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L4 missioning hubs--a contributing reason to caps/blobs online!

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Lady Valory Caldari Caldari Strike Force	Posted - 2008.08.22 11:47:00 - [1] Let's take Motsu... Conservative numbers: 100 people online per hour running L4 missions at a paltry 10mil isk per hour, 23 hours a day... That factors into 23 billion isk per day from that one L4 agent. Generous numbers: 200 people online per hour running L4 missions in Motsu at 15 million isk per hour. . . That factors into 69 billion isk per day from that one L4 agent... Well, we can debate numbers, but let's just split the difference and call it 40 billion isk a day from ONE system farming L4 agents... 40 billion isk a day? Wow! Do we have a 0.0 ratting system that comes close to 40 billion isk a day? Perhaps some uber ratting alliance can run the numbers on 20 belts with 10 triple spawns ratted every 20 min? A 20 belt uber 0.0 system with 10 triple 1850000 spawns farmed three times per hour with no interuptions or pvp for 23 hours a day... Sure! But that comes out to just 1.2 billion isk in bounty per day? Let's triple that for the salvage and also the loot--thats about 5 billion isk a day. We can't add in officer or faction rats as you are farming the same triple spawns for 23 hours straight with no pvp or interuption other than different alliance members/farmers logging in and out to take over ratting jobs . . . Wow? Could it really be that one system like Motsu makes 40 billion isk a day but the best 0.0 system makes 5 billion isk a day? Sure we can throw in moon mining but there are also lots of other isk faucets in every high sec system besides mining... Is it funny that in high sec we can get 10000 or so battleship rats per day while in pirate controlled, 0.0 we have trouble getting anywhere near that number of battleships ? So much for role-playing... But back to my original thesis... Where are the contributing factors to blobs in 0.0, cap-blobs in 0.0, and the trend to capital ships online coming from? Granted there are MANY contributing factors? But in a given month, Motsu has added the equivalent isk of 1000 carriers to the game! Ok, is that too much from the 1.2 trillion isk from Motsu? How about 500 FITTED carriers PER MONTH? Ok fine, that is too much? How about 30 motherships per month from just Motsu? Other people have talked about how we need rampant isk faucets in high sec because, "They buy our uber 0.0 faction and officer gear." Ok, great, sure, and those trillions of isk from high sec level four missions? Some of that isk doesn't turn into capital ships for blobs and lag fest in 0.0? I mean seriously, in this summer the level four mission hubs have generated the equivalent of thousands of carriers, dreads, etc . . . Let's look at another argument, "EVE is a PVP game. 0.0 [or low sec] and combat is the destination of the game." Hmm, I guess I thought that was true when I signed on. But then why are the resources so skewed? I mean this is the internets uber pvp game in "cold dark space"? Yes, it is. In fact we have a few dozen safe hi sec systems that pump out 40 billion isk PER DAY (over a trillion per month). You see this is almost 6-8 times better as the best pvp zones [and that's OK with the playerbase], and then all the cheap isk funds lag fested, capital ships online games in the pvp zones. It's really fun, and no one has a problem with it! How do those systems pump out so much isk per day? "Well, we made it really easy for them. We have mauraders that do double damage and then can fit tractor beams that haul twice as fast so they can loot their own missions and salvage them. Then we added 1000+m3 of cargo bay so they don't need to dock as much" "Ah, ok, great. Anything else?" "Oh, yes! We added new missions last patch with more and larger bs that can be farmed easily--up to 7 days in a row! Some of these bs even have more isk bounties than 0.0!" "Awesome! Anything else?" "Of course! We then let the mission runners go to NPC corps for their WHOLE CAREER! So they cant be war declared!"
