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Anjou
Amarr Igneus Auctorita
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Posted - 2008.08.16 01:47:00 -
[1]
Predation. We've all seen it, or at least heard of it, at one point or another. Some have participated in it, whilst others are hapless victims. A predatory player is, generally, a high-SP player who enjoys ambushing and harassing (though racketeering [protection money] or out-right ship/equipment destruction) lower-SP players, or simply players that are caught in an unarmed or lower-tier ship. "Gate Camping" is common, as is simple banditry. Many players are, each day, attacked and have their ships and equipment destroyed for no more reason than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And that's not very fun is it? Well, for the victim. I imagine it's great sport for the Player Killers. But this frustrates and downright angers many players, especially the ones who aren't interested in EVE's brand of so-called 'PVP'. Before certain people start clamoring about "it's called PVP" and such, let me point out just what PVP means. Player Versus Player. The "versus" indicates that it is a match between two (or more) people. A massacre is not a match; it's just being a jerk. Most EVE players fail to understand this. Whether it is a lack of respect for their fellow players or just that they have no consideration for anyone but themselves, I don't know and I'm not going to explore that here. The point is, it's not very nice and it makes a lot of people's lives that much worse. If you're going to play an MMO, you need to be able to get along with people. But, since letting people do that on their own isn't working in a general sense, I'd suggest regulating PVP. I, personally, would suggest a toggle that lets players on an Alliance, Corporation, or personal level decide if they want to be open for player-to-player aggression.
Discussion is encouraged.
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.16 02:15:00 -
[2]
One of EVE's most attractive features is that it is a single server.
Other games have regular servers, possibly with pvp zones, and pvp servers in which players can attack other players without prior consent, or even warning. EVE has one server and the character of that server is one of non-consentual PVP. That's by game design and it is what had attracted a sizable portion of the game community in one way or another. PVP fuels the market as well as the PVPers and the competition it generates both directly and indirectly is what keeps the game interesting.
.5 and higher security has elements of safety to protect the unwary or the uniterested. .4 and lower you actually need to pay attention to the game. There are game mechanics which give you prior warning to potenital hostile player activity, chiefly the map and local. Working with other players, like the teamwork of which you spoke, is another defense by scouting and sharing intelligence. And when it absolutly cant be avoided, there 2 player professions which an preyed upon player can seek for assistance: the mercenaries and the anti-pirates/griefers.
Some elements player combat mechanics do need to be tweaked but it's not further regulating and restricting the occurence. Give antipirates some kind of reward system for their work, fix the bounty system, take insurence payouts away from those that break concord engagement laws 15 min prior to their ship destruction. This increases the risk and loss for would be predators.
But at the same time, fix local, the map, and mechanics that promote large blob combat so that the PVP that does occur, willingly and unwillingly, can be more rewarding for all. ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
Fahtim Meidires
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.16 03:32:00 -
[3]
For every player in EVE that is angered by the encounters you describe, there is some other player in EVE who loves the tears.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.08.16 04:13:00 -
[4]
Eve is a MMO based around a fairly brutal system of PvP. Anyone undocked can be attacked at any time. There may be consequences for this, but there's no ban on it. And that's quite intentional. It's a very different style that attracts a different player base. Scammers, pirates, griefers, the works - all are welcome here, when more traditional MMOs try to throw them out on their ear.
I'm not normally the sort of person to reply to every whine with "GB2WoW", but in this case it might well be justified. The experience you're looking for is fundamentally different from the one Eve seeks to provide. If that is truly your opinion, and you're not just trolling, then perhaps an alternate MMO might actually be best for you. ------------------ Fix the forums! |
SOFcode Z777
Caldari Human Enhancement Tech.
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Posted - 2008.08.16 05:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Eve is a MMO based around a fairly brutal system of PvP. Anyone undocked can be attacked at any time. There may be consequences for this, but there's no ban on it. And that's quite intentional. It's a very different style that attracts a different player base. Scammers, pirates, griefers, the works - all are welcome here, when more traditional MMOs try to throw them out on their ear.
I'm not normally the sort of person to reply to every whine with "GB2WoW", but in this case it might well be justified. The experience you're looking for is fundamentally different from the one Eve seeks to provide. If that is truly your opinion, and you're not just trolling, then perhaps an alternate MMO might actually be best for you.
The tendencies of the newest dev blogs and features implemented ( and to be implemented)at EvE does show that CCP is not turning eve into this brutal only game that you describe eve to be. This is simply untrue because EvE is still a business and as any business it will go with the market tendency which is not what you are saying that EvE seeks to provide. Also, no, there is no need to seek alternate MMO, actually this isn't a healthy way to conduct a debate simply asking people to quit the game insie EvE forums.
