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Cailais
Amarr VITOC
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Posted - 2008.08.29 13:42:00 -
[1]
Something Ive noticed for a while now is that even the merest hint of an 'idea' or 'suggestion' in a forum post and the post gets rapidly shunted across to the F&I forum.
Which would be a good thing of course, otherwise the forums will end up full of 'eureeka' posts as players solve "lag, nanos the universe and everything" whilst playing with rubber duckies in the bath.
I say would be a good idea. But the trouble is, a lot of these posts just die in the F&I forum, the great dustbin of EVE ideas and suggestions. F&I is pretty much devoid of Dev interaction beyond the very occasional post. Checking Chribba's EVE FILES there are literally thousands of ideas forgoten, rehashed, necroed and dumped again - posts on Bounty Hunting changes going back years for example.
The Devs claim they read these ideas but theres no real evidence of that, the 'in development' board remains hopelessly outdated, even dev stickied posts bereft of dev comments.
Is there a point to F&I beyond acting as a great garbage can of often great ideas?
C.
Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.08.29 13:57:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/08/2008 13:57:40 While i normally(read almost every time) try to see the other side of things and bring balance to complaints and things, this, is not one of those times.
The F&I is a great forum idea, but it is, simply a theory and not an accurate definition of what it should be.
Maybe it's the lack of discussion of ideas, maybe it's the lack of controversy causing that lack of discussion, maybe it's the lack of "seal of approvement" from CCP, but it is, in general, a dumping ground.
Even the best, those ideas that are HUMANGOUS and EVE-changing with no objections, that people agree to 110% of all species, races and professions, it won't take a week for the idea to be forgotten.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.08.29 14:06:00 -
[3]
Yeah, unless you start campaigning your ideas and drop a link in fresh topics that are somewhat about your idea, they will be forgotten and auto-locked after 90 days.
It is kinda disenchanting. Me, personally, would invest more effort into developing some ideas, I have on the back burner, if it wouldn't feel like such a waste of time.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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Asestorian
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.29 14:33:00 -
[4]
The problem with the forum is that most people don't know it exists. Quite frankly, I think such an important forum could be moved up a bit to become more visible to most people.
---
Quote: EVE is unfair by design.
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CCP Navigator
C C P
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Posted - 2008.08.29 14:41:00 -
[5]
Features and Ideas is absolutely not the dustbin of the forums. On the contrary it is the ideal place for every player to post game changing features and ideas.
Part of the role of every Community Representative is to find threads that would be of interest to Content or Game Design and link those threads to the Depts on a regular basis. I personally tend to link quite a few threads from F&I through to the correct people whenever possible.
I also know that many of the Developers within those Depts will read F&I much more regularly than GD. So the truth of the matter is that game changing ideas are much better off in that section
Navigator Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Email / Netfang
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Thenoran
Caldari Border Rim Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.08.29 14:43:00 -
[6]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Features and Ideas is absolutely not the dustbin of the forums. On the contrary it is the ideal place for every player to post game changing features and ideas.
Part of the role of every Community Representative is to find threads that would be of interest to Content or Game Design and link those threads to the Depts on a regular basis. I personally tend to link quite a few threads from F&I through to the correct people whenever possible.
I also know that many of the Developers within those Depts will read F&I much more regularly than GD. So the truth of the matter is that game changing ideas are much better off in that section
So they are often read but not replied to? A little vote of confidence that the idea gets some CCP support would go a long way to getting support I think. ------------------------ Ship Yield Calc Improve Mining |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.08.29 15:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/08/2008 15:05:31
Originally by: CCP Navigator Features and Ideas is absolutely not the dustbin of the forums. On the contrary it is the ideal place for every player to post game changing features and ideas.
Part of the role of every Community Representative is to find threads that would be of interest to Content or Game Design and link those threads to the Depts on a regular basis. I personally tend to link quite a few threads from F&I through to the correct people whenever possible.
I also know that many of the Developers within those Depts will read F&I much more regularly than GD. So the truth of the matter is that game changing ideas are much better off in that section
Aye, good to hear. This is what i was "worried" about. A little "noted" post from devs would go a long way in boosting peoples idea lairs and to ensure them that they're not just "posting for the novelty".
This post alone gave alot of insurance towards things actually being read, it's just a "it seems" thread afterall
Also as a "idea" for the GMs; make a sticky with appropriate "props to where they're deserved" on the section that lists ideas that are/might/will be useful for devs. also helps to eliminate 30 posts about ship fitting tools
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
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CCP Navigator
C C P
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Posted - 2008.08.29 15:14:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/08/2008 15:05:31
Originally by: CCP Navigator Features and Ideas is absolutely not the dustbin of the forums. On the contrary it is the ideal place for every player to post game changing features and ideas.
Part of the role of every Community Representative is to find threads that would be of interest to Content or Game Design and link those threads to the Depts on a regular basis. I personally tend to link quite a few threads from F&I through to the correct people whenever possible.
I also know that many of the Developers within those Depts will read F&I much more regularly than GD. So the truth of the matter is that game changing ideas are much better off in that section
Aye, good to hear. This is what i was "worried" about. A little "noted" post from devs would go a long way in boosting peoples idea lairs and to ensure them that they're not just "posting for the novelty".
This post alone gave alot of insurance towards things actually being read, it's just a "it seems" thread afterall
Also as a "idea" for the GMs; make a sticky with appropriate "props to where they're deserved" on the section that lists ideas that are/might/will be useful for devs. also helps to eliminate 30 posts about ship fitting tools
What you are proposing has a lot of merit and I will see if we can incorporate some of that in the future.
The problem that can exist in terms of Developer replies to good or bad features and ideas are numerous. For example we may find a thread and think "This would make a good addition" but it may be weeks or months before it reaches a development stage. During testing it may then prove that implementation causes significant bad side affects or balancing issues.
So now we are left with the problem that a Developer says "Good idea!" and nothing comes from it.
This could result in player anger at being told one thing and nothing happening. This is absolutely something we would want to avoid.
Navigator Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Email / Netfang
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.08.29 15:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Navigator What you are proposing has a lot of merit and I will see if we can incorporate some of that in the future.
The problem that can exist in terms of Developer replies to good or bad features and ideas are numerous. For example we may find a thread and think "This would make a good addition" but it may be weeks or months before it reaches a development stage. During testing it may then prove that implementation causes significant bad side affects or balancing issues.
So now we are left with the problem that a Developer says "Good idea!" and nothing comes from it.
This could result in player anger at being told one thing and nothing happening. This is absolutely something we would want to avoid.
Understandable completely.
Maybe you need some form of "dev peeked at this" gold star on things, that would tell people that "yes we looked at it, can't promise aything". |
Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.08.29 15:31:00 -
[10]
Its more a problem with actual usage than the defined role of the different forums. F&I is a fine idea IF people actually used it near as much as GD. Problem is you don't get much discussion on ideas in F&I like you can in GD.
Why? Because most lurk around GD and pounce on things they see here. You could post the exact same thing in F&I and GD and get totally different responses. Unfortunately you're more likely to get a far better discussion about it in GD because of the differences in number of readers.
That's why it seems like a dustbin. Not so much because of anything CCP is doing (although devs dropping into posts couldn't hurt), but what us forum ho's are not doing.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.08.29 15:33:00 -
[11]
I actually find it more like a chess/science club of a highschool. Rest of school won't go there, but the ones in there have serious and rather "well put" argumented discussions from time to time.
It's actually rather good it's a bit secluded, those with ideas and who want to discuss ideas do and it leaves a bit of the flame outside.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Cailais
Amarr VITOC
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Posted - 2008.08.29 15:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
The problem that can exist in terms of Developer replies to good or bad features and ideas are numerous. For example we may find a thread and think "This would make a good addition" but it may be weeks or months before it reaches a development stage. During testing it may then prove that implementation causes significant bad side affects or balancing issues.
So now we are left with the problem that a Developer says "Good idea!" and nothing comes from it.
This could result in player anger at being told one thing and nothing happening. This is absolutely something we would want to avoid.
True enough, but what happens now is probably worse. Currently players post ideas to F&I and have no idea if the Devs think its a good suggestion or if anything will happen. In essence the players arent being told one thing they being told nothing.
The result of that is the enthusiasm to post an idea rapidly dwindles -
"Was my idea any good, achievable, worthy of more discussion? I havent a clue. Is there any point in carrying on? Probably not..."
Even those posts that do get some Dev response are rarely returned to ('Flogging the Dead Horse POS post' as a classic example). What's even worse is the posts where the Devs actively ask for feedback, and then seem to just loose interest (Soveriegnty thread, FW thread to name but two).
So what we end up with are 'commonly posted topics' with no clue as to what the Devs think, and then a tiresome repetition of 'Bounty Hunting Solution' threads.
If a post is interesting, with a well though out idea why not have a bit more of a response? A dev from design saying 'this is definitely something we'll look at" followed by the Art Department "yeah we thought of this here are some rough sketches" and the tech guys "simply impossible at the moment - looks great in theory, would crash the server in seconds" - anything really.
Even a dev 'gold star of being noted' would go some way to indicating a threads worth elaboration.
This is really what many are asking for in terms of CCP interaction otherwise we (the players) just end up talking, and eventually arguing with, ourselves.
C.
Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.08.29 16:23:00 -
[13]
I've posted a number of ideas in this section over the years on various characters that ultimately ended up in the game in one form or another. I have no idea whether my post had anything to do with that or not, but I have always suspected that they are "harvesting" ideas from here. The dev post above confirms it. Thanks Navigator.
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Synapse Archae
Amarr Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.08.29 17:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
So now we are left with the problem that a Developer says "Good idea!" and nothing comes from it.
This could result in player anger at being told one thing and nothing happening. This is absolutely something we would want to avoid.
I would much prefer that 1,000 times over than the silence we have now.
Originally by: CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.08.29 17:45:00 -
[15]
I "complained" about some details in the aggro mechanics in F&I twice. Both things got taken care of in the next patch, but I bet that's pure coincidence.
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.08.29 17:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Thenoran
Originally by: CCP Navigator Features and Ideas is absolutely not the dustbin of the forums. On the contrary it is the ideal place for every player to post game changing features and ideas.
Part of the role of every Community Representative is to find threads that would be of interest to Content or Game Design and link those threads to the Depts on a regular basis. I personally tend to link quite a few threads from F&I through to the correct people whenever possible.
I also know that many of the Developers within those Depts will read F&I much more regularly than GD. So the truth of the matter is that game changing ideas are much better off in that section
So they are often read but not replied to? A little vote of confidence that the idea gets some CCP support would go a long way to getting support I think.
this, otherwise, people are going to keep posting it in general discussion, which is like read by everyone
im going to assume people do things like me, in which when i go on a forum whoring spell, i go to C&P, General Discussion, OOPE , and Intergalactic summit sometimes (mainly because its funny to watch when a victorious corp makes a losing corp publicly surrender) sometimes i go to F&I but not nearly as much as before because it is simply NOT read very much
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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Khrillian
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.29 18:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CCP Navigator So now we are left with the problem that a Developer says "Good idea!" and nothing comes from it.
This could result in player anger at being told one thing and nothing happening. This is absolutely something we would want to avoid.
Wouldn't responding with some caveats be better than no response at all? I completely see how it would be a problem to have devs endorsing proposals left and right and having nothing come of them. However, if they just say "your idea sounds great, I hope something can be done like it, however because of [assorted balance/technical/developer time constraint reasons] it may not be feasible."
I really think players are just looking for more signals that the devs care about F&I - beyond simply stating "we care about F&I." So just post more often maybe?
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