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Captator
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.09.02 22:51:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: bldyannoyed My Zealot setup does 550DPS @ 36Km in its anti-support fit (which is basically the same as my Muninn fit)
Zealot fit plx? I'm curious and I always like zealot fits.
Something along these lines -
[Zealot, beam antisupport] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M
Targeting System Subcontroller I Targeting System Subcontroller I
Personally I would favour a pulse version (that which lyria uses in IAC in latest vid)
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.09.03 00:58:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Captator
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: bldyannoyed My Zealot setup does 550DPS @ 36Km in its anti-support fit (which is basically the same as my Muninn fit)
Zealot fit plx? I'm curious and I always like zealot fits.
Something along these lines -
[Zealot, beam antisupport] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M
Targeting System Subcontroller I Targeting System Subcontroller I
Personally I would favour a pulse version (that which lyria uses in IAC in latest vid)
Ah beams that'll do it. Yeah, I use a pulse version and it works beautifully. caps out at just over 500 dps with scorch, but that's at like 65km, and it does over 600 at 22km with MF. __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.09.03 02:00:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Sinaitra Liang just leave, I never wanted you posting here and i was wondering how long before you came shouting all your crap.
Nobody cares what you think, nobody wants you in the this post or on any other post in the forum.
Go flame/troll elsewhere and just leave quietly.
-Not Liang (thank god.)
I lol'd
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.09.03 02:35:00 -
[94]
Originally by: AstroPhobic I lol'd
Funnily enough, so did I.
-Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi |
Kryss'tal
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Posted - 2008.09.03 05:20:00 -
[95]
I haven't flown one of these in over a year, and I haven't seen anyone fly one since I can't remember.
Sniping ships suck. Half the ships in the game can close with a sniper in a few short seconds due to the overwhelming prevalence of nanoships. The entire idea behind long range support is moot, if what you're shooting at can get under your guns in seconds and then kill you in less time than it took to fly towards you.
What this ship desperately needs is a LOT more PG and another mid slot. Then maybe it will start to fit in with the rest of the damage dealing HAC's in the game.
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Delichon
The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.09.03 06:22:00 -
[96]
Liang, you missed my point in Drake+Bassilisk comparison.
1 Bas may suck compared to 1 Onerios. 1 Drake may suck compared to 1 Harbi.
But if 7 Drakes + 3 Bas pwn 3 Onerios + 7 Harbies, that saying that either Drake or bas suck is counterintuitive. I am ok if my ship "sucks" in 1 on 1 comparison as long as it kills stuff more effectively in a properly set situation and gang than anything my enemy can master. It is the KMs that matter in the end, not the figures.
For Muninn a proper curcumstance seems to be a) 3-4 additional munnins, all set in a similar fit b) fast Rappiers to web the primary c) ECM to mitigate poor tank. Yeah, it is not a cookie-cutter nano-vaga, where "the more - the merrier" approach is used - which would make it less interesting for individual pilots ("Why should I train a specialized ship, that require a specialized gang that my corp can't provide?")
But ability to generate out of the box ideas, compile them into out of the box tactics is what make Eve a real-time strategy rather than FPS.
FPS is what you have on SiSi.
P.S. another example: t1 cloak is a weak pvp module. Raven with t1 cloak is an awful pvp ship. But in proper curcumstances... Can you say "Burn Eden"? ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next.
EVE A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun |
Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.09.03 06:44:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Delichon Liang, you missed my point in Drake+Bassilisk comparison.
I didn't miss your comparison. As you state it, it does not apply to the Muninn. The Muninn is strictly good against small ships and in small numbers. After that, you should have brought a different ship (Zealot/Eagle/Cerb/Etc).
The biggest offender is really the ultra tiny clip.
-Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi |
Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood
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Posted - 2008.09.03 06:51:00 -
[98]
I only really red first page, and I can't be arsed to go play with EFT or w/e, but most of the people on front page were complaining about arty tracking and how arty generally sucks... seems to me that, once everybody gets slowed down by a speed nerf, arty should become just a little bit more effect by default?
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.09.03 07:03:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Havohej I only really red first page, and I can't be arsed to go play with EFT or w/e, but most of the people on front page were complaining about arty tracking and how arty generally sucks... seems to me that, once everybody gets slowed down by a speed nerf, arty should become just a little bit more effect by default?
