| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Topic |
vostok
Minmatar
Intrepid Proprietary Alliance
    |
Posted - 2008.08.15 10:39:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Edited by: Angelic Eviaran on 15/08/2008 10:30:53
Originally by: Tian Jade
A race does need the best ship in every aspect of the game.
Go tell that to the minmatar emo crowd. I don't see you educating them while they've been QQing all over the place for last months. Intresting how this argument is always used against amarr and not minmatar or the other races.
Besides, I trained amarr back when they were totally gimped also. Because I liked amarr ships. Youre preaching your fortune cookie wisdom to the choir.
Oh but I'm afraid I have been *****ing at minmatar, you may know me as wil smithx aka my amarr pilot.
|
Angelic Eviaran
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 10:43:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Rex Wolfen
....look ma  im in a [MEGA THREAD]
amar is fine
think about what this patch might do to the minmatars and the gallente blasterboats, that deservse a real [MEGA THREAD]
We need a mega thread because there are alot of ships that need fixing. Are you saying we should not fix broken ships?
|
vostok
Minmatar
Intrepid Proprietary Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 10:51:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Originally by: Rex Wolfen
....look ma im in a [MEGA THREAD]
amar is fine
think about what this patch might do to the minmatars and the gallente blasterboats, that deservse a real [MEGA THREAD]
We need a mega thread because there are alot of ships that need fixing. Are you saying we should not fix broken ships?
I believe what everybody is saying is that because these ships are not on par with their counterparts does not mean they are broken. Many of these ships in fact are above par with their counterparts and you just seem to have an inability to use them.
I would like to see any other recon solo engage a BS and win for example, only an amarr recon has a hope in hell of that but obviously they are hard done by.
|
Elhina Novae
Amarr
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 10:52:00 -
[34]
Retribution: Yeah this needs a fix. Remove the 5th slot so that we can have 2 mids on it please?
Prophecy: I dunno... 10% cap reduction per level, might as well use Projectiles.
------------
When I became the sun,
I shone life into the man¦s hearts. |
Burn Mac
Minmatar
Burning Steel Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 10:54:00 -
[35]
Give the omen a damage bonus instead of cap usage bonus and its the Amarr answer to the rupture.
 |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 10:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
We need a mega thread because there are alot of ships that need fixing. Are you saying we should not fix broken ships?
I'd say fixing two truly broken ships (Maller, Retribution) hardly deserves a megathread.
Omen is fine (compare it to the Stabber, or the Caracal, both in the same class), Vengeance is quite fine (yeah, it does low DPS, and yes, rockets in general could use a small boost. No, it's not broken.).
If you cared to get on SISI, Pilgrim is the solo killer of doom now, since it can both:
(a) Insure combat starts in scram range or doesn't start at all.
(b) Prevent MWD-ing ships from exerting any meaningful range control.
(c) Speed-tank a battleship at point-blank range while murdering its capacitor and tanking whatever drone damage it has.
Thanks to the SISI changes, Pilgrim has been fixed. Curse is fine (yes, you can't nano it, yes, nano-curses were preety damn overpowered).
The Tier 1 BC issue isn't a Amarr issue, it's a Tier 1 BC issue. Tier 1 BCs, as a rule, suck. Boosting the Amarr one would just make it overpowered compared to the other Tier 1 BCs, thereby producing another ship where Amarr have the best in class. So make a [Tier 1 BCs broken] thread.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint |
Angelic Eviaran
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 10:59:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Angelic Eviaran on 15/08/2008 11:00:11
Originally by: Cpt Branko
The Tier 1 BC issue isn't a Amarr issue, it's a Tier 1 BC issue. Tier 1 BCs, as a rule, suck. Boosting the Amarr one would just make it overpowered compared to the other Tier 1 BCs, thereby producing another ship where Amarr have the best in class. So make a [Tier 1 BCs broken] thread.
Actually no. Brutix can be used as rail platform and does very well as a blaster boat too. Nothing wrong with it at all. The ferox can be used for long range rail sniping as an alternative to missile boat drake. Useful and has its place.
Prophecy and cyclone are broken and have no use at all. There are basically no situations at all where youd rather be in proph or cyc instead of a harb or cane. That is broken.
Cyclone bit less broken because atleast there is one little reason to maybe pick it; If you have no armor tank skills and only shield tank skills.
Proph most broken tier 1 bc.
|
Evanga
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 11:08:00 -
[38]
Amarr is fine as it is, here is the proof 
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 11:11:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Actually no. Brutix can be used as rail platform and does very well as a blaster boat too. Nothing wrong with it at all.
