you are the agressors.
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Dave Toz
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Posted - 2004.06.03 13:39:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Dave Toz on 03/06/2004 13:40:51
Originally by: Sun Ra Edited by: Sun Ra on 03/06/2004 12:46:37
I personally don't want you to surrender, I am playing EVE for PVP! what is annoying is all these post saying PA did nothing to RKK or we started this over one event and we had no reason to fight and that Jade is twisting us and others to fight.
Fair comment, i feel this could be a far wider spread reason for the war.
We have a right and the willpower to defend ourselves both in game and on the forum which is one of your Allies Chosen Battlegrounds.
you wouldnt expect us to sit in station in venal and let you guys waltz in would you? neither should you (you being your little coalition)expect us to stand back while you and your allies waltz all over us on the forums.
Respect for admiting you just want to PVP, unfortunatly not all your coalition feel that way. needless to say im sure we will meet any attack, no matter what form it takes.
Again these are my views, not views of my corp or alliance
Dave
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Anede
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Posted - 2004.06.03 13:45:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Matrix Aran Why do I think it is now JF and RKK now on the defencive on the forums? Acording to my sources PA is putting up a great fight in the war and I see all this as JF and RKK trying to put up pathetic lists of reasons for fighting this war. The war is hear and present, and PA are fighting it, a doing a damn good job. Now you can either stay on these forums and try to defend why you started this war, or you can actualy undock and do some fighting. And yes I do believe RKK and JF have started this war by twisting words, nitpicking and agressing pa into a position on the forums without any formal complaints. That coupled with the chatlogs is enough to make me believe you are the agressors.
Where do people get the impression that you have to be docked to write on these forums?
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Fuffel
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Posted - 2004.06.03 14:08:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Fuffel on 03/06/2004 14:13:19 dbp..we shot Nafri, because this pilot in your ranks was not an ex-pirat and you told me yourself in a convo
not ex-pirat=pirat we hunting pirat, we see pirat, we shoot pirat..want me to draw a picture for you?
this incident is rather embarassing for your side, because your corp opened fire while we where in the talkings and I told my guys to "not engage"..but who cares?
You insulted me in that conversation and thats a thing me and my corp will never forget, so you are doing me a personal favor with this war
ok, its not that fair, because rkk smashed the mighty FE single-handed and we are only miners, but its better to try and die than to safespot in frigs all day long, dont you think?
- g |
Toulak
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Posted - 2004.06.03 14:14:00 -
[36]
Its spelt - pirate
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Fuffel
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Posted - 2004.06.03 14:15:00 -
[37]
nicht in Deutschland
- g |
Thesalaus
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Posted - 2004.06.03 14:16:00 -
[38]
Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 03/06/2004 12:33:07
Immoral and unprovoked war?
PA Pirating Activities
1. CDI members make a pirate corp 'because they were bored' and intended to go back to cdi once there was something to do.
2. CDI try and hire PLD to kill everyone in tribute who are not part of NAST.
3. CDI members charge 15mil a day for a mining pass in tribute.
4. CDI are spotted flying in gangs with Oracles of Curse.
5. CDI breaches every one of the rules set forth by the PA during there probation.
6. RONA start up an alt corp for pirating Techell.
7. GODS corp attack norad.
8. CDI go down and pirate in XETIC.
9. PA NAP with F-E.
10. PA NAP with CA.
11. PA attack their allies, Evolution, who had prior permission to travel through their space.
12. PA were in preparation for a full attack on FA before we began this war.
13. While fighting alongside RKK, c0d and FU agaisnt the joint F-E/CA forces in d7-, CDI attack and kill two friendly ships.
14. PA attack RKK friend in EC-P8R, when asked to stop they don't.
15. PA attack and kill Revolution ships after a peace treaty and under the flag of friendship.
PA in direct Aggression against RKK
1. After recieving confirmation from Halseth that we could use the H-PA station in venal, Mixmaster kills an RKK indie filled with bistot.