Though it's a good thought, no. There have been dozens of threads about why artillery sucks, but there are a vast number of reasons for it.
A few: - HP Boost reduced effectiveness of alpha - Other ships have roughly equivalent alpha and much better DPS - Poor tracking - Low clip size - Low DPS
A few bonuses: - Capless - Semi selectable damage types (this is not as real as it sounds)
-Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi |
loot venda
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Posted - 2008.09.03 07:41:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Liang Nuren A few: - HP Boost reduced effectiveness of alpha - Other ships have roughly equivalent alpha and much better DPS - Poor tracking - Low clip size - Low DPS
A few bonuses: - Capless - Semi selectable damage types (this is not as real as it sounds)
-Liang
Actually, you have gone and missed the biggest reason: nano is trendy -> range advantages mean much less than how much you spent on your mwd.
Ships designed to work in medium-ranges tend to suck in these days where "get close -> pwn" is the dominant combat strategy.
I expect this will be a much more useful ship after the speed patch.
Also, you poor babies might care to remember that the poor eagle does less dps until the range is > 100km.
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Delichon
The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.09.03 08:05:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I didn't miss your comparison. As you state it, it does not apply to the Muninn. The Muninn is strictly good against small ships and in small numbers. After that, you should have brought a different ship (Zealot/Eagle/Cerb/Etc).
One question before I leave this thread:
The bolded part is it based on your experience? Like - you tried flying with multiple Muninns and specified support and it totally failed and you wished you were in a Cerb/Zealot.
Or you flew a Muninn yourself in a generic "x in ally chat" gang and didn't feel that you contribute as much to the fight as you could have been, if you were in a Cerb/Zealot? ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next.
EVE A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun |
bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.09.03 13:12:00 -
[102]
This is from experience.
If you are the only Muninn (fast lock alpha fitted ofc) in a mixed size gang you will become some kind of celebrity as you seem to almost single handedly annihilate every frigate sized hull your gang comes across, pod everyone that needs podding and top all the cruiser KM's as your first 2 vollies tends to do half the damage a tech1 cruiser soaks up before it pops.
Having 2 Muninns in the same gang doesnt really do anyone any favors though, and as soon as you come against a competent hostile gang you'll feel useless. Sure you'll nail one or two of the hostile support ships in the first few seconds of the engagement, but once everything gets rolling you are no use to anyone.
If you get to 100KM to start trying to snipe even Tech 1 frigs can prove a problem, and if you hang around at close ( EMP ) range your dps is so low you would quite literally be better off in any other HAC, BC, hell even some Tech 1 Cruiser fits will out dps you. And at least you'd be able to tackle or possibly even survive being shot once or twice before you die.
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Satura
Most Wanted INC
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:33:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Satura on 03/09/2008 20:34:53 The dps is not bad tbh. Got x18.5 and hit like a truck with EMP. Muninn kinda sucks when in 1-2 man gang when you need to gank something fast and you are reloading when the other guy is in half structure...that just happened to me.
edit: increase the clip size pls.:)
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:11:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 03/09/2008 21:12:45
Originally by: Delichon
One question before I leave this thread:
The bolded part is it based on your experience? Like - you tried flying with multiple Muninns and specified support and it totally failed and you wished you were in a Cerb/Zealot.
Or you flew a Muninn yourself in a generic "x in ally chat" gang and didn't feel that you contribute as much to the fight as you could have been, if you were in a Cerb/Zealot?
This is from actual experience. In a gank situation on a gatecamp, Muninns/snipercanes will destroy most frig sized hulls that come through. But once the battle is joined with anything approaching a reasonable fight, your clip size, overall low DPS, and overall low hitpoints screw you royally.
I love my Muninn... it's great for ganking frigs on a gate... but once you fight something bigger than a frig, you should have brought something else.
-Liang
Ed: Read the above two posts. We've all been agreeing exactly on how the Muninn is best used... I've not disagreed with bld at all related to Muninn use and effects. -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi |
Relicc
Caldari House InVisus
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Posted - 2008.09.04 05:01:00 -
[105]
You get em liang!
Even though I don't think the muninn is terrible, and I enjoy flying them quite a bit, its got some problems. __
07 Insurgency. |
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