Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 .. 24 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
T'Pawhl
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 06:33:00 -
[511] - Quote
People on EVE talk about WoW a lot. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
318
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 11:28:00 -
[512] - Quote
Cyras DeValera wrote:Quote:Can-flipping as-is will be impossible once the safeties are added. Good bye, EVE, hello WoW in Space.
Can flipping as it stands:
Player A finds clueless noob (B), jet can mining. Player A steals everything from the can and puts it in their own can. (Giving B rights to attack them) Player B doesn't attack them (Generally a mining fit with no guns). They do however, take what was theirs back, clicking through the warning message like the idiot that most people are when they get one*. Player A proceeds to blow them away with no real risk to themselves.
Player A finds clueless noob (B), jet can mining. Player A steals everything from the can and puts it in their own can. (Giving Everyone rights to attack them) Player B doesn't attack them (Generally a mining fit with no guns). They do try to take their stuff back. They get stopped, with a message telling them that it's illegal, and they'll have to turn their safety off. If they are stupid enough to do /this/, then they can steal it back.
Then, 1 of three things happens: Player B turns the safety off, steals back, and is blown away. Player A gets bored and wanders off Player C comes along and tries to blow player A away
As long as the problem with player A not being able to fight back is resolved, then it's pretty much all good. All this will do is protect clueless newbies from their own stupidity. If they're actually willing to fight, then they'll be able to. If they're not, then it's pretty much just taking away a risk free kill.
* I've done tech support. I can't count the number of times people have told me they got a warning message, but they didn't read it and hit ok. A person might be smart. People are idiots. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
411
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 12:05:00 -
[513] - Quote
Liam Mirren wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:Liam Mirren wrote: They already get a warning message if they do something that gets you flagged, so what you're advocating is already in place.
Not really, since they can click ignore/cancel and uncheck the box right then and there as things are now. Noobie presented with a dialog box they may not understand. This new system means they can't do the action at all until they enable it deliberately. There is no "do it anyway" button on the message. "WARNING, IF YOU CLICK YES THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE YOU'LL BE ****** SIDEWAYS. DO YOU WANT TO CONTINUE? YES/NO" How fcking difficult is it?
Ask a can baited noob, they'll have more perspective I am sure. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
411
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 12:06:00 -
[514] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Revajin wrote:Wait wait wait. Let me get this straight. If you steal from a can now you are considered a criminal and anyone can attack you rather than just the can owner?
Why are can flippers mad about this? Because Greyscale's initial position was people shoot the can flipper, he can't shoot back or he'll be concorded. :) -Liang
But that is not the position any more by all accounts, so drop it :) |
Mr LaForge
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
263
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 12:06:00 -
[515] - Quote
Can we get a blog about this? Stuff Goes here |
Unforgiven Tu
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 12:45:00 -
[516] - Quote
Sometimes CCP should just listen to the small guy for a change -----> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=85394 |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
411
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 13:00:00 -
[517] - Quote
Vila eNorvic wrote:rootimus maximus wrote:I often "canflip"... my other toons. There are plenty of times when it's move convenient to jetcan stuff for a different toon to pickup. Given that my toons are mostly in different corps, that'll mean I'm going to be flagged for criminal behaviour that actually isn't. Well, actually it is. The game laws apply to in-game conditions. The fact that two characters happen to be controlled by the same player doesn't alter their in-game legal situation. If you want to use those tactics put the characters in the same corp - no problem.
Set individual standings to +10 between characters, problem solved, can even tractor +10 cans afaik |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
411
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 13:10:00 -
[518] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote: Not so sure about consensual war decs, but the limited engagement / duel and flagging interference from others as a global suspect is the way to go, ship it.
Doesn't need to be consensual, just needs to be limited
Agreed! The war dec talk addressed some of the concerns, including my self, had in that regard.
One thing that came up in the war dec presentation question was, Neut RR in war. Will that be flagged as "suspect" too? Please tell me it will be flagged as suspect! From what I can surmise, it will be. Neut RR distorts the whole war in high sec game play in favor of the meta and mechanics abuse. |
knowsitall
Science and Finance
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 14:17:00 -
[519] - Quote
First a disclaimer. i did not see the video and have only read page 1 of this thread so sorry if it is s repeat or misintrepation.
I read the suspect flag thing i like this idea but with a tweek. make the victim have to send a distress signal to flag the suspect. this was 1v1 pvp can still happen with can flipping and afk characters get no advantage .
Knowsiitall
|
Zircon Dasher
87
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 15:50:00 -
[520] - Quote
So can flip = flagged to everyone?
How the hell am I supposed to web my freighter alt into warp without being shot at by every Tom,****,and Harry? |
|
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
414
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 15:54:00 -
[521] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:So can flip = flagged to everyone?
How the hell am I supposed to web my freighter alt into warp without being shot at by every Tom,****,and Harry?
Same as today, your alt is in the same corp, right? |
Zircon Dasher
87
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 16:23:00 -
[522] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:So can flip = flagged to everyone?