There's no real reason to use it over a Myrmidon for close range. Mainly because it's a blaster-boat made out of paper thanks to its grid.
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
The ferox can be used for long range rail sniping as an alternative to missile boat drake. Useful and has its place.
I'd disagree about rail BCs being useful on the whole, but OK. Are there any reasons whatsoever to use a Ferox rather then a Drake for close-range engagements?
And, besides, there is one solid role for a Prophecy where it outshines the Harbringer: fitting a very nice buffer on it and using it for warfare links.
But anyway, on the whole, Tier 1 BCs need loving. The Brutix is the only borderline-useful one, and it suffers from the inability to fit gank+buffer (or rather, gank+anything if you go the neutron way).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint |
TimMc
Gallente
Genos Occidere
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 11:32:00 -
[40]
There is no pleasing some people...
But all the same, I agree with half of the stated problems. But Amarr is in a pretty good position generally at this point.
|
|
Ekrid
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 11:59:00 -
[41]
Use the maller properly ftw? It looks like a tank ship right? With its bonus to tanking, and its bonus to cap use of lasers, don't you think that firing faster via laser turret upgrade low slot modules is exactly what you should be doing to make the maller godly?
Look at it this way. this game is either tank, gank, or mix.
With the omen, it can REALLY gank, or it can mix tank and gank. With the maller, it can REALLY tank, or it can mix tank and gank.
What you should be thinking of, is ways to make TANK ships more important on a battlefield, so that they are as much or more of a priority target than gank setup ships.
After all, how do you kill a gank setup enemy cruiser if they have another cruiser constantly jamming you with ECMS? So you'll want to kill that cruiser first to get rid of it, but wait, now that you're trying to kill it INSTEAD, you're taking damage from the gank cruiser while that tank cruiser is still ruining your day jamming you whenever possible, and you only doing a little bit of damage to that super tanker in the very small window where the ECM jam fails and you get to lock on for a few seconds before getting lock broken again.
The tools are right there for people to use. The power of the ships is not in dispute, really it seems more like the intelligence and ability to make the best use of ships for small gang warfare by people is what is in dispute right now.
P.S. People say the punisher is one of the best frigates, Yet it bears the exact SAME bonuses as the maller. So whats the difference? Could it be people sucking in their fitting of cruisers and people who fly frigates competently dont also fly cruisers to tell you all you're wrong? One could say so, but then they'd be wrong too, because there is one here who is telling you how hard you all fail.
Look, I've broken the cycle. All hail me.
|
Sinder Ohm
Demonic Corp
G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 12:03:00 -
[42]
Hey you guys just had a boost, its minmatars turn next  |
Nai Weil
Caldari
Tupperware Party
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 12:10:00 -
[43]
As much as I do feel the 10% reduction to laser cap usage isn't as spectacular as something juicy like extra damage or rate of fire, I'd probably die if the ships I fly lost them. I'd cap out so frequently it wouldn't be funny. I believe the whole point of that bonus is that Amarr ships (well, some of them) should be the only ones which can sustain laser warfare, while other ships can fit them they're hardly going to use them well. The fact that Amarr ships can fit capless projectiles or lower-cap hybrids is just a bonus option. Lasers do not require ammo, and can change crystals in the blink of an eye. Other faction ships have to pay a premium for such versatility in terms of cap useage, while Amarr ships can happily continue to use them. See what happened to the Abaddon, one of the few notable ships to not have this bonus?
We can say it should be an inherent bonus in addition to two other bonuses - that'd be three bonuses. Whether it's a great bonus or lame bonus, it's still a unique benefit to the ship, and to give it on top of other bonuses just makes them overpowered.
Having said all that, there are some Amarr ships which could do with some love. Omen's Powergrid problems are scary. I can't even fit 5 Focused Medium Beams (by no means the biggest grid user among medium beams) and a T2 Repairer unless I train up AWU. I can use a Tech 1 Repairer, though, so it's not the end of the world. Maller lacks even a single drone. I didn't really feel the pinch when I fit 5 small pulses in the Duramaller setup, but having at least 15m¦ drone bay or so like the Omen would make it far more well-rounded. I mean Caldari use drones less than Amarr, and Caracal has 10m¦ drone bay. And Prophecy, the poor fat bird. If it's really going to be the significantly better tanker than the other Amarr Battlecruiser, it shouldn't have 12% less armour than the supposedly gank ship. Prophecy needs equal armour to the Binger, an extra low slot to fit more defensive modules (or just to compensate with an extra heat sink) and 50m¦ drone bay to at least use Hammerheads which will help its miserable DPS. Even then it'll be laughed at by Binger users, but at least it has something it excels at, even if nobody really wants to be the fat bait ship.
