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Bovice Tyrone
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Posted - 2008.08.27 15:09:00 -
[1]
ive begun to crosstrain for caldari raven as a my main source of isk is from missioning and ive been told that the raven is the ultimate mission ship.
1) wat are the skills that i need to effectively use a raven
2) wat is a good setup for the raven (mission lvl3-4). i have 0 experience shield tanking
3) wat missiles should i use
help is greatly apprecieted
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.27 15:30:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Soporo on 27/08/2008 15:35:01
It's not the ultimate missioner, but it's the best for low sp lvl 4's certainly. Golem or CNR is probably the very best, but Ravens can do lvl 4's fine.
Highs: you want cruise missile launchers (Limos or XT's if poor) or Arbalests if you are swimming in money. Maybe a tractor in the utility slot.
Mids for Ez mode: you want 4 rat specific hardeners, whatever is appropriate for the mission. A large cap injecter and a hold with 800 cap boosters (about 10-12).
XL Shield Booster (C5L).
Lows: 3 Ballistic Controll units, a Damage Controll, and whatever.
T2 Medium Drones of any type (for the frigs).
Rigs: 3 Cap Controll 1's.
All mods except for launchers and the Shield Booster and maybe the cap injector NEED to be Tech 2 stuff.
As for what skills, pull up the market and find each ship or module you want and click the blue info button and then look at the skill requirements...
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.08.27 16:05:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ghoest on 27/08/2008 16:05:00
Telling someone the Raven isnt the best mission ship(some one who is asking about the Raven for missions) but that the CNR is - is just silly.
Of course the CNR is better. Its an improved Raven.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Augeas
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Posted - 2008.08.27 16:25:00 -
[4]
I think the Dominix is generally regarded as the best T1 mission ship.
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Boz Well
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:20:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Augeas
I think the Dominix is generally regarded as the best T1 mission ship.
Not necessarily. It's certainly a good one though.
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Serapo Petrotestes
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Posted - 2008.08.28 12:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Soporo
Edited by: Soporo on 27/08/2008 15:35:01
All mods except for launchers and the Shield Booster and maybe the cap injector NEED to be Tech 2 stuff.
Erm... no.
just fit T1 unnamed stuff (you will need very little SP for that) and just warp out once or twice on the odd tough mission. You will be flying a low cost (gank safe) ship very quickly and making money sonner rather than waiting to skill up for T2.
And since you will have to pay attention and manage the agro, you won't get bored out of your socks so quickly.
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Ipos
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Posted - 2008.08.28 15:43:00 -
[7]
Here's the deal,
Ravens don't really become excellent ratters until quite a large ammount of SP has been invested into them. Even when properly skilled, a ship like a Domi with the equivalent ammount of SP behind it won't be far behind in terms of effectiveness (and it allows for you to slack in missions thanks to its drones).
So I'd say, go with the Domi instead if that complements your existing combat ship skills. SP in missiles and shield skills only become really worth it in missions once you can fork out the isk for a CNR or Golem.
A plain raven needs caldari BS IV cruise IV and all the support skills at IV (except maybe the range skills, but those will be needed if you wish to use a torp golem or use missiles in PvP). Other than that you'll just need the basic cap and fitting skills along with the requirements for T2 mods, should you feel the need for them.
A good perma raven setup requires more SP than an injected one, if you're not bothered by having boosters in your cargo then start off with an injected raven. Just field as many BCU's as possible whilst maintaining a tank of around 450-600 damage. With a CNR raven you may opt for a passive tank instead, it's all pretty much just a balance of comfort and speed.
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Taipan Leviathan
The Maverick Navy
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.08.28 18:58:00 -
[8]
I crosstrained for a raven for lvl 4 missions and actually i wish i didn't do it.
By the time you have trained for a raven you could have been just as good training support skills for an amarr ship.
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Boz Well
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:11:00 -
[9]
What Ipos had to say is very good. The only thing I would add is that in addition to injected and perma tanks, the third option for a Raven (and the most common) is a burst tank. You don't have to perm-run your XL booster, and you don't need boosters to let you run it for 10+ minutes at a time. There are a lot of missions where you'll barely have to touch the booster, and for those where you're taking a lot of damage, you simply pulse the booster until you reach 30% cap, recharge, and repeat.
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.08.28 22:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Taipan Leviathan
I crosstrained for a raven for lvl 4 missions and actually i wish i didn't do it.
By the time you have trained for a raven you could have been just as good training support skills for an amarr ship.
tHIS.
Also, its good to train for the Domi because the drone skills help your Arbitrator/Curse/Pilgrim/Geddon drones and its actually not that much slower. Ultimatly, the Apoc should be able to do Amarr Lv.4s with little or no difficulty. The Raven is the most efficient, but not by enough to justify the training time considering the Domi can be trained in less time with more utility for combat in general.
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GO BLUE!! |
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Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
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Posted - 2008.08.28 23:24:00 -
[11]
Bare minimum to make a raven work well in lvl4's would be cruise skills maxed, all missle support skills at 4 or better and all shield related skills at 4 or better. This is NOT a short training cycle. Minimum, you're looking at 60 days or so. This also assumes you already have cap and other generic skills at 4 or better.
If I was starting over, I'd train Gallente / Amarr or Gallente / Minie.
Caldari are cool, but only if you plan on focusing on missles. If not, then skip their ships for the most part. (Ewar is the only thing you can't get somewhere else)
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Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational" |
Boz Well
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.28 23:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Bare minimum to make a raven work well in lvl4's would be cruise skills maxed, all missle support skills at 4 or better and all shield related skills at 4 or better. This is NOT a short training cycle. Minimum, you're looking at 60 days or so. This also assumes you already have cap and other generic skills at 4 or better.
If I was starting over, I'd train Gallente / Amarr or Gallente / Minie.
Caldari are cool, but only if you plan on focusing on missles. If not, then skip their ships for the most part. (Ewar is the only thing you can't get somewhere else)
This is noobish. You don't need cruise 5 to do level 4 missions. You don't even need all skills at 4 to start out. Yes, it helps, it makes things faster, but you can do level 4's (safely) with a bare minimum of skills in a Raven.
As to the people saying Raven is harder to train than Dominix, this is just wrong. The dominix also makes a great low sp ship, but to really push it to the limit you need t2 large rails/t2 heavy/t2 sentry/yada yada yada. That's no less than a Raven needs, and is more tbh.
In short, both skills are great for low SP people, and with higher skills they transform from a bare bones mission ship to an efficient mission ship. However, thinking you need things like t2 cruise to start missioning is just stupid, and people should stop spreading such nonsense. 
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Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
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Posted - 2008.08.28 23:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Bare minimum to make a raven work well in lvl4's would be cruise skills maxed, all missle support skills at 4 or better and all shield related skills at 4 or better. This is NOT a short training cycle. Minimum, you're looking at 60 days or so. This also assumes you already have cap and other generic skills at 4 or better.
If I was starting over, I'd train Gallente / Amarr or Gallente / Minie.
Caldari are cool, but only if you plan on focusing on missles. If not, then skip their ships for the most part. (Ewar is the only thing you can't get somewhere else)
This is noobish. You don't need cruise 5 to do level 4 missions. You don't even need all skills at 4 to start out. Yes, it helps, it makes things faster, but you can do level 4's (safely) with a bare minimum of skills in a Raven.
As to the people saying Raven is harder to train than Dominix, this is just wrong. The dominix also makes a great low sp ship, but to really push it to the limit you need t2 large rails/t2 heavy/t2 sentry/yada yada yada. That's no less than a Raven needs, and is more tbh.
In short, both skills are great for low SP people, and with higher skills they transform from a bare bones mission ship to an efficient mission ship. However, thinking you need things like t2 cruise to start missioning is just stupid, and people should stop spreading such nonsense.
You don't NEED t2 cruise to do missions. But if you have low SP in missles you're going to find the missions much much harder and slower.
Adding to the low DPS problem is your crappy tank problem. Putting them together means that doing lvl4s is dumb and likely to cost you a 100m ship more than once.
Seriously, if the best you can do is a t1 fitted raven, you should find someone to run missions with. You'll both make more money and you can actually complete a mission in less than 2 hours.
There are plenty of examples of people with t1 fits running Lvl4s and certainly it can be done, even with few SP... it's not efficient or intelligent, but that doesn't stop people.
You CAN run missions in a low SP raven (or domi). You can't run them quickly, safely or efficiently. Which, if the goal is isk, you FAIL.
______________________________________________
Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational" |
Lynal
Gallente
A Few Good Men.
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Posted - 2008.08.29 00:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
You don't NEED t2 cruise to do missions. But if you have low SP in missles you're going to find the missions much much harder and slower.
Adding to the low DPS problem is your crappy tank problem. Putting them together means that doing lvl4s is dumb and likely to cost you a 100m ship more than once.
Seriously, if the best you can do is a t1 fitted raven, you should find someone to run missions with. You'll both make more money and you can actually complete a mission in less than 2 hours.
There are plenty of examples of people with t1 fits running Lvl4s and certainly it can be done, even with few SP... it's not efficient or intelligent, but that doesn't stop people.
You CAN run missions in a low SP raven (or domi). You can't run them quickly, safely or efficiently. Which, if the goal is isk, you FAIL.
you dont NEED t2 drones and guns to do missions in a domi. but if you have low sp in drones and guns you're going to find the missions much much harder and slower.
seriously, if the best you can do is a t1 fitted domi, you should find someone to run missions with. you'll both make more money and you can actually complete a mission in less than 2 hours.
"You CAN run missions in a low SP raven (or domi). You can't run them quickly, safely or efficiently. Which, if the goal is isk, you FAIL."
basically what you're saying there is what everyone should already know... dont run lvl 4's until you have the skills for them. if someone feels that they shouldnt be running lvl 4s until they can fly a raven efficiently (even if they can fly a full t2/faction fit domi)... then thats their choice. just like how someone who can fly a fully fit raven might (im not saying they do, just that they could) feel they cant do missions until they have a fully fit domi.
bottom line, fly what you feel is best for you... if its a raven fine. if its a domi... thats fine too. if you mission slower than others, but are cool with it, fine too. you're the pilot, you make the decisions... they dont have to be the same decisions as all the sheeple out here.
Originally by: Daeva Vios
It's fair when the larger force is on my side.
It's lame when the larger force is on their side.
How have people not figured this out yet?
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Boz Well
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.29 00:33:00 -
[15]
Saying people will die without t2 cruise or a t2 booster even is just silly. t2 cap rechargers, t2 BCS (mainly because they're cheap, meta 4 would work), t2 hardeners (important), yeah, those you want to train up. Cap skills to 4, sure, good stuff. t2 drones? You don't need them. t2 cruise? You don't need them. Telling people they will lose ravens without them is what is fail, lol, because it's nonsense.
A meta 4 XL booster provides all the tank you really need for all but a very small handful of missions (EA5/5, bonus room of AE). Arbalest cruise launchers do just fine, and although t2 are a nice little DPS boost, they aren't necessary. T2 drones? Not necessary at all. Hell, I don't even use them myself, mainly because I am reckless with drones and I hate paying for replacement t2's, heh.
Point is, telling people they will lose ravens if they don't have t2 cruise is nonsense, same for t2 drones, and same for a lot of things. You don't want someone going out there with no cap skills, t1 hardeners, etc., but the bar is a lot lower than you're suggesting.
A little bit of competence goes a lot further than just having more SP, and it's easy for new players to get an advantage by using eve-survival.org. If someone has the basic skills like t2 hardeners, reads eve-survival, and plays cautiously, there's absolutely no reason they can't do level 4 missions in a Raven.
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