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tla s'hpyt
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Posted - 2008.08.25 07:49:00 -
[1]
Currently I believe the races are a bit unbalanced, but since I haven't done everything in game I'd like to ask some other people who have experience in different areas and see what others think. Most of my experience has been with caldari/minmatar and most of my pvp experience has been in fleet battles or alliance warfare. So I figured I'd post here and get some peoples input on how the 4 races stack up against each other. I figured I'd compair the 3 main ways to play the game; fleet/sov pvp, solo/small gang pvp, pve. Also I have tried to base the ranking on the general value of a race (not what 1 elite guy/group can do) and an average of all the usefull ships of that race in that area combined.
pve may seem a small area compared to the other two but you should consider all forms of pve in it. Such as small gangs doing exploration (logistics support?), low lvl missions and vessels of that size, high end missioning vessels (command ships, marauders), exploration itself (cov ops), mining.
Here is what I currently believe the balance to be
rankingpvefleetsolo
bestcaldaricaldariminmatar
2ndamarramarrgallente
3rdgallentegallenteamarr
4thminmatarminmatarcaldari
This may need adjusting which is why I'm here to ask what people with different experience think (particularly amarr/gallente).
The reason I put caldari top in fleet is that while they aren't the strongest fleet snipers/tacklers/capitals they have best logistics(by far when u count osprey and their use in pos rep) extremely strong ew as well as a good selection of cheap noob fleet ships (blackbird).
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Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
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Posted - 2008.08.25 09:51:00 -
[2]
You cant really do a analysis on what race is 'best' at any given activity as there's a massive amount of variety within the races various ship classes. Caldari are typically strong for PVE but within PVP its all situational.
Also, PVP gangs are almost always mixed racial gangs - e.g a effective crusier gang might be Vaga, Vaga, Falcon, Curse. Or Vaga, Rapier, Falcon, Sacrilidge. Mixed groups tend to complement each other - its unusual to see gangs of just one racial group (e.g Rapier x 4) even in typicaly RP'd environments such as Factional Warfare.
Trying to argue which race is 'best' is just not really viable.
C.
 Originally by: Tarminic
Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.08.25 12:47:00 -
[3]
If all the races were the same eve'd be a boring game, no?
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.08.25 13:09:00 -
[4]
which ship classes did you compare? what weight was each ship class given ?
what were the criteria for PvE/Fleet/Solo ?
I can spit out such a table too and call it ballanced and we could argue till hell freezes if I am right or wrong.
your post is seriously incomplete.
--- SIG ---
CSM: your support is needed ! |
Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.25 13:22:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
If all the races were the same eve'd be a boring game, no?
I'd say the main problem with that is that the race ships are already too similar and getting more so. The highly specialised tends to be seen as "overpowered" in certain situations and get nerfed. When its reduced to tank+spank at certain specific scenarios its pretty easy to compare and see who is best.
Vote against the nano nerf! |
Batolemaeus
Caldari
Batolemaeus Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.25 15:50:00 -
[6]
Actually, from my point of view all races are currently very balanced. I can't think of a ship that is currently totally uber, all have specialities and tradeoffs.
Gallente have some of the most versatile ships (Dominix, yes, Ishtar too), some of the most damaging closerange ships (Thorax, Ranis, Mega, Deimos) and let's not forget the IttyV. They even have a useful assaultfrig, the Ishkur.
Amarr feature the battlebananas and high tracking pulselasers on midrange, they have one of the highest alpha, good sniping ships. They also have the best logistic ship for fleets and the most fearsome capitals. The Revelation is imo the most versatile (haha) and devastating dread. The Arbitrator is pure flying sexyness, the Damnation is pretty evil. The zealot can do some pretty fun things, the recons can do evil things to turret ships (yes, you can still solo bs with them).
Caldari have the best ecm and some good sniping ships, the shield pendant of the Guardian for fleets, a good capital line, although the Phoenix does only do well against pos and things that stand still. The Kitsune is flying awesomeness, the Raven fearsome in close range (although less tanking than the Mega), Rokh a good fleetship. The hacs are a bit meh, although the Eagle is the best fleet support griefing ships currently in game.
Minmatar is the only race i do not know too well (the only one i can't fly at all), but they do have the best t1 frigate, very good recons. The Hurricane is a fearsome opponent, the Vaga is the best roaming ship currently. Their capitals lack a bit, but this is easily countered by their supreme roaming abilities. Scimitars are fast and can work from range, Vagas, even their Commandships can go fast. The bs lineup is probably the worst currently, but everything that resolves around hit&run works perfectly.
I'd say the races are deliberately "unbalanced" in the sense of "different". Matar have lost their uniqueness a bit because others are more efficient at nanoing, but that will probably change soon.
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.25 16:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Batolemaeus
I'd say the races are deliberately "unbalanced" in the sense of "different". Matar have lost their uniqueness a bit because others are more efficient at nanoing, but that will probably change soon.
Well, the problem with any argument about nanos (especially here in game dev) is that nano is dead. It is no longer really a viable tactic, even for Minnies, if the nerf goes through in its current form.
-Liang
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I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.
-- Mahatma Gandhi |
tla s'hpyt
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Posted - 2008.08.25 23:42:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
If all the races were the same eve'd be a boring game, no?
I don't think they need to be the same I think they just need to be balanced. having ships that work completely differently than the other races are good and different races being good in different area's are also good. You just need to have it overall balanced so one race is not better at more things than another race.
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
which ship classes did you compare? what weight was each ship class given ?
what were the criteria for PvE/Fleet/Solo ?
I can spit out such a table too and call it ballanced and we could argue till hell freezes if I am right or wrong.
your post is seriously incomplete.
-pve is any activity where you are not fighting players (mining, exploration, hauling, missions)
-small/solo pvp is where your ship is multi specializing rather than focusing on 1 task (such as a tempest with tackle, nos/neuts, turrets and tank). You may have a few people working together but the ship is capable of fighting enemies and winning on it's own.
-fleet pvp/alliance warfare is where ships specialize in a certain role (tackler, sniper, ecm, logistics) they may have other modules for different things and be
these definitions probably aren't complete as you could argue a ship falls in both fleet and solo pvp but this is the best I could think of. If you have one better feel free to say it that's part of what this thread is for.
I try to place the value of how useful a ship is and how many of them can be used (a good logistics is usefull for fleets but not nearly as useful as a sniper bs so a good sniper bs is weighted more)
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Actually, from my point of view all races are currently very balanced. I can't think of a ship that is currently totally uber, all have specialities and tradeoffs.......
I'd have to agree that the balance between the races is relatively close and more often than not the skills (sp & real skills) will determine the battle. I do however think there is a slight imbalance toward caldari being stronger and minmatar being weaker (not enough to make 1 race useless but still enough to post about).
Lastly the main reason I posted this was to get input from people who have experience where I don't to help me (and anyone else reading) a better understanding of how the races stack against each other. I said in main post I need input on gallente and amarr as my only experience is seeing them flown by others if you think that something in the table needs to be moved around just say it and give your reasons.
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