2. CDI aid CA to take a station held by RKK (recorded on FRAPS).
3. CE attack nafri without provication due to his ex-pirate background (*cough* tankuk/havocide etc etc are ok though? *cough*).
4. Occasus Republic attack the IMK factory station that is owned by RKK.
5. Rona-Kia, Bladerunners, and oberon destroy three RKK BS after we rightfully reclaim the D7 station with permission from the PA Leaders.
6. Dredd from blades states on FU TS that the PA council had decided last week to make RKK KOS, and was questioning why the FU would rather fight an alliance than a 20 man corp.
7. PA members go on to FU TS and tell FU members that RKK are attacking PA in venal and in EC-P8R when in fact we were all in Curse Space (ask CA - they killed my scorp).
8. CDI attack an RKK BS (strike) one hour after the PA agrees to reign them in and cease hostilities (this is when RONA said they would quit PA if they couldn't contain CDI - all recorded on TS).
9. CDI hires Havocide to circle our ships in tribute talking smack (after I had told PA specifically that any smack against us from CDI would result in war - no last chances).
10. After I informed PA I was going to move the corp to curse space to let things chill so we could repair the friendship, CDI attack and take our station 24 hours later.
11. 2 weeks ago, all PA corps put RKK to -10 without ANY forum post stating intent on war (hence why we didn't against you).
12. RKK BS (Gatechboi) is destroyed by PA forces "accidently".
Deny them and flame them all you want. I don't care.
They happened. Everyone knows they happened.
We know our reasons perfectly for going to war.
Do you know your reasons for defending your fellow PA corps?
dbp
DB Preacher, there has been enough calls on both sides to put an end to this endless forum posturing and listing of this and listing of that, and why we do what we do and why they did what they did.
I'm sure the general eve population has had enough, and people on both sides of the conflict has had enough of the rolling trolling forum flame fest.
There is nothing left to be said, all points of views have been expressed already in umpteen number of threads.
I had to get an extra special massage from my mate after subjecting my young eyes to everything that went on here yesterday.
As been stated before, the war is in-game, now let's settle it "in-game".
See you among the stars....and hopeful with several of your body parts spread among them as well.
Oberon Inc Website Oberon Sales Page
Pain |
Bucon
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Posted - 2004.06.03 14:34:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Walking Contradiction Let's not forget how the honourable PA hacked the JF forums by using someone else's account. GO PA GO!
Yeah that's some real hacking right there, fool!
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2004.06.03 14:46:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Fuffel Edited by: Fuffel on 03/06/2004 14:13:19 dbp..we shot Nafri, because this pilot in your ranks was not an ex-pirat and you told me yourself in a convo
not ex-pirat=pirat we hunting pirat, we see pirat, we shoot pirat..want me to draw a picture for you?
this incident is rather embarassing for your side, because your corp opened fire while we where in the talkings and I told my guys to "not engage"..but who cares?
You insulted me in that conversation and thats a thing me and my corp will never forget, so you are doing me a personal favor with this war
ok, its not that fair, because rkk smashed the mighty FE single-handed and we are only miners, but its better to try and die than to safespot in frigs all day long, dont you think?
I hope you shoot Havocide everytime you see him
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Blacklight
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Posted - 2004.06.03 14:47:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Thesalaus
DB Preacher, there has been enough calls on both sides to put an end to this endless forum posturing and listing of this and listing of that, and why we do what we do and why they did what they did.
I'm sure the general eve population has had enough, and people on both sides of the conflict has had enough of the rolling trolling forum flame fest.
There is nothing left to be said, all points of views have been expressed already in umpteen number of threads.
Whilst you are right Thesalaus further discussion is pretty pointless, I think DB's last post is actually the one in all this flamefest that probably should have come out much earlier in the debate.
