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Author	Topic
Romulus Maximus Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.20 18:01:00 - [61] Im not ignorant in the slightest. Im well aware of how Eve works, but thx for the update. You seem to ignore the fact that ive already said shooting POS isnt fun. If you think that all things non fun should be removed, good for you. I dotn think that just because something isnt fun, should mean it is removed. In my opinion, I think that its the way POS are utilised that is the problem. Having to defend or assault hundreads of POS is boring. The attackers certainly didnt anchor the POS. So ppl shouldnt whine when they have to be defended. As i said, CCP should change the way POS / Sov etc is run. By all means keep POS, but change the way there used, so there isnt massive numbers. We all know POS warfare sucks. We'd all love for roaming to be like it used to be. And fleet fights to be doable, but there not. And things will never be the way they were. All we can hope for is some change, that makes things better than they currently are.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.20 18:10:00 - [62] Originally by: Romulus Maximus You seem to ignore the fact that ive already said shooting POS isnt fun. If you think that all things non fun should be removed, good for you. I dotn think that just because something isnt fun, should mean it is removed. You actually implied (above) that you do know people who enjoy POS warfare.... and yes, anything that's so unfun as to cause 5-10% attrition rates when players go through it should probably be removed from the game or totally revamped. Especially if there really isn't any other option for someone interested in PVP. -Liang
Baron Primus	Posted - 2008.08.20 18:11:00 - [63] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Romulus Maximus You seem to ignore the fact that ive already said shooting POS isnt fun. If you think that all things non fun should be removed, good for you. I dotn think that just because something isnt fun, should mean it is removed. You actually implied (above) that you do know people who enjoy POS warfare.... and yes, anything that's so unfun as to cause 5-10% attrition rates when players go through it should probably be removed from the game or totally revamped. Especially if there really isn't any other option for someone interested in PVP. -Liang I would like to loot these graveyards.
Relicc Caldari House InVisus	Posted - 2008.08.20 18:26:00 - [64] Originally by: Liang Nuren Hats off to Trouts for entertaining me with awesome music and booze last time I had to do this shit. -Liang Seconded . Those were some bad nights, which would have been alot worse without those songs to keep me awake.
Altai Saker Amarr Secret Service	Posted - 2008.08.20 18:26:00 - [65] I actually agree with rom. The number of POSes in a constellation should be limited, not have ever many moons there is in the constellation. This would make it easier on both sides in one way or another.
Noisrevbus Caldari Breams Gone Wild	Posted - 2008.08.20 18:40:00 - [66] Thumbs up for a good thread, or a discussion that evolved into one. Personally, i belive the plight of Caps (drops), POS-wars and Fleet-lag are just symptoms of another underlying problem. See, EVE is an MMO game and to that a numbers game, which is fine in itself (i started playing EVE because of it). By calling it a numbers game i refer to the fact that alot of things in this game can be overcome by numbers of players, and that there is a place for everyone to participate. The problem is that this growth is in no way controlled. Numbers impact on a game is usually balanced by the effective organization of those numbers. The problem with EVE is that it today have such a large player base and so many effective tools for organization that this balance have been thrown off in comparison to what is healthy for the gameworld (for the ecosystem of the community so to speak) and what the server can keep up. Having 0.0 and territorial disputes is an essential part of the game, Caps as part of 0.0 and lowsec life as well, sadly the uncontrolled growth and how that play into the ingame politics stifle much of the life in 0.0. See, most of the trends we see in EVE can be seen - and have been seen - in many other games both past and present. The trends we have seen the past few years with escalating size of territories, growing alliances and even more importantly: coalitions. Even the recent trends of people getting out of 0.0 and saying they don't like POS ownership and Capitals - and just want the pew (while i share those feelings at times, i also know that such a mentality has buried many a games). Instead, i would love to see some life being blown back into 0.0 by CCP adding some restrictions that ultimately will bring about choice and a more vivid world. Instead of waiting for the next "Multimegasuper-corporation-management, allow you to recruit one additional gazillion of corporation members per skill level" perhaps CCP should take a step back and start trying to contain growth to smaller contingents, and make political organization more difficult for the players. If the average corporation was smaller, the average alliance had fewer corps and none could set half the universe blue many of the current problems with 0.0, caps, blobs and all those issues mentioned in this thread would probably begin to diminish. People will still seek collaboration outside of the confinement of the game, as we see current coalitions do. That is human nature, and when i first began playing MMO's 10 odd years ago that was the very definition of 'meta gaming' (not the warped meaning it has recieved here in EVE, with power-posting on forums and hacking voicecom servers). Meta gaming in that definition simply meant taking the gaming beyond the confinements of what the game could provide at the time (eg., creating external forums to organize a coalition that couldn't be harboured by the tools available ingame). People will still seek that, but when the game doesn't allow you to do that as easily you will begin to see poorly organized entities crumble quicker, and there will be far more players venturing out to 0.0 to compete when you don't have to raise a 1000-man strong alliance to do so (only to be ripped apart by a 5000-man coalition in 300 vs. 300 man fleet fights breaking nodes). Simple things such as lowering corporation sizes and alliance sizes (even fleet sizes), or restricting territorial ownership (numbers of cyno jammers you can field, POS you can erect etc) and means of diplomacy (number of entities you can set blue) to force this meta-game micromanagement to take place earlier in alliance evolution can have a great impact on the game and put alot of things down to (for CCP-) managable levels again - where a carrier is a carrier, and a POS is a POS.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.20 20:24:00 - [67] Originally by: Romulus Maximus That doesnt mean it should be removed from game. Noone enjoyed capping stations (except maybe dmZ). But it was what had to be done. Sadly, this isnt a game where everything is fun. Not if you want to play it to its fullest. I'm going to comment on this one singular part of your post because it speaks VOLUMES about Eve in a lot of ways. There are parts of Eve that just plain are NOT fun. Fleet combat sucks hard. POS seiges suck harder. PVE Sucks almost as hard as the both of them. Does some small minority enjoy these aspects? Yes - but some people enjoy filling in databases and filing TPS reports. Eve is a game. Realism and arguments thereof can go to hell. Additional game mechanics can take hike. What i'm interested in is having FUN - and I'd like to think everyone else is too. People **** whine and moan about ship balance, module balance, game mechanics and all that crap - fine, but as long as your having FUN these things are minor issues in the back of your mind. If a game is fun arguments regarding balance are more about the sporting nature of absurd, often incoherent internet debates. In Eve, people generally cease having fun when they are brought face to face with the realization that what they are doing as a player has absolutely NO impact on how well their character is doing in a game. Spent 20 hours repping a POS and it exploded anyway? Why the hell did you bother? Came to a fleet op and exploded? Why did you show up in the first place? Fired 240 heavy missiles at a vagabond and didn't score a hit? Why waste the time training that weapon? In Eve, death means something - one way or another it costs you as a player something very real, be it the time it will take to acquire the cash to replace your ship and modules or legitimate cash in real life converted into ISK to shore up the accounts (I'll assume for now we're talking GTC's and not buying ISK). Having a game that has parts that are decidedly not fun are that also punishes players for failure is not a recipe to have many long term players. In short - you as a player should NEVER accept something that is widely known to be boring, stupid or frustrating. The one thing you're buying with that subscription money is the chance to participate in a Game - presumably for entertainment. The moment you aren't having fun CCP has failed in their fundamental job - delivering an entertaining experience to the players.
Romulus Maximus Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.20 20:44:00 - [68] Originally by: Derek Sigres Interesting post I can see where your coming from. But id imagine a lot of us play the game not only for fun. But because we enjoy our friends / corp / alliance mates. I know personally, i stay because ive never played a game with such bonds to other players. I dont enjoy Eve they was i used to thats for sure. But i still enjoy it on the most part. It is what we make of it. I think there are also many differant types of players in Eve. Some have no desire to go to 0.0 and capture regions and wage war on other ppl. No one is forced to do anything in Eve, we all make our choices and we can stand by them, or cut and run of we dont like it. And this bit isnt aimed at you Derek. But i think some ppl arent cut out to perform the tasks you said and take it well. Some will adapt to missing the Vaga, others will whine. Some will accept that fleet fights incur losses, and they will sometime be one. Others will not like that they dont have enough control over the engagement terms. Some ppl can cope with POS ops, endless sieging, only to see them put up more towers. This game can be played many differant ways, on many differant levels. Not everyone is capable, nor do they want to play it in a particular way. A lot dont want to, or see the point in getting up early to a kill a POS or whatever. And there are those that are willing to do whatever is needed to get the job done. Its what makes Eve so great. This thread has kinda gone off topic lol. But a nice discussion none the less.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.20 21:19:00 - [69] Originally by: Romulus Maximus This game can be played many differant ways, on many differant levels. Not everyone is capable, nor do they want to play it in a particular way. A lot dont want to, or see the point in getting up early to a kill a POS or whatever. And there are those that are willing to do whatever is needed to get the job done. Its what makes Eve so great. I am one of those that will do what's necessary to get things done for my mates. FFS, do you think I enjoyed 6 weeks of POS repping for 8-12 hours/day? Or seiging POS's for 8 hours/day on my other character(s)? No dude, I didn't enjoy it... and nobody really did. We all paid CCP alot of money (collectively) over the course of the engagement to not have any fun at all. "To do what it takes", as you put it. And that's really the entire problem: Eve's 0.0 warfarecannot be played in so many different ways. There's only one way to play: POS/Fleet (BLOB) Warfare. And that is a 100% unfun way to ~~slave at work~~ play the game. And that's really where and why Eve is not Great. -Liang
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.08.20 21:21:00 - [70] The problem is not abotu capitals. It is about their mobility. Just remove jump capability from carrier, dreads and supercapitals. Make capitals move by gates as any other ship. Leave jump capability only for jump freighters and Black ops. Problem solved.

Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.20 21:36:00 - [71] Originally by: Etho Demerzel The problem is not abotu capitals. It is about their mobility. Just remove jump capability from carrier, dreads and supercapitals. Make capitals move by gates as any other ship. Leave jump capability only for jump freighters and Black ops. Problem solved. No the problem is the fact that the presence of POS', captials and the need to gain soverignty spawn a type of gameplay that seems to almost universally be seen as less than fun.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.08.20 22:47:00 - [72] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Etho Demerzel The problem is not abotu capitals. It is about their mobility. Just remove jump capability from carrier, dreads and supercapitals. Make capitals move by gates as any other ship. Leave jump capability only for jump freighters and Black ops. Problem solved. No the problem is the fact that the presence of POS', captials and the need to gain soverignty spawn a type of gameplay that seems to almost universally be seen as less than fun. Those are 2 different things. The OP is complaining about capital drops and the effect they have int he game. The sovereignty mechanisms are another thing completely. The people who play the sovereignty game do it because they choose to. Maybe some even like it, who knows. As boring as it may be you only do it if you want to hold territory. And lets be honest managing a 1000+ people alliance is more like a full time job than fun anyways. Now about Capital dropping, that is only possible because of their superior mobility. It is like being able to pop Aircraft carriers and Battleships out of thin air on the coast of a hostile power in our world. There must be a clear disadvantage in mobility or the biggest, more powerful ships make everything else completely obsolete. Why would you be careful to have a balanced gang and scout for enemies if at the slighest sign of trouble you can drop a titan in the field or a full flight of carriers? Take jump capabilities from those capitals and they can be scouted, countered and the game becomes at least a bit more about strategy than about numbers...
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2008.08.20 23:25:00 - [73] Originally by: Liang Nuren Removing Caps and POS warfare in general would make Eve such a better place... IMO. -Liang Me and my carrier agree with this statement.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.20 23:48:00 - [74] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Those are 2 different things. The OP is complaining about capital drops and the effect they have int he game. The sovereignty mechanisms are another thing completely. You miss the point I'm making. As ship numbers on each side of a battle increase your individual contribution as a player becomes less and less important. In a full scale fleet battle your presence and fitting will make absolutely zero difference in your fleet winning or losing, and more importantly you living or exploding. Capital ships are a problem because they take tremendous firepower to take down - leading to the blob/counter blob scenario that leads to unpleasant gaming scenarios. Capital ships are required BECAUSE of POS warfare - without capital ships POS warfare simply isn't possible. Soveriegnty reinforces the notion of POS warfare by ensuring you have to place and destroy POSes with regularity to maintain your hold on a contested section of space. Capital Ships in lowsec do little but unbalance the equation of small gang warfare. Yes a Moros can be killed but it's awfully hard to accomplish without a blob of battleships - and even then you have to be pretty good with bumping. Hotdropping motherships into a group of noobs partaking in faction warfare does little more than alienate the noobs on the receiving end of the ass kicking that's almost sure to follow.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.08.21 00:00:00 - [75] Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 21/08/2008 00:00:57 @Derek: And you are missing mine. I am all for taking POS warfare AND capitals from the game. But that simply won't happen. With or without POS warfare capitals are here to stay. If they are the simplest solution is to take from them the ability to appear anywhere they want. Then we would have the following situation. You want to goto low sec with a Moros? Fine, but be prepared because you will go in and out the slow and long way giving people plenty of time to run or gank you unless you have a very good plan.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.21 01:07:00 - [76] Wouldn;t really mind this tbh, other than the obvious HALT it would do to ship moving logistics.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.08.21 02:09:00 - [77] Morons. The problem has nothing to do with sovreignty warfare or capital ships. Blobs exist because the side that has the largest number of ships tends to win. Period. What's the difference between a 200 on 200 capital melee versus a 200 on 200 frigate furball? Nada. Its still crap because of lag load. It wouldn't matter if it was for POS bashing or not. Large fleets are a reality at any level when large scale objectives are on the line. If you want to whine about lag, be sure you pick the right target. Capitals are an easy strawman, and its far from what they deserve for what they bring to the table in terms of game diversity.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.08.21 02:10:00 - [78] Edited by: Janu Hull on 21/08/2008 02:11:41 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Romulus Maximus That doesnt mean it should be removed from game. Noone enjoyed capping stations (except maybe dmZ). But it was what had to be done. Sadly, this isnt a game where everything is fun. Not if you want to play it to its fullest. No dude, I'm trying to say that the game should be fun. POS's and POS warfare are not fun, and thus should be scrapped. Find Another Way. Quote: Noone made them move to 0.0 and setup POS. Its what they chose to do, or who they chose to join. If only everyone just up and quit because they couldnt win or didnt want to put the effort in. Would trim the fat so to speak. Ok, so this is the way Eve works (you seem to be rather ignorant): - Highsec bully (wardec miner corps) - Lowsec pirate (Antipies do not exist, sorry). No targets. - 0.0 alliance warfare. So then you're like... ok, I'll go join a good roaming PVP alliance and PVP every night.. it'll be awesome! And so you do this for some time. Then your alliance gets targeted by the Bloballition and fights go from 5v5 and 20v20 to 800v800+ for a few months on end. And you can't do anything else because you've got billions invested in roaming PVP ships in some station. So you and your mates put your all into it and manage to hold off hundreds or thousands of people per night... good ***ing job! But no, you don't get to do this by shooting* your enemy. Nope, you get to do this by repairing **ing POS's. In the end, people aren't leaving because of winning or losing - they're leaving because Eve has become a second job that you'd rather sleep through. Hell, doing the honey dos on the homefront is even more exciting than watching POS hitpoints creep up and down. No dude, POS's and POS warfare being ***ing boring and frustrating is what makes people leave. The same thing could be accomplished so much better* in some other way. Find Another Way. So just in case you missed "my point": POS WARFARE SUCKS. POS LOGISTICS SUCK. FIND ANOTHER WAY. -Liang Get Zoloft, it'll help cure those ADHD symptoms. I personally enjoy the empire building in this game. You're a complete ****ing moron to think what's fun for you works for everyone. Please dislodge your head from your ass and try again.
Gark32 Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.21 02:47:00 - [79] Originally by: Janu Hull Edited by: Janu Hull on 21/08/2008 02:11:41 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Romulus Maximus That doesnt mean it should be removed from game. Noone enjoyed capping stations (except maybe dmZ). But it was what had to be done. Sadly, this isnt a game where everything is fun. Not if you want to play it to its fullest. No dude, I'm trying to say that the game should be fun. POS's and POS warfare are not fun, and thus should be scrapped. Find Another Way. Quote: Noone made them move to 0.0 and setup POS. Its what they chose to do, or who they chose to join. If only everyone just up and quit because they couldnt win or didnt want to put the effort in. Would trim the fat so to speak. Ok, so this is the way Eve works (you seem to be rather ignorant): - Highsec bully (wardec miner corps) - Lowsec pirate (Antipies do not exist, sorry). No targets. - 0.0 alliance warfare. So then you're like... ok, I'll go join a good roaming PVP alliance and PVP every night.. it'll be awesome! And so you do this for some time. Then your alliance gets targeted by the Bloballition and fights go from 5v5 and 20v20 to 800v800+ for a few months on end. And you can't do anything else because you've got billions invested in roaming PVP ships in some station. So you and your mates put your all into it and manage to hold off hundreds or thousands of people per night... good ***ing job! But no, you don't get to do this by shooting* your enemy. Nope, you get to do this by repairing **ing POS's. In the end, people aren't leaving because of winning or losing - they're leaving because Eve has become a second job that you'd rather sleep through. Hell, doing the honey dos on the homefront is even more exciting than watching POS hitpoints creep up and down. No dude, POS's and POS warfare being ***ing boring and frustrating is what makes people leave. The same thing could be accomplished so much better* in some other way. Find Another Way. So just in case you missed "my point": POS WARFARE SUCKS. POS LOGISTICS SUCK. FIND ANOTHER WAY. -Liang Get Zoloft, it'll help cure those ADHD symptoms. I personally enjoy the empire building in this game. You're a complete ****ing moron to think what's fun for you works for everyone. Please dislodge your head from your ass and try again. i don't see where he sait that he doesn't like the empire building. he doesn't like where how everyone has to be the guy at the bottom, hauling bricks.
