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Author	Topic
Streikeer	Posted - 2008.08.29 01:40:00 - [1] Edited by: Streikeer on 29/08/2008 01:41:04 Edited by: Streikeer on 29/08/2008 01:40:31 Skilling up for SB's and have some questions. Can a SB uncloak, target, lock and get a salvo of cruise missiles off and then recloak before his target gets a lock on him? I know it depends on what kind of ship the SB is targeting but in general, for most common SB targets, is it possible? Will the missiles still track and hit after I recloak? And what about useing a passive targeter?? I'm thinking of useing this as a anti-ecm ship (falcon etc..) And what are viable targets and what are ships I need to stay away from with a SB??
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.08.29 01:50:00 - [2] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 29/08/2008 01:50:09 Originally by: Streikeer Can a SB uncloak, target, lock and get a salvo of cruise missiles off and then recloak before his target gets a lock on him? I know it depends on what kind of ship the SB is targeting but in general, for most common SB targets, is it possible? No, unless you're at point blank range. Missile flight time is long enough for most ships to get a lock on you otherwise. Quote: Will the missiles still track and hit after I recloak? No. They apparently still hit if they're very close to impact when you cloak, but whether that's an intended feature or just a lag issue is unclear. Quote: And what about useing a passive targeter?? No. Passive targeters only hide your lock, not your aggro. As soon as you do something aggressive (which you normally do as soon as you get a lock) you will start blinking. Quote: I'm thinking of useing this as a anti-ecm ship (falcon etc..) It can work, but not very well compared to either ECM of your own or a cruise Raven. But to do this, you'll have to stay uncloaked for several shots. Quote: And what are viable targets and what are ships I need to stay away from with a SB?? Viable targets: T1 frigates, haulers. Things to stay away from: anything that can hit you at whatever range you engage from. Things you'll just be wasting your time on: everything else. In short, bombers suck. Get a cruise Raven instead.
Meridius Dex Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.29 03:47:00 - [3] It has been pretty well established that cruise missiles will travel about 40 KMs - after you cloak back up - before they are disarmed. So if you're within that range of the target when you fire and re-cloak, the missiles should hit, assuming target velocity is not greater than that of the missile explosion, of course. For a long range attack, most bombers fit sensor dampeners so that you can hit your targets before they successfully lock you from distant range. There are problems with this, notably that any target small enough to be aplha'd by your cruise volley is also quick enough to align and warp away before they hit from 100+ KMs out. There's one or two ways in which you can successfully employ a stealth bomber, but the truth is that they are boutique ships best used as oddball diversions. It's a shame they are not more effective,as I do enjoy flying them. -- Meridius Dex -- Amarr = EVE on Hard setting
Resamo	Posted - 2008.08.29 05:47:00 - [4] Most of your questions have been awnswered. However i dont think they are bad ships and are one of my favorite classes to fly, the real advantage of them is there speed while cloacked you can effectivly pick your battles and setup how you want to engage, this means you can engage targets that are far supiror then you in the off chance they are fit like shit or not to quick on the reflexes and still be able to disengage before they can get you scrambled. SB's are not fleet ships they are solo ships and move around hostiles fairly well, that being said i have used them in fleets to great effect but would be alot more helpfull in a different ship, often i have been one of the top dps dealers on kill mails simply because my alpha is so high. I generaly sit at a gate cloacked and wait for a target of opertunity its a one man gate camp but it can be fun and the amount of afk pods you see is really amazing. I run either CNR cruise or precision cruise depending on the situation advanced weapons upgrades 5 is a real help in fitting tech 2 launchers and most people dont have the fitting skills to do so. Ships to avoid... well big tanks are not going to be broken thats about it every ship is fair game in the right situation and you would be surprized how many poeople get caught offgaurd by a bomber, generaly though you are going to be taking out frigate sized hulls and maybe cruisers. stay away from nothing, but hide from everything.
Boozbaz	Posted - 2008.08.30 22:51:00 - [5] Edited by: Boozbaz on 30/08/2008 22:51:52 I've read to stay away from interceptors. One thing they can do is find you, fly in your direction and get within 2000 meters sooner then you can get away cloaked, which screws you over. However I'm wondering, with enough skills in reducing blast radius and increasing explosion velocity, would you be able to blow up an interceptor before it even gets to you? Or is it simply not worth it because it will warp away? I was ratting in lowsec and wound up in competition with an interceptor, so I moved on. Next, what about force recon ships? They use drones right? I noticed it had a lot of hit points, but I also do a lot of damage. Since I wasn't sure I just moved on instead of uncloaking/engaging.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2008.08.31 01:16:00 - [6] Originally by: Boozbaz However I'm wondering, with enough skills in reducing blast radius and increasing explosion velocity, would you be able to blow up an interceptor before it even gets to you? Or is it simply not worth it because it will warp away? Generally speaking, the explosion radius won't be an issue - since the interceptor will only have an explosion radius lower than this if he doesn't have his MWD on, and in these cases he'll be taking an awful lot of damage very quickly. Most of the time, against awake interceptors, your main problem will be their speed. If they get moving with their MWD on, they'll be able to mitigate the vast majority, if not all, of your cruises' damage. Explosion velocity is going to be the thing to go for - with T2 precision cruise missiles it would be an interesting battle, but otherwise, and if the interceptor can damage you from a 17-24km orbit (e.g. Crow, Malediction, er... turret inty with exceptional tracking) you're toast. If you can sneak up on an interceptor that's not moving and doesn't expect you, you can often 1-volley them (and if you do this aligned, you can warp as soon as they pop). If you expect to be engaging inties, an RSD with lock range script can be very useful, forcing them to come closer, into web range ( = they instapop again) or to disengage ( = you live). It's a very interesting fight that can go either way, and since both ship classes have very few hitpoints a little bit of tactics can make a massive difference. Quote: Next, what about force recon ships? They use drones right? I noticed it had a lot of hit points, but I also do a lot of damage. Since I wasn't sure I just moved on instead of uncloaking/engaging. You don't do that much damage, sorry to say. You'll probably do about the same or less than a force recon, with much less EHP. You wouldn't want to solo one. That said, stealth bombers can be an excellent deterrent for Falcons. Assuming you have the lock range, you can generally hit them at the ranges they'll pop up, and while your damage isn't massive, you can generally get enough volleys in the air before getting jammed that things will get very uncomfortable for the Falcon. With two stealth bombers, you're almost guaranteed to force him to warp out (or even destroy him if he doesn't realise the risk until it's too late - just don't count on this).
Boozbaz	Posted - 2008.08.31 01:37:00 - [7] Thanks a bunch Gartel! That's very informative and in-depth knowledge. Is there a place where I can read up on tactics like this?
Cavazos Caldari Night Wolves Methods of Mayhem Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.31 04:15:00 - [8] what? lol [url=http://meth.splintersphere.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=4981] [/url]
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace	Posted - 2008.08.31 05:16:00 - [9] I find Stealth Bombers to be best used as ambushers, and when distracted with a bigger ship on the overview they don't notice the 3-4 bombers that uncloak until the first volley goes off. I do say they're excellent for killing recons and fighter drones, and the ECM isn't bad as well. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
Arvald Caldari Ninjas N Pirates Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.31 06:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 29/08/2008 01:50:09 Originally by: Streikeer Can a SB uncloak, target, lock and get a salvo of cruise missiles off and then recloak before his target gets a lock on him? I know it depends on what kind of ship the SB is targeting but in general, for most common SB targets, is it possible? No, unless you're at point blank range. Missile flight time is long enough for most ships to get a lock on you otherwise. Quote: Will the missiles still track and hit after I recloak? No. They apparently still hit if they're very close to impact when you cloak, but whether that's an intended feature or just a lag issue is unclear. Quote: And what about useing a passive targeter?? No. Passive targeters only hide your lock, not your aggro. As soon as you do something aggressive (which you normally do as soon as you get a lock) you will start blinking. Quote: I'm thinking of useing this as a anti-ecm ship (falcon etc..) It can work, but not very well compared to either ECM of your own or a cruise Raven. But to do this, you'll have to stay uncloaked for several shots. Quote: And what are viable targets and what are ships I need to stay away from with a SB?? Viable targets: T1 frigates, haulers. Things to stay away from: anything that can hit you at whatever range you engage from. Things you'll just be wasting your time on: everything else. In short, bombers suck. Get a cruise Raven instead.

Wa'roun Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.31 11:44:00 - [11] Originally by: Resamo SB's are not fleet ships they are solo ships and move around hostiles fairly well, that being said i have used them in fleets to great effect but would be alot more helpfull in a different ship, often i have been one of the top dps dealers on kill mails simply because my alpha is so high. Ships to avoid... well big tanks are not going to be broken thats about it every ship is fair game in the right situation and you would be surprized how many poeople get caught offgaurd by a bomber, generaly though you are going to be taking out frigate sized hulls and maybe cruisers. stay away from nothing, but hide from everything. Not necessarily always true. Small gangs are good with them, especially when in a group of 5+ sb and recons. Everyone sits cloaked, recon appears, tackles, all sb appear and alpha. I have read stories of this and sb packs alpha'ing battleships. Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Captin ShadowHawk Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.31 12:11:00 - [12] I still think they should have covert ops cloaks but that's a different thread.... Signature removed due to incorrect size (400X120px and 24000 bytes). Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions. You can view you signature here - Petwraith
The Dribber Amarr Black Screen of Death HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.31 16:03:00 - [13] Originally by: Streikeer Edited by: Streikeer on 29/08/2008 01:41:04 Edited by: Streikeer on 29/08/2008 01:40:31 Can a SB uncloak, target, lock and get a salvo of cruise missiles off and then recloak before his target gets a lock on him? I know it depends on what kind of ship the SB is targeting but in general, for most common SB targets, is it possible? I go, get good range, align, uncloak, target, lock, salvo + sensor damp, wait for missiles to hit, recloak if damps dropped his lock or warp out and come back to a different safe spot. ------------------------ The DribbLer ...yes, I typo'd my own name...
Boozbaz	Posted - 2008.08.31 19:19:00 - [14] Originally by: Wa'roun Not necessarily always true. Small gangs are good with them, especially when in a group of 5+ sb and recons. Everyone sits cloaked, recon appears, tackles, all sb appear and alpha. I have read stories of this and sb packs alpha'ing battleships. That sounds like a really cool idea. I think I'll start training towards force recons and try to get a group together for that.
Sezarim	Posted - 2008.08.31 22:36:00 - [15] OK I have a question about the range of stealth bombers. I was hunting a Badger II... Eventually got a chance to get him. I was 100km away, I uncloaked... locked instantly and fired off a volley... All in about 2 seconds. (Sensor Boosters) I was watching the badger and it wasn't moving... then it started to allight... started moving... warped. All before my volley could reach him. So Im guessing I shorten my range for the next encounter So the volley actually Hits them. What is a decent range that others use? or How could I have increased my chance of hitting the target before he casually warps off?
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace	Posted - 2008.08.31 22:50:00 - [16] Stay closer to the gate, if you're just popping haulers fit a scram and shoot him. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2008.09.01 12:08:00 - [17] Originally by: Sezarim OK I have a question about the range of stealth bombers. I was hunting a Badger II... Eventually got a chance to get him. I was 100km away, I uncloaked... locked instantly and fired off a volley... All in about 2 seconds. (Sensor Boosters) I was watching the badger and it wasn't moving... then it started to allight... started moving... warped. All before my volley could reach him. So Im guessing I shorten my range for the next encounter So the volley actually Hits them. What is a decent range that others use? or How could I have increased my chance of hitting the target before he casually warps off? You basically gave yourself the answer in your post. Cruise missiles have a very good range, but one of the drawbacks of missiles in general is their travel time. If you cannot warp scramble a target, you're relying on being able to destroy it before it can align and warp out. If you're using missiles, you need to consider the travel time and how much it gives the target to warp out. In the situation you're asking about - if it's a Badger (which can fit at most one small turret for offense), just decloak right next to them and destroy them. If you knew you were specifically hunting the badger and had time to refit, putting a warp inhibitor in your mids would not be a bad idea - this way you can hold him in place for as many volleys as it will take to destroy him (more than one if he's fitting shield extenders). Otherwise, just decloak next to him, fire your volley and if that doesn't pop him, try to bump him until you can fire again. He shouldn't be able to do anything to you in the 10-15 seconds it takes to get that second volley off. You just can't shoot at things from 100km that aren't warp disrupted, else they'll just warp off as you found out.
Red zeon Caldari Circle of Shadows Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.09.01 12:35:00 - [18] sb can easyly do 200dps+ with alpha of 2500dps+ 5sb could do nice volleys on 10-15k dmg wich is pretty nice tho.
Sezarim	Posted - 2008.09.02 00:14:00 - [19] Just to let you know... Badger came back and I closed in to 20km range for a perfect hitting 2000+ damage on first volley. Pop! Im guessing Im going to lose alot of Manticore's testing on how much I can actually do to ships that CAN fight back. So I started fitting out a second one before I lose the first one. Ow and in no way am I boasting about how 1337 I am for killing a badger. Im pleased that i hunted it down again though.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.09.02 01:49:00 - [20] One further note on the anti-EWAR purpose of a bomber. Unless we're talking something like the Griffin or MAYBE the Kitsune a Bomber is not going to achieve a kill with any certainty when fighting at range. The important thing to note is the noble Falcon, scourge of all who stand before it is protected by a mere 6 - 7k woth of EHP. While they could fit a staggeringly thick tank if they desired (see the bait scorpion for the basic idea at play here) most chose to fit no tank and hope their ECM, cloak and ever handy warp button sustain their largely umprotected chunk of isk. As such, a single volley from a bomber will, one way or another, force the falcon to abandon it's position for a time. Either it warps out before the missiles hit (at extreme ranges a distinct possibility), or it warps out after the missiles hit, losing 1/3 of it's protection, or it stands it's ground and dies to subsequent volleys (this generally doesn't happen). People often get hung up on the idea of killing things with various ships when all they really want is to remove it's help from a battle. Causing a falcon to explode may be the most satisfying route to this end but it's certainly not the ONLY route. As a side note, the bombers all have unusually high sensor strength and a handful of mid slots that are generally reserved for fancy trickery. Supposing one can use that fantistic speed bonus when cloaked to creep into disruptor range of a falcon, it's entirely possible one could actually lock, point and pop a falcon in short order. In any battle your side is likely to win the falcon's jammers will generally be occupied annoying your gang mates to no end meaning to even TRY to stop you the falcon pilot has to cut a jammer, possibly unlock a target, lock your tiny ship and start jamming. They could also open fire with up to three unbonused medium weapons. Admittedly, there aren't often battles that give you the time you need to accomplish this particular trick because the bomber may have to move as far as 200km under cloak to accomplish it, and as such it's often better to be content with driving the falcon from the field again and again - afterall if he keeps throwing himself into the battle, your missiles will kill him eventually - most falcons will as such give up after the second volley puts them into deep structure.

Jonn Stryker	Posted - 2008.09.02 02:41:00 - [21] I fly a manticore solo. It's an excellent "in your face" ambusher. Trick is being in position before the target gets there or working into position when he's otherwise distracted. The speed bonus helps alot in that respect. Very cool ship. Hurts when you lose one but hey! Life is short, and then you die.

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