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Baaldor
Caldari Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.16 06:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Anjou Sandy vag
Who are you? And WTF are you talking about?
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Falaricae
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Posted - 2008.08.16 06:48:00 -
[7]
What a horrible game braking idea to allow a pvp toggle. Not breaking in the sense that it wouldn't work, but in the sense that it would kill the whole game as it is today.
The nice thing about EVE is that it offers a single gameworld with some framework, but basicly tries to impose as little artificial limits as possible. Those limits that are imposed, like the recent suicide gank nerf, usually make sense in the gameworld and only provide consequences. Nothing prevents you from actually suiciding your ships even with the new rules.
The uneven PvP situations that the OP talks about are just consequences of this given freedom, realistic and to be expected. In this game we have safetynets so we are always able to get back up after falling and try again. We can also fail miserably, since we have to compete with other players in the things that matter. Because you can actually lose things here, you wont pull any punches when competing with other players. It's you and your allies versus potentially everyone else. This is PvP when you remove all the artificial constraints that usually limit people in games and it's how things work in EVE and in IRL.
Yes this is only a game, but it tries to create a deep, varied, living world. The safety the OP is asking can be achieved with experience, skill and common sense even in this game, but the method she is proposing doesn't belong in EVE and isn't even needed. Keep in mind that all the options that are available to them are available to you too. Here you just have to actually put some effort yourself and work with others to level that playing field. The immortality, highsec and easy isk should be all the entitlement that a player ever needs in EVE.
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Odhinn Vinlandii
Shadows of the Dead Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.18 23:11:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Anjou Predation. We've all seen it, or at least heard of it, at one point or another. Some have participated in it, whilst others are hapless victims. A predatory player is, generally, a high-SP player who enjoys ambushing and harassing (though racketeering [protection money] or out-right ship/equipment destruction) lower-SP players, or simply players that are caught in an unarmed or lower-tier ship. "Gate Camping" is common, as is simple banditry. Many players are, each day, attacked and have their ships and equipment destroyed for no more reason than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And that's not very fun is it? Well, for the victim. I imagine it's great sport for the Player Killers. But this frustrates and downright angers many players, especially the ones who aren't interested in EVE's brand of so-called 'PVP'. Before certain people start clamoring about "it's called PVP" and such, let me point out just what PVP means. Player Versus Player. The "versus" indicates that it is a match between two (or more) people. A massacre is not a match; it's just being a jerk. Most EVE players fail to understand this. Whether it is a lack of respect for their fellow players or just that they have no consideration for anyone but themselves, I don't know and I'm not going to explore that here. The point is, it's not very nice and it makes a lot of people's lives that much worse. If you're going to play an MMO, you need to be able to get along with people. But, since letting people do that on their own isn't working in a general sense, I'd suggest regulating PVP. I, personally, would suggest a toggle that lets players on an Alliance, Corporation, or personal level decide if they want to be open for player-to-player aggression.
Discussion is encouraged.
It would be easier for you to go play another game rather than to change the fundamentals of EVE's design.
That is not a little quip either. According to your post, you simply do not like EVE.
Well, ok, EVE is not for everyone. However, many of us like EVE for being an actual game rather than mouse-click-************ such as WoW.
I like the fact that EVE takes long term planning, and not just 5mins to find a monster and hit a button.
If you chose to stay with EVE, think of it this way...
Logging into EVE is consent to PVP. |
Drave McClay
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.19 00:18:00 -
[9]
what no this is a horrible idea |
Page Appleton
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Posted - 2008.08.19 00:56:00 -
[10]
Posting in a brilliant troll thread. |
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2008.08.20 00:56:00 -
[11]
What's wrong with 'predation'? Beating on other players are what Eve's non-consensual pvp system is founded on and driven by.
Go play another game if you don't consent to pvp by logging in.
PvP flags? LOL.
What utter tripe. |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2008.08.20 20:27:00 -
[12]
I think this is a fake post, am I right? |
Zappapapa
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.20 22:43:00 -
[13]
Predation? Where's Chris Hansen when you need him?
Go ahead and have a seat over there... According to these logs you wanted this carebear to have pvp relations with you.
No no, I just wanted to do missions with him really!
Then why did you send him a link to your warp disruptor?
That was just a mistake really!
And you brought ECM with you?
*pathetic crying* I'm soo sorry, please forgive me! |
Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.21 04:47:00 -
[14]
Probable troll post is probably a troll, however:
Originally by: Anjou But this frustrates and downright angers many players, especially the ones who aren't interested in EVE's brand of so-called 'PVP'.
THEN WHY THE **** ARE THEY PLAYING EVE ONLINE?