Finally, if Arbitrator is seriously the Amarr mining cruiser, then it needs another turret hardpoint or two (two would make it comparable to the Vexor). At least that way prospective miners have an option, otherwise the Omen is arguably a better mining option. And if it was meant to be, then Arbitrator's mining drone bonus is redundant.
|
Ambien Torca
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 12:10:00 -
[44]
Optimal range bonus for prophecy and maller making them finally useful for something else than taking it to the chin.
|
UGLYUGLY
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 12:23:00 -
[45]
Curse is great, I have never nano fitted one. Always gone with an armor tank. 1 Med rep, and EANM's and a DC. You have nothing to fear form anything sub BS. As nothing smaller can keep you there if you don't want to be. A few blasts from medium neuts will shut down a point. I'm sure alot of peoples hearts sank when they saw my curses armor rep back up  . TD's plus a MWD reduced incoming damage to something easily tankable. Of course I just avoid missile boats, but you got to pick your fights.
Pilgrim, eh. It's one of those ships, I love mine. Pick your fights. A range bonus would be nice, but I like it as it is now. It's one of those ships i have seen a million different set ups for, all with their merits.
Sentinel. Requires one mod, A cap booster. Even with two T2 OD's fitted you can fit 13, 200 charges in your cargo. I love swatting inties with it =D.
Vengeance can tank like no other, but I have to admit the rockets are just a joke.
Retribution
Mids are shocking
Only T1 Cruiser I felt had any real value is the arbitrator. All the others are meh.
but I LOVE AMARR!!!
|
Ambien Torca
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 12:34:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ekrid
Use the maller properly ftw? It looks like a tank ship right? With its bonus to tanking, and its bonus to cap use of lasers, don't you think that firing faster via laser turret upgrade low slot modules is exactly what you should be doing to make the maller godly?
Look at it this way. this game is either tank, gank, or mix.
With the omen, it can REALLY gank, or it can mix tank and gank. With the maller, it can REALLY tank, or it can mix tank and gank.
What you should be thinking of, is ways to make TANK ships more important on a battlefield, so that they are as much or more of a priority target than gank setup ships.
After all, how do you kill a gank setup enemy cruiser if they have another cruiser constantly jamming you with ECMS? So you'll want to kill that cruiser first to get rid of it, but wait, now that you're trying to kill it INSTEAD, you're taking damage from the gank cruiser while that tank cruiser is still ruining your day jamming you whenever possible, and you only doing a little bit of damage to that super tanker in the very small window where the ECM jam fails and you get to lock on for a few seconds before getting lock broken again.
The tools are right there for people to use. The power of the ships is not in dispute, really it seems more like the intelligence and ability to make the best use of ships for small gang warfare by people is what is in dispute right now.
P.S. People say the punisher is one of the best frigates, Yet it bears the exact SAME bonuses as the maller. So whats the difference? Could it be people sucking in their fitting of cruisers and people who fly frigates competently dont also fly cruisers to tell you all you're wrong? One could say so, but then they'd be wrong too, because there is one here who is telling you how hard you all fail.
Look, I've broken the cycle. All hail me.
Maller with 5 heavy pulses with AM Multis and 3 heat sink does 344 dps. It¦s over 200 less than what rupture can do and about half what thorax/vexor can do in gank mode. Oh, and it even doesn¦t have fittings to do that really after fitting those guns your grid is already mostly used up. If you go with focused pulses you drop under 300 dps and still can¦t tank, not enough grid to fit 1600 plate either if you want to have a propulsion mod and/or maybe injector. Compared to 180mm dual AC / 1600 plate ruppie it¦s pathetic.
Punisher is ok because it can use autocannons and use cap savings to fuel it¦s tank (if you fitted a repper) and still not be too much behind most other frigates in damage. Mind you, it has a problem with it¦s med slots so you have to forgo web/scram or propulsion mod. Sometimes pilots just fit web and scram with 400mm plate and wait the other guy to close in to web range. If they don¦t come close then you can¦t really do anything.
|
Darahk J'olonar
Gallente
Trans Eve Organization
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 12:51:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Darahk J''olonar on 15/08/2008 12:52:10
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Edited by: Angelic Eviaran on 15/08/2008 09:48:35
Edited by: Angelic Eviaran on 15/08/2008 09:24:15
New patches come and go but the amarr problem is ignored. There are several ships that are very broken in the amarr fleet. I hope our fixes can also be included when they start fixing other races.