Eve Blacklight Style
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Jadrut
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Posted - 2004.06.03 14:47:00 -
[42]
umm ok im bored
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Fuffel
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Posted - 2004.06.03 14:55:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sun Ra
I hope you shoot Havocide everytime you see him
oh, I see you already have a picture, saves me time...come out to play
- g |
Riddari
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Posted - 2004.06.03 14:59:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Bucon
Originally by: Walking Contradiction Let's not forget how the honourable PA hacked the JF forums by using someone else's account. GO PA GO!
Yeah that's some real hacking right there, fool!
Breach of User Agreement (the person logging in was not the person that was initially granted access), it's the felony right next door.
¼©¼ a history |
Aerick Dawn
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Posted - 2004.06.03 15:01:00 -
[45]
Havocide invites you to a gang, do you accept? N Havocide invites you to a gang, do you accept? N Havocide invites you to a gang, do you accept? N Havocide invites you to a gang, do you accept? Y
I accepted it, in my pod...in the middle of a horde of NPC's. His gang was a little surprised when they warped to me...
Such is the way of Havocide.
______________________
What Aerick has been up to lately.. |
Talsarius
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Posted - 2004.06.03 17:00:00 -
[46]
I agree Blacklight...
Thesalaus, you are dismissing a comprehensive list of incidents and occurences which explain a LOT.
There's a lot of smack and flames on these forums - but as a Co-CEO of one of the main PA corps - you are not doing yourself any favours when you fail to respond to such a compelling set of arguements.
Anyone who can so easily dismiss the basis for this war has no credibility at the diplomatic table - because it becomes apparent that the act of war is more interesting to them compared to the reason for having it.
Ouchies |
Fuffel
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Posted - 2004.06.03 17:20:00 -
[47]
Talsarius, plz do us all a favor and dont let us go to each and every point again
this is oooooooooooold stuff, all dealt with, all solved and all very boring
plus, the PA could get a list as long to prove why to other side is in the wrongs
so what?
we are fighting atm and its not forbidden to do that if you dont like each other.
I really dont understand why a merc corp needs a reason to attack someone or does a lecture in ethical stuff...
its all bout the money, its all bout the dammdammdudidumda and I do think its funny...
- g |
Gafton
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Posted - 2004.06.03 17:29:00 -
[48]
JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
Talsarius
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Posted - 2004.06.03 17:58:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Talsarius on 03/06/2004 18:04:02 Edited by: Talsarius on 03/06/2004 18:00:39 Having come to CoD only 5 weeks ago and not experienced the history of these problems, I have very much valued those few occasions where people have taken the time, thought and effort to put up a list of incidents in chronological order clearly explaining why they have decided to go to war.
Having initially defended PA when the Evol fleet moved through Deklein without warning to attack PA in Branch on Saturday - CoD defended PA because we did not all have the full knowledge of what has been taking place.
Since this incident, it has come to light that certain corps within PA have breached the conditions of some EXTREMELY necessary self imposed conditions (with Rona and Oberon themselves claiming that they would leave PA if CDi broke the conditions - which no matter how small - they still did - and then Rona and Oberon decided not to leave regardless).
Whoops. That's your credibility as an alliance flying out the window.
While we are battling each endlessly, it's useful for most people to have a good reason for why they are going into war.
So far, the there are two threads which clearly state solid reasons for hostility and on both occasions there has been no PA response (yet):
dbp's/ RKK's legit reasons for war
Legit reasons why CoD of NAST are at war
Is it so hard to address these points or is that no corp within PA that can because everyone within PA KNOWS they are guilty as hell and can't think of a cheap way to get out of it?
Be honest with yourself. It might hurt - but the empire of PA will last a lot longer if you allow honesty to thrive amongst your ranks.
Without reasonability, PA holds no credibility as an alliance and the more time that passes the more they will become known for that.
Result = PA with no friends. PA gets demonised. All the corps within PA have to bear that cross for what?
I honestly think that many of the guys in the PA corps are really good guys (especially some of the pvp's and Directors of some of these corps - there's just a clear lack of leadership or unity that allows them to represent the alliance as a whole from a justifiable sense. Why end your empire here?
