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Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:11:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 13/08/2008 14:16:38 A thought has suddenly occurred to me.
This whole ôpay for griefö thing can have a very very simple solution that may satisfy everyone. (or just make me very unpopular on this forum LOL)
Make wardec sum skill related. (just like buying a clone) Very simply . . . average the ages of every member in the corp which will = a wardec total (in Empire). Then, the ôgriefersö will actually have to do their job well in order to recoup the war cost when wardecing newbies.
Now granted, I am the type that prefers a more interesting fight, and I feel griefing in Empire space is comparable to cow tipping (if somehow you could find a way to make a substantial profit doing that in real life.) And I have no doubt that in real life people would do that too (if you could make those cows pay up!! ) hehehe
This idea is simple enough. Empire space should be were newbies play, learn and learn how to loose. 1.) No one stays there indefinitely. 2.) No one wars there indefinitely. So why should Eve's constant influx of new players be "griefed" indefinitely????
Now on the flip side say if griefers wanna wardec a corp of older mission runners in Empire? Well those mission runners are very very rich if they are doing there jobs right. Thus they can afford much more of a pay off then a newbie corp can. Thus . . . A higher average wardec sum can be more easily recouped and at least then things would be a little more interesting. (The wardecing corp will also have to actually risk a ship or two in the process to achieve there goal as well.)
Now that sounds like fun to me Station camping a noob CEO that can barely set their overview does not
It is also more along the ideal of the balanced universe universe that CCP is trying to achieve.
Dev's are you out there????
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Mortok Tristan
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:32:00 -
[2]
your assuming noone buys charaters in Eve. Age is irrelevant. |
Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:40:00 -
[3]
I'd like to know, though, on what basis CCP should use to deny wardecs?
Personally, I like playing EvE because they don't go imposing their morality on the game. You can scam someone, you can blow yourself up to kill someone, you can lie and cheat and steal ... and you can even be a bully.
Should CCP step in and act as a parent to those who can't stand being abused? Because, at what point do they stop? Isn't one of the primary things you learn from EvE the lesson that 'you have to take care of yourself?'
Quote:
If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ...
Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
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Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:45:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian This idea is simple enough. Empire space should be were newbies play, learn and learn how to loose. 1.) No one stays there indefinitely. 2.) No one wars there indefinitely
How are you going to make that happen?
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Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:47:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 13/08/2008 14:47:54 Thats always the argument, but if that were true why would Empire even exist, and what would be the point of the NPC corp? Why even have Concord?
EVE is a time specific RPG and new players actually have an in game antagonist that is their own sp. Your not fighting the griefers you are fighting the your own Sp . . .
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Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:50:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 13/08/2008 14:50:38
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian This idea is simple enough. Empire space should be were newbies play, learn and learn how to loose. 1.) No one stays there indefinitely. 2.) No one wars there indefinitely
How are you going to make that happen?
Not sure what you mean? Are planing on staying and waring in empire for the duration? That is the natural progression of 99% of the player base.
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Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Not sure what you mean? Are planing on staying and waring in empire for the duration? That is the natural progression of 99% of the player base.
Are you quite sura about that? Last I heard, something along the lines of 70% of the playerbase had never set foot outside high-sec...
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 13/08/2008 14:47:54 Thats always the argument, but if that were true why would Empire even exist, and what would be the point of the NPC corp? Why even have Concord?
EVE is a time specific RPG and new players actually have an in game antagonist that is their own sp. Your not fighting the griefers you are fighting the your own Sp . . .
First, Empire doesn't provide full protection. You get a police force, and it's really almost the bare minimum.
Secondly, players using the NPC corp for prolonged stays are exploiting the game mechanics for unlimited protections. CCP hasn't done anything about it yet, but I'm sure they'll get around to it. They didn't say using nano's, or stabs, or dual MWD's, etc, were 'exploits' either, until they up and suddenly changed it.
And as much as you fight your own SP, from the moment you enter game you are competing against every other player in the game. Every time you use the market, every ore you've mined, every dollar you spend or module you sell.
Quote:
If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ...
Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Not sure what you mean? Are planing on staying and waring in empire for the duration? That is the natural progression of 99% of the player base.
Are you quite sura about that? Last I heard, something along the lines of 70% of the playerbase had never set foot outside high-sec...
