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kiki mo
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
8
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Posted - 2012.03.22 22:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/1tLtR.jpg
New "suspect" flag - Minor crimes. Anyone can shoot you without penalty - Flipping a can for example - Anyone assisting a suspect becomes a suspect - Not sure if gate guns will attack a suspect
All of the above seems fine...right? The twist on this; at least as far as I've been led to believe is that
- Killing somebody, while you are a 'suspect' incurs a sec status hit (even if they shoot at you first) up to -5 - Killing somebody, who is +5, while you are a 'suspect' incurs a sec status hit up to -10 - The 'assisting' suspect-flagged RR pilot also incurs the security hit if a ship was killed
So, since this won't stop the hisec ganking (until that eventually gets nerfed into impossibility this coming year), do you think the idea is to 'force' more people into Low-Sec and Null while protecting the new bear population?
Do you think that will work? It seems, to me at least, to be aimed at the ninjas, can-flippers and other ne'er-do-wells of hisec with the intention of creating a completely safe zone. War decs can be scraped off, bounties don't mean a thing, plus apparently there will be one-time settable toggles to set it so you never, unintentionally, ever go red to somebody else.
My guess is that with Empire space as a completely safe zone, with no possibility of non-consesual PvP or any player to player content, this will pretty much end up being a completely safe and boring high-sec, (still) nearly-empty lowsec and the continued Null power blocks (if you're not 'in' with them and the politics, you'll be in hisec safety)
thoughts?
My thought is that it will eventually seriously degrade the game as it was first introduced and even how it is played today. People who start Eve to just try it out will stay in high-sec (unless they have friends in the null alliances) and play for a while until they get bored of the grind. You will no longer have the ****-fit navy Dominix that dies in his mission, gets an adrenaline rush he'd never experienced before, gets excited and learns more about fitting a ship properly who then either is motivated to move to nullsec or become a white knight to combat the 'honorless internet jerks'...or possibly become one of the 'jerks' themselves. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
143
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Posted - 2012.03.22 22:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Seriously, your alliance should consider changing its name to Self Tear Extraction and Reclamation Services.
Why is it that high sec grief players, gankers (preying on the weak) are so afraid of consequences to their actions?
You spout all types of rhetoric (risk, u not safe!, GBWOW), but as soon as some risk to your riskless profession is talked about you flood the forums with tears. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
299
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Posted - 2012.03.22 22:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thoughts:
They're driving a Caterpillar D-12 through our sandbox to try and force all of us into null, so many of them being the ****-sucking lickspittle little pets of null-barons.
**** them, and their owners, if it ever happens that those are our only choices, then I am gone, right ******* now.
They've already nerfed ninja-salvaging into the ground, wardec'ing is done--just waiting for the Do Not Resuscitate order to be officially read--everything about the combat engine favours alts and blobs--and looks like suicide-ganking may be next.
EVE as I knew and came to love it is moribund, if not dead already, and has been for some time.
HiSec was/is one of the last true sandboxes left--for those of us who "got" EVE. Now it's just fluffy safe little carebear-land.
****, just multi-shard it into PvE- and PvP-only servers, already, CCP. It's obvious that you want to.
I pray that I am wrong here, but it looks less and less that I am. In irae, veritas. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
565
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Posted - 2012.03.22 22:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fails to mention killing a -5 or lower player will gain you sec status...
If you take it ALL into consideration, seems like a lowsec buff to me. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1439
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Posted - 2012.03.22 22:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
So far, I don't see any issues there. But the information given doesn't seem very detailed.
Flipping a can and being KOS for everybody would be PERFECT ! It would finally end all the cowards and bigmouths who hide behind stupid game mechanics and pretend to be big bad men with skills. They need to realize what they are. Cowards.
Want to fight ? Either go to lowsec or live as outlaw in highsec ! Plenty of fights and/or fun to be had either way ! As outlaw in highsec, EVERYBODY is your enemy ! :D
It would end stupid station "pvp" where players dock up if real danger starts.
