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Raniss
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Posted - 2008.08.24 22:56:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Pottsey
"That's an interesting assertion. How would you apply it to, say, a Megathron?"
Not too sure it's better than an amour tank but it does work.
7 neut blasters T2. 3 damage mods and 4 PDS for a HP buffer and cap, perhaps 3 pds and 1 DCU. Then fit 1 microwarp, web, invul field and shield extender or no web and 2 shield extenders in the mids. As your in a gang you then get a 10 to 15% further shield HP boost. If you have the isk use T1 extender rigs.
You end up with a 1000 ish dps output, faster than a plate amour tank, a 20 to 30k shield buffer that regens. Plus most people think your an amour tanked so hit you for thermal/kinetic.
Useless solo but in a gang its works well.
and then mr nanozealot comes along and *pewpewpew* bye shield tanked mega.
Really...armorbuffer is better since everyone is going to fly amarr and all armortanks have a high natural resistance to em...
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.08.25 10:10:00 -
[32]
"and then mr nanozealot comes along and *pewpewpew* bye shield tanked mega."
But that would happen to the plate tank only worse as the amour plate tank is slower. At least with the shield tank you have a little more speed, more spare cap and fitting to run a large energy destabilise.
" and all armortanks have a high natural resistance to em..."
Which is precisely the reason why people don't use EM on amour tanked ships often. Anyway EM is easy to fix just swap 1 extender rig fro 1 EM rig.
____
Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation
(www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.02 14:59:00 -
[33]
Wow, I didn't think I would get such discussion about this thread I initiated.
So from the sounds of it, my fantasy (assume perfect ship skills, more money than common sense) Mrymidon has no place in the game, other than to fatten some pirate's hangar?
Low:
6x Shield Power Relay II
Mid:
3 Large Shield Extender II
2 x Caldari Invulnerability Field
High:
2 x Medium Diminishing Power System Drain
4 x Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator
Rigs:
3 x Core Defence Field Purger II
Assuming no gang bonuses, no implants, and the energy vampires have targets, this ship can tank forever the following, while pumping out 493 DPS:
EM: 1024 DPS
Thermal: 1280 DPS
Kinetic: 1704 DPS
Explosive: 2044 DPS
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Nefertria Amarriantis
Amarr
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.09.02 15:09:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Joss Sparq
Originally by: Christina Bamar
It depends entirely on the circumstances.
If you're going for a crazy expensive deadspace fitted PvE setup then yes, shield tanking is better.
Typically in PvP armor tanking wins out though.
For eloquence, this. I've always said that in PvP Shields are the little red bar to let you know you should turn your armor tank on soon and/or that someone took you off their Christmas card list.
I really did LOL - that ones going in my bio for sure.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.02 15:42:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 02/09/2008 15:42:39
Originally by: Dinsdale Pirannha
Wow, I didn't think I would get such discussion about this thread I initiated.
So from the sounds of it, my fantasy (assume perfect ship skills, more money than common sense) Mrymidon has no place in the game, other than to fatten some pirate's hangar?
Low:
6x Shield Power Relay II
Mid:
3 Large Shield Extender II
2 x Caldari Invulnerability Field
High:
2 x Medium Diminishing Power System Drain
4 x Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator
Rigs:
3 x Core Defence Field Purger II
Assuming no gang bonuses, no implants, and the energy vampires have targets, this ship can tank forever the following, while pumping out 493 DPS:
EM: 1024 DPS
Thermal: 1280 DPS
Kinetic: 1704 DPS
Explosive: 2044 DPS
That is precisely the sort of utterly useless for PvP setup.
You can't kill anything solo, there are way better setups (even shield 'tanked') for gangs (think blasters/rails + magstabs, lots of them + a way of getting into/out of range), and it's overly expensive to be used in PvP really. No way of getting close or mantaining range either.
I mean, yeah, on average some 1300-1400 DPS tanked, which means absolutely nothing the moment you run into three ships firing on you.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint |
Nerfmycap
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Posted - 2008.09.02 16:08:00 -
[36]
I'd say shield is superior to armortanking for PvE purposes. Instant gain, slowly recharging automatically and if tank would fail you have armor and structure to get out on. For fleets.. I just love passive armor tanking. But a rokh can do just fine with passive shield tank. Drake/nighthawk are awesome passive shieldtanks. Active armortanks can be powerful too... it's pretty even imo.
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Nerfmycap
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Posted - 2008.09.02 16:09:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Pottsey
"and then mr nanozealot comes along and *pewpewpew* bye shield tanked mega."
But that would happen to the plate tank only worse as the amour plate tank is slower. At least with the shield tank you have a little more speed, more spare cap and fitting to run a large energy destabilise.
" and all armortanks have a high natural resistance to em..."
Which is precisely the reason why people don't use EM on amour tanked ships often. Anyway EM is easy to fix just swap 1 extender rig fro 1 EM rig.
Watch out or pottsey will kill you with his shieldtanked Navy Mega on Sisi. Just a "headsup".
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2008.09.02 18:50:00 -
[38]
reason shield tanking is not as good for pvp is because your best pvp modules are mid slot modules and that is where ALL of your shield mods go.
armor tankers use low slots leaving their mids for either cap recharge rate or pvp items
but when you look at the mods its different story
when comparing the two, lets say BS sized for example sake. shields can boost up about 1000 hit points per 4 seconds. that same calibur armor ripper does about the same hit points every 15 seconds. both with out any extra skills or implants for about the same amount of cap use.
now start adding skills. the shield booster cant shorten his activation rate on the shield but the armor user can.
both can increase the amount they boost almost equally
the slow activation rate of the armor ripper makes it more cap efficient than shield.
now start adding implants into it.
the armor tanker cant get much below a 10 second activation, the shield tanker cant change his activation rate much at all and the little bit they can do isnt really worth it cuz of eve math. a small percent of a small number yields a smaller gain where as that same percent on a module that takes 15 seconds base will get a bigger decrease in time.
no add the crystal set to the shield tanker and the slave set for the armor guy.
ok the armor guy now has 40k armor but the shield booster now becomes 10 times more cap efficient than armor tanking.
now the shield booster is doing 2200 every 3.8 seconds or less with only using one boost amp. the armor tanker is still only doing maybe 1600 every 10 seconds and has no access or module to boost the armor ripper like the shield amp
but like i said to start with, you gotta give up some of your shield tank to fit some of the most important pvp items. so it comes down to what you want to do, your skills with it, and the situation you throw it into..
take the best tank of either type, throw it into a situation it aint gonna like and guess what. regardless of skills or mods ..... you loose.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.02 19:33:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 02/09/2008 19:34:02
Originally by: X'Alor
the shield tanker cant change his activation rate much at all and the little bit they can do isnt really worth it cuz of eve math. a small percent of a small number yields a smaller gain where as that same percent on a module that takes 15 seconds base will get a bigger decrease in time.
Uhhh. No.
10% more tank is always 10% more tank. 10% less activation time is always 10% less activation times. How big or small* are the numbers doesn't matter.
*well, rounding errors. It still doesn't matter, the differences are extremely small.
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Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Firestar Drive Yards
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Posted - 2008.09.02 19:39:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ash Bringer
shield tanks are good for PvE and only if passive. If active they are good at bursts as cap/hp healed ratio is too high u can't keep tank up so long.. Also cap giving mods mostly nerf shield boost or takes a shield tank slot (cap booster)
So uber passive shield tanks take everywhere in your ship, meds,lows and even rigs.
Armor tank is cap efficient. Leaves you place to tackle. And buffer tank even not regenerating is more than enough for most of the PvP ships.
All my shield tanking ships can run their shield booster + all mods forever. Only one cap mod nerfs shield boosting.
Try capacitor flux coils. |
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Cloora
Black River Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.02 22:57:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Pottsey
People who say that are epic fail and don't know what they are talking about. Why do people still come out with this rubbish. SPR dont lower damage, I use them with my railguns no problem at 700dps from my railguns without drones, that's hardly no damage. I do agree pure tanking is worthless to many people over tank for PvE.
wow... how ignorant are you?
You show me ANY Railgun setup that has SPRs in the lows AND does 700DPS WITHOUT DRONES and I will show you an Ibis that can tank a DDD.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.02 23:19:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 02/09/2008 23:19:31
Originally by: Cloora
wow... how ignorant are you?
You show me ANY Railgun setup that has SPRs in the lows AND does 700DPS WITHOUT DRONES and I will show you an Ibis that can tank a DDD.
This is just too easy:
[Hyperion, I win]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Large Shield Extender II
Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Field
Caldari Navy Ballistic Deflection Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Core Defence Field Purger II
Core Defence Field Purger II
Core Defence Field Purger II
Navy stuff for CPU problems, otherwise you need to waste space on a CPU implant. Does 691 dps without drones, the proper implants will put it safely above 700. Oh yes, and it tanks 440 dps on kin/thermal (since everyone runs missions for Caldari Navy). |
Cloora
Black River Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.03 00:47:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Cloora on 03/09/2008 00:48:59
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 02/09/2008 23:19:31
Originally by: Cloora
wow... how ignorant are you?
You show me ANY Railgun setup that has SPRs in the lows AND does 700DPS WITHOUT DRONES and I will show you an Ibis that can tank a DDD.
This is just too easy:
[Hyperion, I win]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Large Shield Extender II
Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Field
Caldari Navy Ballistic Deflection Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Core Defence Field Purger II
Core Defence Field Purger II
Core Defence Field Purger II
Navy stuff for CPU problems, otherwise you need to waste space on a CPU implant. Does 691 dps without drones, the proper implants will put it safely above 700. Oh yes, and it tanks 440 dps on kin/thermal (since everyone runs missions for Caldari Navy).
No you didn't. You hit 691. And it's tank is craptacular.
And what kinda range are you getting with that AM ammo? With what kinda of tracking?
Stop playing EFT online and actually post a useful setup.
EDIT: Oh wait, you used T2 rigs on this crapboat too? Utter failure...
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.09.03 03:41:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Pottsey
"That's an interesting assertion. How would you apply it to, say, a Megathron?"
Not too sure it's better than an amour tank but it does work.
7 neut blasters T2. 3 damage mods and 4 PDS for a HP buffer and cap, perhaps 3 pds and 1 DCU. Then fit 1 microwarp, web, invul field and shield extender or no web and 2 shield extenders in the mids. As your in a gang you then get a 10 to 15% further shield HP boost. If you have the isk use T1 extender rigs.
You end up with a 1000 ish dps output, faster than a plate amour tank, a 20 to 30k shield buffer that regens. Plus most people think your an amour tanked so hit you for thermal/kinetic.
Useless solo but in a gang its works well.
if you were flying with chimera/basilisk support I guess I would go with it, kinda hit a cpu wall trying to fit a heavy neut, and no I won't downgrade from neutrons 
probably better off fitting the armor tank with a eccm and mwd/web/cap booster if you can afford to drop the point.
too tired and too many damn variables to try and argue it much further either way.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.09.03 03:51:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Cloora
Edited by: Cloora on 03/09/2008 00:48:59
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 02/09/2008 23:19:31
Originally by: Cloora
wow... how ignorant are you?
You show me ANY Railgun setup that has SPRs in the lows AND does 700DPS WITHOUT DRONES and I will show you an Ibis that can tank a DDD.
This is just too easy:
[Hyperion, I win]
No you didn't. You hit 691. And it's tank is craptacular.
And what kinda range are you getting with that AM ammo? With what kinda of tracking?
Stop playing EFT online and actually post a useful setup.
EDIT: Oh wait, you used T2 rigs on this crapboat too? Utter failure...
Actually, it IS a win. See, you asked for a rail ship that can achieve 700 DPS with SPR's in the lows. You made no mention of cost, viability or general combat utility. The above ship might be a TINY bit shy of that 700 DPS mark but let's face it, close range T2 ammo nudges it past that line of on paper DPS. Overheating the guns again pushes the DPS mark past 700 DPS. Replacement of a single low slot with a fourth mag stab does the same. Use of a single 3% implant, at a cost of maybe 20 million isk if you buy it on contact gets you the requested goal.
If you want a T2 fit with proper balance and utility, ask for a T2 fit with proper balance and utility. You recieved everything you asked for. Now, I want my DD proof Ibis. I suspect even the best EFT warriors won't be able to cook up one of those.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.03 03:55:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/09/2008 03:56:03
Originally by: Cloora
No you didn't. You hit 691. And it's tank is craptacular.
And what kinda range are you getting with that AM ammo? With what kinda of tracking?
Stop playing EFT online and actually post a useful setup.
EDIT: Oh wait, you used T2 rigs on this crapboat too? Utter failure...
Fine, whine a little less and load Javelin L. 702 dps from guns. I still win.
And what did you expect for ammo? Are you delusional enough to think you could get 700+ gun damage from ANY setup without using close-range ammo?
As for the rest, you said "show me ANY railgun setup", not "show me a good railgun setup that you'd fly". I met your little challenge, and I accept your concession.
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Cloora
Black River Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.03 04:30:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Cloora on 03/09/2008 04:30:55
Listen, the poster I was replying to was talking like they fly this magical railgun ship that does 700+DPS with SPR's in the lows often. Well then I want to see THIER setup so I can mock it for how fail it is. Because no one flys a passive tanked rail ship that is going to do any thing close to 700 DPS at a range that you would use rails at without getting caught with thier pants down from having no tracking at the closer ranges. Especially a Hype with no tracking bonus. NO MWD? how do you control range? You are going to fail somewhere in that setup. You don't setup a rail ship for uber PWNAGE type of damage. You set it up for range and then hope you can get some respectable DPS out of it for fleet ranges.
Anyone that actually flys in PvP regularly knows EFT only tells half the story. How well a setup works on TQ is the real meat and potatoes.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.03 04:42:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Cloora
Edited by: Cloora on 03/09/2008 04:30:55
Listen, the poster I was replying to was talking like they fly this magical railgun ship that does 700+DPS with SPR's in the lows often. Well then I want to see THIER setup so I can mock it for how fail it is. Because no one flys a passive tanked rail ship that is going to do any thing close to 700 DPS at a range that you would use rails at without getting caught with thier pants down from having no tracking at the closer ranges. Especially a Hype with no tracking bonus. NO MWD? how do you control range? You are going to fail somewhere in that setup. You don't setup a rail ship for uber PWNAGE type of damage. You set it up for range and then hope you can get some respectable DPS out of it for fleet ranges.
Anyone that actually flys in PvP regularly knows EFT only tells half the story. How well a setup works on TQ is the real meat and potatoes.
That's all very nice, but that isn't what you said in the post I was replying to. You asked for a SPR passive tanked ship with 700 dps, and I posted one. It's not my fault if you don't know how to communicate clearly and meant something else.
Quote:
Because no one flys a passive tanked rail ship that is going to do any thing close to 700 DPS at a range that you would use rails at without getting caught with thier pants down from having no tracking at the closer ranges.
Nobody is going to fly ANY ship that does 700 dps from guns without close-range ammo. Complaining that I used CNAM is just stupid, and has nothing to do with passive shield tanking.
Quote:
NO MWD? how do you control range?
Maybe you should pay more attention before making stupid posts? This was very obviously a discussion of a MISSION setup (since the poster in question stated very clearly that buffer tanks are better for PvP), and last time I checked, you can't use MWDs in missions.
Quote:
You don't setup a rail ship for uber PWNAGE type of damage. You set it up for range and then hope you can get some respectable DPS out of it for fleet ranges.
Sure you do. The setups for long range fleet fights and close-range pwnage are exactly identical: a full rack of the largest guns, and 3x damage mods. If you need to engage something up close, you load close-range ammo and kill it.
Of course like I said above, complaining about the CNAM is just stupid when you asked for 700 gun dps. NO ship is going to do 700 gun dps from anything over point-blank range, which makes that fact completely irrelevant to a discussion of passive shield tanking.
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2008.09.03 05:35:00 -
[49]
pve = who cares
pvp. shield tanks are next to useless. not only are the ships that use them inferior(any fc's here who would rather have a torp raven over a mega?) + to run a shield tank u use med slots so no takle (webs ponit etc) or mwd's and you pwn your shields by putting points, mwd's and webs on.
and another thing, it also makes rr difficult. so you should stick or focus towards one in your fleets.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.03 05:54:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/09/2008 05:54:51
Originally by: arbiter reborn
pvp. shield tanks are next to useless. not only are the ships that use them inferior(any fc's here who would rather have a torp raven over a mega?)
Yes. Any small-gang FC would rather have a torp Raven by a HUGE margin, since it puts out more dps (with 2x neuts even) and doesn't have to deal with the pathetic range problems of the Mega. For larger fleets, a cruise Raven (anti-support) or Rokh (fleet sniper) are better in every way than a rail Mega.
Quote:
+ to run a shield tank u use med slots so no takle (webs ponit etc) or mwd's and you pwn your shields by putting points, mwd's and webs on.
1) Passive buffer tanks can easily fit MWD + point, and webs are kind of optional when most shield tankers are designed to fight from outside of web range.
2) In gangs, you have dedicated tacklers. You should try using them.
3) Armor tanks have the exact same problem. 3x damage mods require the same 3x tank slots that you claim would cripple a shield tank, and those are even more mandatory in PvP then a web/point.
Quote:
and another thing, it also makes rr difficult. so you should stick or focus towards one in your fleets.
Finally something you are correct on, you should focus on one type of tank in a RR fleet. However, shield tanking is just as good a choice as armor tanking for that job.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.09.03 06:26:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Pottsey on 03/09/2008 06:38:13
Cloora said "wow... how ignorant are you?
You show me ANY Railgun setup that has SPRs in the lows AND does 700DPS WITHOUT DRONES and I will show you an Ibis that can tank a DDD."
I am not the ignorant one, it's my main ship that I have been flying for months, in fact I had been using it for hours before I posted.
Kronos
High
x4 425mm Railgun T2 (Navy Anti Matter)
x3 tractor beams
Mids
x2 Dread Invul Fields (I guess 2 single hardners would be better but I perfew this)
x2 Large Shield Extenders
Low
x3 Mag Field Stabs T2
x2 PDS
X2 SPR's (Though been thinking about getting the two cap implants and useing x3 SPR'S)
Rigs
x2 Core Defence fields T2.
693 to 809 DPS depending on overheating. Range 36 op with 30falloff, I have long range ammo as well but its rarely needed. Normally I am in a gang with a afk ship to boost hitpoints and HP regen further along with speed and other stuff.
Cloora said " Listen, the poster I was replying to was talking like they fly this magical railgun ship that does 700+DPS with SPR's in the lows often."
That's because I do fly it often as it's my main PvE ship. As I already said and Merin Ryskin pointed out you don't use SPR's for PvP ships. My PvP ship is very different as I posted it above.
So now its your turn to show me your Ibis that can tank a DDD. I guess my ship could work for PvP with a few change's, extender rigs, swap rigs from T2 to T1, swap dread mods to T2, swap SPR to PDS. It could make a decent sniper with a buffer tank that regens slowly. But really a Mega or Hyper would work better a a Kronos is to costly.
____
Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation
(www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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velmistr Ecco
Caldari
InNova Tech Inc
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.09.03 07:16:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Pottsey
Cloora said " Listen, the poster I was replying to was talking like they fly this magical railgun ship that does 700+DPS with SPR's in the lows often."
So now its your turn to show me your Ibis that can tank a DDD.
Quote:
Weirdtopia > i need help in eve
Bloodspoon > ...you installed eve?
Weirdtopia > ya 14 day trial
Bloodspoon > did you unistall WoW
Weirdtopia > no
Bloodspoon > then i can't help ya
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velmistr Ecco
Caldari
InNova Tech Inc
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.09.03 07:37:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Pottsey
"That's an interesting assertion. How would you apply it to, say, a Megathron?"
Not too sure it's better than an amour tank but it does work.
7 neut blasters T2. 3 damage mods and 4 PDS for a HP buffer and cap, perhaps 3 pds and 1 DCU. Then fit 1 microwarp, web, invul field and shield extender or no web and 2 shield extenders in the mids. As your in a gang you then get a 10 to 15% further shield HP boost. If you have the isk use T1 extender rigs.
You end up with a 1000 ish dps output, faster than a plate amour tank, a 20 to 30k shield buffer that regens. Plus most people think your an amour tanked so hit you for thermal/kinetic.
Useless solo but in a gang its works well.
Would it look like this:
[Megathron, Pottsey's PvP shield tank]
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Ogre II x5
?
I have serious cpu problems with this megathron. Even this setup needs 1% cpu implant - but it is extremely cheap (implant).
90k ehp (em 54.7 th 51 kin 63.3 expl 69.4, 21k shield hp), 909 dps (no drones, skills lvl5 as i lack large hybrid skill at all), 1213 m/s (max speed). All numbers without gang and with lvl5 relevant skills.
But I like to learn something about shield tanking ships i thought they can only armour tank.
Quote:
Weirdtopia > i need help in eve
Bloodspoon > ...you installed eve?
Weirdtopia > ya 14 day trial
Bloodspoon > did you unistall WoW
Weirdtopia > no
Bloodspoon > then i can't help ya
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test234567
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Posted - 2008.09.03 10:48:00 -
[54]
Faction fitted t2 rigged ships that would melt in seconds in pvp are clearly what he meant when asking for a 700 dps spr tanked rail ship
NOT
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.09.03 10:55:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Shield-tanked ships with SPRs are F-A-I-L. They do no damage.
Since pure tanking is worthless even in PvE (and utterly worthless in PvP), well, don't do it.
The only exception here is a vulture for bait-tanking.
Or vulture for even sniping (cld possibly get away with 1 or even two spr's).
That said vulture isnt excactly a pvp extraordinaire and is best sitting at a pos yawning..
otherwise what he said ;)
Proudly annoying FC's since 2007
Originally by: Sherrif Jones
*ding ding!*
Wrangler: Hello and w-
*ding ding!*
Wrangler: Damn nanowhiners...*goes back to reading*
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.03 11:08:00 -
[56]
Originally by: test234567
Faction fitted t2 rigged ships that would melt in seconds in pvp are clearly what he meant when asking for a 700 dps spr tanked rail ship
NOT
I guess people were misled by his saying "ANY setup".
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.09.03 11:57:00 -
[57]
Tanking is overrated.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.03 12:08:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/09/2008 12:08:58
Originally by: arbiter reborn
pvp. shield tanks are next to useless. not only are the ships that use them inferior(any fc's here who would rather have a torp raven over a mega?)
Yes. Any small-gang FC would rather have a torp Raven by a HUGE margin, since it puts out more dps (with 2x neuts even) and doesn't have to deal with the pathetic range problems of the Mega. For larger fleets, a cruise Raven (anti-support) or Rokh (fleet sniper) are better in every way than a rail Mega.
This. Well, no idea about larger fights, but torp Raven is so much better for BS spanking then a blaster Mega in anything that isn't solo or two people, I really wonder how can people possibly say the Mega is better.
No DPS loss from range issues, no DPS loss due to transversal issues before you slow down, actually selectable damage types, etc. I really don't understand how can people be so silly. The only thing a Mega can do a bit better is soloing, and soloing in a BS is rare at best.
Given how I prefer armour tankers (and turrets), I'd personally take a Geddon/Abbadon over a Mega any time of the day. Hugely better performance at range, ability to fire up to 40km and cause instant damage, and awesome DPS output at much better ranges then a Megathron does with competitive DPS up close.
The Mega's strong point is impressive EFT numbers. However, when I look at who is doing most of the melting in gangs, it's actually Geddons ;)
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Quote:
+ to run a shield tank u use med slots so no takle (webs ponit etc) or mwd's and you pwn your shields by putting points, mwd's and webs on.
3) Armor tanks have the exact same problem. 3x damage mods require the same 3x tank slots that you claim would cripple a shield tank, and those are even more mandatory in PvP then a web/point.
Exactly.
If you are looking for a gank fit, that means either 3 (6-lowslot ships) or 4 (out of 7) lows to tank with, because you need three damage mods (unless you've got a specific fit/role outside of DPS). Slot for slot, armour tanks generally get slightly better effective HP (on resist-unbonused ships non-Caldari ships), but you can devote more slots to a shield buffer without sacrificing DPS even on traditionally armour tanked ships.
Let's look, for instance, at a Hurricane.
Shield buffer (2 mids + 1 low) : 40866 effective HP
Armour buffer (3 lows) : 45237 effective HP
Shield buffer (3 mids + 1 low) : 48075 effective HP
Armour buffer (4 lows - sacrifices DPS): 52440 effective HP
Clearly, if raw damage output + buffer is the order of the day, a shield buffer serves your purposes better. Of course, you might say it sacrifices a bit much in the way of usability to do so as you sacrifice all tackle plus a utility mid (and you're probably right). In the case of a AC Hurricane, I'd probably agree - but fact remains a shield tank has the option of fitting a better buffer+gank mix.
However, if you're not fitting projectile rigs, you have the option to fit cheap resist rigs (9-10M for three rigs) and do a better job. If you're building a arty Hurricane which doesn't need a web in the first place (and has empty rig slots too as you cant really fit projectile rigs with any buffer), it's really better shield tanked. You simply cannot fit a 1600mm RT in addition to arties, so you have to go with a 800mm.
Hurricane - Artillery, shield buffer (2 mids+ 1 low ) = 40,686 effective HP
Hurricane - Artillery, shield buffer (2 mids+ 1 low + resist rigs) = 46,225 effective HP
Hurricane - Artillery, shield buffer (2 mids+ 1 low + extenders) = 50,835 effective HP
vs
Hurricane - Artillery, armour tank (3 lows) = 39,173 effective HP
Hurricane - Artillery, armour tank (3 lows + resist rigs*) = 45,074 effective HP
Hurricane - Artillery, armour tank (3 lows + trimarks) = 49,443 effective HP
*Mind you, resist rigs are pointless, they cost preety much the same as trimarks.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint |
Cautet
Precision Engineering
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Posted - 2008.09.03 15:43:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Cautet on 03/09/2008 15:44:31
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/09/2008 12:08:58
Originally by: arbiter reborn
pvp. shield tanks are next to useless. not only are the ships that use them inferior(any fc's here who would rather have a torp raven over a mega?)
Yes. Any small-gang FC would rather have a torp Raven by a HUGE margin, since it puts out more dps (with 2x neuts even) and doesn't have to deal with the pathetic range problems of the Mega. For larger fleets, a cruise Raven (anti-support) or Rokh (fleet sniper) are better in every way than a rail Mega.
This. Well, no idea about larger fights, but torp Raven is so much better for BS spanking then a blaster Mega in anything that isn't solo or two people, I really wonder how can people possibly say the Mega is better.
No DPS loss from range issues, no DPS loss due to transversal issues before you slow down, actually selectable damage types, etc. I really don't understand how can people be so silly. The only thing a Mega can do a bit better is soloing, and soloing in a BS is rare at best.
Given how I prefer armour tankers (and turrets), I'd personally take a Geddon/Abbadon over a Mega any time of the day. Hugely better performance at range, ability to fire up to 40km and cause instant damage, and awesome DPS output at much better ranges then a Megathron does with competitive DPS up close.
The Mega's strong point is impressive EFT numbers. However, when I look at who is doing most of the melting in gangs, it's actually Geddons ;)
Reality is (mainly due to your earlier point about RR for gangs) that FC would prefer a Mega to a Raven in most circumstances for close range/small gang pvp. Though of course a Geddon would be nice - although they have their own downsides also - no BS sized ship is perfect.
On the transversal side - you are fogetting instead of transversal Raven has *2* seperate factors that decrease damage - speed and sig size, rather than the *1* - transversal. Although arguably range can be included which balances it all out. Also, Raven isn't going to damage anything smaller than a BS (although it can neut it)
For long range pvp effective range is 150-170km, and Megathrons perform exceptionaly well at this range. Rokh has the least damage of all the sniping BS within the normal range of engagement. Again though, arguably best choice is an Amarr BS, the Apoc.
Mega is a very flexible all round ship which is why people like it so much.
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Nora Baiden
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Posted - 2008.09.03 15:44:00 -
[60]
Im sad to admit, im starting to feel the same way, that shields are just better.
And im only flying armor boats.
would be nice if those buffers didnt screw up my speed and repaired themselves, not even going to adventure on how much dps they can take :/
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