I believe the dev release said 50% live the majority of their life in hisec. Not 70%, and not 'never stepped foot'. I think it more than highlights a trend of 'I'm going to losec to PvP', which is a horrible outlook in EvE, where PvP and PvE is so deeply intertwined ...
Quote:
If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ...
Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
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Uncle ScroogeMcduck
Gallente Death's Knell
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:04:00 -
[10]
eve = sandbox
If you want people to stop picking on newbs encourage CCP to get the guys who are 3&4 yrs old out of NPC corps.
There is a simple mechanism to avoid war Decs..Its NPC corps. Don't punish the people who enjoy shooting, punish the people who have spent their entire lives in the same NPC corp. People would much rather war dec the veteran with expensive toys to loot over the noob with a T1 fit rifter.
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Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:48:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 13/08/2008 15:49:26 Easy twist of facts here . . .
1.) If I am wrong that most players do not stay in NPC corp forever then I am. I wouldnt imagine that would be the case. Unless you were a trader that is.
2.) Nano's seemed to be interfering with CCP's sense of universal balance. Not that it was a game exploit. Nerfs come to apply the ideal that they intended, and then players find new ways to imply methods that they had not accounted for apparently. And thus the next nerf . . .
Back on topic: Why is it such a big deal? Eve has a very unique way of skilling up. I know people who are well good enough to kick the crap out of Lv 4 missions and know all the triggers. The problem is the fact that they simply don't have the SP to unlock the ship and hit hard enough. They will . .. but not yet. And how long that will take is hardwired into the game.
So Empire griefers would have to pay a little more for an Empire wardec?
The result as I see it: would be wealthier more skillful players would be compelled to wardec corps of more an equal caliber to recoup losses and for a much better pay off.
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Stab Wounds
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:51:00 -
[12]
Just make war dec have to be agreed to fight for both corps.
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Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:53:00 -
[13]
I don't agree with that at all . . . that would make this WOW
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Drunk Driver
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 13/08/2008 14:16:38 A thought has suddenly occurred to me.
This whole ôpay for griefö thing can have a very very simple solution that may satisfy everyone. (or just make me very unpopular on this forum LOL)
Make wardec sum skill related. (just like buying a clone) Very simply . . . average the ages of every member in the corp which will = a wardec total (in Empire). Then, the ôgriefersö will actually have to do their job well in order to recoup the war cost when wardecing newbies.
Now granted, I am the type that prefers a more interesting fight, and I feel griefing in Empire space is comparable to cow tipping (if somehow you could find a way to make a substantial profit doing that in real life.) And I have no doubt that in real life people would do that too (if you could make those cows pay up!! ) hehehe
This idea is simple enough. Empire space should be were newbies play, learn and learn how to loose. 1.) No one stays there indefinitely. 2.) No one wars there indefinitely. So why should Eve's constant influx of new players be "griefed" indefinitely????
Now on the flip side say if griefers wanna wardec a corp of older mission runners in Empire? Well those mission runners are very very rich if they are doing there jobs right. Thus they can afford much more of a pay off then a newbie corp can. Thus . . . A higher average wardec sum can be more easily recouped and at least then things would be a little more interesting. (The wardecing corp will also have to actually risk a ship or two in the process to achieve there goal as well.)
Now that sounds like fun to me Station camping a noob CEO that can barely set their overview does not
It is also more along the ideal of the balanced universe universe that CCP is trying to achieve.
Dev's are you out there????
Empire --> almost always safe.
Low Sec --> hardly ever safe.
0.0 --> You're going to die, white boy!
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Kirex
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:55:00 -
[15]
"Empire griefers"?
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:00:00 -
[16]
Bribes per kill, costs scale according to relative losses, etc. -
DesuSigs |
Dracorimus
Caldari Edge Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ruze
Secondly, players using the NPC corp for prolonged stays are exploiting the game mechanics for unlimited protections. CCP hasn't done anything about it yet, but I'm sure they'll get around to it.
Rubbish, some people simply do not wish to enter a player run corp, and just wish to mission and do there own thing, no-one should be forced to join a corp JUST to make them vulnerable to lame ass griefers who wardec cos they find it fun.
If you wish to fight people then get your ass to 0.0 or go the low-sec piracy way, I have done it all in my 4 years playing, missions, piracy, 0.0 alliance, mercenarys.
