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War is primitive.

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SOFcode Z777 Caldari Human Enhancement Tech.	Posted - 2008.09.01 13:49:00 - [31] Originally by: Myxx War has never accomplished anything but the development of technology by which to use to kill more people. I see it reversely. We had a long term of peace before the wars between the Empires broke lose. Studying the capsuleer life at those times indicates that humanity weren't happier either. We may not agree on what wars can accomplish. But than, we don't know what peace has accomplished either. SOFcode z777 CEO Human Enhancement Tech. H.E.T Lieutenant Colonel Caldari State Mordus Legion Loyalist
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.09.01 15:09:00 - [32] I'd like to repeat a quote that my father once told me as a child. It's always stuck with me : "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of all things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
Shortfused	Posted - 2008.09.01 16:28:00 - [33] Originally by: Myxx War has never accomplished anything but the development of technology by which to use to kill more people. I see it reversely. I do have to disagree, most humanitarion inventions zas allso most medical discoveries were made during times of wars. Therefor your statement is false.
Miss Uylear Caldari Uylears Dream	Posted - 2008.09.01 18:54:00 - [34] * A precorded message is sent to all in the debate * Sky Grunthor - To try and change your fundamental nature is naive... to try and rise above it through denial of its existence is ultimately impossible. Veron Dearth - It is what let us rise above the other base creatures that populated whatever planet we arose upon. Whether this was to craft a stone axe to chop down trees and make huts or to make spears to kill others that came to steal what we had built or made, it matters not. Natalcya Katla - I agree completely with Captain Seth, and, to a large extent, with the originator of this thread. Humanity should shed its differences, rise above itself and work as a single entity to realize its full potential. I forget, what year is this we exist in? What part of our past are some of the people still trapped in? How is it that there are those who seem to think we can never shed basic natures. How is it, Veron, you posess knowledge of how we survived in our basic state, yet have no clue as to where we come from originaly? Trust such gaps in your understanding I do not, for it must of been a leap of faith only to have come up with this. And also the arguement of evolution coming from the mouth of one who prays to a god. I ask again, what year is this? Let us understand one thing here. Humanity has already shown it can obliterate its basic nature, for before humanity, there was the animal kingdom. A kingdom where recognition came from the smelling of urine and the anus. Where small gestures were licks and tail wagging. Flares of scales and strange high pitched sounds were used to ward off foes. This can be seen on those unspoilt yet observed planets of many a system in our galaxy. Funny how this basic nature is not so easily carried on, is it? Verily, we may kiss, hug and consumate relations with the exchange of bodily fluids, yet this activity, well, it is not so brutal anymore, is it? If it is, then there are many names one can assign to it, but not some of those I will suggest below. However this is all evolution, is it not? This is all originally from the advancement of social values held in the animal kingdom. Has anyone known, ever, how long it has been since we left this kingdom of animals to look at our origins? Words to describe the animal kingdom; pre-historic, natural, instinctive, primeval and primordial. Oh so tasty are these words in such a discussion. Why? For none of them matter to the human race anymore, unless, of course, you are an advocate of war. These words are to be applied to you in whole, for this frame of consciousness is still lingering in the DNA memory of your make up. You are evolutions laggers, tying humanity to a past it can't forget, must not forget, of course, nevertheless you think its the only way forward as that instinctual impulse is still so strong in you. Truly hold the values of decency in you? Then I suggest euthanasia to you and all your clones. Release humanity from your urges that belong only to the animal kingdom. War, however, is the way of all things on all levels. War is intrinsic not with humans, but all species ruled by one simple little need; re-production and consumation. It is universal. It is the socially advanced method of propagating the species. Not to an end, but to a place where it may reproduce and consume. Again, what year is this? Where a man named Sky Grunthor can weild a statement that says it is impossible for basic nature to be erased, yet himself be a walking, talking, and certainly flying contradiction in regards to where he came from on the ladder of evolution. So, if you see, once those needs are no longer necessary, social evolution may once act again in a leap of wisdom. It may not yet be the time of the ubermensch, as war has broken out again, but it will, inevitably... * The sound of a station warning beacon shrills the air surrounding Miss Uylear. Attention diverted, she smiles at the camera before swithing it off *
Avel Kereka Amarr The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.09.01 19:59:00 - [35] Originally by: Verone I'd like to repeat a quote that my father once told me as a child. It's always stuck with me : "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of all things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." Sounds like the Federation, although they've gotten some colour back in their cheeks as of late.