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Lia Gaeren
Caldari Pole Dancing Vixens
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Posted - 2008.08.21 15:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Joss Sparq Probable troll post is probably a troll, however:
Originally by: Anjou But this frustrates and downright angers many players, especially the ones who aren't interested in EVE's brand of so-called 'PVP'.
THEN WHY THE **** ARE THEY PLAYING EVE ONLINE?
The key here is in the phrase 'so-called PVP'. I don't do it personally but it looks to me like there's no player skill involved, it boils down to who has the biggest blob, the biggest SP total or the biggest wallet. If that actually is the case, I can understand why people wouldn't bother with it.
Besides, EVE is a complex and involving game - the pew vs pew is only one level. Industry, mining, missions, ratting, etc... are other levels, and if people enjoy those more than the pew vs pew, then ... <shrug>
Speaking AS a high sec carebear however, a certain level of player predation is necessary to keep a little bit of edge in the game. If this was in the assembly hall, it would not be getting my thumbs-up |
Farrqua
Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 17:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lia Gaeren
Originally by: Joss Sparq Probable troll post is probably a troll, however:
Originally by: Anjou But this frustrates and downright angers many players, especially the ones who aren't interested in EVE's brand of so-called 'PVP'.
THEN WHY THE **** ARE THEY PLAYING EVE ONLINE?
The key here is in the phrase 'so-called PVP'. I don't do it personally but it looks to me like there's no player skill involved, it boils down to who has the biggest blob, the biggest SP total or the biggest wallet. If that actually is the case, I can understand why people wouldn't bother with it.
Besides, EVE is a complex and involving game - the pew vs pew is only one level. Industry, mining, missions, ratting, etc... are other levels, and if people enjoy those more than the pew vs pew, then ... <shrug>
Speaking AS a high sec carebear however, a certain level of player predation is necessary to keep a little bit of edge in the game. If this was in the assembly hall, it would not be getting my thumbs-up
So you are saying you are willing to support a topic that is obviously a troll post and you have no experience in what so ever. Nice. |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.08.22 01:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Farrqua
Originally by: Lia Gaeren If this was in the assembly hall, it would not be getting my thumbs-up
So you are saying you are willing to support a topic that is obviously a troll post and you have no experience in what so ever. Nice.
Read that again. ------------------ Fix the forums! |
Farrqua
Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.22 17:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Farrqua
Originally by: Lia Gaeren If this was in the assembly hall, it would not be getting my thumbs-up
So you are saying you are willing to support a topic that is obviously a troll post and you have no experience in what so ever. Nice.
Read that again.
Hmm yea, I missed that. Old eyes.
Sorry Lia.
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Karentaki
Gallente Fighting While Intoxicated
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Posted - 2008.08.24 16:56:00 -
[19]
Posting in the WOW-immigrant thread of the week
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.08.24 20:00:00 -
[20]
Troll. Based on the content of the OP, I'd give it a 3/10. However, since you managed to nail so many people with it, I'll give you a 6/10.
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Mediastinum
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.08.25 02:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Anjou Predation............ Player Versus Player...... is,.... not very nice and it makes a lot of people's lives ...... worse. If you're going to play an MMO............. I'd suggest ..... PVP. I, personally, would suggest ......... player-to-player aggression......... is encouraged.
When I looked for a cool Sci-fi MMORPG after SWG was bast@rdized by SOE, I found EvE. The description explained to me that this is a brutal environment. Everything I read, all the research I've done, my first 14 days, they all reinforced that this game is brutal.
I choose to pay the monthly, I choose to log in and play knowing there is no PvE server and there does not need to be one. The choices to play are made when we pay.
PvP = Player v. Player
EvE = Everyone v. Everyone |
Val Sharen
Caldari Freewind Ventures
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Posted - 2008.08.27 04:05:00 -
[22]
I have to agree that the system is brutal, it tries to mirror life and life is brutal and real. You can get hurt and you can be killed just by walking out your door. Here it is if you undock. It is why we have to pay attention in RL and have to do so here.
Simple maxim to remember DO NOT UNDOCK UNLESS YOUR READY TO LOSE YOUR SHIP AND ITS KIT.
If you never undock then you never have to worry about getting shot. You will just stagnant. Same for real life, take no chances and you will be nothing and accomplish nothing.
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Tom Zerrek
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Posted - 2008.08.27 19:34:00 -
[23]
Involuntary combat is why i play eve. 3.3mill sp, i don't fly around ganking people. Irl theres involuntary combat, at least concord has a decent response time
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Rafael Cane
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.08.28 12:05:00 -
[24]
What the OP describes is real. But it¦s up to the reasonable players to deal with people with bad habits IN the game.
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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.08.31 19:48:00 -
[25]
Making some people immune to pvp won't have devastating effects on the market, oh no.