If this helps removing the cowards from highsec, or teach them better behaviour, then i'm all for it.
*lol* I want to see the people at Hek undock with these game mechanics ... HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :D
Edit: Could anybody please explain to me why these changes would "force" anybody to low/nullsec ? Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Karma Bad
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
0
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Posted - 2012.03.22 22:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
I have come to love this game over the years..... BUT really , how much more punishment can highsec pvper's take.
Atm I am actualy more ok with Pay to Win than... Here have a part of space where nothing but npc's can do anything to you. |
kiki mo
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
9
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Posted - 2012.03.22 22:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
so far, all but one of the responses are interesting and thoughtful. I expected that one response though.
I had not seen the part about gaining sec status for shooting -5's.
Any other thoughts? |
Gnaw LF
2
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Posted - 2012.03.22 22:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tears from Suddenly Ninjas are the sweetest tears, EVER. Maybe you should try a form of pvp where you are hostile to more then a single target in the system?
I am all for the suspect flag. On the other hand they do need to remove the whole war dec shield mechanic.
Also, add "associate" flag into the game. If a corp is war decced and the member leaves the corp he should be flagged as "associate" and still be hostile to the opposing party in the conflict (basically the player will carry the war dec with him even after leaving the corp) until the war is resolved. Also, once flagged as associate the player wont be able to join other corps for the duration of the war dec. This should put some responsibility and loyalty on the corp membership and stop all the bunny hopping. |
IAMBOB
Caldari Provisions
0
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Posted - 2012.03.22 22:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
All sounds good to me thus far. It will take some polish but it seems to make HiSec a more Target Rich environment if you work it properly... |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
566
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Posted - 2012.03.22 23:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gnaw LF wrote:Tears from Suddenly Ninjas are the sweetest tears, EVER. Maybe you should try a form of pvp where you are hostile to more then a single target in the system?
I am all for the suspect flag. On the other hand they do need to remove the whole war dec shield mechanic.
Also, add "associate" flag into the game. If a corp is war decced and the member leaves the corp he should be flagged as "associate" and still be hostile to the opposing party in the conflict (basically the player will carry the war dec with him even after leaving the corp) until the war is resolved. Also, once flagged as associate the player wont be able to join other corps for the duration of the war dec. This should put some responsibility and loyalty on the corp membership and stop all the bunny hopping. Let him join other corps, but make the 'associate' flag visible so recruiters know what they are getting, and make the wardec stick to the individual, not carry over to the new corp.
Free kill if you catch him alone, but he can still make new friends. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
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kiki mo
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
9
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Posted - 2012.03.22 23:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
LOL, more tears comments...keep em coming!
On the other hand, the second part was interesting enough to garner a response.
What do you think the chances are that CCP will eliminate the dec-shield and dec-scraping? Have you heard anything serious, or was that wishful thinking? Have you heard anything about the 'associate' tag for jumping corp? That would be an interesting mechanic and I think would actually be good... but I seriously think that removing PvP from hisec is CCP's current goal. Allowing for a loophole like that would mean CCP actually would like people to fight in hisec...something they have not demonstrated recently.
Also, for the other response about living as an outlaw...I'd almost agree with the possibility of actually being a true -10 'outlaw' as envisioned if these changes go through...but I'd like to propose then, that it be reciprical and balanced...thus, -10 players would actually be welcomed at lowsec stations where pirate factions control it...and positive standings players would be shot at by the station guns, the npc police and possibly the gate guns, depending on the security status of the system. On a humorous thought; spawn NPC police if positive-status players enter the system and attempt to 'patrol the pirates'. I hardly think it's logical that people are allowed to sit around Guristas stations and have offices there that are positive standing.
I'd think that the possible benefit to a 'balanced and reciprocal' system like this would actually have people voluntarily move to lowsec.
Thoughts? |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
143
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Posted - 2012.03.22 23:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
kiki mo wrote:so far, all but one of the responses are interesting and thoughtful. Perhaps you'll remember your own comment next time your alliance posts a stupid comment about how they love carebear tears.
But I doubt it .
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Atomik Harmonik
Working Girls
22
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Posted - 2012.03.22 23:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Good discussions over in this thread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=978676 |
kiki mo
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
9
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Posted - 2012.03.22 23:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:kiki mo wrote:so far, all but one of the responses are interesting and thoughtful. Perhaps you'll remember your own comment next time your alliance posts a stupid comment about how they love carebear tears. But I doubt it .
nah, I don't mind being called out for trolling when I do it...I just miss Skippermonkey's posts on C&P. He's no longer in TEARS.
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Aggressive Nutmeg
131
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Posted - 2012.03.22 23:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Eve forums could best be described as carebears who are obsessed with calling other players carebears.
Seriously, you want fun? Go to lowsec. It's a delicious combination of carebears taking shortcuts and lone hunters trying to catch them or get fair 1v1 fights. At least that's my experience.
You can do everything in low sec for more reward, but you need to take precautions.
Risk-free attacks on newbies in high sec is probably the saddest and most carebearish thing you can do in this game. Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana. |
Dutarro
Matari Munitions The Fendahlian Collective
33
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Posted - 2012.03.22 23:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
kiki mo wrote:... What do you think the chances are that CCP will eliminate the dec-shield and dec-scraping?
Both dec shield and dec scrape will be irrelevant IMO ... the war dec system will be changed so radically that neither has any meaning. War decs as we know them may not even exist, replaced by some other system of non-consensual hisec PvP.
Quote:I seriously think that removing PvP from hisec is CCP's current goal. Allowing for a loophole like that would mean CCP actually would like people to fight in hisec...something they have not demonstrated recently.
No, CCP wants PvP in hisec, otherwise they wouldn't be working on new rules for "CONCORD-sanctioned conflict" ... CONCORD is irrelevant anywhere except hisec. They probably just want "better'" PvP, though of course "good" PvP vs. bad is a matter of opinion.
IMO an example of "good" hisec PvP is Hulkageddon. Annoying as it is (at first) for us bargeoholics, the outcome is actually positive in a certain sense; both miners and miner-killers evolve their tactics, work on new strategies, and are actively engaged in the conflict. Each side is figuring out how to work CONCORD, tweak their ship stats to gank faster or tank better, and generally play the game more and in greater depth.
An example of "bad" hisec PvP is the usual random war dec. Dec comes in from out of the blue, maybe with ransom demand, maybe not. Defender docks up and gets bored, or occasionally puts together a PvP-ish blob, in which case attacker docks up or plays station games. Add in some neutral RR to make it doubly un-fun. Attacker picks off a couple careless mission runners, newbie miners or haulers at a trade hub, but otherwise there is no real fighting, just a lot of waiting for each other to log on, log off, dock and undock *yawn*. Not all war decs go that way; there is the rare hisec war that actually becomes interesting with fleet battles, etc., but most are hopelessly lame on both sides.
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Jokus Balim
Capital Destruction
1
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Posted - 2012.03.22 23:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
If I understand the changes correctly, I'm totally anxious that they come into game ASAP.
I don't have to search for cans anymore to get aggressed to someone, I can just grap ANY can and everyone can get into a fight with me (-> suspect flag). Or even better, I just start to shoot someone. Chances for a response are so much higher, when your slugs are already tearing holes into the hull (there was a slide in the show that had shooting people in the suspect category and only killing gave Concord response).
And then EVERYONE can come and defend the poor sod that you are harrassing. And now get into a fast ship and know how to drag potential incoming hordes of carebears apart and kill them one by one, cause they have absolutely no idea how a coordinated response should look like.
Or even better: get someone with pvp practice into the belt for a good fight!
These changes sound pretty much like the advent of belt piracy in highsec. |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2
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Posted - 2012.03.23 00:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
The only real concern I had was losing sec status if you kill someone while being flagged as a suspect. This means that if you flip someone's can and people come to kill you, but you successfully defend yourself, you start hemorrhaging sec status. I'm all for turning red to all of eve, but I think getting sec penalized for being successful at it is a bit lame. Judging from the responses to several questions, however, it seems that Greyscale hasn't put any real thought into this use-case. |
Hesser Mech
El Dorado INC
14
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Posted - 2012.03.23 00:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
I would think high sec pvpers would actually like this. Sounds to me like it could create far more pvp than it would actually eliminate. If you flip a can and anyone can shot at you then there is a pretty high chance someone takes you up on it instead of sifting through countless miners to find one stupid enough to fall for it.
The problem is that the ones that are not in favor of this aren't really pvpers. They just like the ability to kill someone without any risk of getting popped themselves. You guys always ask for more risk in high sec. Here it is and now you don't like it since it wouldn't be just one way risk anymore. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1343
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Posted - 2012.03.23 00:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Well to be honest....
One of my biggest peeves around here is when someone "griefs" somebody and then acts like they didn't do anything wrong. This is why I have more respect for Goons, Skunkworks, Bricksquad, and a few others. These are people who say outright how they want to poke your eye out and pee in the socket (in game of course). I remember one fellow who would say "I log in only to blow your ship up and kill you, because that's how I play".
But all those years of pretending that it's "all about PVP", "This is EvE, it's a PVP Game! Go back to WOW", and "it's a sandbox people can do what they want" finally sunk in.
And so, it would also appear that CCP is planning on making more opportunities for PVP, which so many say is what the game is all about. Every time somebody defends some kind of aggression activity, the discussion was based on "wanting PVP" and how the game is going to the dogs because "the carebears are afraid to PVP".
So why, oh why, would anybody in C&P have any reason to complain?
Is this not what you wanted?
Or perhaps the accusation of "wanting easy ganks" is true?
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1343
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Posted - 2012.03.23 00:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jokus Balim wrote:If I understand the changes correctly, I'm totally anxious that they come into game ASAP.
I don't have to search for cans anymore to get aggressed to someone, I can just grap ANY can and everyone can get into a fight with me (-> suspect flag). Or even better, I just start to shoot someone. Chances for a response are so much higher, when your slugs are already tearing holes into the hull (there was a slide in the show that had shooting people in the suspect category and only killing gave Concord response).
And then EVERYONE can come and defend the poor sod that you are harrassing. And now get into a fast ship and know how to drag potential incoming hordes of carebears apart and kill them one by one, cause they have absolutely no idea how a coordinated response should look like.
Or even better: get someone with pvp practice into the belt for a good fight!
These changes sound pretty much like the advent of belt piracy in highsec.
I think if such a mosh pit were to erupt, say at Jita 4-4, a good time will be had by all.
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SC0T1SH WARRIOR
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
86
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Posted - 2012.03.23 00:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Warp to a belt/mission and canflip/loot = fishing for idiots who shoot you
New mechanic is warp to a belt/mission and canflip/loot = fishing for idiots with a supermultifishingrod
I see no problem. Dont mind me, -ájust touching your stuff. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
384
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Posted - 2012.03.23 00:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
Like my glorious leader previously said, the only problem is that greyscale indicated that you will lose sec status for destroying ships while flagged as a suspect. So a suspect defending himself from attack will lose sec status, which would pretty much end all highsec PVP that isn't wars or suicide ganking which is probably not the desired effect.
It might have just been a miscommunication and CCP Greyscale may have meant that destroying a ship that is not attacking you while flagged as a suspect causes a sec status drop, which would be much more reasonable. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
179
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Posted - 2012.03.23 01:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
kiki mo wrote: All of the above seems fine...right? The twist on this; at least as far as I've been led to believe is that
- Killing somebody, while you are a 'suspect' incurs a sec status hit (even if they shoot at you first) up to -5 - Killing somebody, who is +5, while you are a 'suspect' incurs a sec status hit up to -10
Yes this is the part that really looks like they're pushing High Sec PvPers out of High Sec. Which would be fine if they also pushed lucrative PvE out of High Sec as well, but no sign of that happening yet. I'm still waiting for the complete story before final judgement, we haven't seen the Wardec changes yet.
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Drew Solaert
University of Caille Gallente Federation
95
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Posted - 2012.03.23 01:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
All I'm hearing is bitter "Pro PvPer's" loosing their RR For every player ship that blows up, the wheels of the economy turn slightly faster. -áDo your bit today. -áGo out and PEW.
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Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
179
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Posted - 2012.03.23 01:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Drew Solaert wrote:All I'm hearing is bitter "Pro PvPer's" loosing their RR
You should go to the doctor then and get your ears checked, as that's one part of the changes to Crimewatch that I've seen most people happy with.
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Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2
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Posted - 2012.03.23 01:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
Drew Solaert wrote:All I'm hearing is bitter "Pro PvPer's" loosing their RR
What's funny is that if any of the people using RR are even remotely clever, they've already come up with several ways to circumvent these changes, which will have little to no impact on the amount of RR used in HS PVP. Everyone who's heralding this as the end of RR in HS is naive, and will have to learn how to actually counter it in the game, rather than just the forums.
Personally, I find the RR changes both hilarious and welcome. They're clearly token changes and will only hurt people who are inept and have no business PVPing, let alone doing so while running multiple accounts.
Also, grow a pair and post with your main. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
384
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Posted - 2012.03.23 01:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
Xorv wrote:kiki mo wrote: All of the above seems fine...right? The twist on this; at least as far as I've been led to believe is that
- Killing somebody, while you are a 'suspect' incurs a sec status hit (even if they shoot at you first) up to -5 - Killing somebody, who is +5, while you are a 'suspect' incurs a sec status hit up to -10
Yes this is the part that really looks like they're pushing High Sec PvPers out of High Sec. Which would be fine if they also pushed lucrative PvE out of High Sec as well, but no sign of that happening yet. I'm still waiting for the complete story before final judgement, we haven't seen the Wardec changes yet. The thing is you can't push people out of highsec, PVPers or otherwise. If you make it prohibitively difficult to engage in PVP in highsec the people whose entire playstyle is built around killing things in highsec will just quit and go and play another game. At that point the nullsec people who constantly advocate for changes that would make highsec PVP more difficult now, will whine that highsec is too safe and that no PVP happens there. |
Ohh Yeah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
9
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Posted - 2012.03.23 01:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
This is going to own.
Now all I have to do is canflip my alt and I suddenly am flagged to everyone in EVE.
That is ******* amazing. The number of fights a high-sec PvPer can get all over high-sec now is amazing. |
Ash Stewart
The Tenori Tigers Un.Bound
3
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Posted - 2012.03.23 01:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Seriously, your alliance should consider changing its name to Self Tear Extraction and Reclamation Services.
Why is it that high sec grief players, gankers (preying on the weak) are so afraid of consequences to their actions?
You spout all types of rhetoric (risk, u not safe!, GBWOW), but as soon as some risk to your riskless profession is talked about you flood the forums with tears.
Spoken like a true carebear.
I play eve for the realism. I play eve for the thrill, for the risk of losing my assets and the addrenaline rush of coming off the victor in some cases.
The minute high sec becomes a carebear playground WITH NO POSSIBILITY of risk of loss, is the minute eve will begin to die (I dont play any other mmo because eve is unique. I fear for the future).
That is all.
By the way, I roam null and low alot as well as high. .................It's the eye of the tiger, it's the thrill of the fight Risin' up to the challenge of our rival And the last known survivor stalks his prey in the night And he's watchin' us all with the eye of the tiger............... |
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