Retribution:
-Needs 2 mids. Remove useless 5th utility high and put it in mid. Lets face it, why have a utility slot for a ship with range bonus. Utterly stupid.
Vengeance:
-Rocket damage needs a boost just like torps got a boost for being close range weapons.
Omen:
-Needs more powergrid. If you cant fit the lowest tier pulses and cant fit anything else after that you know the ship is broken. This ship needs fitting because its a very crummy ship right now.
Maller:
-No use at all. Its a tanking ship of t1 cruiser class = useless. It needs more damage. Give it a damage bonus.
-Or you could keep the tanking bonus but give it a big drone bay.
Augoror:
-Caldari get a shield transfer bonus on their support cruiser, why isn't amarr getting armor transfer instead of cap transfer?
Curse:
-Will be useless after nano nerf. Without nano it has no tank. If you try to run your ew, wich is neuts + td, you dont have any cap for running tank. If you run a tank youre useless. CCP needs to give the curse the ability to inherently run its ew without 50 cap mods in mids and lows. Same goes for pilgrim.
Pilgrim:
-Range issue still not fixed. All other recons have range bonus except pilgrim. This is obviously wrong. Also same problem as curse: Cant inherently run its ew without 50 cap mods.
Sentinel:
-Same problem as curse. Cant inherently run its ew. Sure you can kill inties in it but a combat inty can do that too. This ship is weak. It also is the only ship class that doesnt get a hp boost compared to its t1 hull eventhough its a t2 ship. All EAS needs more armor and hull etc.
Prophecy:
-Epic fail tier 1 bc. There is simply no reason at all to fly this ship. Yes harbinger can outtank it quite well and do twice the damage while doing that.
-This ship needs bigger drone bay to be useful or get more dps by gun bonus or extra turret. The tank bonus + big drone bay can be an allright combo.
Crystals:
-There should be an option to switch crystal type on whole rack, or the ability to instantly switch ammo has little practical use.
Retribution - Fine as it is. I see its' role as that of the high damage gang AF nothing more, nothing less.
Vengeance - Damned near perfect.
Omen - Yeah it needs some love in the fitting dept.
Maller - Good as is. Really nice tank, decent damage and easy to fit.
Augoror - you would think that, wouldn't you?
Curse and Pilgrim - Damned near perfect. The curse will be just as viable post patch and the pilgrim due to the web change will be that much better.
Sentinel - meh... it needs something maybe a better recharge rate or some more cap.
Prophecy - It's a cheap BC, who cares? Fit it for full gank let loose and smile!
Crystals - Couldn't agree with you more. What's the point of insta-swap if you have to do it individually?
 |
Ekrid
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 12:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ambien Torca
Optimal range bonus for prophecy and maller making them finally useful for something else than taking it to the chin.
Lasers are medium range weapons. Read their flavor text on laser turrets. compare the different ranges of different classes of turrets.
Theres a reason amarr use weapon disruptors. It nerfs enemy turret ranges and tracking speed.
With lasers, you either get in range somehow, either warping to it, or AB or MWD while a tackler holds the enemy, or you force the enemy to get closer to you via weapon disruptors, or you warp off.
Stop trying to make snipers out of every single amarr ship, start learning how to force the encounter into your range where you have superior damage dealing capability and can fire continuously where others have to reload, and you'll start doing better with amarr ships.
|
Shevar
Minmatar
A.W.M
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 12:58:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Edited by: Angelic Eviaran on 15/08/2008 09:48:35
Edited by: Angelic Eviaran on 15/08/2008 09:24:15
New patches come and go but the amarr problem is ignored. There are several ships that are very broken in the amarr fleet. I hope our fixes can also be included when they start fixing other races.
Retribution:
-Needs 2 mids. Remove useless 5th utility high and put it in mid. Lets face it, why have a utility slot for a ship with range bonus. Utterly stupid.
Vengeance:
-Rocket damage needs a boost just like torps got a boost for being close range weapons.
Omen:
-Needs more powergrid. If you cant fit the lowest tier pulses and cant fit anything else after that you know the ship is broken. This ship needs fitting because its a very crummy ship right now.
Maller:
-No use at all. Its a tanking ship of t1 cruiser class = useless. It needs more damage. Give it a damage bonus.
-Or you could keep the tanking bonus but give it a big drone bay.
Augoror:
-Caldari get a shield transfer bonus on their support cruiser, why isn't amarr getting armor transfer instead of cap transfer?
Curse:
-Will be useless after nano nerf. Without nano it has no tank. If you try to run your ew, wich is neuts + td, you dont have any cap for running tank. If you run a tank youre useless. CCP needs to give the curse the ability to inherently run its ew without 50 cap mods in mids and lows. Same goes for pilgrim.
Pilgrim:
-Range issue still not fixed. All other recons have range bonus except pilgrim. This is obviously wrong. Also same problem as curse: Cant inherently run its ew without 50 cap mods.
Sentinel:
-Same problem as curse. Cant inherently run its ew. Sure you can kill inties in it but a combat inty can do that too. This ship is weak. It also is the only ship class that doesnt get a hp boost compared to its t1 hull eventhough its a t2 ship. All EAS needs more armor and hull etc.
Prophecy:
-Epic fail tier 1 bc. There is simply no reason at all to fly this ship. Yes harbinger can outtank it quite well and do twice the damage while doing that.
-This ship needs bigger drone bay to be useful or get more dps by gun bonus or extra turret. The tank bonus + big drone bay can be an allright combo.
Crystals:
-There should be an option to switch crystal type on whole rack, or the ability to instantly switch ammo has little practical use.
I fly amarr and the only points I really agree with are crystals and the omen.
And if speed wouldn't have been nerfed I would want a pilgrim boost as well, but first I will rather see how the nano-nerf pans out.
---
-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
EveTerrorist
Brigands
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 13:48:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Misina Arlath
Two major fixes I want for Amarr ships.
First off, the "bonus" to cap usage on guns is redicilous. No other races have a bonus added as a crutch to their ships to simply make them able to operate their guns. Do Caldari need CPU bonus to their ships to fit launcher? Does Gallente need Grid bonus to their ship to fit blasters?
Why should Amarr need Cap bonus to ship to fire lasers? If the lasers drain so much Cap that a bonus is needed, then the Cap usage bonus to the ship should be a passive bonus to Amarr ships, or the cap usage for lasers should be lowered. Lowering the cap usage on lasers would make it easier to use them on other race ships, but so what? Can't Amarr already fit launchers, blasters, railguns, artillery and autocannons as they please?
Lower the Cap usage on lasers, or give ALL Amarr ships a passive bonus to how much cap the lasers drain, and give the ships a useful 2nd ship bonus. Caldari, Gallente and Minamtar ships all have 2 bonuses that are greatly useful, such as extra drone damage, better tracking, improved optimal or falloff ranges, improved damage et.c.
Where Amarr gets a crap bonus to Cap usage on guns and a damage bonus, other ships get a bonus to damage AND to track speed or ranges. W.T.F?
Also, though perhaps a detail, just like "Reload all" when you right click your weapon modules while in space, please add a "Change all crystals to..." feature in the same menu.
As much as I love flying the Amarr ships, the "bonus" to the turret cap usage makes me die a little inside everytime I see it.
QFT
 |
|
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 14:03:00 -
[51]
Oh wow, people still whine about Amarr even after all the buffs they've got? 
@OP, Most of the ships you listed are fine. Every race has issues with their ships; heck at least your Command Ships have more PG than a Stabber
- Infectious - |
7shining7one7
Don Rico's Massive Rainbow Storage
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 14:08:00 -
[52]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 15/08/2008 14:09:19
nvm.. can't be bothered.
|
Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 14:12:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
-Needs 2 mids. Remove useless 5th utility high and put it in mid. Lets face it, why have a utility slot for a ship with range bonus. Utterly stupid.
Fun fact- the range bonus is awesome, lets you get 14-15km range with scorch.
Utility high is nice for overloading, or to throw a small nos on it to get some more cap at close-range.
One mid sucks though, since you don't have enough tracking to kill light drones unless you increase transversal with an AB or fit a web, which means one of those two mods is mandatory so you don't get randomly owned by t2 hobgoblins.
I would be all for giving all AF's an extra slot though. They all have 11, except the ishkur, which has 10 but has the drone bay to compensate.
Quote:
Vengeance:
-Rocket damage needs a boost just like torps got a boost for being close range weapons.