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Xultanis
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Posted - 2008.09.03 12:43:00 -
[26]
Lets take this from a player and game stand point. For the longest time from the point EvE was created. The game was mostly advertised by word of mouth. When such mouth would describe EvE, it would describe it as a vast world with limitless possibilities but cold and dark repercussions for the unaware. What made, and what currently makes this game is the fact that it is player ran and player based. PvP as you so describe as a "versus" between players is an ignorant remark to video games in general.
This game strives on the fact that its a cold world and that people have equal opportunity. If you were the victim of a gate camp well then that is your fault. Who told you to go into low sec without a scout? If you got hit in high sec well again that's your fault for not paying attention to what your doing. I once lost over 200m to 300m worth of mods and implants because I was carelessly transporting to Jita. I thought that if I autopiloted there I would be safe by the time I returned from whatever I was doing. (In the age before warp to 0, when Bookmarks were a lucrative business). I was horribly mistaken. When I get back I'm in my pod and my ship was destroyed. Almost everything blew up in the explosion, so the suicide was worth nothing. However, when I realized what happen I was more angry with myself because I knew better. I knew what people were capable of and I knew what I was transporting was valuable enough to suicide run for.
People who do it just to make someone cry, people who do it as a business. These are the game mechanics and I hope it doesn't change. I don't want this game turning into another WoW. A game where people complain because they don't want to make a choice with the options they were given.
The market would also fall if we took out the PvP or gave people the option to fly where they wanted without consequence. How you ask? Where do you think the stuff from the market comes from? How does everything get built? For what purpose do people put out sell orders and buy orders? Its because we need it. Its supply and demand. If someone blows up your ship, well hell your going to need another one. Not only will you need a new ship but new mods. How about something to replace those implants you lost? Everything that is sold, (except for certain skill books bought at rookie stations) is sold by the player, everything that is built is built by the player.
PvP fuels the market for supply and demand. If things weren't lost then there would be no demand. If there's no demand then there's no supply. Ultimately killing this game since the only possible way to make isk is to rat. If we end up having to rat for isk then again this turns into another WoW where people have to kill Npc's to turn a profit. WoW doesn't have people completely committed to supplying the auction house with stuff, no people just put shit in there hoping it will sell not knowing anything. Not only that you have to grind and grind to get stronger just to farm. Not to mention have the stuff in that game is lost through the raw materials it takes to make some of those items. You can reprocess toilet paper in EvE to make raw mats.
Eve has a dedicated player base for mining, researching, and building. EvE gave these players a choice to do what all that by giving other players the choice to give them a reason to do all that. If you don't want to be caught up in the mess that is pirating then you better take the necessary precautions because guess what.....EvE gave you the choice to be able to do that, if you don't want to then live with the consequences of being spanked around.
With this my rant is over. So basically please before posting look at things objectively and intelligently before you go ranting off just because someone popped your balloon. This game was MADE to be cold.
*PS - sorry if my grammar or spelling is off. I just recently lost a finger to a work related injury so I'm still getting used to typing.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.04 17:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Farrqua Hmm yea, I missed that. Old eyes.
Sorry Lia.
Posting in an Epic Thread, where a Player in EvE actually apologized for something. Good on ya, Farrqua.
We're Recruiting! |
Lia Gaeren
Caldari Pole Dancing Vixens
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Posted - 2008.09.04 23:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Originally by: Farrqua Hmm yea, I missed that. Old eyes.
Sorry Lia.
Posting in an Epic Thread, where a Player in EvE actually apologized for something. Good on ya, Farrqua.
No kidding - I'm posting from the hospital ward, still in recovery.
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jaybo34
Caldari Mentis Fidelis Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.05 11:23:00 -
[29]
Ok so alot of people do camp gates for the fun of it and the killmails. But one thing you should know is most pvp alliances camp the 0.0/low sec gates to their space , while they may enjoy doing this it is for security reasons not just to bully carebears.
Oh and by the way the first thing you learn when u start a new char in eve is that it's a dark and dangerous universe.
Also i know heaps of guys that have been pvping since they were a few months old. Look at agony empire and goons for instance.
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Mara Devortex
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Posted - 2008.09.05 11:55:00 -
[30]
Eve is and aways will be a dangerous predacious place...however that isnt to say that such predation should be so easy that it holds no real consequence..Eve is also about the choices you make and the consequences of those choices..so those 16 BS's camping the Jita gate to insta pop that Huge lumbering freighter(you know the one without ANY module slots)well they will go boom..but should it be so e-z for them to grab BILLIONS of isk and meanwhile collect issurance(Rumor has it you still can btw)for said BS?Yes they lose sec rating but hell even id consider losing sec status for a few hundred billion isk with the promise of insurance money (Still).
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