The Wounded Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.08.22 11:48:00 - [2] Edited by: The Wounded on 22/08/2008 11:49:06 u dont make 10m/h in motsu, it takes an hour to even get a mission according to all the lag in motsu topics/posts
Hungo Minmatar The Unholy Allance	Posted - 2008.08.22 11:50:00 - [3] So ill sum it up You are a pvper You want more targets in 0.0 You want us in high sec nerfed because your to stupid to work out how to earn ISK You want lvl 4's NERFED because 2 friends can make 600 odd mil a day each wroking as a team? So in another nutshell Im a pvper, i dont like rich carebears, please stop them cause i feel wronged That should do it seriously /care
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.08.22 11:58:00 - [4] Another Thread another Fail. Or all this NPC corp bears collecting her ISK, building up Cap fleets and steamroll 0.0? Would be quite funny but no, that don¦t happens(leving the army of alts out of the way). Also I think Allinaces got more than one System to farm and by the amount of Caps and Super Caps Alliances useses today her income should be rather nerft than boosted. Seriously. Also Maroders don¦t have the double Damage of a T1 BS(actualy this would be quite nice in my Opinion), they simply got 50% of the Turrets and a 100% Bonus on them. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.22 12:26:00 - [5] Originally by: Hungo So ill sum it up You are a pvper You want more targets in 0.0 You want us in high sec nerfed because your to stupid to work out how to earn ISK You want lvl 4's NERFED because 2 friends can make 600 odd mil a day each wroking as a team? So in another nutshell Im a pvper, i dont like rich carebears, please stop them cause i feel wronged That should do it seriously /care Congratulations a perfect 6.0 of wrong. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. The Requiem	Posted - 2008.08.22 12:37:00 - [6] Why is everyone whinging about level 4 agents all of a sudden? warp drive active \| nature vraie
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.08.22 12:42:00 - [7] Originally by: Lady Valory Wow? Could it really be that one system like Motsu makes 40 billion isk a day but the best 0.0 system makes 5 billion isk a day? Sure we can throw in moon mining but there are also lots of other isk faucets in every high sec system besides mining... How many systems with Motsu population is there? 6, maximum. How many 0.0 systems with decent number of belts and sec statut is there? 1000+. Quote: But back to my original thesis... Where are the contributing factors to blobs in 0.0, cap-blobs in 0.0, and the trend to capital ships online coming from? Granted there are MANY contributing factors? But in a given month, Motsu has added the equivalent isk of 1000 carriers to the game! Ok, is that too much from the 1.2 trillion isk from Motsu? How about 500 FITTED carriers PER MONTH? Ok fine, that is too much? How about 30 motherships per month from just Motsu? Other people have talked about how we need rampant isk faucets in high sec because, "They buy our uber 0.0 faction and officer gear." Ok, great, sure, and those trillions of isk from high sec level four missions? Some of that isk doesn't turn into capital ships for blobs and lag fest in 0.0? I mean seriously, in this summer the level four mission hubs have generated the equivalent of thousands of carriers, dreads, etc . . . sigh So, thousands of players grinding isks 24/7 for a month make a big stack of money. Shocking! Of course, most of those players aren't interested in 0.0 pvp, and as such will never build a cap ship, and the few players that do are part of many competing alliances, so any given single one of them doesn't get nearly that many isks from hi-sec mission-running, but let's not let minor little facts get in the way of a whining thread... Quote: Let's look at another argument, "EVE is a PVP game. 0.0 [or low sec] and combat is the destination of the game." Clue: market interactions ARE PVP. PVP isn't limited to blowing things up. Mission-runners thus do a bit of pvp when they want to sell implants or faction ammos or whatever. Quote: "Well, we made it really easy for them. We have mauraders that do double damage and then can fit tractor beams that haul twice as fast so they can loot their own missions and salvage them. Then we added 1000+m3 of cargo bay so they don't need to dock as much" "Ah, ok, great. Anything else?" Missions were already easy before marauders came out. All they did was increase a bit the profitability, as a 750M+ isks and 3M+ SP investment should. Next time you'll whine about faction mods being more effective than T2 mods? Quote: "Oh, yes! We added new missions last patch with more and larger bs that can be farmed easily--up to 7 days in a row! Some of these bs even have more isk bounties than 0.0!" Stupidity at work. Farming a mission require that you don't accept any other mission from that agent, for a week. Not something anyone with an IQ requiring two or three digits would consider owerpowered income. ------------------------------------------