Rockets do suck pretty hard but let's face it if you're flying a Vengeance damage isn't really your main priority. It does seem a little odd that bonused rocket damage is less than unbonused turret damage. The vengeance does tank marvelously well for a frigate - it can actually permarun dual-reps with a little difficulty.
Quote:
Omen:
-Needs more powergrid.
This is mostly because they didn't give the Omen any more fitting when they gave it a 5th turret, but yes it is rather skint on fittings. Please swap the teirs on the maller and omen.
Quote:
Maller
Frankly the maller could stay as it is, just let it give up it's spot in the cruiser tier lineup to the omen.
Quote:
Augoror:
-Caldari get a shield transfer bonus on their support cruiser, why isn't amarr getting armor transfer instead of cap transfer?
Because Amarr are the cap race?
Quote:
Curse:
-Will be useless after nano nerf.
People actually used to armor tank their curses, if you can believe that. They did quite well in them.
Then again, that was before the changes to nos/neut, but whatever.
I guess go with 3 nos, 2 neuts in the high, MWD, tackle, TDs and cap mods, then armor tank in the lows.
Tank their drones and whatever damage gets through your TD/neuts, suck away their cap slowly with the nos, after you're both pretty much cap dead, turn off the reps and start cycling the neuts to keep them dead?
Could work.
Quote:
Pilgrim:
Will be really, really mean once the speed changes go through.
Quote:
Sentinel:
Agreed that all EAS need more HP but I've heard that the sentinel is one of the better ones - thought it went Kitsune/Sentinel/Hyena/Keres.
Quote:
Prophecy:
They both have 6 low slots, and the prophecy's resist bonus makes up for the difference in armor and then some - the Harbinger does not outtake a prophecy given similar fits.
Sure, it CAN - fit some tanking mods on the harb and none on the proph, and behold, the harb tanks better.
6 guns + no damage bonus + 25m3 drones sort of sucks though. Then again, all of the teir 1 BCs are sketchy. Fit it with blasters maybe..?
Quote:
Crystals:
-There should be an option to switch crystal type on whole rack, or the ability to instantly switch ammo has little practical use.
Ability to quickly switch ammo is, in fact, useful as it is right now, not quite sure what you're talking about.
"Change all" or "load all with this" is something that we definitely need, for all modules in the game that use charges / scripts. It's just easier.
Amarr is in a pretty good place right now though, and every races have a pile of bad ships.
__________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
|
Ambien Torca
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 14:12:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Ambien Torca on 15/08/2008 14:16:11
Originally by: Ekrid
Originally by: Ambien Torca
Optimal range bonus for prophecy and maller making them finally useful for something else than taking it to the chin.
Lasers are medium range weapons. Read their flavor text on laser turrets. compare the different ranges of different classes of turrets.
Theres a reason amarr use weapon disruptors. It nerfs enemy turret ranges and tracking speed.
With lasers, you either get in range somehow, either warping to it, or AB or MWD while a tackler holds the enemy, or you force the enemy to get closer to you via weapon disruptors, or you warp off.
Stop trying to make snipers out of every single amarr ship, start learning how to force the encounter into your range where you have superior damage dealing capability and can fire continuously where others have to reload, and you'll start doing better with amarr ships.
All amarr ships? You are hilarious troll (I hope).
So why did I propose to make maller and prophecy long range platforms? Because they don¦t currently have real niche and maller is travesty for a tier 3 cruiser (by the way I also loathe tier system which tends to make ships within same category become obsolete as soon as new "tier" is introduced). Apoc and zealot form a decent presedent for having lower end boats with enhanced range. Rupture, thorax and even lowly moa have roles where they excel (more or less), heck rupture is awesome close range ship and also pretty good cheap arty platform. Ships without at least some role = fail. And no, just tanking is not much of a role especially after HICs were introduced.
Tracking disruptors have absolutely nothing to do with this topic and I have no idea how your managed to bring them up here. TD:s can be used effectively by any ship that has extra mids anyway and work terrifically well against amarr. Speaking about superior damage dealing ability and maller/prophecy in same sentence is just so wrong, something on the vein of saying salt tasting sweet.
Speaking about tier 1 BC:s: Brutix = pretty good, Ferox = passable sniper, Cyclone = umm damage sponge? lol surprise ew platform?, Prophecy = useless compared to harbinger especially now when buffer tanks are all the rage.
|
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Imperial Servants
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 14:20:00 -
[55]
No, Amarr are fine.
