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Why we need a SIGNIFICANT nerf on lvl4s in hisec.

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Author	Topic
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.02 18:19:00 - [1141] Originally by: Spurty When I was running missions, I kept getting killed by some guy called 'Super Twinkey69'. He's now my FC. Missions + low sec = negative wallet for the mission runner. Missions in low sec, just completely awful experience. Missions are a big part of EVE, rendering them moronic due to interference from other players breaks a bigger part of EVE than PVP sadly. EVE would continue to exist if PVP vanished. However, if carebears vanished, EVE would rapidly dry up and die. Its a dirty secret. If PvP vanished, EvE would dry up and die. How many of those 'carebears' do you think would hang around if it was only them? Are missions entertaining enough to keep you around for five years? What happens when the market stagnates because nobody loses ships? What would CCP do with the release of each new game that causes a mass emigration of the playerbase? Missions are a small part of EvE. For a large portion of the playerbase (I would even say the 'majority', if I had facts to support it, and not just experience), missions are just a means for the less skilled, like myself, to support other endeavors. Tabula Rasa. Sci-fi game, almost exclusively PvE with dueling. Check out the playerbase on that game. The dirty little secret, is that PvE and PvP are interrelated in EvE, and if you severely hamper one or the other, you hurt both. Ruze Ashkor'Murkon Security File
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.02 18:21:00 - [1142] Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Ruze Wait, people go to losec for missions?!?! I thought losec was for PvP? WTF are you even arguing here now? This thread is so beyond its OP. It's now about me and running missions in low sec \o/. I'll say it again. I run missions in low sec because I CHOOSE TO. I don't have agendas like some of you. The only thing I go to high sec for is to resupply on ammo and losses. But I also RESPECT THE PLAYERS IN HIGH SEC. You see, unlike some of you, I have no hidden agendas. I'm not personally benefitting from what happens in high sec. But I do want to see Eve move forward and improve. And I know that the high sec players pay their monthly fee which in turn helps the game over all. I respect their playstyle and accept it as valid. I'm not better than the high sec player. I'm not "guttsier" or have bigger balls because I operate in low sec/0.0. I'm not superior to them in any way. They're the same as I am. No better no less. They just platy the game a little different than I do. And good for them. See the difference? Psst ... I'm missioning in losec too. Aridia, to be exact, which has a few nice hisec islands, but whatever. I wasn't arguing sh*t, or even throwing poo in your general direction. I just thought it would be a humerous quip at the 'PvP over there' crowd, is all. Sheesh ... touchy, touchy ... Ruze Ashkor'Murkon Security File
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:06:00 - [1143] PIRATE REVENGE THREAD CONTINUES...... .
Need Input	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:08:00 - [1144] Your post is absurd and a weak attempt to gain an influx of "easy targets" into null for kill mail. Simple From my experience running level 4s in Kakakela you can make 60-100mil a day having only 3 mil sp for a -4 agent which at the time was all i could handle. That includes salvaging and looting. RISK? Warp scramming frigs and high sec baiting pirates for starters. Null life one can make a vast fortune quickly. How does a bil a day sound? Risk level goes through the roof but the rewards are luring. Drone ratting pays very well and a seasoned pilot can earn a bill a day doing it and i have seen it personally. A pilot with 3 mil sp can earn 400 mil a day easily. The risks? Roaming gangs, nano faaags and warp scramming strains with a red pops into system. Whats it all mean? Players who are not into pvp can stay out of it by running level 4 missions in HIGH SEC for a decent amount of money. Enough to buy their CNR and fit it out and pay the bills. Thats fine with me cause pvp isnt for everyone especially when most pvp in null is a blob/lag fest where all your skill means squat against a group of seasoned pilots. You cant earn top isk in highsec unless your playing the market me thinks. Players who want top isk and are willing to take more risk can join a 0.0 corp in an alliance and take advantage of that situation. This situation is for the person who welcomes pvp and needs a bigger wallet to replace ships and implants on a regular basis. Its offset and equals itself at the same time. Tit for tat most everyone in my null corp carry about 300 mil in their pockets, buy their pvp ships and lose, then rat for a day and buy another ship....rinse and repeat. The game is setup to give the non pvper a chance to play the game and love it, and the pvper the same chance. Its balanced and working well. Your post is a cry for an influx of noobs (to pvp) to come out into null and get podded right off the bat. Easier target and more of them. This situation would drive MANY players from eve.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:12:00 - [1145] Originally by: Need Input Players who are not into pvp can stay out of it by running level 4 missions in HIGH SEC for a decent amount of money. Enough to buy their CNR and fit it out and pay the bills. What bills?