NPC or newbie corps should be left alone, I do think however leaving a corp cos of a wardec is lame, this should be looked at for instance as it is sort of an exploit of game mechanics, if they would enforce a no-leaving or something similar policy during wartime, but then the griefers also could exploit that too, its a hard one to solve. - Die faster damnit! |
Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:07:00 -
[18]
Just for the record I believe people should be allowed total freedom in Eve. I like the fact that any corp can be wardec even in empire.
I don't like when I have friends that are being camped in stations for weeks by players that are years of age. That . . . seem to have nothing at all better to do with themselves.
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Nexa Necis
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:10:00 -
[19]
Your idea is pure fail. New players should have every much of a right to dec who they want without needing to have 3 years of SP built up.
Also the average age of a corp is easily manipulated by tossing 10 alt trial characters into it.
Also you have to keep in mind, the war dec system has to be kept fairly simple. CCP doesn't want to spend an inordinate amount of time coming up with a system that is so complex yet has so many holes in it due to the variables present.
As it stands right now, I get emails from people asking me how to even create a war since CCP's "instruction manual" sucks so bad. CCP's info page on war decs is woefully out of date. I love when war targets link it to me laughing because they think we are spending 50mil a week to dec them and it's only 2-6 mil a week. Right after I send them a screenie of our corp billing page, the wind gets knocked from their sails.
The system now works, but does have very obvious flaws, but all those flaws work in favor of the people who don't want war, so why would CCP make any changes to it since they seem to cater to making Eve a safer, less griefable space.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:12:00 -
[20]
If you don't want to be wardecced then you can always stay in the NPC corp. How is it griefing?
- Infectious - |
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Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:23:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 13/08/2008 16:24:13 Ill reply latter . .. off to work
And I love Lacuna Coil that is awesome
P.S. Pure fail says the admitted griefer . . . I totally disagree. Anything could be manipulated, but for a bunch of tech I loot, that a hell of allot of trouble. Would you do that????
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Karentaki
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian No one stays there indefinitely.
LIES!!! I what about all those people who've admitted on the forums that they do NOTHING but run L4's in highsec? What about macro miners? What about traders? What about all those people who think that jumping into lowsec/0.0=instadeath? ============= RE: The suicide nerf
Originally by: agent apple I believe I can safely speak for many of us when I say,
Dear Devs, Go Back to WOW
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Lord Haur
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:30:00 -
[23]
Did i read this right? Are you suggesting that if a corp has older players in it, the wardec cost should be higher because the older players have more? This train of thought surely leads to corps with newer players being cheaper to wardec. How is this supposed to help? --- Sig Starts Here --- Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
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Malcanis
We are Legend eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 13/08/2008 14:16:38 A thought has suddenly occurred to me.
This whole ôpay for griefö thing can have a very very simple solution that may satisfy everyone. (or just make me very unpopular on this forum LOL)
Make wardec sum skill related. (just like buying a clone) Very simply . . . average the ages of every member in the corp which will = a wardec total (in Empire). Then, the ôgriefersö will actually have to do their job well in order to recoup the war cost when wardecing newbies.
Now granted, I am the type that prefers a more interesting fight, and I feel griefing in Empire space is comparable to cow tipping (if somehow you could find a way to make a substantial profit doing that in real life.) And I have no doubt that in real life people would do that too (if you could make those cows pay up!! ) hehehe
This idea is simple enough. Empire space should be were newbies play, learn and learn how to loose. 1.) No one stays there indefinitely. 2.) No one wars there indefinitely. So why should Eve's constant influx of new players be "griefed" indefinitely????
Now on the flip side say if griefers wanna wardec a corp of older mission runners in Empire? Well those mission runners are very very rich if they are doing there jobs right. Thus they can afford much more of a pay off then a newbie corp can. Thus . . . A higher average wardec sum can be more easily recouped and at least then things would be a little more interesting. (The wardecing corp will also have to actually risk a ship or two in the process to achieve there goal as well.)
Now that sounds like fun to me Station camping a noob CEO that can barely set their overview does not
It is also more along the ideal of the balanced universe universe that CCP is trying to achieve.
Dev's are you out there????
So to support your vision of new players only in empire, I presume that in order to be consistent, you would agree to advocate that non-PvP characters should be similarly penalised. 1% tax per Million SP on all fiscal and item transactions seems fair and modest.
Or, alternatively, maybe you could just spread the word that it's taking a big risk to create a corp before you can defend it, and that maybe it's a good idea to get some experience, knowledge, skills and assets together before starting your own corp?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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