Retribution suck as a solo PvP ship, but is a great damage dealer, just needs a friend (what is wrong with that?).
Laser cap usage bonus is a good bonus. We need it to run our guns efficiently, just like Minmatarr need their RoF bonus and Gallente their trakcing bonus. Again, what's wrong with a bonus slightly different with the rest?
To better illustrate my point, compare these numbers.
Focused Medium Pulse Laser I:
Rof: 4.05
Dam: 2 Dam/Sec (0.493827)
Cap: 8
Track: 0.09
180mm AC I:
Rof: 4.50
Dam: 2.0625 Dam/Sec (0.4584)
Cap: 0
Track:0.132
Heavy Electron Blaster I:
Rof: 3
Dam: 1.75 Dam/Sec (0.5833)
Cap: 2.8
Track: 0.12
I have not taken into account ranges at all.
|
PAcifisti
Paisti
Paisti Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 14:32:00 -
[56]
Amarr isnt the only one with "broken shipbonus"
Just look at all caldari gunboats, 10% bonus to optimal range per level. I know this might sound weird but just think about it..
CCP was too lazy to create us our own guns that would have enough range without shipbonuses to work in our role as long range specialists. So instead we're given Hybrids from the gallente and reserving a rangebonus on all gunboats to compensate for the missing optimal.
Doesn't that sound familiar? One bonus used on every gunboat to compensate for a flaw in your guns so that you can be able to function in your intended role with the ship?
And while we're on the topic, all minmatar ships with double dmg bonus (rof & dmg) are quite the same in the way that they have to have 2 dmg bonuses just to get enough dps in their class, while other races get to the same dps values with just one dmg bonus (ie. Harbinger vs Hurricane) again "losing" a bonus to compensate for your guns.
Well, that was quite a rant. I just hope people would understand that the "broken bonus" problem isnt limited only to amarr ships,
You can never understand the Pain |
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Imperial Servants
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 14:46:00 -
[57]
Originally by: PAcifisti
Amarr isnt the only one with "broken shipbonus"
Just look at all caldari gunboats, 10% bonus to optimal range per level. I know this might sound weird but just think about it..
CCP was too lazy to create us our own guns that would have enough range without shipbonuses to work in our role as long range specialists. So instead we're given Hybrids from the gallente and reserving a rangebonus on all gunboats to compensate for the missing optimal.
Doesn't that sound familiar? One bonus used on every gunboat to compensate for a flaw in your guns so that you can be able to function in your intended role with the ship?
And while we're on the topic, all minmatar ships with double dmg bonus (rof & dmg) are quite the same in the way that they have to have 2 dmg bonuses just to get enough dps in their class, while other races get to the same dps values with just one dmg bonus (ie. Harbinger vs Hurricane) again "losing" a bonus to compensate for your guns.
Well, that was quite a rant. I just hope people would understand that the "broken bonus" problem isnt limited only to amarr ships,
You got it exactly right. And that's how it should stay. Lasers are only really useful on Amarr ships, because our ship bonuses mend the hole in the laser weapon system.
Minmatarr ships mend the flaw of projectiles.
Gallente mend hybrids.
Otherwise we would be back to the time where Ravens flew around with Tachs, because they were just so much better than missiles or hybrid guns.
|
Lili Lu
Victory Not Vengeance
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 15:42:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Edited by: Angelic Eviaran on 15/08/2008 09:48:35
Edited by: Angelic Eviaran on 15/08/2008 09:24:15
New patches come and go but the amarr problem is ignored. There are several ships that are very broken in the amarr fleet. I hope our fixes can also be included when they start fixing other races.
Retribution: Needs 2 mids. Remove useless 5th utility high and put it in mid. Lets face it, why have a utility slot for a ship with range bonus. Utterly stupid.
Vengeance: Rocket damage needs a boost just like torps got a boost for being close range weapons.
Omen: Needs more powergrid. If you cant fit the lowest tier pulses and cant fit anything else after that you know the ship is broken. This ship needs fitting because its a very crummy ship right now.
Maller: No use at all. Its a tanking ship of t1 cruiser class = useless. It needs more damage. Give it a damage bonus. Or you could keep the tanking bonus but give it a big drone bay.
Augoror: Caldari get a shield transfer bonus on their support cruiser, why isn't amarr getting armor transfer instead of cap transfer?
