Originally by: Haraldhardrade

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Originally by: kor anon

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1: Exactly right, atheists are just afraid to accept that there are somethings that cannot be explained.

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Like what, people walking on water, burning bushes, people waking up from the dead? Please elaborate.

ALl of the above

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No proof that god exists, no proof that he doesn't. Live with it, there are always things that we cannot fully know for certain. And who are YOU to judge which is right and which is wrong. My arguement is that we don't know, we may never know. I have learn't to accept that have you?

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I judge from evidence, not because some illiterate ignoramus had a personal revelation thousands of year ago.

Evidence to disprove god, where is it?

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No i dont believe in angels and the like, but i can never know for certain.

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Why would anyone belive in anything that cant be proved?

Oh you mean the idea of oxygen in the air, 2000 years ago it couldn't be proven either way but it didn't stop it from existing now did it?

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Oh really where were our morals before religion? Let me see, let me see, oh yeah there wasn't. And all the countries today whether you like it or not, had a religious background, and those morals they uphold today are a result from religious belief.

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What? Are you sayng that humans took great pleasure in killing, stealing, whoring until the day when god stepped in and said 'ok you got to cut that shit out'?

You dont have to be religius, or even heard of religion, to have emphaty.

Not reall tbh. I say we have always enjoyed killing, raping, stealing, etc. Regardless of what religion we follow, but things like the ten commandments have helped put a damper on to these all too human execesses.

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As to the examples above so the **** what? Last time I checked we did those things regardless of religion. Remember ******, he killed 11M people because of Eugenics because black people, jews, and poles, were considered untermenshen. So by your logic science must be evil and disgusting etc, because science was used to approve atrocities.

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****** was a roman-cahtolic. Just google ****** and catholic or church, and you will find dusins of pictures of him and his vatican buddies. Your eugenics argument is a strawman, you might as well argue that car makers are wrong for inventing cars that are used in bank robberies or hit and runs. Your arguments are not coherent.

The car bit seems to be your arguement it seems. YOU said religion is bad because it sometimes approves of naughty things. So does science, does that make it bad?

So what ****** was a RC, i was born a RC I have no genocidal tendancies. My point is that he used science, not religion, to approve of his policies.

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The us government with the patriot act, the plethora of new laws in UK regarding surveillance, the idea of imposing curfew. that to name a few.

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Are those right leaning politics? Seems to remember that leaft leaning Stalin was also good at surveilance.

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Originally by: kor anon

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Like what, people walking on water, burning bushes, people waking up from the dead? Please elaborate.

ALl of the above

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Evidence to disprove god, where is it?

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Why would anyone belive in anything that cant be proved?

Oh you mean the idea of oxygen in the air, 2000 years ago it couldn't be proven either way but it didn't stop it from existing now did it?

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Not reall tbh. I say we have always enjoyed killing, raping, stealing, etc. Regardless of what religion we follow, but things like the ten commandments have helped put a damper on to these all too human execesses.

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The car bit seems to be your arguement it seems. YOU said religion is bad because it sometimes approves of naughty things. So does science, does that make it bad?

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So what ****** was a RC, i was born a RC I have no genocidal tendancies. My point is that he used science, not religion, to approve of his policies

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Stalin wasn't a lefty, if he was he would have given up power like he was supposed to. Under him the USSR was not a communist state, It was a top down autocratic goverment

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Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia

Originally by: Haraldhardrade

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Originally by: kor anon

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Like what, people walking on water, burning bushes, people waking up from the dead? Please elaborate.

ALl of the above

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I know walking on water is against the laws of physics, the same goes for rising from the dead. Are you going to ask me to prove it

Those laws are not laws but theories. Just because many things follow a principle does that necessarily mean that all things must follow? Or can there be something that does not obey your rules?

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Evidence to disprove god, where is it?

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We are going round in circles here.

Of course, and thats my point im trying to get into your head, we can never be sure!

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Why would anyone belive in anything that cant be proved?

Oh you mean the idea of oxygen in the air, 2000 years ago it couldn't be proven either way but it didn't stop it from existing now did it?

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Massive strawman. If anything, your example refutes your post as we know more today than we did 2000 years ago. If anything, modern science would increase the chances of finding prof of gods existance, but as we become smarter, the chances of proving god decreases.

Maybe in the future we will invent a device that will reveal god/ or not. I say again we can never be 100% sure

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Not reall tbh. I say we have always enjoyed killing, raping, stealing, etc. Regardless of what religion we follow, but things like the ten commandments have helped put a damper on to these all too human execesses.

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Tell that to all the people who were forced to choose between converting to Christianity/Islam etc or having their head cut off. If anything, murder rates have been on the rise through out history.

So if we have been throwing of the shackles of religion, and the murder rates are increasing. I wonder what that could possibly mean. (I don't nessecarily belive that murder rates are increasing, I just want to use your opinion)

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The car bit seems to be your arguement it seems. YOU said religion is bad because it sometimes approves of naughty things. So does science, does that make it bad?

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Because religion tells you that you are good for killing infidels, and that their lives are not worth anything. Science does *not* tell you that you must go out and kill people, religion does. Science does not care about your sex life, religion does.

Do all religions promote that?, I dont think so. Originally the Christian faith was meant to be good. You know with the good parables. Dont hurt anyone, turn the other cheek etc. Are you saying these things are bad, are you really? My point is anyone can interpret anything to suit their own drives and desires. But I think were crashing head because we are not totally talking about the same thing. I am talking about religion as the ideal, that we should be good etc or face the consequences. but you are talking about organised religion, and I must say organised religion is inherently evil, as the people in control can warp those good ideals into something repulsive

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So what ****** was a RC, i was born a RC I have no genocidal tendancies. My point is that he used science, not religion, to approve of his policies

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Are you a roman catholic? Are you not ashamed, when the pope say that aids are bad, but condoms are worse?

Born a RC not one now. I was never ashamed because those people never spoke for me. I dont give a flying **** what the pope thinks, he is just a man. He has no 'powers'. And I say each man can have his own opinion. How can you judge a whole group of people by one sad little fool?

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Originally by: kor anon

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Those laws are not laws but theories. Just because many things follow a principle does that necessarily mean that all things must follow? Or can there be something that does not obey your rules?

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We are going round in circles here.

Of course, and thats my point im trying to get into your head, we can never be sure!

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Maybe in the future we will invent a device that will reveal god/ or not. I say again we can never be 100% sure

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So if we have been throwing of the shackles of religion, and the murder rates are increasing.

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Do all religions promote that?, I dont think so. Originally the Christian faith was meant to be good. You know with the good parables. Dont hurt anyone, turn the other cheek etc. Are you saying these things are bad, are you really?

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My point is anyone can interpret anything to suit their own drives and desires. But I think were crashing head because we are not totally talking about the same thing. I am talking about religion as the ideal, that we should be good etc or face the consequences. but you are talking about organised religion, and I must say organised religion is inherently evil, as the people in control can warp those good ideals into something repulsive

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Born a RC not one now. I was never ashamed because those people never spoke for me. I dont give a flying **** what the pope thinks, he is just a man. He has no 'powers'. And I say each man can have his own opinion. How can you judge a whole group of people by one sad little fool?

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Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia

Originally by: Haraldhardrade

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Originally by: kor anon

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Those laws are not laws but theories. Just because many things follow a principle does that necessarily mean that all things must follow? Or can there be something that does not obey your rules?

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No. Thoese are laws allright.

By whose authority?

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We are going round in circles here.

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Maybe in the future we will invent a device that will reveal god/ or not. I say again we can never be 100% sure

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You mean a god machine, press the big red button and a magic compass will guide you to god? Thats not much of an argument btw.

being sarcastic

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So if we have been throwing of the shackles of religion, and the murder rates are increasing.

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We havent, unfortunatly. But use secular nations as an example, they are doing much better than their theocratic counterparts. Example is Europe vs the muslim world.

Oh like the last superpower the US right, then one that is governed by puritans? ok

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Do all religions promote that?, I dont think so. Originally the Christian faith was meant to be good. You know with the good parables. Dont hurt anyone, turn the other cheek etc. Are you saying these things are bad, are you really?

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Jesus says love all. Old testamanet says burn.

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My point is anyone can interpret anything to suit their own drives and desires. But I think were crashing head because we are not totally talking about the same thing. I am talking about religion as the ideal, that we should be good etc or face the consequences. but you are talking about organised religion, and I must say organised religion is inherently evil, as the people in control can warp those good ideals into something repulsive

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How do you interpet this

22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the ***** in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.



You forget that the bible was written 2000 years ago, when adultry was a capital offence. I agree that the teachings in the bible need to be re adjusted

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Born a RC not one now. I was never ashamed because those people never spoke for me. I dont give a flying **** what the pope thinks, he is just a man. He has no 'powers'. And I say each man can have his own opinion. How can you judge a whole group of people by one sad little fool?

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Because according to roman catholosism the pope is the link between man and god?

Good thing I dont follow it then

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Originally by: kor anon

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By whose authority?

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being sarcastic[:roll]

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Oh like the last superpower the US right, then one that is governed by puritans? ok

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Jesus says love all. Old testamanet says burn.

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You forget that the bible was written 2000 years ago, when adultry was a capital offence. I agree that the teachings in the bible need to be re adjusted

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Because according to roman catholosism the pope is the link between man and god?

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Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia

Originally by: Haraldhardrade

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Edited by: Haraldhardrade on 26/08/2008 10:44:49

Originally by: kor anon

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By whose authority?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics

Yes I am a physics student. But the laws have been based on current experiments and situations on earth. What I am saying is, that there may be things that can break those 'laws'.

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being sarcastic[:roll]

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No, I wasn't.

But I was

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Oh like the last superpower the US right, then one that is governed by puritans? ok

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The US still have seperation of church and state. The US does not have a ban on 'immoral' things like violence and sex on tv.

Neither did the UK 40 years ago, so whats your point?

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Jesus says love all. Old testamanet says burn.

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The ony way to salvation is through Jesus according to the NT, if not, you will burn. I.e love me or burn.

Thats the opinions of hard line christians. Jesus never ever said you would go to hell for not loving him. Infact he actually says that aslong as you lead a good life you will have a place in heaven

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You forget that the bible was written 2000 years ago, when adultry was a capital offence. I agree that the teachings in the bible need to be re adjusted

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Then it's obvious morals dont come from religion.

Right. thats old testament again. NT goes against this.

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Originally by: snaike

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Religious belief is totally and 100% based on faith. No amount of logical reasoning can disturb the faith that these true believers hold. The simple fact is that God, by definition, cannot be proven. If God were to reveal himself to us then there would no longer be a need for faith, as it would be like people proclaiming that they don't believe england exists. If God reveals himself, then we no longer have the free will to chose our beliefs ourselves, and all of religion is totally founded on free will. Therefore arguments between the religious and the on-religious will always be annoyingly circular as, for religious believers, faith is more important than proof.

I don't believe in the God of the classical theism, however I do believe I have (so far) lead a good life. I don't bring harm or misery to people, I always try and respect other peoples belief and way of life. All I do is question the world I live in. If such questioning earns me eternal damnation, well then such a God is unworthy of my worship anyway.
This is the problem, free thinking and critical thinking seem to have been made 'evils' by fervant religious believers. If God wishes for our blind obediance, then is such a God really worthy of your worship?

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Originally by: kor anon

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Originally by: snaike

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Religious belief is totally and 100% based on faith. No amount of logical reasoning can disturb the faith that these true believers hold. The simple fact is that God, by definition, cannot be proven. If God were to reveal himself to us then there would no longer be a need for faith, as it would be like people proclaiming that they don't believe england exists. If God reveals himself, then we no longer have the free will to chose our beliefs ourselves, and all of religion is totally founded on free will. Therefore arguments between the religious and the on-religious will always be annoyingly circular as, for religious believers, faith is more important than proof.

I don't believe in the God of the classical theism, however I do believe I have (so far) lead a good life. I don't bring harm or misery to people, I always try and respect other peoples belief and way of life. All I do is question the world I live in. If such questioning earns me eternal damnation, well then such a God is unworthy of my worship anyway.
This is the problem, free thinking and critical thinking seem to have been made 'evils' by fervant religious believers. If God wishes for our blind obediance, then is such a God really worthy of your worship?

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I want your children seriously. and just because I cant help it SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIKE!

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Originally by: Eran Laude

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I think the movie can be summed up in one spectacular pun:

Shitegeist

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Originally by: kor anon

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Originally by: Haraldhardrade

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You talk a lot about proof. Yet I haven't seen any evidence that can support this claim.

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The proof is all around us. Name one country/ civilisation that hasn't been based on blood. Can you? I didn't think so

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Originally by: Amoxin

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My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...

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Originally by: Akita T

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Richard Dawkings reads his hatemail

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Originally by: Atomos Darksun

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The founders of religion had to be the smartest men in the history of man, because it has been the most successful thing at controlling the masses, not to mention that thanks to it's nature it's completely unfalsifiable.

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