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Arvald
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.08.29 03:01:00 -
[1]
Ok so ive been told by several people not to believe any of the testing/science that is done on the show mythbusters because somehow because its on tv completely nullifies the fact that it looks (to me anyways) that everything they are doing is correct, so what i guess im asking is, is what they are doing real science or just quality tv?
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Xen Gin
Universal Mining Inc
Forged Dominion
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Posted - 2008.08.29 03:01:00 -
[2]
It doesn't have to be an either/or situation you know.
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Arvald
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.08.29 03:01:00 -
[3]
Ok so ive been told by several people not to believe any of the testing/science that is done on the show mythbusters because somehow because its on tv completely nullifies the fact that it looks (to me anyways) that everything they are doing is correct, so what i guess im asking is, is what they are doing real science or just quality tv?
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Xen Gin
Universal Mining Inc
Forged Dominion
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Posted - 2008.08.29 03:01:00 -
[4]
It doesn't have to be an either/or situation you know.
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Arvald
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.08.29 03:02:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Xen Gin
It doesn't have to be an either/or situation you know.
yes well im bored out of my mind and needed some distraction 
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Arvald
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.08.29 03:02:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Xen Gin
It doesn't have to be an either/or situation you know.
yes well im bored out of my mind and needed some distraction
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Amandin Adouin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.29 03:05:00 -
[7]
It's not the fact that it's on t.v. that makes it incorrect. The issue is that those guys don't use very scientific methods to test their hypothesis. They throw in random variables and some of their conclusions don't seem exactly based on logic.
Alot of it seems to be just for entertainment; I guess they feel that they need the ratings, so they need to 'mix it up' a bit or something.
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Amandin Adouin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.29 03:05:00 -
[8]
It's not the fact that it's on t.v. that makes it incorrect. The issue is that those guys don't use very scientific methods to test their hypothesis. They throw in random variables and some of their conclusions don't seem exactly based on logic.
Alot of it seems to be just for entertainment; I guess they feel that they need the ratings, so they need to 'mix it up' a bit or something.
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DubanFP
Caldari
Out of Order
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.08.29 03:14:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Amandin Adouin
It's not the fact that it's on t.v. that makes it incorrect. The issue is that those guys don't use very scientific methods to test their hypothesis. They throw in random variables and some of their conclusions don't seem exactly based on logic.
Alot of it seems to be just for entertainment; I guess they feel that they need the ratings, so they need to 'mix it up' a bit or something.
At several points in their show you can note that they tend to use the Sq root when changing the size of an object for mass rather then the cubed root. Often times they make some very flawed assumptions to the point where they completely overlook major problems.
It's interesting to watch from time to time but I wouldn't take anything they say too seriously. They're really just a handful of people that like to tinker but often have no clue what they're doing.
_______________
"Cheap" and "Lame" are words created by people who refuse to admit they have been completely outclassed |
Arvald
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.08.29 03:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: DubanFP
Originally by: Amandin Adouin
It's not the fact that it's on t.v. that makes it incorrect. The issue is that those guys don't use very scientific methods to test their hypothesis. They throw in random variables and some of their conclusions don't seem exactly based on logic.
Alot of it seems to be just for entertainment; I guess they feel that they need the ratings, so they need to 'mix it up' a bit or something.
At several points in their show you can note that they tend to use the Sq root when changing the size of an object for mass rather then the cubed root. Often times they make some very flawed assumptions to the point where they completely overlook major problems.
It's interesting to watch from time to time but I wouldn't take anything they say too seriously. They're really just a handful of people that like to tinker but often have no clue what they're doing.
so prety much a bunch of people who make failing look ****ing awesome?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.29 03:22:00 -
[11]
Mix of recreational science and quality entertainment.
I wouldn't take everything they say literally, but they have their moments.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
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Posted - 2008.08.29 04:00:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 29/08/2008 04:04:59
I have not heard anything positive or negative, from anyone of consequence, on the solidity of myth buster experiments. But I mean, science did not start with controlled research it started with experimentation. These guys are running experiments and no one should take them as fact, but to disqualify all they do as false is also not right. Theses guys do special effects. There are degrees of understanding of physics and many other sciences to do that job safely, so I believe that they know what they are doing. That being said I have done no research on their true backgrounds.
Trust me I know what it means to have to have control of research conditions, exercise physiology research  . But, physics equations aside, for things that are as off the wall that they are testing, I find it somewhere around the plausible side of truth and fiction, for most of the things that they test. Can you expect these guys to actually do full blown research on these "old wives tales", that would not sell.
Imagine doing the sniper shot down the site of an enemy and through the head in a scientifically sound fashion. Yeah right. Still interesting as hell to watch and fun to boot.
I take nothing they do as full on fact, but as I said, if they do not bust something, it at the least plausible.
The history of the plausible label in the series is it started with just busted or confirmed. They quickly realized that many of experiments they were doing could not for a fact be proven or disqualified. So the plausible stamp was invented.
I would also say that a majority of their experiments show up as plausible or busted and proven being the least. But I am not willing to do the checks to find the numbers out.
So watch and enjoy it for what it is. TV that is better then 90% of the rest of the crap 
Slade
Originally by: Crumplecorn
NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine.
DesuSigs
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Sharupak
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.29 04:42:00 -
[13]
It's hit or miss with them. Some stuff is well tested and other stuff is...well, they leave some exterior parameters out of the equation.
One of the cool ones...I always thought I would get better gas mileage with my tailgate down in my truck. The Mythbusters did bust that mith and showed how having the tailgate down acts as a spoiler pushing the backend of your truck down and increasing drag. If you have your tailgate up, it basically creates and aircushion in the bed that directs air to flow over the top of the truck reducing drag.
They proved it by taking identical trucks and filling them with equal amounts of fuel...guess which went the farthest.
_______________________________________________
RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
Calvin Firenze
Minmatar
Ministry of Destruction
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Posted - 2008.08.29 06:12:00 -
[14]
It was pretty ****ing sweet when they launched a frozen chicken through an airplane window.
I can't even remember what they were trying to prove, but I was entertained.
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
EVESpace
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Posted - 2008.08.29 06:21:00 -
[15]
Saw them hook up a 150? lb dummy to a seat in a car that was hooked up to a compressed air canister to see if they could make an ejection seat. It worked flawlessly.
But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.08.29 06:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Calvin Firenze
It was pretty ****ing sweet when they launched a frozen chicken through an airplane window.
I can't even remember what they were trying to prove, but I was entertained.
The Urban Legend is called The turkey cannon. The story dealt around France and America but I can't remember who sent what to who.
Basically how the story goes is that one group built jets and to test windshield strength they would fire chickens at the windshield to signify wind velocity impacts.
Well the other nation liked the idea and wanted to try it on their trains (I'm thinking this was France cause your trains are speed deamons compared to ours). So they sent the cannon over.
Well they launch a chicken at the train and the chicken blasts right through and smashes inside of the train destroying a instrument panel. Freaked out by this they redesign the windshield.
However the second shot fired and again went through the windshield destroying everything. Baffled the engineers set out and redisigned the windshield again.
A third shot did the same thing. Completely confused by this they sent a letter back describing everything that they did and the reply they got was: thaw chicken first.
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Tarek Tarazul
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Posted - 2008.08.29 06:45:00 -
[17]
I saw 3 shows from them. The first i couldn't judge, the other 2 were complete nonsense.
In the second they 'proved' that it was impossible to lift someone with helium filled balloons. Plain Stupid. Even more embarrassing since just the day before there was a show that did exactly that.
In the other they argued you couldn't lift a sunken ship with table tennis balls. Just as stupid. Every one has a certain ammount of buoyancy it adds to the total equation. As with firepower: if it doesn't work, you are just not using enough of it.
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Arvald
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.08.29 06:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tarek Tarazul
I saw 3 shows from them. The first i couldn't judge, the other 2 were complete nonsense.
In the second they 'proved' that it was impossible to lift someone with helium filled balloons. Plain Stupid. Even more embarrassing since just the day before there was a show that did exactly that.
In the other they argued you couldn't lift a sunken ship with table tennis balls. Just as stupid. Every one has a certain ammount of buoyancy it adds to the total equation. As with firepower: if it doesn't work, you are just not using enough of it.
its not that they proved you could not do it its that they proved that it is very very very implausible to do it due to the insane time/work/cost involved
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.08.29 07:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tarek Tarazul
I saw 3 shows from them. The first i couldn't judge, the other 2 were complete nonsense.
In the second they 'proved' that it was impossible to lift someone with helium filled balloons. Plain Stupid. Even more embarrassing since just the day before there was a show that did exactly that.
Incorrect. They proved that you couldn't fill a raft full of helium and fly off in it due to the weight of a person and raft. And for the second part they talked about a story of a small girl being lifted away by holding too many standard carnival balloons and they proved it was possible with like 200 balloons. Larry the Lawnchair flyer had nothing to do with that episode since that's not a myth.
If your gonna insult a show at least make the effort to watch it.
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RogueWing
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.29 07:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tarek Tarazul
In the other they argued you couldn't lift a sunken ship with table tennis balls. Just as stupid. Every one has a certain ammount of buoyancy it adds to the total equation.
You obviously didn't watch that show close enough.
They proved that you COULD lift a sunken ship with table tennis balls.
We don't want your region....we just want to smash all your stuff.... |
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
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Posted - 2008.08.29 09:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: RogueWing
Originally by: Tarek Tarazul
In the other they argued you couldn't lift a sunken ship with table tennis balls. Just as stupid. Every one has a certain ammount of buoyancy it adds to the total equation.
You obviously didn't watch that show close enough.
They proved that you COULD lift a sunken ship with table tennis balls.
I must have missed that one.
Slade
Originally by: Crumplecorn
NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine.
DesuSigs
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.29 10:08:00 -
[22]
mythbusters, breaking myths with the common man's knowledge since 2000?
also the show always has nice fireworks in the end.
I like fireworks.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Wil Smithx
Minmatar
Suns Of Korhal
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Posted - 2008.08.29 11:02:00 -
[23]
mythbusters fail at life!
Nothing I have seen on there has been very useful really...
Best example of this was when they did the steam cannon and they heated the stuff so they could flash the water.
But the put cold water in, if the water had been already boiling the amount of energy needed to vapourise would have been negligable compared to the amount needed to heat the water from 20oC to like prolly 110oC (since it was under pressure).
Their second mistake with this was the water should have been in a tall column since this would give the water a massive pressure head and increase the pressure in the flash drum even more.
To put it simply, they're a bit thick.
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Wil Smithx
Minmatar
Suns Of Korhal
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Posted - 2008.08.29 11:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: RogueWing
Originally by: Tarek Tarazul
In the other they argued you couldn't lift a sunken ship with table tennis balls. Just as stupid. Every one has a certain ammount of buoyancy it adds to the total equation.
You obviously didn't watch that show close enough.
They proved that you COULD lift a sunken ship with table tennis balls.
He obviously did watch that one, he just stated its fairly bleeding obvious that this is possible and you just failed to understand his statement on buoyancy.
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
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Posted - 2008.08.29 11:18:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 29/08/2008 11:18:42
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Nothing I have seen on there has been very useful really...
How about knowing that you can chill a six pack of bear on a hot sandy beach faster then you can in a freezer.
Slade
Originally by: Crumplecorn
NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine.
DesuSigs
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Bish Ounen
Gallente
Omni-Core Freedom Fighters
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.29 11:52:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Bish Ounen on 29/08/2008 11:53:38
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 29/08/2008 11:18:42
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Nothing I have seen on there has been very useful really...
How about knowing that you can chill a six pack of bear on a hot sandy beach faster then you can in a freezer.
Slade
That one was good. Some nice practical application.
Basically, if you fill a cooler with 80% ice, 20% water, and a cup of Salt, any drinks placed in that mixture will chill faster than in plain ice, or a standard freezer.
They also proved that trying to use Liquid Nitrogen is ridiculously impractical, as it flash freezes the beer rather than just making it cold.
Keep in mind that many of the "Myths" they bust are not so much actual science mysteries as much as they are simple Urban legends and Hollywood created confusion. Eg: scuba tank exploding at the end of jaws (busted), Dukes of Hazard style car jump and still drive away (busted), Using a life raft as a parachute Indiana Jones style (busted). While some of these may seem like common sense, many people still believe they are accurate. Thankfully, busting these does not take the same kind of scientific rigor that a proper scientific mystery would take.
Also, they cover some items that are purely science-related entertainment. The "Diet Coke and Mentos" episode is a great example. There isn't really a "Myth" to bust there, just a simple exploration of the mechanics of the phoenomena. While they aren't busting a myth there, in many ways it's actually more scientific.
So yes, don't bet your LIFE on anything you learn on Mythbusters. However, totally writing them off because they aren't a couple of boring guys in lab coats droning on about cubed roots and whatnot isn't an appropriate response either. In the end, it's a science-related entertainment show, and probably some of the best television available today.
So sit back, relax, and enjoy!
Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.08.29 12:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Arvald
Ok so ive been told by several people not to believe any of the testing/science that is done on the show mythbusters because somehow because its on tv completely nullifies the fact that it looks (to me anyways) that everything they are doing is correct, so what i guess im asking is, is what they are doing real science or just quality tv?
I really just treat it as entertainment with a fair amount of truth to it, but I wouldnt use it as a source for any sientific study that I was conducting.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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fairimear
Gallente
S.A.S
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.08.29 12:22:00 -
[28]
They are MYTHBUSTERS.
The extent of their claims when proving or disproving something is to the plausibility of the myths claim.
Myth's by definition have variation.
They do nothing but prove a variation of a myth they have heard of wrong or right while trying to achieve similar circumstances.
The very fact they are proving myths wrong or right by definition dictates that scientific control is often going to be hard or impossible.
And the FACT is that no matter what they prove or disprove even then the chances are that they are only ever going to be 50% right as the very nature of some of the things they take up are 1 in a billion odds of happening any way.
They show is well worth watching for entertainment alone (think topgear) but it does serve to prove fanboys wrong often.
The episode where they looked at the upside down ocean bottom boat scene from Potc shut my sister up.
The assualt rifle into water and the caraxel pull away episodes are also good ones.
Makeing your npc hunters SS. |
Wil Smithx
Minmatar
Suns Of Korhal
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Posted - 2008.08.29 14:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Edited by: Bish Ounen on 29/08/2008 11:53:38
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 29/08/2008 11:18:42
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Nothing I have seen on there has been very useful really...
How about knowing that you can chill a six pack of bear on a hot sandy beach faster then you can in a freezer.
Slade
That one was good. Some nice practical application.
Basically, if you fill a cooler with 80% ice, 20% water, and a cup of Salt, any drinks placed in that mixture will chill faster than in plain ice, or a standard freezer.
They also proved that trying to use Liquid Nitrogen is ridiculously impractical, as it flash freezes the beer rather than just making it cold.
Keep in mind that many of the "Myths" they bust are not so much actual science mysteries as much as they are simple Urban legends and Hollywood created confusion. Eg: scuba tank exploding at the end of jaws (busted), Dukes of Hazard style car jump and still drive away (busted), Using a life raft as a parachute Indiana Jones style (busted). While some of these may seem like common sense, many people still believe they are accurate. Thankfully, busting these does not take the same kind of scientific rigor that a proper scientific mystery would take.
Also, they cover some items that are purely science-related entertainment. The "Diet Coke and Mentos" episode is a great example. There isn't really a "Myth" to bust there, just a simple exploration of the mechanics of the phoenomena. While they aren't busting a myth there, in many ways it's actually more scientific.
So yes, don't bet your LIFE on anything you learn on Mythbusters. However, totally writing them off because they aren't a couple of boring guys in lab coats droning on about cubed roots and whatnot isn't an appropriate response either. In the end, it's a science-related entertainment show, and probably some of the best television available today.
So sit back, relax, and enjoy!
Well that cooling beer thing is fairly obvious since water with ice in mixed with salt can reach similar temps to a freezer and water has much better heat transfer properties than air. I would imagine just putting beer in water would cool it faster than putting it in a freezer (to a limit ofc).
I wouldn't call it the best tv we have, I would say it was some of the worst but then I don't watch tv because of the utter crap thats on and I even have sky.
All I really watch are films, and I'm incredibly critical of those too.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.08.29 15:12:00 -
[30]
I actually find the science on the show to be pretty good for amateurs.
Part of the fun of the show is looking at how they try to solve a problem coming from a rather different background. The are builders, and they work with what they do know in order to try to figure stuff out.
It should also be noted that they do a lot of stuff off-camera that is a bit too dull for actual viewing but is a bit more scientific, like multiple runs or variations on an experiment.
Now, from a scientific perspective, what they do is actually pretty 'correct'. not from a _research_ perspective granted, but from science. They start with a hypothesis, they figure out a way to test it, they give the viewer all (most of the time) the info someone else would need to reproduce their results, and then they actually do the experiment. If the results don't match the hypothesis, they revise. in short, they are actually a pretty good example of the scientific method.
From a role model perspective, they are showing the basic 'figure it out!' matra, which is a good thing to teach young scientists and engineers. Not only figure it out, but figure it out with what you have access too. Try to build models, analogues, , etc... small scale test first, feasability testing, etc. it's actually pretty good stuff.
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