Zach Vogt	Posted - 2008.08.21 05:17:00 - [80] Edited by: Zach Vogt on 21/08/2008 05:17:33 To quote the Dev Blog: "WhatÆs more is that speed, alas, can only be countered properly with yet more speed, and so on in a dreadfully unidirectional tipping of the scales." This same sentence can really be applied to cap warfare. Now I'm not saying that I own X amount of capitals, or that I've been playing since beta, or that I've even FLOWN a cap ship, but it's kind of hard to miss, even to someone relatively new to the game. The only thing that can counter a capital fleet is more capitals. It creates the very tipping of the scales that CCP wants to avoid in the first place. There is, however, a few problems. The first of which is the fact that there's no easy solution. People worked hard to get their capital ships, they're expensive as hell. Taking capital ships away from players who have them is unfair. The second problem is that a lot of players don't view capital ships as a problem in the first place(and I obviously respect their opinions). Capital ships are, in theory, a good idea. You have 1 ship that is actually very powerful, but you need a support fleet to protect your billions of isk. However, capital ships (like everything else in Eve) are becoming rapidly more affordable. This takes the original idea of the capital class ship and tosses it out the window. Titans, especially, tip the scales completely to one side. Doomsday devices remove the need of a support fleet, plain and simple. When one super-weapon destroys everything except for other caps, it just isn't fair. The same thing happens when you have too many capitals together in one place. The biggest fleet of sub-cap ships wouldn't be able to dent them. There is a general solution to the problem as a whole, which would be to limit the number of capital ships an alliance can have in a system at one time. This will undoubtedly get flamed to the very depths of hell and back, and I can absolutely see why. Capital ships are needed at this point in Eve's life. Without cap ships (specifically dreadnoughts), destroying a POS becomes painfully tiresome. By removing capital ships, one would not be able to destroy POSs faster than they appear. Bigger ships are, at times, a valuable addition to the game. But other times, it seems as though CCP is just introducing these bigger ships too fast. Making them ludicrously expensive does not limit the capital ship population, because eventually somewhere in the EVE universe an alliance will be powerful enough economically to produce them in mass. That's just my opinion, and there will be people who will point out the fact that I've never flown a capital (therefore invalidating my post), but it won't change how I see cap warfare.

Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.08.21 05:36:00 - [81] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 21/08/2008 05:38:20 Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 21/08/2008 05:36:37 Originally by: Zach Vogt Edited by: Zach Vogt on 21/08/2008 05:17:33 To quote the Dev Blog: "WhatÆs more is that speed, alas, can only be countered properly with yet more speed, and so on in a dreadfully unidirectional tipping of the scales." This same sentence can really be applied to cap warfare. Now I'm not saying that I own X amount of capitals, or that I've been playing since beta, or that I've even FLOWN a cap ship, but it's kind of hard to miss, even to someone relatively new to the game. The only thing that can counter a capital fleet is more capitals. It creates the very tipping of the scales that CCP wants to avoid in the first place. No it can't. Nano ships: extremely powerful in everything from solo to 100-man fleets. Very little reason to ever bring anything OTHER than a nano ship in these fleets. Capital ships: only useful in fleet ops within a fixed/known area. Requires considerable non-capital support fleet, including a wide range of ships, to be anything other than suicide. There's a huge difference between 20x Vagabonds and 3x carriers, 5x interceptors, 5x Falcons, 7x anti-support HAC/BC. Quote: There is a general solution to the problem as a whole, which would be to limit the number of capital ships an alliance can have in a system at one time. This will undoubtedly get flamed to the very depths of hell and back, and I can absolutely see why. Flamed to hell for a good reason, but not the one you were thinking of. What's going to happen the moment this change is made? Band of Brothers Band of Sisters B4nd 0f Br0th3rz My Brother's Band Group Of Male Children Didn't We All Hate That Show Anyway? Yet Another Entirely Uncreative Titan Parking Spot Alliance Etc, etc, etc. Yep, that'll really reduce the number of capitals... Now, you COULD make it a limit on the number of capital ships, period. Won't it be fun trying to attack a system when the defenders have left all their capital pilots logged on 23/7 at a POS to fill up that limit?
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.21 05:38:00 - [82] Originally by: Zach Vogt Taking capital ships away from players who have them is unfair. The best answer I have there is that we should curb the production of new capital ships. Thus my suggestion of turning cap ship BPO's into multi run BPC's. Then the BPCs only drop in rare situations. This gives us (essentially) a limited input stream of capital ships and supercaps. -Liang
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.21 05:38:00 - [83] Capital ships are not used only to hotdrop targets in low sec. They are also important logistical tool so barring them from low sec would not be good idea. And it's not like you can't evade that hotdropped capital in your AF so I don't see a problem here.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.21 05:39:00 - [84] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Flamed to hell for a good reason, but not the one you were thinking of. What's going to happen the moment this change is made? Band of Brothers Band of Sisters B4nd 0f Br0th3rz My Brother's Band Group Of Male Children Didn't We All Hate That Show Anyway? Yet Another Entirely Uncreative Titan Parking Spot Alliance Etc, etc, etc. Yep, that'll really reduce the number of capitals... Now, you COULD make it a limit on the number of capital ships, period. Won't it be fun trying to attack a system when the defenders have left all their capital pilots logged on 23/7 at a POS to fill up that limit? Those are some mighty fine points Merin. -Liang
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.08.21 05:40:00 - [85] Or better plan: people quit whining about capitals. The solution is to provide worthwhile small-scale objectives and reduce the focus on static POS warfare and alarm-clock capital fights. Capitals really aren't used that much outside of POS warfare, so all I see is a lot of whining about nothing.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.21 05:43:00 - [86] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Or better plan: people quit whining about capitals. The solution is to provide worthwhile small-scale objectives and reduce the focus on static POS warfare and alarm-clock capital fights. Capitals really aren't used that much outside of POS warfare, so all I see is a lot of whining about nothing. <-- whining about POS warfare in general. As long as POS warfare is the key to controlling stations, there will be alarm clock ops and months on end of POS repping. -Liang
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.08.21 05:57:00 - [87] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Merin Ryskin Or better plan: people quit whining about capitals. The solution is to provide worthwhile small-scale objectives and reduce the focus on static POS warfare and alarm-clock capital fights. Capitals really aren't used that much outside of POS warfare, so all I see is a lot of whining about nothing. <-- whining about POS warfare in general. As long as POS warfare is the key to controlling stations, there will be alarm clock ops and months on end of POS repping. -Liang Broken POS warfare =/= remove capitals. The solution to POS warfare is completely independent of capitals, which can be used for plenty of other things. There's no reason to break the non-POS aspects of capital ships just to get rid of POSes... in fact, if POSes were deleted from the game completely capitals would still be balanced just fine.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.21 06:48:00 - [88] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Romulus Maximus Carriers arent the problem. Niether is the ability to have Caps in low sec. Pos arent even directly the problem. Its more the mechanics to which they are / need to be used. Even if they change the way Sov is done, we will still have as many Pos for the isk they make, and reactions they run. Dude, POS warfare = Crap. Like, really, really, really unfun. Alarm clock ops and POS repping is ****ing not fun. Eve is not a damn second/third job, and having repping fleets of 40+ Basilisks doesn't make me feel "uber" or part of something "epic". Hats off to Trouts for entertaining me with awesome music and booze last time I had to do this shit. -Liang I always felt special when they said no you cant come u dont have an osprey and theres none on market.. Why do allainces even bother anyway? Just let em die and pop the next one they put up hehe -excuse the statement,but i really dont like repping ops-
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.21 07:29:00 - [89] Have added a a topic form assembly hall that wld be cool if it made itto csm. Plz comment on it if i missed anything, said something wrong etc. Link:http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=851738 P.S added to sig ;)
Romulus Maximus Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.21 09:35:00 - [90] The idea of letting caps use jump gates is LOL. Personally,ive been saying this should happen for ages. But it wont stop caps ganking low sec. It will just mean that 10 carriers can go roaming, without the need for cynos, fuel etc. Now this would be fun As for hotdropping etc. If someone wants to dangle a 20 bil MS to kill something in low sec, let them. Ive seen counter hot drops take place. And ive seen hotdrops go wrong. If you see a cyno pop, gtfo. If you cant kill the cyno ship, well you were prob gonna die to it anyway then. Caps are a way of life in Eve, good or bad, thats how it is. As has been said for example, if POS disspered from game, Caps wouldnt be used half as much as they are now. Not that i think thats the soulution.

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