Originally by: Sheriff Jones

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Originally by: Malcanis

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I'm not asking for a nerf to hi-sec - I'm asking to be able to not care about hi-sec.

If there's anything you dislike about that, then let's hear it.

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Well, mainly, that when i said "i'm not saying i dn't want player interaction, but i want the choice to do missions in peace", i think your answer was in the boundries of "go to wow".

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Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

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okay an idea for the pile.

not actually thought it out, it just popped up in my head and I'm too tired now to actually think if this is good or bad, so you decide.

scattered regions, not connected with stargates.

randomly (random system, random location, random open duration, sometimes they have to be scanned out to be even detectable), wormholes pop up giving access to and from the isolated regions.

how's that?

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Originally by: Malcanis

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To be blunt, I wish the missionbears would go back to WoW, and I neither deny nor apologise for that. But it's not going to happen, and I'm not pretending it will or trying to make it come about. So I'm trying to come up with a way of living with them.

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My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.

Originally by: Sheriff Jones

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Originally by: Malcanis

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To be blunt, I wish the missionbears would go back to WoW, and I neither deny nor apologise for that. But it's not going to happen, and I'm not pretending it will or trying to make it come about. So I'm trying to come up with a way of living with them.

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But you do understand that it would be like someone saying "i wish those pirates would go to counterstrike". It's not really nice, nor constructive, nor even "a good thing to suggest"

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Originally by: Marc deBourgogne

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Dessert? Hahaha

Pastry Coalition? HahahahaHAHAHAHAH

Man, that's just too good!

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Originally by: Frenden Dax

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My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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I'm kind of concerned that no-one has contributed a better idea then "really far away".

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Originally by: Kyra Felann

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Originally by: Khrillian

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I'll throw out the obvious option that CCP would never implement - PVE servers and PVP servers. It's what basically every other MMO does to solve this problem.

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So you're saying you basically support destroying one of the core concepts of Eve? Eve is not "every other MMO" and that's why I play Eve.

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Originally by: Khrillian

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Originally by: Kyra Felann

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Originally by: Khrillian

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I'll throw out the obvious option that CCP would never implement - PVE servers and PVP servers. It's what basically every other MMO does to solve this problem.

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So you're saying you basically support destroying one of the core concepts of Eve? Eve is not "every other MMO" and that's why I play Eve.

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In empire, you can fly around and never engage in pvp, except once in awhile you used to get blown up by a disco apoc outside of Jita or you were dumb and put too much in your badger. I don't really see what this adds to the game.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Let's triple it [0.0 space] in size... Basically, I envision areas of 0.0 so far from empire that even with cap ships and jump freighters, it's still worthwhile developing a local economy rather than importing stuff from empire.

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Originally by: 5pinDizzy

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I'll tell you something that I was thinking about tonight if you want an idea.

The main problem with making level 4's challenging or interesting again is no matter how you try to add risk for the 10 billion isk faction battleships that are built to tank the dps of the entire room in every level 4 that exists twice over, you hurt the not so experienced and well equipped BS players and maybe make it next to impossible for them.

So I think add a new factor to level 4 agents.

Have a climbing ladder not just in agent quality, but agent difficulty.

Even if they are all level 4, have hard level 4 agents, and easier level 4 agents.

If your ship does better in missions, you rise to the harder level 4 agents and the easier ones won't give you missions any more. Unless you fail a few certain times and you drop back down again.

Something to work with, no?

Another idea was also thinking about maybe adding ships that scramble other then frigates, maybe scrambling cruisers and battlecruisers too.

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Originally by: Iyhi Baal

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Geessss ... can we get past the nerf mission slogans. No ones buying it.

The reason no one is buying it is because it does not make sense.

Fallacy number 1. Mission hubs cause lag.
Perhaps they do -- in the system that they exist in but in general they don't affect the vast majority of systems or game play for the majority of eve players. Simple solution-- stay out of the mission hubs and you will have no lag.

Fallacy number 2. Mission runner deflate ore and salvage prices.
Look, the universe of Eve was never intended to be such that everywhere was the local market. The dirt cheap prices inside empire represent the abundance of goods and the weakness of demand. If you live outside empire then that is your market. You pay the difference to make up for the risk that I take on to bring goods to market. If you are in a null sec alliance you should never have to trek back. Doing so only hurts your alliance. The absence of a local market in alliance held territory is the hallmark of a poorly managed alliance.

Fallacy number 3. Inflation caused by mission runners devalue faction gear farmed outside empire.
Again, one has to ask the question, why are you bring this stuff back to empire. If you are in an alliance then you are just weakening your alliance, depriving them of a tactical advantage while weakening the idea of a local market. If no one has use for the gear then stop farming it (kinda solves 2 problems at once). If they are a vital resource then it give the other alliances an incentive to take the region. Either way, a person in empire with lots of isk and nothing great to buy has little incentive to keep doing missions. There are better aspects to the game to play once you have satisfied your need for isk.
Fallacy number 4.Mission runners are unassialbe.
There exist several mechanisms for players to "interact" with other players. The war dec exist. If you are willing to pay the price you can sucide them. You don't have to patron the empire markets -- force the salvage to come to you as it were. At a certian point the diminshed returns of empire PVE will force ppl to leave as there are more interesting things to do else where.

The funny thing is that for ppl that pride themselves in adapting to the sandbox you are all doing alot of whining directed at the Devs. Personally, I find Eve to be a wonderful game full of possibliites waiting to be explored. Imagine using some of your PVP muscle to guard and foster commerce while at the same time attacking the supply in "different" regions away from your home.

We collectively have the power to shape Eve anyway we want. Sure it take a little extra work. But the payoff is the continuation of a game that attracted you in the first place because it refused to spoon feed you entertainment with no thinking required.

Or you can go back to whining for an irration change that "ain't gonna happen" because you are ****ed that the devs as signaled the willingness to nerf 2 relatively riskless behaviors for the good of the community.

the choice, as always, is yours

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Originally by: Bart Mag

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i allways wonder how short sighted someone can be.
Who do you think will pay for eve when all theses carebears are back to wow?
You and your handfull of pirate friends?

Its allways the self imposed hardcore pvp crowd thats crying the loudest about what others have to do and how eve is supposed to be played.

maybe you just didn¦t realize that the times where eve was centered around pvp are gone?
maybe CCP realized that more money can be made with carebears then pvpers?
What do you want to do?
Adapt or die?

can i have your eye patch?

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Who will pay for EvE when the carebears find the next game to move on to?

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My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.

Originally by: Sheriff Jones

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Who will pay for EvE when the carebears find the next game to move on to?

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Well, some of us don't.

Ever.

Have been here from the beginning, MOST carebears i dare say are Amarr, 'cause we weren't that "efficient" in combat. So we looked for alternate options. Though we managed to live through that whole combat thing too.

I never trust a caldari saying missions are too easy, you were born for it

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Originally by: Malcanis

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I just find it rather ironic to be told to "adapt or die" by someone who implies that he'd quit EvE if he had an iota less protection from CCP. Not much long term commitment there, but he wants CCP to base their future plans on people like him, rather than the "obselete" PvPers who have played for years even when times where tough for their race.

And hey Amaar and Caldari ships are pretty good in PvP atm. In fact I think the races are extremely well balanced right now.

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My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.

Originally by: Sheriff Jones

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Yes, adapt or die is a widely used, not really important line. Excuse like the rest "eve is pvp", or "concensual when you log in". You know, one liners like "cake is a lie" with little merit.

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Originally by: Sheriff Jones

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Hope you got my point though, Amarr and Caldari weren't(in past) THAT good at PVP(ironic regarding basestory), but we managed through the rough times and are coming back.

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Originally by: Sheriff Jones

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I'm justtrying to keep a wide spectrum into the discussion, because i find that be it a beta-player, 2005, 2008, yesterday, we all are equal in the "what should be changed" scale and no change should come from "i want" section

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Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette

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Eve IS pvp, and it IS consentual when you log in. Those aren't your typical oneliners. They are just short statements of truth. I hope this isn't being questioned as well, because if it is, the Eve community have taken more steps backwards than I thought possible.

Amarr and Caldari 'managed' through the "rough times" by continuously whining for change. That's now the set standard for 'managing' through anything in Eve. Welcome to the brave new world.

Yes, we are all equal, in theory. However, not in practice. The recent year has shown us just how equal Empire pvpers and low sec pirates really are.

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My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.

Originally by: Sheriff Jones

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First, still a useless line(used to make an easy "i win" comment) as it contributes nothing.

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Originally by: Sheriff Jones

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Second, some did, most just plowed through and played with what they had.

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Originally by: Sheriff Jones

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Third, not the point, point was in making changes has to be equal.

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Originally by: Iyhi Baal

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how about this then...
stop trying to fix what ain't broke. Your solution addresses a problem that does not exist.

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Originally by: Astria Tiphareth

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Despite my intense dislike of Malcanis' style of posting, not least the sweeping generalisations, I really like this idea.

[troll]
That said, in the spirit of forum PvP I would like to think I've claimed as my role the 'live and let live' approach as a new upstart in the forums, so go back to being obnoxious and unpleasant Malcanis, I can't cope with this new pleasant approach! I can no longer lump you in with Ki An and co! How can the bitter vets suddenly be pleasant, I ask you, that's our new player role smashed...
[/troll]

Ok, time to be serious, and actually I never did most of the above, it just felt too good to delete in some sort of cathartic way

I have always thought of empire as a breeding ground, a place to grow, to retreat back to when things get hard, and the real EVE is out there in 0.0. Unfortunately as you say, it becomes quite difficult to separate 0.0 when there's this great deal in empire.

I see only one way of achieving this, and this is something CCP touched on a long time ago. Open the New Eden gate. A new vast tract of empty space, 0.0 space, entirely separate and clamped off from the current EVE down to a single (or maybe we can get clever and have someone build two) gate. On top of that, not only is this space separate, but the currency is as well. That way, you can't fund this new experience from empire alts. Instead, any money transfers, well you're going to have at least go fly through the supergate and then transfer it, after duly having your passport stamped by CONCORD and gone through currency exchange where that blonde behind the till just took 5% commission... Yes it'd get gatecamped to hell, these one or two transit points, and that's a good thing. I'd even suggest NPC pirates turn up in force if real pirates aren't busy blowing stuff up with abandon. Making going through these gates a difficult task, but not impossible.

Ironically, at first glance, this is just sharding the server under a new name, but no it isn't. It does separate the market, it does separate the players, but not entirely. I can see groups disappearing into the gates and then months later new and vastly powerful alliances issuing from the superportal in an oh-so-Stargate-esque manner, giving the current 0.0 players a headache and dramatically changing the balance of power. I see new super-alliance power-blocks determining the fate of entire galaxies, I see in short what EVE should be all about.

EVE has grown to the point where the bigger blocks find themselves cramped, where empire is inextricably linked to 0.0. Vets yearn for the old days where space was bigger, there were fewer people about, well a vast new area of space gives it to them. I for one am not ready for that vision, but by god I will be.

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Originally by: Astria Tiphareth

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Your idea is better in all ways than mine, bar a single proviso - a single entrance to the new space would almost instantly become an insurmountable barrier. At the very least, both sides of the New Eden gate would have to be lo-sec.

Which, actually, mightn't be a bad thing - individual players couldn't jump through with anything more than they can carry in a fast frigate.

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We could postulate that if CCP give the empires or some suitable faction the technology to restore a link to another galaxy, they could do it more than once. You could easily end up with several highways, and yes I agree, they should in a combination of low-sec or null-sec. I appreciate the compliment by the way.

Originally by: Malcanis

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Incidentally, as far as your surprise at my posting style goes, try reading back a couple of years. See if you can work out what has changed and make a guess why. If you can guess correctly first time, there's a prize.

(Yes, a real prize. Hate me or loathe me, you'll never find anyone who can assert that I've ever lied.)

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If the search on the forums worked well enough, I'd give it a go, but currently I have a small mountain of things on a 'to-do' pile that will have to come first . Perhaps someone else will beat me to it.

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