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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Kael Choquae
Minmatar 0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.08.26 16:14:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kael Choquae on 26/08/2008 16:22:36 Edited by: Kael Choquae on 26/08/2008 16:16:02 Hey folks
I've just bought this new GPU (my old one fried playing eve :-/) and since i got this card at seemingly random intervals while playing eve the screen freezes with artifacts and occasionally the VPU recoverer will pop up and save the day, but most often it will eventually go to black and then come back as a pin-striped teal and purple screen. The sound meanwhile either gets stuck in a loop, or continues playing until black screen and then pops off. From what I can tell the rest of the comp is dead too (TS doesn't work, my little G15 LCD display doesn't respond etc.)
The one interesting thing to take note of is that since I've tried running eve full screen (I usually run eve windowed with eve launcher to position the screen like its full) I've gotten no crashes. This however is extremely annoying as my color calibration doesn't work in fullscreen and it makes access to other apps like browsers an messaging an unbelievable pain.
Edit: whoops forgot to say running eve premium and tried different graphics settings to no avail
Anywho my specs:
Sapphire radeon hd 4870 Intel D975xbx2 mobo Core 2 2.13 ghz windows MCE service pack 2 Enermax liberty ELT500awt PSU
Edit: bah been a while since I've posted sorry for the incorrect signature
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Elliot Reid
Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.08.26 16:54:00 -
[2]
What drivers are you using? I bought a 4850 the other day and am running the latest Catalyst 8.8 drivers and have had no issues with EVE or any game. Could be a faulty card. _______________________________________
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Kael Choquae
Minmatar 0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.08.26 17:10:00 -
[3]
drivers are the latest 8.8 and I don't think its a bad card because its only a problem with eve. I can run crysis fine for hours. |
Canadian1
Win Tech
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Posted - 2008.08.27 02:02:00 -
[4]
I'm using a 4870 with dual clients, dual monitors in window mode for the past two months with no problems. Have not upgraded to 8.8 driver yet, still using 8.6.
Settings: Premium Client 24-bit color 1024x768 Interval immediate cache size high Shadow quality off HDR off Hadware acceleration off
Make sure to file a bug report Here and maybe these might help.
Here
Here
Here
Hope it helps and GL
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Kael Choquae
Minmatar 0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.08.27 04:15:00 -
[5]
Hey mate thanks for the links but still no luck.
Setting interval to one does nothing. And the fan wasn't the problem either cuz i could have it running like a hurricane and the card temp was only 40 C and still the think would crash.
Also I've noticed that it has the largest tendency to crash if I log in and get to the character selection screen and then go use Firefox with eve open in the background. |
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CCP Tanis.
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Posted - 2008.08.27 09:27:00 -
[6]
I'd be leaning toward saying it's a driver, heat, or DirectX related problem. Generally speaking if it was a problem with a game engine you would be seeing artifacts and issues constantly rather than at random. having said that though be on the lookout for similarities in what is going on when it happens, like the firefox thing.
First things first I'd suggest you update or even re-install DirectX AND your graphics drivers. Being able to run other games fine does not mean that your drivers are fine. EVE gets updated several times a year, meaning it's running newer code that older drivers may not handle well where as Crysis does not have that problem so old drivers will generally work fine with it.
Also be sure that you do not have Anti-Aliasing enabled in the catalyst control center. Because EVE uses HDR and DirectX does not support HDR and AA at the same time it can cause problems if it is enabled.
Also, what setting are you running EVE with currently (copy over the info fromt eh graphics options tab in the esc menu if you can). It may help to try tuning down some of the settings a little bit to see if that has any effect.
Please post back and let us know if it works or not, there are other things you can try once the above has been done. ____________________________ I break things.
Tanis. Testing Lead EVE Online CCP Games
"GM Voodoo > That plan really straddles the fine line between genius and idiocy." "CCP Tanis. > And that differs from everything else I do how?" |
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forum mematar
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Posted - 2008.08.27 09:33:00 -
[7]
I have a HD4870 myself and using the newest drivers (8.8?) with the hotfix and havent had any troubles really.
Try applying the hotfix if you havent already? ---
http://stige.pingtimeout.net/evevids/ |
Kael Choquae
Minmatar 0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.08.27 20:23:00 -
[8]
Thanks for the suggestions, I tried the reinstall of the 8.8 drivers to no avail, I cant for the life of me figure out how to Reinstall Directx 9 because I have 9.0c and it refuses to install over it and I cant figure out how to uninstall it.
As for the AA thing I have it off in all ATI related stuff, but one thing it got me to thinking about is that my old card was a Nvidia and I at one point (with no success) I tried the nTune AA+HDR hack and I never uninstalled it cuz my GPU fried and now it refuses to run even to uninstall itself because it cant find a Nvidia card in my system (no duh), and I cant manually delete it because it keeps setting itself to read-only no matter what I do. However I doubt that nTune could still be effecting my comp because I turned off all the stuff related to it in MSCONFIG.
And about the hot fix I assume your referring to this one http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx. Its really quite well hidden and for a while the download links on their site refused to work. When I finally got it downloaded it threw a fit like I was downloading old drivers on top of newer ones. So I had to manually tell it to overwrite some stuff of the 8.8 drivers and it also made me uninstall the 8.8 CCC so it could put in its own one that claimed to be older. Anywho this didn't work either. Are you sure this hotfix is made for 8.8?
So I'm about to try using the 8.6 drivers and I'll post how that turns out in a bit. |
Kael Choquae
Minmatar 0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.08.27 21:32:00 -
[9]
Nope 8.6 drivers didn't help |
Elhina Novae
Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2008.08.28 00:13:00 -
[10]
As a hardware geek we can exclude that heat is the issue as ATI released their new series with 20% fan speed pre-set too not make it sound like a vacuum-cleaner. The GPU can take 100+ degrees on a 24/7 basis @ full load, but usually you shouldn't go much higher then 80 with a somewhat ventilated computer case.
As the dev said, uncheck Anti Aliasing, and don't use to much "bling bling" settings when playing eve it doesn't seem to like that...
I am running HD3870 myself and AA is a no-no for eve as i crash using that (only on eve) but AF x8 is no problem at all. ------------
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey ... There's an Amarr problem?
Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
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Kael Choquae
Minmatar 0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.08.28 04:16:00 -
[11]
Doh! forgot to list eve settings as requested.
Well here goes: Cash extreme, Shadow quality extreme, HDR/bloom High
However I still get crashes with shadows off and no HDR (didn't mess with the Cash but its not my comp running out of memory cuz i can have as little as like 20% mem usage when it crashes.)
So even though these are the highest settings, I could run them with my old setup (nvidia geforce 7950 gt) Perfectly on one client and passably enough on 2 clients or one in a fight with like 20 ppl. It would seem that a top-of-the-line card could at very least match the performance of a 2 generations older card.
Also I'm not sure how much the eve in game graphics settings could matter with this issue because I can get it to crash when its at the character selection screen. |
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CCP Tanis.
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Posted - 2008.08.28 10:33:00 -
[12]
You're right that the cache size should not affect crashing unless you're running out of memory, in most cases anyway.
As for the old Nvidia SW, I'm not so sure it may not be affecting this. I had an old Nvidia card, switched to an ATI HD 2900 and still had the Nvidia settings overriding some of the ATI ones. Unfortunately I cannot recall how I sorted it out, but I think that removing the Nvidia stuff entirely may be worth a second look.
Have you tried disabling premium content entirely? That would certainly help us narrow down the list of possible culprits a bit. Give it a try for a few days and see if anything changes.
Also, check your other hardware drivers, particularly your sound drivers.. see if any are in need of updating. Your previous mention of sound getting stuck tells me it's worth eliminating that as a possible contributing factor.
Also check to see if any dump files are being generated. You can read about that here. ____________________________ I break things.
Tanis. Testing Lead EVE Online CCP Games
"GM Voodoo > That plan really straddles the fine line between genius and idiocy." "CCP Tanis. > And that differs from everything else I do how?" |
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Kael Choquae
Minmatar 0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.08.28 16:16:00 -
[13]
Well I tried disabling premium to no avail. And the sound drivers are are the newest available though my sound card is just some crappy onboard. And there is no dump in my documents\eve folder.
I think at the moment I have the crash worked out to only happen when I run eve windowed and I try to use peripherals in front of eve. It's run fine windowed so far if I never bring up any windows in front of it. However it does take a while for it to crash once I've gone elsewhere, its not like it crashes the second I alt tab out. |
Confliktus
Caldari Vagas Pharmaceuticals
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Posted - 2008.08.29 09:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: CCP Tanis. You're right that the cache size should not affect crashing unless you're running out of memory, in most cases anyway.
As for the old Nvidia SW, I'm not so sure it may not be affecting this. I had an old Nvidia card, switched to an ATI HD 2900 and still had the Nvidia settings overriding some of the ATI ones. Unfortunately I cannot recall how I sorted it out, but I think that removing the Nvidia stuff entirely may be worth a second look.
Have you tried disabling premium content entirely? That would certainly help us narrow down the list of possible culprits a bit. Give it a try for a few days and see if anything changes.
Also, check your other hardware drivers, particularly your sound drivers.. see if any are in need of updating. Your previous mention of sound getting stuck tells me it's worth eliminating that as a possible contributing factor.
Also check to see if any dump files are being generated. You can read about that here.
You can completely remove all the older driver remains using Driver Cleaner Pro after uninstalling the drivers trough the windows add/remove feature.
Reboot and its done, driver cleaner removes even the registry records of your old chipset.
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Aakito
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Posted - 2008.08.29 12:00:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Aakito on 29/08/2008 12:02:49 The radeon 4870 draws ~50 amps from the 12V rails under heavy load.
If your PSU is not up to scratch under that kind of amp load, then you will start to see a lot of artifacts and the card will reset due to the inbuilt VPU recovery.
Another issue with these cards is their default heatsink DOES NOT sit on top of the VRM, which means if your case isn't well ventilated and the ambient temp rises, the VRM will not be cooled effectively on air flow alone. It can heat to above 80C at which point it isn't effective and pulls more amps than the card uses. People have reported it can drain over 70 amps when its overheating.
I've had problems with my 4870 with my old 600W psu, now i'm running a Silverstone OP750 which gives 60 amps on the 12V rails. Definitely consider getting a good brand psu these days as all the new stuff draws so much power.
Edit: This card is awesome though, 1650 res, HDR, bloom, AF x16, max shadows and it doesn't drop below 80 fps in big fights. |
Confliktus
Caldari Vagas Pharmaceuticals
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Posted - 2008.08.29 12:40:00 -
[16]
Hmm both seem capable of handling the cards with relative ease.
Enermax
http://www.cluboc.net/reviews/power/enermax/ELT500AWT/index.htm
AC Input Universal 100-240VAC input Current rating 3.5A-7.5A Frequency 50Hz - 60Hz DC Output Rating +3.3V 28A 160W +5V 30A +12V1 22A 384W(32A) +12V2 22A +3.3V,+5V +12V1,+12V2 Combined 477.8W -12V 0.6A 22.2W +5Vsb 3A Total Power 500W Connector Configuration ETERNITY PAIR(SATA+4PMolex) 6 pairs(6+6) 8 pairs(8+8) PCI-E 2 2 FDD 1 2
Silverstone
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_spec.php?pno=op750&area=usa
Model No. SST-OP750 Max. DC Output 750W Load Range +3.3V 28A +5V 30A +12V 60A +5VSB 4.0A -12V 0.5A -5V -/-
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Aakito
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Posted - 2008.08.29 13:15:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Aakito on 29/08/2008 13:23:32 Edited by: Aakito on 29/08/2008 13:17:56 Link The combined 12V rails (2 rails) is rated at 32amps.
Independently each rail is meant to be able to provide 22 amps, but combined its not 100% effective so you don't get 44 amps but only 32. That's the difference in psu quality.
The 477W rating is combined both 12V rails and the 5V AND 3.3V rails. There's no way this PSU can run the 4870 effectively.
If you really want to see if your PSU can handle the load, run Furmark. It causes maximum shader and ram load, so 100% amp draw. The 4870 pulls 55 amps when i bench furmark. It rarely goes above 50 when running any game.
Edit: I've had problems with my 4870 for around 3 weeks, i've tried drivers, and all sort of tweaks thinking my 2x 12V 600W with 22amps each should be able to run it fine. Well, it doesn't. Getting some software to monitor power load clearly shows. Now with my silverstone op750, this card purrrs along all day long. |
Kael Choquae
Minmatar 0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.08.29 17:16:00 -
[18]
At Confliktus: I tried driver sweeper in safe mode to no success.
At Aakito: though I have seen other similar PSU's said not to run this GPU, mine is in fact certified by ATI to work with it. Nonetheless I tried Furmark on it and it runs fullscreen at 1680x1050 and stabilizes at about 70c and runs about 40 fps without MSAA and about 20 with MSAA set to 8x. Also though I understand crysis may be more efficient I can run crysis for hours on medium spec (occasionally crashes to desktop on high spec,) But I cant run eve in the character log in screen (does that screen even need 3d processing?) when it's windowed and I've brought any peripherals in front of it. That to me doesn't seem like any issue with stress power or overheating. |
Aakito
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Posted - 2008.08.31 08:48:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kael Choquae
At Aakito: though I have seen other similar PSU's said not to run this GPU, mine is in fact certified by ATI to work with it. Nonetheless I tried Furmark on it and it runs fullscreen at 1680x1050 and stabilizes at about 70c and runs about 40 fps without MSAA and about 20 with MSAA set to 8x. Also though I understand crysis may be more efficient I can run crysis for hours on medium spec (occasionally crashes to desktop on high spec,) But I cant run eve in the character log in screen (does that screen even need 3d processing?) when it's windowed and I've brought any peripherals in front of it. That to me doesn't seem like any issue with stress power or overheating.
Crashes to desktop (in crysis) on max setting but runs fine on medium... seems like your psu is being stressed to the max and just above it, can't deliver stable power anymore (fluctuation & ripple on the 12V rails). Do the stress test on furmark and if it can run for 1hr or so then its not your vid card or psu issue. If you see some artifacts, then crash, its definitely power related. This is a very common problem, especially since the 4800s have horrible heatsinks that don't cool the VRM (dont know what ATI was thinking), causing overdraw in amps when it overheats making many weaker psu to crap out.
GPU temp and VRM temp is totally different. You need to get Everest Ultimate, it can monitor a lot of sensors, including VRM temp and power draw. If your VRM is running above 70C, its no longer efficient.
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mechtech
Opinicus Operations
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Posted - 2008.09.01 19:13:00 -
[20]
I agree that it's the PSU or a bad card, doesn't seem to be a software problem.
You shouldn't be getting CTDs in either eve or crysis on high. It seems like it only CTDs when the card is under full load. Not all games are going to do this, which will make the problem look random, but I do know that eve pushes your GPU extremely hard (well you know, your old one fried). If you find a 3rd game that does this CTD thing, there is really no question that it's the hardware.
Also, ATI GPU recover is a hardware recovery tool, that shouldn't ever come up from software compatibility.
Turn on Vsynch in eve (cap it at 60fps, check it with control-f), and see if the problem reduces in frequency or stops. If it does, that means it's your PSU 100%. |
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Kael Choquae
Minmatar 0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.09.01 22:56:00 -
[21]
Well I've been playing more eve lately and I haven't had any troubles except for if I leave eve at the log in screen (which isn't pushing my card to the max i hope because its not even running 3d stuff at that point) and then run a browser with eve windowed in the background. As for crysis i think its a memory problem because when i run it on high its at about 95% ram usage before it dies. The rest of my computer isn't very top of the line so it makes sense that i cant run it on max.
I haven't gotten a chance to run Furmark for an hour yet, but still i would hope that ATI wouldn't be completely lying when they say certify that my PSU supports this card.
Regardless I'm just RMA-ing the card and getting a new comp while I'm at it (upgrading plus coming to terms with the fact that my computer building abilities are not up to snuff.)
anywho thanks for trying to help folks |
Sarin Adler
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.02 08:32:00 -
[22]
Does his happen only at jumpgates maybe? |
ThorAlien
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Posted - 2008.09.02 12:30:00 -
[23]
i got the ATI hd 2600 model for the AGP slot which with the hotfix worked terrible IMO lol but other thanb that no probs other than normal GPU problems, maybe try reinstalling the GPU? |
Naeisha
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:17:00 -
[24]
Had the same problem but with a different video card, turning the cache size down from extreme to high, solved the problem for me... its worth a shot if you havent tried it yet :) |
Kina Putten
Amarr Noble House
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Posted - 2008.09.02 16:29:00 -
[25]
Re-install windows, get rid of all that old crap you have installed, nvidia drivers and such.
And set cash to zero if you have a decent computer.
And finally, EVE runs best in window mode. If you have problems running windowed your comp needs a doctor. |
Cpt EVGA
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Posted - 2008.09.02 19:21:00 -
[26]
lol, for topic starter... shoulda just got a nvidia card, problem solved :D
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Cpt EVGA
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Posted - 2008.09.02 19:23:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Cpt EVGA on 02/09/2008 19:22:57 and they look better in cases too hehe
for example heres my rig:
http://www.fragreel.com/ownage.jpg
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callaris
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Posted - 2008.09.15 21:58:00 -
[28]
Hi did you resolve this issue, because I have exactly the same problem. I'm running a HD4870, with P5Q pro mobo and a Q9550 quad cpu. I have installed the latest ati drivers and still have the same problem. I have even tried increasing the gpu fan speed to lower it's temp. However this has not helped except for allowing me to increase my overdrive settings.
But soon as i put eve into window mode I either loose graphics or VPU recovery kicks in. Hope you can help.
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Morbius66
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Posted - 2008.09.17 20:28:00 -
[29]
Join the club. My last 4 (or is it 5) petitions with directx output have been closed with a canned answer about supporting only modes supplied by the driver.
My experience is that windowed mode is horrible and I've got some kind of bug that only lets windowed mode choose 1920x1200 or 1920x1080i. If I switch to full screen mode, it can choose nearly any typical resolution choice up to 1920x1200.
Dell 2405fpw Sapphire HD4870 Latest Catalyst as of last night (8.9 maybe?). Profile hacked to boost fanspeed to 40% (temps hover around 55C in 3D) [email protected] P5Q Pro 4x1gb g.skill hz ram WD Raptor XP Pro SP3 X-fi Platinum latest directx (pseudo-10?) Recently clean rebuild with latest drivers etc.
So, in short, poor window performance (with premium graphics or no, tried various color levels and advanced features on/off) and can only run windowed mode at nearly full-screen resolutions (how useless is that)?
I used to play eve in dual 1024x768 windows.
this game sux so much.. I can't believe people pay to play it. Whatever day you guys decide my datacores are not worth the price of GTC, I'm done. Until then, I just occasionally set skills and purchase/sell datacores, waiting for a time when Eve sux so much I wont' even do that.
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Merindan
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Posted - 2008.09.26 13:57:00 -
[30]
I'm having similar problems with the 4870 and EVE
Some games run fine, others crash with blocks on the screen and artifacts all over the place.
It's a known issue with a lot of 4870 cards from different manufacturers. The problem *should* be with powerplay. the card switches back and forth between 2D/3D mode, changing mhz all the time, and this can cause it to crash.
there's a HUGe thread on it on the amd forums, and on page 26 there's a few links to new bios for the gfx cards. check it out, but flash at your own risk off course. I'm gonna try flashing mine over the weekend.
thread
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