Curse: Will be useless after nano nerf. Without nano it has no tank. If you try to run your ew, wich is neuts + td, you dont have any cap for running tank. If you run a tank youre useless. CCP needs to give the curse the ability to inherently run its ew without 50 cap mods in mids and lows. Same goes for pilgrim.
Pilgrim: Range issue still not fixed. All other recons have range bonus except pilgrim. This is obviously wrong. Also same problem as curse: Cant inherently run its ew without 50 cap mods.
Sentinel: Same problem as curse. Cant inherently run its ew. Sure you can kill inties in it but a combat inty can do that too. This ship is weak. It also is the only ship class that doesnt get a hp boost compared to its t1 hull eventhough its a t2 ship. All EAS needs more armor and hull etc.
Prophecy: Epic fail tier 1 bc. There is simply no reason at all to fly this ship. Yes harbinger can outtank it quite well and do twice the damage while doing that. This ship needs bigger drone bay to be useful or get more dps by gun bonus or extra turret. The tank bonus + big drone bay can be an allright combo.
Crystals: There should be an option to switch crystal type on whole rack, or the ability to instantly switch ammo has little practical use.
Retribution - yes the amarr one midslot ships are terrible. agree, remove a high and put it in mid.
Vengeance - yes rockets need a minor tweak, would help alot of ships, not just the vengeance.
Omen - ok, yes slight buff for the pg and/or cpu on the ship, it is a hard ship to fit, and increase the drone bay to 25m3
Maller - no, the fix for the maller (and Amarr generally) is to slightly reduce the base cap use on all lasers, then the 10% reduction might make it worth fitting lasers. a 15m3 drone bay like the omen presently gets might be nice too.
Augorer - nope, gallente gets the armor transfer. sucks for minmatar too, remote tracking boost on the scythe  . what the scythe and auguror both need to compensate is a bit larger drone bay.
Curse - maybe increase the base cap. there is a trick to nos/neuts now though, it just requires the right circumstances. this ship is still rather good. Recons in general though (except the overpowered ecm on Caldari) need a minor bit of help.
Pilgrim - just swap the amount bonus for the range bonus on energy transfer. won't make it a great ship but it will have some more surviveability. and buff the cargo bay and cap as well.
Sentinel - honestly all these ships are pretty worthless imo, (except the caldari one of course, ecm uber alles)
Prophecy - again reducing base laser cap usage a bit overall might make it worth using the 10% bonus, and maybe another launcher slot or increased drone bay.
Crystals - no, already a comparative amarr advantage.
No major changes, just slight. Amarr is ok.
|
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 15:50:00 -
[59]
Amarr is borderline overpowered, and you want to make ALL of your ships useful?
HA.
Dream on. Minmatar boost patch is next. I can't believe you're whining about some useless ships when your other ships are dominating..
|
Lili Lu
Victory Not Vengeance
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 15:55:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Lili Lu on 15/08/2008 16:04:39
In general on the 10% cap bonus - CCP likes it. They want people to fit their ships with the racial weapons. So they make lasers suck buttloads of cap. Projectiles have a terrible rof. Hybrid have bad tracking.
However, with laser cap usage, and I would also argue with projectile RoF they overdid it. Either give Amarr ships a 12.5% per level reduction or just reduce base cap usage of lasers a little.
For Minmatar however they need to increase the RoF bonus per level to 7.5%. Projectiles are already slighty attractive to other race ships. ANd please also increase the clip size a little bit.
These two minor changes (baby steps are all that is needed) fix Minmatar DPS complaints, and AMarr cap out complaints. Each will still have problems in those areas they just won't be so severe.
Hybrid tracking i really have not found to be a problem on my Gallente toons ships. ANd the optimal bonus on my Caldari toons ships is rather nice, you start doing damage earlier and you can use higher damage ammo at farther ranges also to compensate.
edit - Minmatar presently is quite nice, except for the above problem with projectiles. However, if the speed nerf goes through as contemplated, Minmatar will need a little help. Bonus on web stregth, or at least increase the range bonus on the Rapier/Huginn. Actually, gallente needs a bonus on damp amount, Minmatar on web range, and Amarr on neut range. All those could be slightly done. And the Caldari ecm boats need a slight reduction in range (Falcons are overpowered).
Without changes, after the speed nerf patch all we would see is fleets of torp ravens to take out big ships, the overpowered passive tank drakes spewing light and heavy missiles at all the smaller ships, and Falcons all over the place screwing the gunboat snipers until someone provides a warp in for the torp ravens. Caldari online would have trully arrived.
|
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |