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Why we need a significant BOOST to L4 missions

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Author	Topic
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:04:00 - [1] Currently L4 missions are tedious and boring. Once you've done a mission a few times, you have pretty much mastered what it takes to complete it. What this means is that missions turn into a grind a few days after you move up a level in the mission hierarchy. There is no "end-game" for mission runners. In fact, the progression is quite linear. You can make it slightly more interesting by trying a different ship than the Raven at L4, but it usually just amounts to costing more in ammo or time. +1 to the boring factor. You can barely ever grind missions to the point of constant overwhelming profit as the whines have always speculated. Drone missions are not really worth the time and some racial wrecks leave no salvage at all. Tack on the fact that a declined mission will cost you 4 hours of waiting and the fact most profitable missions are an investment of a couple hours of your time, and +1 more to the boring factor. Long story short, missions need love. If PVE is not an intended function of the game, remove it. Otherwise give it some spice and variety. Give us the option of choice a bit more than we have around election time. Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish.
Dave Davies	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:22:00 - [2] That's exactly why we need a nerf: so that isk- making activities with more interesting/ challenging career trajectories become economically competitive and players don't get stuck in the rut of crappy PvE grinding. ----- Pop Quiz ----- Can you tell me what's wrong with this sentence.
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:30:00 - [3] Originally by: Dave Davies That's exactly why we need a nerf: so that isk- making activities with more interesting/ challenging career trajectories become economically competitive and players don't get stuck in the rut of crappy PvE grinding. Then by your own admission, L4 missions need buffed to the same level as other career choices. Because L4 mission income does not even come close to the level of moon-mining, ratting in 0.0, ship production in Sov secure systems, exploration and complexes, gas cloud harvesting, etc. Thanks for helping my case. Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:33:00 - [4] Level 4's need to be moved to lowsec and then they can get boosted Originally by: Lorz0r garmon is 90% Surfin's PlunderBunny, 10% er...Surfin's PlunderBunny
SSgt Sniper Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:34:00 - [5] Originally by: Empyre Currently L4 missions are tedious and boring. Once you've done a mission a few times, you have pretty much mastered what it takes to complete it. What this means is that missions turn into a grind a few days after you move up a level in the mission hierarchy. There is no "end-game" for mission runners. In fact, the progression is quite linear. You can make it slightly more interesting by trying a different ship than the Raven at L4, but it usually just amounts to costing more in ammo or time. +1 to the boring factor. You can barely ever grind missions to the point of constant overwhelming profit as the whines have always speculated. Drone missions are not really worth the time and some racial wrecks leave no salvage at all. Tack on the fact that a declined mission will cost you 4 hours of waiting and the fact most profitable missions are an investment of a couple hours of your time, and +1 more to the boring factor. Long story short, missions need love. If PVE is not an intended function of the game, remove it. Otherwise give it some spice and variety. Give us the option of choice a bit more than we have around election time. Says you. I find them a welcome relaxation after work. We also sometimes do them as a corp and each take different roles in each mission. Just because they can be boring doesn't mean you can't have fun at them. And I definitely don't do it for the money, my money making is all industrial. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
Dave Davies	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Empyre Thanks for helping my case. If you think so. ----- Pop Quiz ----- Can you tell me what's wrong with this sentence.
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:36:00 - [7] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Level 4's need to be moved to lowsec and then they can get boosted They are already boosted when done in low sec. More LPs and mission pay on average. It is good that CCP has given the players the choice to go for these extra rewards or take what you are given in high sec. "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:39:00 - [8] Quote: They are already boosted when done in low sec. More LPs and mission pay on average. It is good that CCP has given the players the choice to go for these extra rewards or take what you are given in high sec. A mission that pays 150 LPs in .5 will pay 191 in .1. Big ****ing whoop.
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: They are already boosted when done in low sec. More LPs and mission pay on average. It is good that CCP has given the players the choice to go for these extra rewards or take what you are given in high sec. A mission that pays 150 LPs in .5 will pay 191 in .1. Big ****ing whoop. And if these carebears are doing them as often as you moronic trolls claim, that extra 41 LPs adds up pretty fast. Doesn't it? "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:41:00 - [10] Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 29/08/2008 04:44:06 If you think missions are boring and take no effort, go do em in low sec, there you'll have to watch out for predators, will have to prepare and put thought in your actions and at the same time you will have to work together with others to secure the area, you know... interaction and all. All of a sudden they take more effort and are less boring, and you'll also make more money on them as well. What? that wasn't what you meant? Oh, you meant make non-effort, low-risk boring stuff in a pvp game even more rewarding? How about dailies, lets introduce those, would that help?

Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:46:00 - [11] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada What? that wasn't what you meant? Oh, you meant make non-effort, low-risk boring stuff in a pvp game even more rewarding? Trading is easier, requires MUCH less skill training, less risky than even missions and is also done in high sec. Not to mention it is almost like making isk afk. I guess that should be nerfed first? "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:48:00 - [12] Trading is pvp, if you make a profit someone else made a loss.
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Trading is pvp, if you make a profit someone else made a loss. Actually missions are pvp. The mission runners are traders. You do understand the concept of the rats dropping loot right? Mission runners sell their minerals on the market or use them for industry where they in turn, make products which will be sold on the market. Mission running is just another path to trading really. "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:56:00 - [14] Edited by: Empyre on 29/08/2008 04:57:24 Originally by: SSgt Sniper Says you. I find them a welcome relaxation after work. We also sometimes do them as a corp and each take different roles in each mission. Just because they can be boring doesn't mean you can't have fun at them. And I definitely don't do it for the money, my money making is all industrial. Come back and talk to me after you've been running them a few years. I'm not saying they are complete bore, otherwise I wouldn't do them. They are a boring grind after you've run them enough, though. When there is no variety, no change, things get redundant and turn very quickly into a grind. I will admit there is a lot more variety in the lower level missions, but most people are through those with a few social skills training. I still run L2s on an alt and sometimes L3s on this character for the fun factor, but that is surely not a route for profit. A single 0.0 rat or ratting in lo-sec will give you much more isk than running L1/2s. Not that this is a bad thing, but it surely doesn't promote doing those missions for much else but the fun factor or lack of ability to run higher. edit: fixed a sentence that wrapped around itself. Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish.
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:57:00 - [15] Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 29/08/2008 04:59:51 @Kelli The activity itself is effortless pve grinding, the partial result is an asset that can be traded. Subtle difference. Besides, by your theory mining is PVP as well.
Dave Davies	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:57:00 - [16] Originally by: Kelli Flay Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Trading is pvp, if you make a profit someone else made a loss. Actually missions are pvp. The mission runners are traders. You do understand the concept of the rats dropping loot right? Mission runners sell their minerals on the market or use them for industry where they in turn, make products which will be sold on the market. Mission running is just another path to trading really. This thread = comedy gold. But just to humor you for a moment, I guess that means missioners don't need to get paid cash by NPCs whilst in the process of gathering their "trading stock," right? ----- Pop Quiz ----- Can you tell me what's wrong with this sentence.
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:59:00 - [17] @Empyre I honestly can't see how one could do missions for the fun factor (unless it's a group effort and you're just using it as an IRC chat session :P), especially not for any prolonged period of time. I have difficulty is graspign the mindset for that (no bashing intended).
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:59:00 - [18] Edited by: Empyre on 29/08/2008 05:01:39 Originally by: Dave Davies This thread = comedy gold. But just to humor you for a moment, I guess that means missioners don't need to get paid cash by NPCs whilst in the process of gathering their "trading stock," right? By this logic, you should take away the ability for a pvper to loot/salvage a wreck. You should also take away a traders ability to gain profit from npc bounties. And while we're at it, let's also take away the ability of a moon-miner to sell their products in high-sec. Makes just about as much sense. Originally by: Cygnus Zhada @Empyre I honestly can't see how one could do missions for the fun factor (unless it's a group effort and you're just using it as an IRC chat session :P), especially not for any prolonged period of time. I have difficulty is graspign the mindset for that (no bashing intended). When missions are what you've spent several years of Eve time doing and mastering, watching grass grow is fun. In this sense, the faster pace, speed tank needing ability of the lower level missions are a welcome change. Is it so hard to believe that running missions can be as chosen and singular a profession as anything else in the game? Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish.
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.08.29 05:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Dave Davies Originally by: Kelli Flay Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Trading is pvp, if you make a profit someone else made a loss. Actually missions are pvp. The mission runners are traders. You do understand the concept of the rats dropping loot right? Mission runners sell their minerals on the market or use them for industry where they in turn, make products which will be sold on the market. Mission running is just another path to trading really. This thread = comedy gold. But just to humor you for a moment, I guess that means missioners don't need to get paid cash by NPCs whilst in the process of gathering their "trading stock," right? Actually, you are right. I wouldn't care if they took mission pay away because the REAL isk comes from the loot, minerals from alloys, and salvage. The million isk the npc is giving me is pretty laughable. Laughable like your post tbh. "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Dave Davies	Posted - 2008.08.29 05:03:00 - [20] Edited by: Dave Davies on 29/08/2008 05:04:17 Originally by: Kelli Flay Actually, you are right. I wouldn't care if they took mission pay away because the REAL isk comes from the loot, minerals from alloys, and salvage. The million isk the npc is giving me is pretty laughable. Laughable like your post tbh. ... AND bounties. AND LP. Get rid of those too, call it a boost, and you've got yourself a deal. ----- Pop Quiz ----- Can you tell me what's wrong with this sentence.

Karlemgne Ghosts of the Revolution The Red Skull	Posted - 2008.08.29 05:08:00 - [21] I'm a pirate, and I say bullshit to this. There is nothing wrong with high-sec level 4s. People are *****ing because there aren't enough targets? Its not as simple as that. -Karlemgne
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.08.29 05:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 29/08/2008 04:59:51 @Kelli The activity itself is effortless pve grinding, the partial result is an asset that can be traded. Subtle difference. Besides, by your theory mining is PVP as well. Define "effortless." Do you have any idea how much time investment is needed to make really good isk running missions? You need pvp skills, refining skills, trading skills, salvaging skills. After that, you have a long climb up the standing ladder to get to those top quality lvl 4's. After you do all that, you get to do the same boring activity over and over. Regardless of what you think, it isn't something you can do afk like Mining or Trading. All of this for what? Maybe 15 million an hour? {not counting the by extra bonuses such as salvage for rigs, ect....activities which take even more time and effort} Have you ever even ran missions or are you just regurgitating all those urban legends you have read off of these forums? "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.29 05:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Empyre Is it so hard to believe that running missions can be as chosen and singular a profession as anything else in the game? To me? yes, so very much yes. I can not understand why people would be happy to "compete" with some dumb AI over and over again. Ever since I tasted my first online (or actually network, quake ftw) player versus player scenario I simply can not play single player games anymore, unless they're of the awesome variety, stuff like Halflife and all that. Still after having played that I rush back to player vs player games/content. Again, not meant to bash or anything, it genuinly can not understand why people would play an online game, and then do PVE/AI stuff predominantly. You'd be better off playing X3, no cost, still has bugs so it wouldn't feel out of place and the AI is actually better.
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.08.29 05:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Dave Davies Edited by: Dave Davies on 29/08/2008 05:04:17 Originally by: Kelli Flay Actually, you are right. I wouldn't care if they took mission pay away because the REAL isk comes from the loot, minerals from alloys, and salvage. The million isk the npc is giving me is pretty laughable. Laughable like your post tbh. ... AND bounties. AND LP. Get rid of those too, call it a boost, and you've got yourself a deal. Actually, i don't need to barter with your clueless self. You need to convince CCP. Good luck. "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.29 05:11:00 - [25] Originally by: Kelli Flay Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 29/08/2008 04:59:51 @Kelli The activity itself is effortless pve grinding, the partial result is an asset that can be traded. Subtle difference. Besides, by your theory mining is PVP as well. Define "effortless." Do you have any idea how much time investment is needed to make really good isk running missions? You need pvp skills, refining skills, trading skills, salvaging skills. After that, you have a long climb up the standing ladder to get to those top quality lvl 4's. After you do all that, you get to do the same boring activity over and over. Regardless of what you think, it isn't something you can do afk like Mining or Trading. All of this for what? Maybe 15 million an hour? {not counting the by extra bonuses such as salvage for rigs, ect....activities which take even more time and effort} Have you ever even ran missions or are you just regurgitating all those urban legends you have read off of these forums? You mean like getting to 70, grinding faction and grinding pvp to get gear, then grind raids to gain more gear with the ultimate goal to... grind faster. No, I don't understand that, that's exactly my problem. If I would I'd be playing WOW because it's so much better at that, I started playing EVE because it WASN'T like that.
Dave Davies	Posted - 2008.08.29 05:11:00 - [26] Edited by: Dave Davies on 29/08/2008 05:12:13 Originally by: Kelli Flay Actually, i don't need to barter with your clueless self. You need to convince CCP. Good luck. Aw c'mon, I thought you were fine with loot and salvage! I thought you were a horse trader in a passive Drake, what happened? ----- Pop Quiz ----- Can you tell me what's wrong with this sentence.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.29 05:13:00 - [27] If you haven't noticed, the lvl 4 whines are in direct response to the nano nerf. In other words, nanoweenies need to find something better to do. This all goes back to carebears vs chestpoppers... when we all damn well know everyone here just plays the game. If you think for a second you can pigeon hole me or anyone into some category, then please graduate from junior high school and get a life. The only thing that needs a buff is low sec rewards. People who grind lvl 4s are putting in time and effort to grind pretty much a sub par income compared to what is out there. It's their grind, so let them grind... I don't care. Moving all lvl 4's to low sec is stupid... even having some lvl 5's there is dumb. What's the point in doing an npc event just to have your day ruined by some shithead with nothing better to do? You all talk about risk vs reward, but quite frankly the reward from lvl 4 or 5s are worth the risk of the npc ships you go against. You should pay missioners a HELL of a lot more if you expect them to have the risk of pvpers! 2 cents. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Disposeble Alt Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.29 05:13:00 - [28] I am happy to inform you that ccp has anticipated your feelings towards level 4 missions. Some time ago they have introduced level 5 missions that are even more chalanging and offer huge lp rewards. Before you complain these are in low sec, Let me tell you that they had to be in low sec as many allow the use of capital ships. Once you are run in to boredom issues with level 5 missions you can coimplain there is no endgame for you in mission running. Posts by alts hide political affiliation and history. No political statement by any alt should be taken seriously.
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.08.29 05:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Dave Davies Edited by: Dave Davies on 29/08/2008 05:12:13 Originally by: Kelli Flay Actually, i don't need to barter with your clueless self. You need to convince CCP. Good luck. Aw c'mon, I thought you were fine with loot and salvage! I thought you were a horse trader in a passive Drake, what happened? Actually, I don't run missions any more. I trade for isk on this alt and my main is my pvp character. I never flew a Drake in a mission either. Stereotypes for the loss. "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Dave Davies	Posted - 2008.08.29 05:17:00 - [30] Originally by: Kelli Flay Actually, I don't run missions any more. I trade for isk on this alt and my main is my pvp character. I never flew a Drake in a mission either. Stereotypes for the loss. You are as gracious in concession as you are fierce in the heat of disputation. ----- Pop Quiz ----- Can you tell me what's wrong with this sentence.

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