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Finns Regarding Waffen SS

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Author	Topic
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.27 01:29:00 - [1] Were there any SS battalions serving on the eastern front in Finland? Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.08.27 02:05:00 - [2] Exclusively. Negotiations between Finland and Germany restricted finnish SS from fighting on the European front. Finnish soldiers had to secretly volunteer as to not alarm Russia too early of troop movement/advancement. They actually made quite the push to the oil fields at the forefront of the advancement.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.27 03:22:00 - [3] In Finland, were there any SS deployed in Finland? Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.08.27 03:33:00 - [4] After 2 years on the Russian front the Finnish-German contract was up and the Finnish only SS battalion was re-deployed back to Finland. Upon returning the battalion was disbanded and the troops were returned to the Finnish army however many still served the SS. It's really hard to say yes to what your asking due to the secrecy of the Finish SS. All troops were volunteers and were classified as German industrial workers to protect Finnish sovereignty. They were trained in Finland and then were shipped to Germany for a little more training before being sent to Russia. In '43 they were shipped back to Finland.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:19:00 - [5] Ok for further clarification I don't care about finnish battalions, I'm wondering did any other germanic SS serve in Finland? Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:20:00 - [6] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 27/08/2008 04:27:25 Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 27/08/2008 04:25:14 The situation is complicated. This is a really touchy subject for many Finns and I need to give some backstory. Sorry. See the bolded part to answer your question. Finland is a tiny country bordered by two larger and historically much stronger countries - Sweden and more frighteningly the behemoth that is Russia. Both these two countries have held stakes over Finland in the past. Alittle history... From 1809 to 1917 Finland was actually under the control of Russia. During WWI, the German Imperialists provided support and aid to Finland as Finland began to campaign for a revolution and long awaited independence. When the Bolshevick Revolution occured, Finland took advantage of the situation and declared their independence. So along with cultural ties, a relationship was established bewteen Germany and Finland. Enter 1940 - the Winter War. Russia decided that they wanted a portion of Finland - the Karelian Isthmus particulary (which happens to be where my family is from). Gaining this region would provide a buffer between Leningrad and would provide more access to the Baltic Sea (and access to cold water ports have been a major issue for Russia always). So Finland saw the force of Russia come down upon them, and threaten their very existence. Russia threatened the whole country if Finland did not secede this area (which amounted to about 1/3 of the whole country's area I believe). Germany offered to help. When faced with the prospect of losing their whole country, Finland had to take Germany's help. Well, while Germany provided some help, it was the actual Finns who fought the war. The Germans provided supplies - food, guns, planes and training. The Soviet forces outnumbered the Finns 4 to 1 in men, 200 to 1 in tanks, and 30 to 1 in aircraft. It's one of the most amazing wars ever. The Finnish soldiers held their own and managed to keep the country, although they lost Karelia and some other areas. After this, Germany called on the Finns to help in WWII against the Russians. It's a touchy subject, and there's a lot of debate about it. Some say Finnish troops were shipped to Germany. Here's what I've read: Finland did fight on the Russian front, but only in the Karelian Region that they wanted back. So as you can see, it's very complicated, like all of history and mankind in general. Finland, although considered an Axis power, was only trying to retain its nationality when threatened by Russia - and the Germans were the only ones willing to help. The U.S. refused to get involved. Anyway, I'm sorry for the essay. Hope this cleared it up ;) Links: Here. Here.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:31:00 - [7] Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 27/08/2008 04:31:13 Yes I see your point but what I want to know is was there ever any germanic SS in Finland in any capacity? Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:44:00 - [8] Do you mean actual German SS? Trying to help here but your question seems rather vague. there were several divisions of German SS in Finland. Mountain, infantry, panzers, and a airfield.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:47:00 - [9] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 27/08/2008 04:47:56 Finland served as a kinda "sideshow" front in WWII; there were a series of related wars, with the Finns doing most of the fighting. However, yes, Germans did fight on Finnish soil both against Russia and Finland. A big one was Operation Barbarossa in 1941. On June 25, the Soviet Union launched a massive air raid against Finnish cities - after which Finland declared war and allowed German troops stationed in Finland to begin offensive warfare. Here's more than you ever wanted to know: Here.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Do you mean actual German SS? Trying to help here but your question seems rather vague. there were several divisions of German SS in Finland. Mountain, infantry, panzers, and a airfield. German SS is a vague term, I prefer to use germanic as I have no idea about how they referred to SS from the early annexed german speaking areas. So if finns did all the fighting what did the supposed elite troops do there? Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As

Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:49:00 - [11] Dietrich, why do you know so much about this btw? I'm Finnish, that's why I do. And I have the movie and yes, even the board game .
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:49:00 - [12] Finns didn't do all the fighting but quite a bit of it. why waste you own troops when you can use someone elses?
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:52:00 - [13] Are there any public records listing german troops in Finland, deployment and such? Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:53:00 - [14] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Do you mean actual German SS? Trying to help here but your question seems rather vague. there were several divisions of German SS in Finland. Mountain, infantry, panzers, and a airfield. German SS is a vague term, I prefer to use germanic as I have no idea about how they referred to SS from the early annexed german speaking areas. So if finns did all the fighting what did the supposed elite troops do there? There were so many smaller wars, it's so complicated. Yes, there were German troops fighting on Finnish soil against Russia, not sure if they were SS or not. However, most of the wars in that region during that time were fought mostly by Finns against the Russians and later the Germans.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:54:00 - [15] I know plenty already about the actual war, what I don't know is about possible SS involvement and if so where, doing what? Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:56:00 - [16] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Dietrich, why do you know so much about this btw? I'm Finnish, that's why I do. And I have the movie and yes, even the board game . My father and I are major WW2 junkies. This here be one of my favorite books I've also got a rack full of WW2 Documentaries along with several other books like plane diagrams, armory, detailed invasions, a war quirks book, and even mein kampf. And for Danton some linkage
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.27 05:01:00 - [17] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 27/08/2008 05:01:07 Okay... here, this should answer your question: I just googled SS involvement finland, like you could have. link
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.27 05:10:00 - [18] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: Amandin Adouin Dietrich, why do you know so much about this btw? I'm Finnish, that's why I do. And I have the movie and yes, even the board game . My father and I are major WW2 junkies. This here be one of my favorite books I've also got a rack full of WW2 Documentaries along with several other books like plane diagrams, armory, detailed invasions, a war quirks book, and even mein kampf. And for Danton some linkage Haha, okay. I'm an American Finn so I'm coming from the Finnish standpoint in all this above, and less of the WWII as a whole standpoint. I guess the OP didn't care about all that, oh well . At least the Eve forums got a little history lesson.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.27 05:15:00 - [19] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 27/08/2008 05:01:07 Okay... here, this should answer your question: I just googled SS involvement finland, like you could have. link Google and I aren't friends. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.27 05:38:00 - [20] Okay... it's just a topic I'm interested in because my family is from Karelia ... my grandmother actually carried my dad as a baby across the region under fire from Russian artillery. So I guess I used this as an excuse to talk about it and to research it a bit more for myself. Sorry I didn't provide any direct answers - they're really hard to pin down regarding this! Dietrich's link was the closest I saw to answering your question.

Rana Ash Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.08.27 09:36:00 - [21] Intresting bits of history, as a swede it tickels my imagination to have so much of a rich history basicly just next door lyret dedreen
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:18:00 - [22] Have a good read http://worldwar2database.com/ Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:29:00 - [23] My personal favorites are aviation stories. Trying to google a few but I'm not having much luck atm. I know in the Pacific fleet there was a superfortress crew that modified their plane and threw more guns on it (and no bombs). Zero's weren't expecting that as it wiped the floors with 13 of them in a recon run. I also recall a P 47 pilot on one of his first runs in Europe in that plane. They were escorting bombers when his wing got ambushed from above and behind by 109's. The first strafe sent him into a major tailspin and he couldn't bail because his cockpit had been jammed. When he finally pulled out of the spin he looked around to find any comrades but unluckely saw only one plane, a german ace. The ace got behind him and just unloaded on his plane causing a oil leak to spill all over his windshield. The P47 was trying to weave around and being slower than the 109 the 109 overshot him giving the guy a chance to shoot back but due to bad visibility he missed. Now that the 47's navigation was shot to hell the german ace came about again, lined up and just unloaded on the 47 a second time. All the 47 pilot could do was bunch up and try to hide behind the plate placed behind him. When the ace finished up he saw that the 47 was still flying although it looked like swiss cheese. He pulled up beside the 47 to survey the damage, shook his head in disbelief, gave the 47 pilot an airman salute and flew off. The P 47 managed to make it back to it's airfield and the pilot later became one of the top aces of WW2.
Sandra Tyrell	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:58:00 - [24] Edited by: Sandra Tyrell on 27/08/2008 19:00:51 To find more informed people regarding war history, go to paradox forums. Don't expect an answer in five minutes though. It pays to be courteous as well, one liner questions tend to get one liner answers. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=44
Sandra Tyrell	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:55:00 - [25] Edited by: Sandra Tyrell on 27/08/2008 19:56:36 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich I also recall a P 47 pilot on one of his first runs in Europe in that plane. Someone made an IL2 vid (so it's machinima, using IL2) regarding that incident, check it out, if you haven't already. Ending is a little different to your version. Maybe you'll like it. Remember though that they're not pro's making them, voice acting is what it is. The film is the account of Robert S. Johnson’s epic battle for survival on June 26th 1943 after he was attacked by Egon Mayer. His plane was attacked and he fell from 29,000ft to just 6,000ft before he regained control of his plane "Half Pint". He was then seen by Egon Mayer who pursued the stricken P-47. The film is Johnson's account of the events. Whoa. I just downloaded and watched this vid again, prior to posting this. The author seems to have gotten a little carried away. First time I saw this (years ago) it was maybe 3 minutes long. Now it's an astounding 28minutes, with Johnson and his P47 only coming in after 9 minutes. As it is now, I can no longer recommend this vid, but since I already got the links and typed it out, here it is anyway. Lots more, and much better imo, at that site too. Maximum Bob's two vids being the most beautiful ones. Though nothing has yet beaten Requiem in my opinion, as old as it is. Strangely, that site doesn't have it, but you can get it here instead. It so beautifully captures the eastern front for the LW. Well, my notion of it at least. Heh, come to think of it, these vids might not be so special for non IL 2 people, by todays standards the graphics are a little dated. Regarding war stories, some gems that I greatly enjoyed can be found BBC's Peoples War. Regular folk telling stories, most often not about the hero or action on the frontlines, so it's not stuff you'lle easily find elsewhere. Of course, most regular folk aren't the best storytellers, but like I said, some gems to be found there. And there's so many you can always come back for more.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:59:00 - [26] Could ya find a vid link that doesn't require download? I'm on a work pc and can't do that. It's the same guy though. I saw the reinactment on the history channel with the actual pilot narrating it.
Sandra Tyrell	Posted - 2008.08.27 20:34:00 - [27] Naw, sorry, the author says nobody is supposed to put it on youtube or anything like it, on that page there.
Valan The Fated	Posted - 2008.08.27 20:46:00 - [28] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Now that the 47's navigation was shot to hell the german ace came about again, lined up and just unloaded on the 47 a second time. All the 47 pilot could do was bunch up and try to hide behind the plate placed behind him. When the ace finished up he saw that the 47 was still flying although it looked like swiss cheese. He pulled up beside the 47 to survey the damage, shook his head in disbelief, gave the 47 pilot an airman salute and flew off. The P 47 managed to make it back to it's airfield and the pilot later became one of the top aces of WW2. Thats a similar story to one that featured on the recent kamikaze documentary on the BBC. They sent one of their top aces on a suicide mission which tbh was a complete waste and he knew it. Luckily for him he was jumped by three US fighters on the way. They Swiss cheesed him utnil they ran out of ammo. He was still flying around lol they dipped their wings and flew off. He survived the war but was frowned upon because he came back. Good on him tbh. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.08.27 20:52:00 - [29] Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 27/08/2008 20:55:02 Originally by: Valan Thats a similar story to one that featured on the recent kamikaze documentary on the BBC. They sent one of their top aces on a suicide mission which tbh was a complete waste and he knew it. Luckily for him he was jumped by three US fighters on the way. They Swiss cheesed him utnil they ran out of ammo. He was still flying around lol they dipped their wings and flew off. He survived the war but was frowned upon because he came back. Good on him tbh. Yeah I saw that one too. The germans took up the kamikaze tactic with the exception that the pilots were actually expected to come back (They try to bail out before they hit so a lot of times they flew towards their target upside down.) The planes they used had no guns, ammo, or even armor so it was a bad day for him when he came across that strike force. One .50 cal round completely destroyed his right arm but he lived. It was another one of those episodes where the pilots do the narrating. Another story they had on that same episode the german pilot completely rear ended one of our older model bombers before skipping over the plane and falling out of the sky. Both the pilot and the crew of the bomber except the rear gunner all lived. The bomber pilots talked about how they had to use every last ounce of strength just to keep the plane level and they flew like that for over 2 hours back to base.

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