I don't ask for PA opinion because I like flames - I just want to know if PA can demonstrate the behaviour of an honourable and reliable alliance rather then a bunch of people who are bored and like war and can't be bothered to justify their actions.
Short term battles can be waged back and forth - but in the long run - it's reasonability that will win - not blobs (trust me).
Ouchies |
Tobruk
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Posted - 2004.06.03 18:10:00 -
[50]
jf is so crooked you couldent balance them on friggen airstrip ----------------------------------------------
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Gafton
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Posted - 2004.06.03 18:14:00 -
[51]
thnx Talsarius for posting. We know your side, you know ours. Neither side will change and thus the end of the war will decide who was right and wrong. The fact remains that nobody provided evidence that cdi violated it's sanctions. People said they did but the pa will not act and remove a member without proof. Since nobody can show that evidence was provided before rkk attacked, we can only assume that rkk and jericho wanted the war. This assumption is supported by the documents that jericho has made public. While you believe you are right and we believe we are right, nothing will change opinions. I believe most of everyone is tired of the forum flames and crap so lets keep this ingame where it belongs.
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
Darken Two
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Posted - 2004.06.03 18:16:00 -
[52]
Talsarius, do not talk about things you have no idea about. Let me give you an example:
1. I was the first man on the moon. 2. I am CCP 3. I am the secret emperor of all of eve and you are all my slaves. 4. You slaves have rebelled and now you must pay. I hereby declare war.
there I made points too, with numberings and everything. Does not make it true tho. If you choose to believe everything written on these forums then that is your right but dont try to forcefeed others your garbage.
I viewed the CoD and FU as friends and now I see them as backstabbers. Does not mean Im right tho.
Also we have way more players in our alliance than our enemies, therefore by strength of numbers and by using your logic, we must be right.
Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
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Talsarius
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Posted - 2004.06.03 18:22:00 -
[53]
Gafton,
Those of us at war with PA have already seen the evidence concerning CDi.
This is why everyone is going to war with you (in case you hadn't noticed).
If you can't explain the actions don't bother posting - it just makes you look bad.
I'm just getting a really bad feeling that PA have no legitimate response to any of this because they are in the wrong.
I'm not fighting this war because it's fun - I'm fighting it because I want to do the right thing. So prove me wrong if we shouldn't keep killing you.
Ouchies |
Bobby Wilson
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Posted - 2004.06.03 18:26:00 -
[54]
After humouring the combatants yesterday, I'm moving to back to my previous position of ignoring the posts of anyone currently at war with us unless they are suing for peace.
I'll check every few hours to this thread to see if anyone other than the usual suspects has any questions. TBH with the week-end coming up we're all kinda looking forward to a couple of days of solid PvP.
BW
Originally by: Selim
Cool, congrats.
Oh, stupid idea by the way.
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Talsarius
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Posted - 2004.06.03 18:27:00 -
[55]
Wow Darken Two...
With your logic - it makes total sense why you're not in charge of anything.
Picture is getting clearer then ever.
If all PA have got is flames then so be it.
Cmon Bobby, Robeyone... any of you guys who've had the courage and leadership to hold things together in PA there.... is this justifiable or not?
Ouchies |
Darken Two
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Posted - 2004.06.03 18:28:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Darken Two on 03/06/2004 18:31:05
Originally by: Talsarius Gafton,
Those of us at war with PA have already seen the evidence concerning CDi.
This is why everyone is going to war with you (in case you hadn't noticed).
If you can't explain the actions don't bother posting - it just makes you look bad.
I'm just getting a really bad feeling that PA have no legitimate response to any of this because they are in the wrong.
I'm not fighting this war because it's fun - I'm fighting it because I want to do the right thing. So prove me wrong if we shouldn't keep killing you.
You dont get it do you? We dont have to prove anything to you. You believe anything you want to believe and we will do the same. All discussions end once the shooting starts and since the shooting has started we have nothing to say to you.