Sky Grunthor Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.02 01:32:00 - [36] Originally by: Miss Uylear Where a man named Sky Grunthor can weild a statement that says it is impossible for basic nature to be erased, yet himself be a walking, talking, and certainly flying contradiction in regards to where he came from on the ladder of evolution. There is no man that says what you have claimed here. However that is merely a minor error in your statements. However there is a flaw in your argument that you must rectify before it can be seen as valid in any way. The flaw is that you assume that humanity has obliterated its basic nature in what it has accomplished. It is an assumption that you can not provide evidence for. I could very well claim that our very nature led us to where we are, flaws and all and it would hold as much weight. In actuality the claim that our very nature led us to where we are holds MORE weight due to a simple logical comparison. Is it more believable that a species accomplishes what it does by going against its nature en mass or rather by following its basic nature to its inevitable conclusion? Yes, you could argue that if an individual can do it then so can a species but does the likelihood of it seem plausible? Your argument of us having gotten to where we are today because at some point in history we as a species did something other than our nature is highly implausible. You storm against your very own humanity for some reason I can not fathom. As if you are ashamed of it. I am not ashamed of my humanity, nor of my nature. I live within its flaws, atrocities, greatness, commonness, kindnesses and truths every day with the understanding that this is who we are. And we can either except it and do something that works... or we can deny it and do something that will ultimately fail. Your arguments lack real and logical foundation and are based in fantasy... and as such they fail as well.
SOFcode Z777 Caldari Human Enhancement Tech.	Posted - 2008.09.02 02:41:00 - [37] Mankind. Made of flesh and bone. Weak in all cases. Flesh can be burnt, eviserated, bones can be broken, splintered, shattered. Organs can be punctured. Removed and limbs can be ripped from them. Causing agonising pain throughout the process. Clone, a defiance of death. Mankind made a race. In its own image. However denied them the rights to live as equals. Organic creatures, multiplying, going from life only to hate each other. War and duty. Military Intelligence studying Nations. Realising how warlike, destructive they were. They glorify war, destroy and exhausts love taking from the their own and never giving back. Over time. It also found that mankind wished to be nothing more. * The Lieutanent Colonel closes his notebook and resumes his military duties * SOFcode z777 CEO Human Enhancement Tech. H.E.T Lieutanent Colonel Caldari State Mordus Legion Loyalist
Miss Uylear Caldari Uylears Dream	Posted - 2008.09.02 17:30:00 - [38] * A beacon alights on your comms unit. You know the pulse pattern. It is a reply to a post you made. You sigh, then wonder what inane ramblings await you. Miss Uylear appears after you accept the message. She is in the arms of a loving man, who smiles at the camera, half his face shaded in a wan light. Miss Uylear kisses this mans cheek, then playfully pushes him aside.* Miss Uylear - War, however, is the way of all things on all levels. War is intrinsic not with humans, but all species ruled by one simple little need; re-production and consumation. It is universal. It is the socially advanced method of propagating the species. Not to an end, but to a place where it may reproduce and consume. Again, what year is this? Where a man named Sky Grunthor can weild a statement that says it is impossible for basic nature to be erased, yet itself be a walking, talking, and certainly flying contradiction Sky Grunthor - There is no man that says what you have claimed here. However that is merely a minor error in your statements. (sorry madam) Sky Grunthor - Your argument of us having gotten to where we are today because at some point in history we as a species did something other than our nature is highly implausible. You storm against your very own humanity for some reason I can not fathom. As if you are ashamed of it. Firstly, dear madam, is that there is no shame at all in any of my statements relating to humanities current nature, which just so happens to be curiousity more than warfare. I also accept the flaws that you do, living around them and tutting accordingly when something does not gel with me. I also never said that humanity made a big push by itself to delete the basic neanderthal needs. I know that those needs were simply weeded out as they no longer were the best method of propagating the particular breed of our species. Let us not lose focus on the matter here, which is that war is primitive. And yes, your basic nature has been erased. No longer do you live like an animal. The impulses that dictate your behaviour are of a social level now, not one of survival. You go to war for beliefs and ideals, not because you cannot eat or sleep well. Those needs to fight come after a severe beating in said war, when it has escalated. I never did argue against these needs, they are fundamental to all life. My arguement is that humanities social maturity has still yet to grow with our beliefs of what this maturity should be. The process is still happening as we record these little messages of self adopted wisdom. Sky Grunthor - The flaw is that you assume humanity has obliterated its basic nature in what it has accomplished. Then be so kind to give me your version of basic nature, I have given mine. Sky Grunthor - It is an assumption that you can not provide evidence for. Yet I have, by giving examples of the the nature and actions of wild beasts to those of a starfaring civilization. Sky Grunthor - I could very well claim that our nature led us to where we are, flaws and all, and it would hold as much weight. In actuality, the claim that our very nature led us to where we are holds MORE weight due to a simple logical comparison. Yes, our nature of many eons ago drove us to where we are. Yet, like an old ship, like an old gun, they are now out of date. There is a force of reasoning that lots and lots of people all crying out for no more war are weak and useless. Nay! It is these people that evolution has prospered in, bringing their social understandings to a new level; realising that war, the destruction of another way of life, is not the way forward. And funny how many wars are waged by corporations. Wars ignited by greed and property and borders. The facets of a tribalistic race - one that has not matured enough to move in the opposite direction. As for merely accepting that basic natures will forever rule our minds, is folly. * The message cuts short * I see no man like man see's me.