Galvatine	Posted - 2008.08.22 12:43:00 - [8] Originally by: Winterblink Why is everyone whinging about level 4 agents all of a sudden? Its simple, with the massive sec hit they will get for suicide ganks soon, they are clutching at ways of making people go to low sec systems so they can get their easy kills again very sad really There may be a disparity in earning potential between hi-low-null sec but trying to force the carebears out will only make them leave. Making low/null sec more interesting and tempting is the only way to "solve" the "problem"
Lady Valory Caldari Caldari Strike Force	Posted - 2008.08.22 12:47:00 - [9] Edited by: Lady Valory on 22/08/2008 12:50:34 As far as the farming comment as stupid, the poster forgot that when you hit a certain standing level, you can accept dozens of L4 missions, then select the ones you want, then farm each one 7 days in a row. In other words, I've had up to 10 worlds collide going at the same time, so each day you have 10 missions to farm, all within 5 jumps with the same set up for a week each... Then you can just chain them if you so desire then move to another set of agents in a different area to farm or run missions... Again, another flamer who just doesn't understand hi-sec missions and the possibilities of them, such as farming missions... My maurader comment should have read, "Mauraders have double damage in 4 turrents, so they free three turrents for salvaging/tractor beams. The tractor beams are twice as fast as regular tractor beams." Thus if you look at a mauraders high slots you get: 4 guns/turrents --equal to 8 turrents 2 fast tractor beams equal to 4 regular tractor beams as they are twice as fast 1 salvager SO, I'm looking at CCPS addition of a 13 high slot ship, almost twice as many slots as some battleships! [Thus more speed, and an equivalent increase in ratting isk, especially in high sec where you can use those ships much more safely than 0.0]
Gul Du'kat	Posted - 2008.08.22 12:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Winterblink Why is everyone whinging about level 4 agents all of a sudden? its their stealth way of whining about the suicide ganking and nano rebalancing.

Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Winterblink Why is everyone whinging about level 4 agents all of a sudden? Level 4 missions have always been "whined" about. It's just that the recent changes are the balance equivalent of making polycarbs -30% mass. BTW do you define a "whine" as 'someone asking for a change you don't agree with'? The word seems to have almost entirely lost it's original meaning in this forum. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
TheEndofTheWorld Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Gul Du'kat Originally by: Winterblink Why is everyone whinging about level 4 agents all of a sudden? its their stealth way of whining about the suicide ganking and nano rebalancing. lvl4s need rebalanced as well.
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:07:00 - [13] Originally by: Shadowsword sigh So, thousands of players grinding isks 24/7 for a month make a big stack of money. Shocking! I think it's interesting to compare ISK making ability in terms of groups rather than individuals. So let's think of a scenario where we take two groups of 10 members. We have 10 alliance members in 0.0 space and 10 alliance members in hi-sec space. Which group will make more isk per hour?
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Winterblink Why is everyone whinging about level 4 agents all of a sudden? They are moronic, cut&paste, dried out, no reason, bitter post nano-nerf, wannabe, fail EvE forum wan.. kers.. who won't shut up for anything and just keep blahh bllaahhh bllaaabbing away like little children sissies with no goal and no direction. Oh and lack of attention and bad upbringing also come to mind. Maybe bad basement smell as well!