Ps. Talsarius, if you think Im a flaming retard, convo me ingame and I will discuss it with you.
Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
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Talsarius
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Posted - 2004.06.03 18:37:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Talsarius on 03/06/2004 18:40:21 Ok... well at least I get out of the office in 10 minutes.
Trust me - there's no place I'd rather be then on the battlefield.
You're right. You don't have to prove anything to me - you've helped PA prove everything to the whole of the Eve community instead.
PA want to fight and they have no reason.
You'll be happy to hear that I won't ask PA any more questions on the forum.
Thanks for clearing this up for me.
I look forward to ganking your haulers and miners when I get home.
Ouchies |
Darken Two
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Posted - 2004.06.03 18:41:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Talsarius Edited by: Talsarius on 03/06/2004 18:40:21 Ok... well at least I get out of the office in 10 minutes.
Trust me - there's no place I'd rather be then on the battlefield.
You're right. You don't have to prove anything to me - you've helped PA prove everything to the whole of the Eve community instead.
PA want to fight and they have no reason.
You'll be happy to hear that I won't ask PA any more questions on the forum.
Thanks for clearing this up for me.
I look forward to ganking your haulers and miners when I get home.
Thank you for your consideration and fight well.
Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
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Thesalaus
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Posted - 2004.06.03 18:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Talsarius So prove me wrong if we shouldn't keep killing you.
hehehe good one Talsarius, and isn't it us killing you all at about a 5:1 rate?
But I digress, Talsarius and others, as been stated before in numerous threads, everyone's positions are well known, and no one is changing.
Now the mature thing to do would be to step away from the forums and get involved with the war "in-game" in whatever way is helpful to your side.
Forum/ In-game Smacktalk = Bad
Introducing someone to the vacuum of space = Good
Oberon Inc Website Oberon Sales Page
Pain |
Bobby Wilson
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Posted - 2004.06.03 18:55:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Talsarius Wow Darken Two...
With your logic - it makes total sense why you're not in charge of anything.
Picture is getting clearer then ever.
If all PA have got is flames then so be it.
Cmon Bobby, Robeyone... any of you guys who've had the courage and leadership to hold things together in PA there.... is this justifiable or not?
Okay, I'll bite since you haven't actually personally attacked or insulted me yet.
Our reasons for war are listed in this post and in 100 other places, what it came down to was being attacked first.
As for CDi, a vote was put forward to expel CDi from the PA weeks ago. AFTER that vote was set, on 20 May Krullz went forward with a public apology and kicked out the two most problematic members of his corp. EVE community response was supportive of Krullz, the first page being the main antagonists now. DB Preacher posted this (excerpt, see the thread for more)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=81635&page=1
Originally by: DB Preacher Kudos to the PA and especially Halseth and KIAInkz for doing everything by the book. As much as RKK would like to complain and moan about the fact that we will not be able to shoot CDI, the fact remains that the PA has dealt with it to the best of their abilities.
Given that RKK was the strongest opponent of CDi, the fact that they had publically accepted Krullz apology, as did every other ally of RKK in this war (again read the first page of the thread). The whole page was 90% love fest for Krullz apology and the steps he had taken.
So here's the best part. CDi did that on their own while the vote to expel them was being considered. PA didn't plan it, Halseth didn't discuss or approve it with Krullz, and so had to see what public reaction to Krullz was.
AFTER everyone who'd been complaining about CDi publically accepted their apology, terms of probations were discussed and set (18 hours after Krullz posted, early AM on 21 May) then Hal posted this: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=81862
PA was obviously not going to go forward with a vote to expell CDi after the people most angry with CDi accepted their apology and said that "the PA has dealt with it to the best of their abilities." Why would we? The people complaining said they were satisfied.
That brings us to the crap we already know (22 to 29 May), which I won't re-iterate. I've posted on it again, and again, and again, and again. If you haven't read that bit, check here : http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=84426&page=2
BW
Originally by: Selim
Cool, congrats.
Oh, stupid idea by the way.
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