Sky Grunthor Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.02 18:26:00 - [39] How are social needs any different from physical needs? We are not the only animal that has an innate and unavoidable need for communion with each other. We are a social organism that exists on more than what is on the table and what is meeting our basest physical requirements. There is no real difference between the two in terms of our basic nature... just a different focus. Who are these Neanderthals you speak of? And what says these mythic creatures we supposedly come from did not have the very same basic needs and very same basic nature that we ourselves have. Does the capability of technology, conjecture, intelligence mean that our very natures have changed? I think not. The social for all of recorded history and all of conjectured history has played as large a role in our development as has our survival needs. They are inseparable for our social needs are an intrinsic part of our survival. To separate the two is a like separating my head from my body. Our basic nature encompasses more than I our you can fathom. We know parts of it but not the whole. I know a part of our intrinsic nature is competition in almost all arenas. Part of it is also the requirement for companionship in some way or form. Part of it is also the basic needs of keeping the body alive. But we are more than body and our minds dear madam are the greater of our being, not the body. Is this a complete picture of our natures... NO far from complete. But it is true in what it does state. You apparently have a partitioned and limited understanding of what makes up humanity and who we are. You relegate this piece to one thought and that piece to another. You say that here is evidence of us doing something other than what we are when it is plainly part of who we intrinsically are. And yes, you may never had said that you are ashamed of your humanity.... however this continuing habit to separate our physical needs from our psychological needs creates that implication. It is however an implication, not a statement of fact. This is why I used the phrase "as if" in my original statement, because who could know your heart and your mind based on this short philosophical conversation. Our basic nature rules our desires. Our minds rule the fulfillment of those desires. And one thought to end this communique. You yourself practice and live in a tribalistic society. One, in part, made up of corporations such as Uylears Dream.
Myxx Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:15:00 - [40] Edited by: Myxx on 02/09/2008 20:18:09 How incorrect some people are, Blinded by your own selves. edit: War will always be so long as basic nature to fear that which you don't understand exists. The fear of the drone infestation, the matari and amaarian struggles, the caldari and gallentean feuds are all caused by the same basic thing. See beyond it, and maybe yet you may understand that there are other things that exist besides death and destruction.

Miss Uylear Caldari Uylears Dream	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:37:00 - [41] Originally by: Myxx Edited by: Myxx on 02/09/2008 20:18:09 How incorrect some people are, Blinded by your own selves. edit: War will always be so long as basic nature to fear that which you don't understand exists. The fear of the drone infestation, the matari and amaarian struggles, the caldari and gallentean feuds are all caused by the same basic thing. See beyond it, and maybe yet you may understand that there are other things that exist besides death and destruction. He is right! too right! Fear compells the most frightneing of responses. Its a basic survival need too. fear is but being scared of harm on any front, be it mind body or soul....i say soul to be liberal. Maybe i should not have said that. Who cares, Myxx is right. we all need to resolve our fear, control it and perhaps one day it will vansih from those who do not need it.
Sky Grunthor Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:50:00 - [42] What drivel is this. There is no argument here, there is only statements of triviality. Please bring a brain to the next communique. ------------------------------------------------- Search: Sky Grunthor
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:54:00 - [43] Originally by: Miss Uylear Clearly, you have not met the Amarr race. Were it not for them, then your utopia would be the very thing we dwell in now. That's an interesting analysis, given most conflict comes from one individual's desires running headlong into another individual's desires. Surely a society where "individualism" and "freedom" are outmoded concepts would, in fact, bring about the utopia desired. Freedom is a get-out-of-jail-free card to remain violent. War will not be obsolete until individual freedom is obsolete. In that regard, the Empire is far and away the closest to the peace discussed here.
Myxx Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:57:00 - [44] Originally by: Sky Grunthor What drivel is this. There is no argument here, there is only statements of triviality. Please bring a brain to the next communique. There is no argument because there is only truth and insight in what I've said. I discuss not what is but a veil of cultural bias on all fronts. They are but statements of truth. ---- Originally by: Tishlin Veredici CONCORD is like the UN. Their entire job is to do nothing until its too late.