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:17:00 - [15] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Originally by: Shadowsword sigh So, thousands of players grinding isks 24/7 for a month make a big stack of money. Shocking! I think it's interesting to compare ISK making ability in terms of groups rather than individuals. So let's think of a scenario where we take two groups of 10 members. We have 10 alliance members in 0.0 space and 10 alliance members in hi-sec space. Which group will make more isk per hour? If the 0.0 ratters have sole access to a couple of decent systems, they will make more if you consider only the time in which they rat. Over the long term, on everage, the empire mission runners will make a lot more, because they don't have to fight to maintain their space, hide from hostiles, pay corp tax, maintain a fleet of PvP ships, forgo using expensive fits, share belts with blues, travel far to the best ratting spots, pay 0.0 prices for ships, mods and ammo, travel back to hi-sec and back to 0.0 every time they need skillbooks or implants or ships/mods/ammo not locally available, risk their loot being hauled back to empire, or else sell at far lower prices. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:17:00 - [16] Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Winterblink Why is everyone whinging about level 4 agents all of a sudden? They are moronic, cut&paste, dried out, no reason, bitter post nano-nerf, wannabe, fail EvE forum wan.. kers.. who won't shut up for anything and just keep blahh bllaahhh bllaaabbing away like little children sissies with no goal and no direction. Oh and lack of attention and bad upbringing also come to mind. Maybe bad basement smell as well! Quoted for irony. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Galvatine	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:21:00 - [17] Quote: If the 0.0 ratters have sole access to a couple of decent systems, they will make more if you consider only the time in which they rat. Over the long term, on everage, the empire mission runners will make a lot more, because they don't have to fight to maintain their space, hide from hostiles, pay corp tax, maintain a fleet of PvP ships, forgo using expensive fits, share belts with blues, travel far to the best ratting spots, pay 0.0 prices for ships, mods and ammo, travel back to hi-sec and back to 0.0 every time they need skillbooks or implants or ships/mods/ammo not locally available, risk their loot being hauled back to empire, or else sell at far lower prices. To be fair though, null sec players get to play the whole game something that hi-sec players never do. I really am all for increasing rewards in low/null sec, but personally think the real reason people are complaining is lack of easy targets. Its really that simple
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:22:00 - [18] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Winterblink Why is everyone whinging about level 4 agents all of a sudden? They are moronic, cut&paste, dried out, no reason, bitter post nano-nerf, wannabe, fail EvE forum wan.. kers.. who won't shut up for anything and just keep blahh bllaahhh bllaaabbing away like little children sissies with no goal and no direction. Oh and lack of attention and bad upbringing also come to mind. Maybe bad basement smell as well! Quoted for irony. Quoted for failed attempt at something.
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:22:00 - [19] More isk doesn't create more ships, capital or otherwise. Come to think of it minerals make those ships, OMG!!!!11!11ONE!! NERF MINERS!!!! _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Christari Zuborov Originally by: Shadowsword sigh So, thousands of players grinding isks 24/7 for a month make a big stack of money. Shocking! I think it's interesting to compare ISK making ability in terms of groups rather than individuals. So let's think of a scenario where we take two groups of 10 members. We have 10 alliance members in 0.0 space and 10 alliance members in hi-sec space. Which group will make more isk per hour? If the 0.0 ratters have sole access to a couple of decent systems, they will make more if you consider only the time in which they rat. Over the long term, on everage, the empire mission runners will make a lot more, because they don't have to fight to maintain their space, hide from hostiles, pay corp tax, maintain a fleet of PvP ships, forgo using expensive fits, share belts with blues, travel far to the best ratting spots, pay 0.0 prices for ships, mods and ammo, travel back to hi-sec and back to 0.0 every time they need skillbooks or implants or ships/mods/ammo not locally available, risk their loot being hauled back to empire, or else sell at far lower prices. Really? So why aren't you in high sec then reaking profits? Oh i forgot, it's much better down for you in 0.0 isn't it. Then shut up about other people's play!

5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:32:00 - [21] Quote: Its simple, with the massive sec hit they will get for suicide ganks soon, they are clutching at ways of making people go to low sec systems so they can get their easy kills again very sad really There may be a disparity in earning potential between hi-low-null sec but trying to force the carebears out will only make them leave. Making low/null sec more interesting and tempting is the only way to "solve" the "problem No, What's much more sad is the dozens of idiots that'll simply say anything they can come up with anything to protect their easy income. The tired old drawn out reply to every thread about highsec by the morons is some form of "WE R NOT LISTIN TO YUO YUO R PIRATE TRYIN TO FORCE US TO LOWSEC" who probably never even bother to read any of them. EVEN THOUGH TIME AND TIME AGAIN I'M SEEING THE VERY SAME PEOPLE SPOUT THIS CRAP THAT WERE ALSO REPLYING TO OTHER THREADS NOT A WEEK BEFORE HOW NO MATTER HOW YOU NERF LOWSEC, THE CAREBEARS WILL JUST DO THE NEXT MOST PROFITABLE THING. And guess what, you were right the first time. Here's the problem people like me have, and I DO level 4 missions. Rough risk scale-o-meter. Nullsec - riskriskriskriskrisk / rewardrewardrewardrewardrewardreward Lowsec Mission Running - riskriskriskriskriskriskriskrisk / rewardrewardrewardreward Lowsec Mining - riskriskriskriskriskriskriskrisk / rewardreward Highsec Mission running - risk / rewardrewardrewardreward Highsec Mining - risk / rewardreward If all they did was double lowsec agent reward and payout even. Then maybe nearly every lowsec pirate and his mother wouldn't feel the need to have a nullsec/highsec alt to earn money with. Someone suggested just buffing the lowsec rewards even. AND THE CAREBEARS COMPLAINED ABOUT THAT TOO, SAYING IT WOULD DEVALUE HIGHSEC AND HIGHSEC GOODS. To make a summary of the carebear argument. A1 - Carebears do not understand why other people are always trying to tell them how to play their game in highsec when they just want to be left alone to do their missions. A2 - Carebears then in a vast showing of hippocrisy do not want any changes to lowsec or anything that may have nockon effects of the economy that could affect their income while at the same time complaining about anything that already does (suicide/wardecs) B1 - Carebears do not want highsec nerfed as they believe they are trying to be forced into lowsec by "griefers" deliberately unwilling to even accomodate the notion of overgenerous lvl 4 payouts into their thoughts. Not willing to budge even an inch even on a small percentage nerf to payouts or making the missions actually a bit harder and more worth the payouts. B2 - Carebears then in a vast showing of contradicting themselves make the point time and time again to people to stop trying to nerf empire, you aren't going to force us into lowsec, it's too risky, we'll just do the next most profitable thing in empire! Summary of the carebear argument : MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME, MEMEME RICH, MEMEME SAFE, MEMEMEMEMEME.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:34:00 - [22] Originally by: Winterblink Why is everyone whinging about level 4 agents all of a sudden? As Bob Dylan once said, "People got alot of bits and bytes and they gotta ***** about something"... The all time favOrite complaint topic, suicide ganking, is in the pipe to be "fixed". The second all time favOrite whine, OMGnanos, is also in the fix pipe. It is my guess that after the suicide ganking fix patch is applied, suicide ganking as a complaint topic will start making it's way back up the top 10 things to complain about list. I'm willing to put iskies on it if anyone wants to make a "lets see in 4-6 months" sort of bet. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Galvatine	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:35:00 - [23] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Quote: Its simple, with the massive sec hit they will get for suicide ganks soon, they are clutching at ways of making people go to low sec systems so they can get their easy kills again very sad really There may be a disparity in earning potential between hi-low-null sec but trying to force the carebears out will only make them leave. Making low/null sec more interesting and tempting is the only way to "solve" the "problem No, What's much more sad is the dozens of idiots that'll simply say anything they can come up with anything to protect their easy income. The tired old drawn out reply to every thread about highsec by the morons is some form of "WE R NOT LISTIN TO YUO YUO R PIRATE TRYIN TO FORCE US TO LOWSEC" who probably never even bother to read any of them. EVEN THOUGH TIME AND TIME AGAIN I'M SEEING THE VERY SAME PEOPLE SPOUT THIS CRAP THAT WERE ALSO REPLYING TO OTHER THREADS NOT A WEEK BEFORE HOW NO MATTER HOW YOU NERF LOWSEC, THE CAREBEARS WILL JUST DO THE NEXT MOST PROFITABLE THING. And guess what, you were right the first time. Here's the problem people like me have, and I DO level 4 missions. Rough risk scale-o-meter. Nullsec - riskriskriskriskrisk / rewardrewardrewardrewardrewardreward Lowsec Mission Running - riskriskriskriskriskriskriskrisk / rewardrewardrewardreward Lowsec Mining - riskriskriskriskriskriskriskrisk / rewardreward Highsec Mission running - risk / rewardrewardrewardreward Highsec Mining - risk / rewardreward If all they did was double lowsec agent reward and payout even. Then maybe nearly every lowsec pirate and his mother wouldn't feel the need to have a nullsec/highsec alt to earn money with. Someone suggested just buffing the lowsec rewards even. AND THE CAREBEARS COMPLAINED ABOUT THAT TOO, SAYING IT WOULD DEVALUE HIGHSEC AND HIGHSEC GOODS. To make a summary of the carebear argument. A1 - Carebears do not understand why other people are always trying to tell them how to play their game in highsec when they just want to be left alone to do their missions. A2 - Carebears then in a vast showing of hippocrisy do not want any changes to lowsec or anything that may have nockon effects of the economy that could affect their income while at the same time complaining about anything that already does (suicide/wardecs) B1 - Carebears do not want highsec nerfed as they believe they are trying to be forced into lowsec by "griefers" deliberately unwilling to even accomodate the notion of overgenerous lvl 4 payouts into their thoughts. Not willing to budge even an inch even on a small percentage nerf to payouts or making the missions actually a bit harder and more worth the payouts. B2 - Carebears then in a vast showing of contradicting themselves make the point time and time again to people to stop trying to nerf empire, you aren't going to force us into lowsec, it's too risky, we'll just do the next most profitable thing in empire! Summary of the carebear argument : MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME, MEMEME RICH, MEMEME SAFE, MEMEMEMEMEME. Even though your foaming at the mouth, you still failed to point out how a hi sec carebear affects you in ANY WAY So what if there is little risk, it has little effect on you in 0.0 so why do you care?

CCP Navigator C C P	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:48:00 - [24] Please keep these discussions to one thread. Making multiple threads on thesame subject is not permitted. Navigator Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Ambien Torca	Posted - 2008.08.22 13:53:00 - [25] Personally I don¦t care much about highsec rewards but lowsec/0.0 could use significant buff when talking about average players perspective (not moon mining or other such alliance/corp scale endeavours). Lowsec: Risk is quite high and rewards while boosted over highsec, are not even close enough to counter difficulties you will encounter there: 1) Pirates/PVPers looking to kill you and most ships can¦t PVE in PVP setup meaning that your only option is to avoid them. Jumping through gates without scouting is suicidal (you essentially want 2 accounts to operate as a lowsec missioneer. That or really good local intel channel and friendly support nearby). 2) Rewards for increased risk are not sufficient to warrant using anything more than your basic T2 raven while in highsec you can go with stuff like tachyon paladin or torpedo golem both of which run missions much faster. 3) Supply issues, you probably have to set up your own ammo and possibly also ship production. Also you have to ferry whatever valuable drops you got from your missions to highsec (not huge risk with WTZ but there¦s always small change of getting popped). 0.0: Risks are moderate if you have scouting/intel support. You will end up competing with your friends over resources. 1) One system can¦t support more than 2-3 ratters at same time, ideally you¦d want about 20+ static belts per player. Not all systems are equal, reward level varies wildly from 500k-950k double BS spawns to 1.8m triples. 2) Setting up chains can take hours and yet it only takes few minutes for someone to wipe them out forcing you to start over. 3) Hostile PVPers can pop up at any time so you need solid intel at all times. You can belt rat in PVP setup however, which is much better than what lowsec mission runner has to deal with. 4) Unless you like to rat with cloak fitted you have to deploy pos/station and you probably want to do that anyway for refining services / loot storage. 5) For best profits you have to move your good loot drops to highsec for sale, risk varies (carrier ferrying is quite safe when done properly).

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