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:13:00 - [1146] Originally by: Drunk Driver [linebreak][linebreak]PIRATE REVENGE THREAD CONTINUES......[linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak]. Still waiting on that quote.
Judge Ment Aeon Interstellar Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:13:00 - [1147] Last words: Kill the Carebears, Kill the game It's that simple (IS THAT BALANCE ENOUGH FOR YOU)
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:16:00 - [1148] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Drunk Driver [linebreak][linebreak]PIRATE REVENGE THREAD CONTINUES......[linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak]. Still waiting on that quote. Here you go... " .
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:17:00 - [1149] Originally by: Drunk Driver [linebreak][linebreak][linebreak]Here you go...[linebreak][linebreak]"[linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak]. Nono, the price quote. How much are you charging for 100mil isk?
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:20:00 - [1150] Originally by: Judge Ment Last words: Kill the Carebears, Kill the game It's that simple (IS THAT BALANCE ENOUGH FOR YOU) It's not about balance. It's about revenge. (Oh, and I don't think they want anyone to know that because it makes them angry when you point it out.) .

Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:22:00 - [1151] Edited by: Ki An on 02/09/2008 19:22:52 Originally by: Judge Ment Last words: Kill the Carebears, Kill the game It's that simple (IS THAT BALANCE ENOUGH FOR YOU) You vastly overexaggerate your importance. Fact is, Eve would manage without the likes of you. It would not manage without the likes of me. I know it's a tough thing to accept, but you aren't really important for the game. Your money, however, seem to be more important to CCP than my money. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:30:00 - [1152] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Drunk Driver [linebreak][linebreak][linebreak]Here you go...[linebreak][linebreak]"[linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak]. Nono, the price quote. How much are you charging for 100mil isk? Hmmmmm.... Are you seriously trying to buy isk for cash? (Trap is set...) .
Golron	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:30:00 - [1153] too long didn't read
Judge Ment Aeon Interstellar Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:32:00 - [1154] Originally by: Ki An Edited by: Ki An on 02/09/2008 19:22:52 Originally by: Judge Ment Last words: Kill the Carebears, Kill the game It's that simple (IS THAT BALANCE ENOUGH FOR YOU) You vastly overexaggerate your importance. Fact is, Eve would manage without the likes of you. It would not manage without the likes of me. I know it's a tough thing to accept, but you aren't really important for the game. Your money, however, seem to be more important to CCP than my money. Maybe I over exaggerated a little! But could you imagine a world without someone to shoot? BTW I Don't know if ISK = Valid Dollar Exchange
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:47:00 - [1155] Originally by: Judge Ment Maybe I over exaggerated a little! But could you imagine a world without someone to shoot? BTW I Don't know if ISK = Valid Dollar Exchange There are always people to shoot. It's not like pirates don't shoot other pirates. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:48:00 - [1156] Originally by: Drunk Driver [linebreak][linebreak]Hmmmmm....[linebreak][linebreak]Are you seriously trying to buy isk for cash?[linebreak][linebreak][linebreak](Trap is set...)[linebreak][linebreak][linebreak]. No, I'm trying to find out if illegaly purchased isk is cheaper than isk through GTCs. As you know the answer, could you tell me, please? Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Ria Lobo	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:05:00 - [1157] I currently PvP with my main. If I screw up I will run level 4's with my alt to replace my ship. This is my punishment for failing. Lvl4 are however boring and I would love it if there was more of an option for making money in a mixed PvE/PvP environment. Low sec ratting would be fun if the income would offset losing a t2 fitted ship once in a while. At this point it does not even come close. Nerfing high sec LvL 4 at this point will just make me spend more time pressing f1-f8 and may have me quit the game because I get too bored or have me only fly inty instead of recon/hac in PvP because of the cost involved.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:09:00 - [1158] Originally by: Ria Lobo I currently PvP with my main. If I screw up I will run level 4's with my alt to replace my ship. This is my punishment for failing. Lvl4 are however boring and I would love it if there was more of an option for making money in a mixed PvE/PvP environment. Low sec ratting would be fun if the income would offset losing a t2 fitted ship once in a while. At this point it does not even come close. Nerfing high sec LvL 4 at this point will just make me spend more time pressing f1-f8 and may have me quit the game because I get too bored or have me only fly inty instead of recon/hac in PvP because of the cost involved. Yes CCP, don't balance your game or this guy will quit.
cheesyhead Minmatar Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:17:00 - [1159] I'm going to have to agree with ria here. there is nothing wrong with lvl 4 missions in hi-sec. I mean, they are after all a little less rewarding and people can still die in hi-sec. I ganked 2 navy ravens doing hi-sec missions in hi-sec after they decided to kill my ship and give me lovely kill-rights. The truth is, EVE doesn't have to be about PVP. It's a game for the PVPers and the PVE'ers. Therefore there should be a place where people who want nothing to do with PVP to do their thing. The more they turn to the darker side, the more risk they run in hi-sec. (As proven by 2 people who lost navy ravens) Some time ago, I was on your side Ki an, but now i see that there should be a place where carbears do their thing, as boring as it may seem to you and me. And I find that people who whine about these things, are incompetant in finding their own targets. Cheesyhead
Granmethedon III RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:20:00 - [1160] Originally by: cheesyhead I'm going to have to agree with ria here. there is nothing wrong with lvl 4 missions in hi-sec. I mean, they are after all a little less rewarding and people can still die in hi-sec. I ganked 2 navy ravens doing hi-sec missions in hi-sec after they decided to kill my ship and give me lovely kill-rights. The truth is, EVE doesn't have to be about PVP. It's a game for the PVPers and the PVE'ers. Therefore there should be a place where people who want nothing to do with PVP to do their thing. The more they turn to the darker side, the more risk they run in hi-sec. (As proven by 2 people who lost navy ravens) Some time ago, I was on your side Ki an, but now i see that there should be a place where carbears do their thing, as boring as it may seem to you and me. And I find that people who whine about these things, are incompetant in finding their own targets. Cheesyhead I don't think the argument is about people doing their thing, but rather the lack of balance in the risk vs reward system.

Karii Ildarian Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:28:00 - [1161] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Drunk Driver [linebreak][linebreak]Hmmmmm....[linebreak][linebreak]Are you seriously trying to buy isk for cash?[linebreak][linebreak][linebreak](Trap is set...)[linebreak][linebreak][linebreak]. No, I'm trying to find out if illegaly purchased isk is cheaper than isk through GTCs. As you know the answer, could you tell me, please? You still at this Ki AN? If CCP has created a legal way to exchange cash (GTC's) for ISK, what do you think the answer to your question would have to be?
cheesyhead Minmatar Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:33:00 - [1162] Edited by: cheesyhead on 02/09/2008 21:33:58 Originally by: Granmethedon III Originally by: cheesyhead I'm going to have to agree with ria here. there is nothing wrong with lvl 4 missions in hi-sec. I mean, they are after all a little less rewarding and people can still die in hi-sec. I ganked 2 navy ravens doing hi-sec missions in hi-sec after they decided to kill my ship and give me lovely kill-rights. The truth is, EVE doesn't have to be about PVP. It's a game for the PVPers and the PVE'ers. Therefore there should be a place where people who want nothing to do with PVP to do their thing. The more they turn to the darker side, the more risk they run in hi-sec. (As proven by 2 people who lost navy ravens) Some time ago, I was on your side Ki an, but now i see that there should be a place where carbears do their thing, as boring as it may seem to you and me. And I find that people who whine about these things, are incompetant in finding their own targets. Cheesyhead I don't think the argument is about people doing their thing, but rather the lack of balance in the risk vs reward system. But the real reason people are complaining about the risk or reward system is because they are to incompetant to find any other targets. I mean, im assuming the complainers are PVP'ers because if they weren't they would move to hi-sec and do their little missions. So follwoing my assumption they want to shoot the missionrunners. Now of course, the missionrunners don't want to get shot, therefore they move to hi-sec, cutting them off from PVP , therefore doing only PVE. And i think that should be something doable in this game. Of course if these individuals decide they want to PVP aswell, their risk greatly increases, first of all they go to low-sec. second, if they kill anything there is a chance for them to have killrights over their heads. If you want to complain about something, complain about increasing risks for hi-sec missionrunners that PVP, for instance by making kill-rights interchangeable. Or making them have to leave noob-corps to do missions. I don't know. edit :spelling
NocturnalDeath Infinity Enterprises Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:39:00 - [1163] Agree with OP except for one caveat: Move all lvl 4's to lowsec/0.0 PS: (I run all my lvl 4's in 0.0)
Drethon Gallente Selinir	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:50:00 - [1164] Just my 0.02ISK, people will probably not run L4s in low-0.0 sec until the risks provided by reaching the mission are no higher than the risks while operating the mission... ____ "Some times peace must be purchased at the tip of a sword."
Spurty Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:56:00 - [1165] Remove all missions period and just have all mission runners receive a replacement ship + fittings + isk for ammo and medical insurance and implants everytime they die and they will go to 0.0. Man goes to the doc, with a strawberry growing out of his head. Doc says "I'll give you some cream to put on it."
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:57:00 - [1166] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Drunk Driver [linebreak][linebreak]Hmmmmm....[linebreak][linebreak]Are you seriously trying to buy isk for cash?[linebreak][linebreak][linebreak](Trap is set...)[linebreak][linebreak][linebreak]. No, I'm trying to find out if illegaly purchased isk is cheaper than isk through GTCs. As you know the answer, could you tell me, please? I don't know the answer. I neither buy nor sell isk. However it's certainly informative to know that you pursue such things. .
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.02 22:01:00 - [1167] Originally by: Drunk Driver [linebreak][linebreak][linebreak]I don't know the answer. I neither buy nor sell isk.[linebreak][linebreak]However it's certainly informative to know that you pursue such things.[linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak].[linebreak][linebreak] Come on, sure you do. Just tell me how much you're charging for 100mil isk. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 22:02:00 - [1168] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Drunk Driver [linebreak][linebreak][linebreak]I don't know the answer. I neither buy nor sell isk.[linebreak][linebreak]However it's certainly informative to know that you pursue such things.[linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak][linebreak].[linebreak][linebreak] Come on, sure you do. Just tell me how much you're charging for 100mil isk. Angry much? .
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.09.02 22:06:00 - [1169] (1) why do you all care what hi-sec missioners do? (2) play the style you like, and stop worrying what others do. (3) lvl 4's in low-sec or 0.0 will kill Eve. (4) try pvping vs pvpers for once... there's an idea. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Polly Prissypantz Dingleberry Appreciation Society	Posted - 2008.09.02 22:12:00 - [1170] Originally by: Pithecanthropus (4) try pvping vs pvpers for once... there's an idea. QFT

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