How the hell am I supposed to web my freighter alt into warp without being shot at by every Tom,****,and Harry? Same as today, your alt is in the same corp, right?
eww. Why would I do that?
|
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
903
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 17:38:00 -
[523] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:So can flip = flagged to everyone?
How the hell am I supposed to web my freighter alt into warp without being shot at by every Tom,****,and Harry? Same as today, your alt is in the same corp, right?
+ it's a game mechanic exploit.
Also: -little pubbies that are risk averse and crying like little girls from the beginning of this thread, your tears are delicious. -man up and, if you really like pvp as you all claim and no one believes, you just move to null/low. -forget about high sec it's noobs zone, what are you still doing around there? -avoid losses? |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
415
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 17:43:00 -
[524] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote: + it's a game mechanic exploit.
It's the at the undocking and using it as the agressor that it is an exploit. |
Zircon Dasher
87
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 17:43:00 -
[525] - Quote
lol@ pubbies who think blowing up stuff in highsec is about the pvp. It is just too profitable to pass up. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
271
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 17:46:00 -
[526] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:forget about high sec it's noobs zone, what are you still doing around there? -avoid losses? It's not a "noobs zone" while people can make many tens of millions of ISK per hour (once again, not even going to mention 200m/hour incursions). |
Prince Kobol
278
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 17:48:00 -
[527] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote: -little pubbies that are risk averse and crying like little girls from the beginning of this thread, your tears are delicious. -man up and, if you really like pvp as you all claim and no one believes, you just move to null/low. -forget about high sec it's noobs zone, what are you still doing around there? -avoid losses?
Curious about something, am I to take it that you believe there should be no PvP in High Sec?
|
prolix travail
Blue Mountain Trails
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 18:29:00 -
[528] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:
Curious about something, am I to take it that you believe there should be no PvP in High Sec?
Exactly this. EvE is about pvp anywhere, anytime, consenual or not. If that isn't a game you want to play then go elsewhere.
|
MissyDark
Caldari Over Amarr
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 18:48:00 -
[529] - Quote
What the hell? No, no, nooooo! Leave aggro mechanics alone! |
Mimiru Minahiro
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 20:44:00 -
[530] - Quote
Hisec exploration will be 100000% more fun if theft flags you to everyone! DO IT! |
|
Brinxter
The Golden Guns Waterboard
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 23:15:00 -
[531] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote: Not so sure about consensual war decs, but the limited engagement / duel and flagging interference from others as a global suspect is the way to go, ship it.
Doesn't need to be consensual, just needs to be limited Agreed! The war dec talk addressed some of the concerns, including my self, had in that regard. One thing that came up in the war dec presentation question was, Neut RR in war. Will that be flagged as "suspect" too? Please tell me it will be flagged as suspect! From what I can surmise, it will be. Neut RR distorts the whole war in high sec game play in favor of the meta and mechanics abuse.
I just happen to have Greyscale cornered at FF and asked this exact question...
If two corps/alliances are at war and engaging eachother, some neutral douche warps in and reps one of the parties, he will inherit their agression timers and will also get the suspect flag |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 02:27:00 -
[532] - Quote
Okay, now I am sold. I responded to the war dec changes thread earlier, very discouraged, but after reading about the rest of the changes to high sec, including the new can flipping rules, the aggression changes for logo ships, and the incentives to kill pirates wherever you see them, I am convinced that my previous reaction was wrong.
The proposed changes are a real step forward for new players. They will not be faced with overly complicated aggression rules in high sec. Pirates will have to be a bit more fearful coming into the safer part of space. Ganking will be harder but will still be possible, but players will be less likely to choose it as a career and if they do they will face more consequence in terms of sec status.
Seen in this light, the changes to the war dec system appear more livable entirely.
The new changes will give newbies a fighting chance in the game, and will make the job of teaching the aggression rules much simpler.
If this is true and new players do come to the game and get a chance to train up in a safer environment, it will make them more likely to stay in the game, will increase the numbers of players, and will help everybody in the long run.
|
|
CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
995
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 02:43:00 -
[533] - Quote
Brinxter wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote: Not so sure about consensual war decs, but the limited engagement / duel and flagging interference from others as a global suspect is the way to go, ship it.
Doesn't need to be consensual, just needs to be limited Agreed! The war dec talk addressed some of the concerns, including my self, had in that regard. One thing that came up in the war dec presentation question was, Neut RR in war. Will that be flagged as "suspect" too? Please tell me it will be flagged as suspect! From what I can surmise, it will be. Neut RR distorts the whole war in high sec game play in favor of the meta and mechanics abuse. I just happen to have Greyscale cornered at FF and asked this exact question... If two corps/alliances are at war and engaging eachother, some neutral douche warps in and reps one of the parties, he will inherit their agression timers and will also get the suspect flag
"Probably" |
|
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
425
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 03:23:00 -
[534] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:"Probably"
Tease! |
Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
84
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 04:20:00 -
[535] - Quote
Seem like very good changes. I do think that preventing a player from defending himself against other players in any circumstances is a bad idea, but that seems to be off the table. Under no circumstances should one player be able to attack another with impunity that is enforced by game mechanics
This may have already been discussed, and so apologies in advance, but will a Suspect's corp/fleet members be able to return fire on someone who shoots the Suspect? Ninja fleets will probably just carry around remote-assist modules so that they can inherit the Suspect flag; forcing players to jump through hoops to acquire aggro doesn't seem like a good mechanic. And it might be good if prospective pirate-hunters had to worry about a Suspect's friends. At no point should the decision to open fire on a player's ship be trivial.
Second suggestion: make the Suspect flag reset every time someone shoots the Suspect or the Suspect shoots another player. This is to avoid situations where a pirate-hunter fleet lands on a Suspect only to find that half of them cannot engage the Suspect without getting Concorded.
Third suggestion: players flagged as Suspect should be subject to the same logoff mechanics as supercapital pilots. This is to prevent players who engage in criminal activity from simply logging off in space with impunity.
Fourth Suggestion: a ship whose maintenance bay is used by a Suspect should inherit the Suspect flag. This is to make swapping ships in an Orca and such somewhat more risky. However, with Suspect shootable by all of EVE, I don't think hotswapping in an Orca is a big issue.
Either way, look forward to finding out more, even if I don't live in high-sec anymore. |
Unforgiven Tu
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 05:59:00 -
[536] - Quote
The old code of "dont fly what u cant afford to lose" would not apply to eve anymore. u have made 1 grave mistake with a previous update. have fun doing it again. |
Msgerbs
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 06:06:00 -
[537] - Quote
Kessiaan wrote:I think it'll have just the opposite effect. Seems more like a disguised consensual pvp flag than anything else. I know everyone hates on the idea but I think may lead to a resurgence of solo pvp (and all the asshattery that goes along with it, ofc) in highsec. I'm curious how you see making you globally aggressed in a system filled with people with big guns waiting to shoot you encourages solo pvp? You flip your alt's can, that wolf engages you. All's good. Then 2 other guys warp in, you can't preemptively shoot or jam them. You don't even know if they're there to shoot you or just there because it's highsec and there are people. They both shoot you. You die. They're both still completely safe from anybody else.
It's just like low/null, except the blobbers are literally untouchable instead of figuratively.
Oh, and non-resetting fixed timers are a VERY bad idea. There's a reason the mechanics work that way, don't change it please. |
Darius III
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
1052
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 06:20:00 -
[538] - Quote
Not sure if this is covered yet, and 27 pages is a long read too long to find out, but:
The can aggro mechanic should be left alone as it is used by many people to get hisec fights 1v1. This is an integral part of Eve and I strongly urge you to leave it unchanged, OR make a nominal fine, say 1 M isk to have only the victim of the theft and his corp get aggression, and give an option to not pay and say "screw the police" and get aggression to everyone. Give the players a choice and dont take our ability to have agreed upon 1v1 fights in hisec.
I also would urge that you make theft aggress the not only the corp you stole from, but the players gang at that time and also their entire alliance. This moves towards what you are trying to achieve with the suspect flag, but does not impinge on other aspects of the game.
I recently participated in a roundtable discussion with the most experienced War deccers, Griefers, Can flippers, gankers, hooligans, ninja salvagers, awoxers etc. Many Eve luminaries participated:
Alekseyev Karrde of Noir., one of the most stable and longest-running merc corps of all time Cannibal Kane, can flipper, mercenary, and representative of the independent solo highsec pvper Lithalnas, director of Privateers, the group that was so OP at one point that CCP had to redesign the wardec system around their tactics Iam Widdershins of PRONS, known for their skill and prowess in nearly every aspect of Eve Istyn of Tactical Knightmare (also representing Suddenly Ninjas) Psychotic Monk (myself), CEO of The Skunkworks, known for their work in killing ignorant incursion runners and long-time wardeccers. ToxicOz, CEO of Double Tap, who are one of the most effective merc corps in highsec today. TS5P, director of The Orphanage, which needs no introduction
The discussion is on soundcloud, found here
Some of it was covered just after this meeting at fanfest and some of what was talked about is redundant but getting these guys together was productive and they truly represent the hisec combat playerbase
CCP and even the CSM have a lot of hardworking men and women who are very intelligent, working on making New Eden a better place-it is CCP management that I fear the most. D3 for CSM7 Direct link-á http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=480 |
Xinshon Xai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 08:01:00 -
[539] - Quote
Hopefully Devs will take a close look before they do this suspect thing. |
Sol Tertia
EVE University Ivy League
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 09:09:00 -
[540] - Quote
Darius III wrote:Not sure if this is covered yet, and 27 pages is a long read too long to find out, but:
The can aggro mechanic should be left alone as it is used by many people to get hisec fights 1v1. This is an integral part of Eve and I strongly urge you to leave it unchanged, OR make a nominal fine, say 1 M isk to have only the victim of the theft and his corp get aggression, and give an option to not pay and say "screw the police" and get aggression to everyone. Give the players a choice and dont take our ability to have agreed upon 1v1 fights in hisec.
That would result in no change to the current status quo, 1 million is a drop in the ocean and everyone would just pay. The illusion of choice is not the same as real choice. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 .. 24 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |