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EVE Nostalgia Issues: What can we do?

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Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.08.19 06:24:00 - [1] Every once every six months or so when i'm excessively overtired and playing eve late with my corpmates, we get to talking about the "good old times." Now, everyone has different "good old times" depending on when they started and when they started paying attention. Mine were at the tail end of 2004 and the beginning of 2005, but of course since all of 2005 and even 2006 are so long ago, they are all sort of "good old times" for me in some sorta respect. Anyway, we generally get to talking about what we saw changed and what we'd like to see come back. Then afterwards I decide in my incredible wisdom to voice these ideas and hopes to the EVE General Discussion Forum, which is notoriously known for not caring or caring just enough to flame my dreams till I cry into my pillow when I finally decide to log off eve and go to bed. Besides the chat about when "battleships were the end-all (omg i want one)," we discussed Warp To Zero. Being old pirates, we didn't really like this change, but I still hated the excessive time it took to get anywhere. Yeah, the lack of warp to zero made the EVE cluster into a bigger place where going across the stars actually meant something, but it seemed like a built-in time waster. So keep the warp to 0 for gates, but why did they ever put it in for stations?!? If you have a home station, you can easily enough make a bookmark, but having warp to zero for every station everywhere basically makes an easy safe haven for every threatened pilot. It turned wars from the exhilarating chase from gates to planets and belts trying to lose people, to a "watch them warp to a station and dock for three hours" event. I personally think it really hurt a lot of the excitment in this game. Sorry careb... industrialists, it's too easy and boring right now. I get off track pretty easily and rant a little too long in most cases (my corpmates have other names for it), but i only have one other (major) nostalgic problem with EVE now, and probably like my first issue, it's already been brought up before. It's low sec space, and I don't have a solution to it. I don't think there is a simple and single solution to it. It's dead, and only full of "pirates" who are basically pvp'ers looking to "pirate" other "pirates." Pirating isn't what it used to be, low sec offers too little. Nobody lives there but "pirates" and the occaisional mission runner or POS caretaker, and those are few and far between. Back in the day (my day, maybe not yours), missions, belt rats, plexes, and ore were lucrative so people had a reason to go there. I really wish i actually saw someone in low sec, that actually lived there for a reason other than killing people. Bring back some of the old gamestyle that made eve a little more exhilarating. There I'm done! I know half of you didn't read it, the other half hardly skimmed it, and all of you don't care, or at least care enough to ... do something about it... other than posting on the forums once every six months. Either way, I love EVE still, and that's basically the reason why I want to make it even better. That and the good oulde times.
Brigsby5987 Caldari 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2008.08.19 06:32:00 - [2] Originally by: Nerogk Shorn Every once every six months or so when i'm excessively overtired and playing eve late with my corpmates, we get to talking about the "good old times." Now, everyone has different "good old times" depending on when they started and when they started paying attention. Mine were at the tail end of 2004 and the beginning of 2005, but of course since all of 2005 and even 2006 are so long ago, they are all sort of "good old times" for me in some sorta respect. Anyway, we generally get to talking about what we saw changed and what we'd like to see come back. Then afterwards I decide in my incredible wisdom to voice these ideas and hopes to the EVE General Discussion Forum, which is notoriously known for not caring or caring just enough to flame my dreams till I cry into my pillow when I finally decide to log off eve and go to bed. Besides the chat about when "battleships were the end-all (omg i want one)," we discussed Warp To Zero. Being old pirates, we didn't really like this change, but I still hated the excessive time it took to get anywhere. Yeah, the lack of warp to zero made the EVE cluster into a bigger place where going across the stars actually meant something, but it seemed like a built-in time waster. So keep the warp to 0 for gates, but why did they ever put it in for stations?!? If you have a home station, you can easily enough make a bookmark, but having warp to zero for every station everywhere basically makes an easy safe haven for every threatened pilot. It turned wars from the exhilarating chase from gates to planets and belts trying to lose people, to a "watch them warp to a station and dock for three hours" event. I personally think it really hurt a lot of the excitment in this game. Sorry careb... industrialists, it's too easy and boring right now. I get off track pretty easily and rant a little too long in most cases (my corpmates have other names for it), but i only have one other (major) nostalgic problem with EVE now, and probably like my first issue, it's already been brought up before. It's low sec space, and I don't have a solution to it. I don't think there is a simple and single solution to it. It's dead, and only full of "pirates" who are basically pvp'ers looking to "pirate" other "pirates." Pirating isn't what it used to be, low sec offers too little. Nobody lives there but "pirates" and the occaisional mission runner or POS caretaker, and those are few and far between. Back in the day (my day, maybe not yours), missions, belt rats, plexes, and ore were lucrative so people had a reason to go there. I really wish i actually saw someone in low sec, that actually lived there for a reason other than killing people. Bring back some of the old gamestyle that made eve a little more exhilarating. There I'm done! I know half of you didn't read it, the other half hardly skimmed it, and all of you don't care, or at least care enough to ... do something about it... other than posting on the forums once every six months. Either way, I love EVE still, and that's basically the reason why I want to make it even better. That and the good oulde times. Simple fixes: 1. Make it almost twice as valuable to run missions in low sec as it is in high sec, with better loot drops. 2. Make it so that war dec system isnt pay to grief but does in fact have objectives, also make it so that theres a ransom system built in specifically for the war dec system ONLY. that prevents griefing after ransom is paid. 3. make it so that warp to 0 only works for gates, everything else warps you at a random range from 5-15km, or 10km default I tell you what actually makes me nostalgic. Remember the old UI that had all the information for you ship with the mods in a circular deal inside where your heat indicators are now. Yeah.... and the damage effects from beta were sweet too. Still waiting on those to make it in game.
Gonada Gallente R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.08.19 06:34:00 - [3] 2003 char here, and um, eve wasnt so shit hot back then i hate to break it to ya, eve though has been etting better with more options every year since then problem is with the people that play the game imho :)
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.08.19 06:39:00 - [4] Originally by: Gonada 2003 char here, and um, eve wasnt so shit hot back then i hate to break it to ya, eve though has been etting better with more options every year since then problem is with the people that play the game imho :) I'm not saying that EVE as a whole was better back then, I am just nostalgic at the issues I brought up, because I thought those two parts of EVE that aren't there anymore made the game better. Wow that was one sentence. hmmm...
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.08.19 06:48:00 - [5] Nerf nostalgia.
Ava Baby Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.19 06:55:00 - [6] Like I tell the Hawaiians that whine about their land being "taken" from them.... Get over it, move on, and get a job.
Jim Raynor Caldari Shinra	Posted - 2008.08.19 07:26:00 - [7] I do miss 2003 very much at times. The game was very different then. I like EVE now just fine and all but 2003, seems such a long time ago, it was good times.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.19 07:26:00 - [8] You can't beat nostalgia. No matter what you do, the past seems to always be a little bit better. And the older you get, the more you want to return to 'the good old days', and the more resistant you become to any type of change, whether it's good or not. You don't want new, because you've convinced yourself that the old ways were the better days. You can see the same in other MMO's, too. The SWG guys complaining that life was better pre-NGE, or pre-CU. They intentionally forget about the bugs and lack of content, because the fixes and added content that had come out since the change were 'accepted', while the overhaul to gameplay was never. So what they really remember is parts of the old game mixed with parts of the new game. My fondness for the 'good old times' in EvE was my first six months, when the corp I was in moved into losec, had an awful fight with a merc corp, then finally stepped out into nulsec. I happily remember and glorify the feeling of patrolling nulsec gates and defending against pirate groups. But if I'm honest, I also remember the hatred against stabs and fricking nano-battleships. And the utter boredom of standing system watch, to protect miners and convoys. If your honest with yourself, you'll see that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Suicide and griefer activities, forum whiners, even mega-corp politics. They may change the scale of things (like the idea that you can see more than one titan in a system still bothers me), or the exact way they go about it, but it's still the same old rigamarole.
Ethidium Bromide ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.19 07:38:00 - [9] in 2003... i didn't know how to fly ships straight forward i didn't know you could change crystals in space i thought low sec was hell and 0.0 the 7th level of hell battleships were the uber thing to have the game was really unbalanced torpedos were more fun there were still mines that could get you wtfbbqconcordokkened any time of the day in 2008 i still don't know how to fly most ships straight forward i know how to change crysals in space but don't bother to i live in low sec and think that 0.0 is overpopulated to make a cut without moonmining or officer farming titans are too common the game is nerfed and a little more balanced torpedos are fun again there are no more mines the game ev(e)olved, some players did so too, others never will and yes, pls double LP and rewards for low sec missions! kthxbye
Raymond Sterns Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.08.19 07:44:00 - [10] I liked it back when there were very few caps, no nanos, and people in low sec.

Dr Fighter	Posted - 2008.08.19 07:45:00 - [11] erm, missons are worth double in low sec but if you wanna double that double be my guest make missions in high sec half as much while your at it! (and remove high sec lvl 4s all together!) /me remembers killing the infamous battleship pirate Tank CEO with a small gang once upon a time. I was so buzzed, like drinking 10,000 espressos in 30 seconds!
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.08.19 08:19:00 - [12] I want my 15 drones back!
Misanth The Forsakened Companions Pure.	Posted - 2008.08.19 08:31:00 - [13] I think the HUD looks worse and worse all the time. The disaster hit last year around when we got thermodynamics implemented. Those small green lights still **** me off and the ugly background on the velocity etc is just.. making me want to cry. My first character was created a bit before this, 2005, I never got to see the HUD from 03-04 but I've seen screenshots, and it makes me wonder what they hell they put in the one that was in the game when I started for even.. ..in that regard, the HUD, EVE is really developing backwards.
Wil Smithx Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.08.19 08:43:00 - [14] Damn 2003 was the best time... the playerbase was much better then, a lot more older players and only like 4k people on server, meant you could find your own little systems away from everything. And you never knew what you might see... tripple MWD'ing battleships, torp kestrel doom squads, drones automaticly shooting missiles down (cos you were screwed if they started hitting you with torps lol), 8 heavy drone glass cannon thoraxs that could melt other cruisers before they could lock target. Hell damage tanking in general existed. Then again so did getting killed before you loaded system (ALOT). 8 heat sinked geddons oh and lol, mining apocs, lots of mining apocs... Out of all the things I miss the most, webbing torps and watching them chase pods is what I miss the most...
Raymond Sterns Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.08.19 09:16:00 - [15] Originally by: Wil Smithx Damn 2003 was the best time... the playerbase was much better then, a lot more older players and only like 4k people on server, meant you could find your own little systems away from everything. And you never knew what you might see... tripple MWD'ing battleships, torp kestrel doom squads, drones automaticly shooting missiles down (cos you were screwed if they started hitting you with torps lol), 8 heavy drone glass cannon thoraxs that could melt other cruisers before they could lock target. Hell damage tanking in general existed. Then again so did getting killed before you loaded system (ALOT). 8 heat sinked geddons oh and lol, mining apocs, lots of mining apocs... Out of all the things I miss the most, webbing torps and watching them chase pods is what I miss the most... Haha, must have been pretty interesting back then. I'm more from before and after RMR. When you could still find people wandering lowsec alone or in a very small group.
Odda Gallente Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.19 09:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Wil Smithx Damn 2003 was the best time... the playerbase was much better then, a lot more older players and only like 4k people on server, meant you could find your own little systems away from everything. And you never knew what you might see... tripple MWD'ing battleships, torp kestrel doom squads, drones automaticly shooting missiles down (cos you were screwed if they started hitting you with torps lol), 8 heavy drone glass cannon thoraxs that could melt other cruisers before they could lock target. Hell damage tanking in general existed. Then again so did getting killed before you loaded system (ALOT). 8 heat sinked geddons oh and lol, mining apocs, lots of mining apocs... Out of all the things I miss the most, webbing torps and watching them chase pods is what I miss the most... ooo the good old days! without all the nerf's! I stil remember my Thorax of doom
Marie Trudeau Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.19 11:18:00 - [17] Oh yes the mining Apocs! Multiple MWDs on ships. Highway systems. Yulai as the center of the universe.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2008.08.19 12:23:00 - [18] The good old days wasn't that good
Larg Kellein Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.19 12:30:00 - [19] Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.08.19 12:54:00 - [20] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 19/08/2008 12:55:37 I've only been in since mid-2006 but even what I consider the olden days were actually pretty bad compared to Empyrean Age. (edit: didn't realize I was rambling until I actually posted this.) WTZ for the gates was an important and necessary change IMO. Anyone without the skills for a MWD had no chance. I'm probably on a hundred different killmails from my first few weeks in-game for this reason alone (I wanted to mine in Low Sec, so sue me.) Even after getting a MWD you still had to put on a travel fit in the lows every time you went through Low Sec unless you had a good tank. All in all it was really unbalanced against low-SP players. Eve isn't fair of course, but if Low Sec developed a reputation as an inescapable deathtrap it would have "died" just as surely as it has "died", if only for those different reasons. Which brings me to my other point: Low Sec needs a boost. Everyone knows it. Personally I'm still in favor of moving most of the low-end ore out to Low Sec and drastically reducing its quantity in 0.5+. This seems like it would be much more useful than moving all the good missions out there. Moving missions primarily affects mission runners, but moving ore affects all kinds of people. Industrialists, miners, manufactures, traders, macro miners, and so forth. Every asteroid belt in the game needs unpredictable NPC spawns as well, to make ratting not only less tedious but potentially more challenging at every level. More EWar, tougher opponents, drone-using NPCs, highly variable numbers in the spawn, highly variable bounty amounts relative to system sec. Mix it all up for every new spawn generated, especially in lower security areas, and you might just find that ratting in places other than nullsec becomes fun for older players.

Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.08.21 06:47:00 - [21] First off, thanks for all the responses gents, it's awesome to hear some really old experiences. Secondly, I'm not saying that the old days were better than today, i'm only saying that a few parts of the old days are really missed cause those parts are probably better today. Some can't be changed, others can. I think Warp to Zero for stations was a mistake, cause it really makes it too easy to hide, and station bookmarks aren't nearly as bad as gate bookmarks in terms of the effect on lag and quantity needed or made. Another thing I remembered, was Minmatar. I remember totally fearing old Minmatar BS pilots cause if they had skills, they could really be awesome. They used to be the EVE on Nightmare difficulty, but if you trained them up they'd be incredible. Now all the races seem more like hardly different flavors of bland. They tried to balance, but it seemed that they made the races almost identical. Yeah they still use different weapons, but paint and names don't make the weapon. They do almost the same thing. They also made the ships and everything about the races more similar to keep it "balanced." A lot of games have near perfect balance with completely different races (though they might not be as complicated as EVE). BTW Minmatar battleships are kinda lame now no matter how much sp you put into them. Tempest is outclassed by the Maelstrom it seems, though it's only an opinion based on what I used to see in the past. Typhoon is better though prolly. I'll try and come up with some more sweet stuff from the past.
Quincunx Minmatar Subspace Anomaly	Posted - 2008.08.21 13:24:00 - [22] Whil I agree that WTZ on stations might be annoying for hardcore pvp'ers, I'm glad it exists. Traveling before WTZ could be a really tedious undertaking, and that built in timesink was one of the reasons (but not the only) I have quit EVE for a while. Not being bothered by that timesink any longer, I don't even think about traveling and flying back and forth anymore, which is a good thing, since you can concentrate on more fun aspects of the game.
Valan The Fated	Posted - 2008.08.21 13:41:00 - [23] The good old days is about the player base not about the game play.
Bean Doodle Aliastra	Posted - 2008.08.21 13:41:00 - [24] I didn't read the thread, but a quick sure fire way to bring back 'the good ol days' is to f**king LET US USE THE OLD FONT GADDAMNIT!!!!!
Face Palmer Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.08.21 13:45:00 - [25] Nostalgia was better in the good old days.
Major PewPew The Dark Horses	Posted - 2008.08.21 13:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Davina Braben Nerf nostalgia.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2008.08.21 14:45:00 - [27] Originally by: Nerogk Shorn Originally by: Gonada 2003 char here, and um, eve wasnt so shit hot back then i hate to break it to ya, eve though has been etting better with more options every year since then problem is with the people that play the game imho :) I'm not saying that EVE as a whole was better back then, I am just nostalgic at the issues I brought up, because I thought those two parts of EVE that aren't there anymore made the game better. Wow that was one sentence. hmmm... LOL! yeah, remember when you could login for about an entire half hour before the server would kick 50% of the playerbase out and CCP was trying to say it was our computers. Mission running didnt even work. Like I said in the other thread, lowsec needs an economic exclusivity something that is vital to the eve economy. Off the top of my head, the most valuable resource in lowsec is "Pirates". But I dont see any way to create an npc bounty system for Pirates with out it being heavily exploited by their pirate buddies. There needs to be some type of demand exclusive to low sec that would draw hisec and corp/alliance to not only travel in there, but hang out down there...have players want to setup their base operations in lowsec stations and bring traders and crafters and inventors and the whole shot.
Shadow Sapphire	Posted - 2008.08.21 15:22:00 - [28] Edited by: Shadow Sapphire on 21/08/2008 15:24:41 As timed passed the community grew & CCP grew . Unfortunately the bad things grew exponentially . Today we have many tools developed by the community that make our life easier from EFT , Jump Planer to EVE MEEP all this tools where developed by someone whit the skills that had our support . From the sloppy videos of 2003 to masterpieces like This is EVE & Tortuga - Lacimosa . Unfortunately the number of forum trolls , no brainers , scammers and other things that tend to annoy us has also grew . EX : you'll find at least 2 ppl posting nonsense every topic hoping that someone will notice them and of course we have the goons & the likes of them that contribute whit nothing , zero & nada . Nostalgia ... as the game gets bigger it's harder & harder to see the entire world of EVE in one eye shot . Maybe we miss the old days because the negative parts where harder to see in those days simply due to the fact that the world was smaller . It's not to bad to see a piece of junk in a handful of seeds , we can't all be perfect but a handful of junk into a buket of seeds is annoying to look at , especially if the junk bonds together in big chunks and tries to make you like it's fetid smell . When i miss the old times i go to my birth system , i purge the s****whit a hac then go mining in my rookie ship for some minutes . Then i return whit renewed forces to my friends .
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.08.22 05:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Shadow Sapphire Edited by: Shadow Sapphire on 21/08/2008 15:24:41 As timed passed the community grew & CCP grew . Unfortunately the bad things grew exponentially . Today we have many tools developed by the community that make our life easier from EFT , Jump Planer to EVE MEEP all this tools where developed by someone whit the skills that had our support . From the sloppy videos of 2003 to masterpieces like This is EVE & Tortuga - Lacimosa . Unfortunately the number of forum trolls , no brainers , scammers and other things that tend to annoy us has also grew . EX : you'll find at least 2 ppl posting nonsense every topic hoping that someone will notice them and of course we have the goons & the likes of them that contribute whit nothing , zero & nada . Nostalgia ... as the game gets bigger it's harder & harder to see the entire world of EVE in one eye shot . Maybe we miss the old days because the negative parts where harder to see in those days simply due to the fact that the world was smaller . It's not to bad to see a piece of junk in a handful of seeds , we can't all be perfect but a handful of junk into a buket of seeds is annoying to look at , especially if the junk bonds together in big chunks and tries to make you like it's fetid smell . When i miss the old times i go to my birth system , i purge the s**whit a hac then go mining in my rookie ship for some minutes . Then i return whit renewed forces to my friends . Yeah man, but sometimes it feels like the EVE gods put in a bunch of fake seeds to cover up the junk in the bucket. Maybe those seeds seem real enough to the people not accostomed to seeing seeds, but the older folk know they will never grow. The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S**

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