Sky Grunthor Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:08:00 - [45] Apparently when you fail to argue your point you resort to inane platitudes and call them truth. Yes I see your great and mighty epiphany now. It all makes perfect sense. *Sky Grunthor walks away to the back room to read something interesting ------------------------------------------------- Search: Sky Grunthor
cheesyhead Minmatar Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:25:00 - [46] Edited by: cheesyhead on 02/09/2008 21:26:14 Laughs loudly you go ahead and ask yah'selves those smart questions, but I think that most of us, even if they don't admit it, fight because we love to fight. .. mumbles a little I need a drink... burp
Myxx Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:35:00 - [47] Originally by: cheesyhead Edited by: cheesyhead on 02/09/2008 21:26:14 Laughs loudly you go ahead and ask yah'selves those smart questions, but I think that most of us, even if they don't admit it, fight because we love to fight. .. mumbles a little I need a drink... burp This is true, and sadly apart of the issue. ---- Originally by: Tishlin Veredici CONCORD is like the UN. Their entire job is to do nothing until its too late.
Miss Uylear Caldari Uylears Dream	Posted - 2008.09.02 22:24:00 - [48] * Where there was pre-recorded messages, there now shows a live view of Miss Uylears perfectly scuplted face. her body built for carnal pleasure is seen to be wearing a jade green ball gown. Yet its her eyes you focus on, seeing a look that pierces. You are being scrutinized, you are being judged.* This discussion was about war being primitive. War. War, war, war, war, war. The basis of this data-package seems to be losing its validity as all facets of humanity seem to be in the firing line now. War, pilots. I see no man like man see's me.
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.09.02 22:37:00 - [49] <Veron Daerth appears, and seems somewhat irritated> I apologize for my absence recently, Pilots, as an planetary appointment required me to be away from GalNet. Many of you here have advanced some idea's and some philosophies. Frankly, many of them are flawed. Having a degree (two of them) in social science and one in psychology, I can, if you wish, proceed to point them all out. This would take several communications and a lot of explanations that, also frankly, would bore you to death, possibly literally. Let me eludicate for a moment. The human animal is not native to this galaxy, we know this. The EVE Gate is there if you wish to go look at it. The SSoE study it and have amassed quite a bit of information on it and possibly a lot of the original humans that came here. The Jovians are rumored to know quite a bit of our origins and possibly more. Whatever they know, they arent sharing, unless you have some information I dont, if you do, please share it. It is reasonable that we can extrapolate that humans as a species went through a pre-human phase. Where this happened, how long ago, and what it looked like, I dont know, and unless you have a bit of hard evidence as to any of it, you dont either. But it happened, my Faith does not hamper this or interfere with it. God did not create us in this galaxy or local cluster, we also know this, he simply gave us some instructions that he didnt give the rest of you. Its where our superiority complex comes from, but if you knew me, you'd know I dont particularly ascribe to that bit of dogma either. So, proto-humans. They would be the source of all our basic instincts. You know, the stuff that keeps you alive when all hell hits the fan. Fight or flight, the instinct to survive, to protect our young, to propagate. All those. And yes, the big one, the instinct to kill. Killing is part of us, all of us. Go try to harm a mothers infant, see what she does. I suggest you take a portable cloning device, if there is such a thing. If she has a weapon (or something that can be made into a weapon) near at hand, all the better. I assure you, she will not tolerate you and your threat. Fear. Fear is a chemical reaction, that causes a lot of other reactions. It has a lot of beneficial effects on the human body. Adrenaline, pain suppression, hyper realism, extreme sensitivity to motion and potential threats. It allows us to survive when in the presence of predators, which alludes to us being a rather weak species when it come to natural combat. I would suppose that our primordial homeworld had a lot of large predators, they would look at us as prey. Fear keeps you alive. Since we think, and reason, and use logic, we can overcome fear, we can sidestep the basic instincts, so to speak, but not always. We are violent by nature, and there have been many studies, many done by not so nice or moral people that prove this. We have learned to harness this aggression, this tendency to violence, and to use it to further us as a people. We use it to focus ourselves, to drive us, to make more of ourselves than what we were to begin with. War is a tool, and we use it accordingly, as a species. War drives the economy, make new technology, and allows nations to dedicate time and effort and resources to a relative few projects that would never be accomplished in peace if for no other reason than cost and resources.There are many examples. I am sorry if I seem harsh, but I am tired of seeing all these "war is bad" comms channels. Yes, war is a terrible thing, in many respects, but it too has its goals, and its purpose. Its a tool, and a good one, too. I could go on, but wont. You probably dont care, but should you wish to, contact me privately, and I can expound on this and other things. Who knows, you might get some of that foolish naivete educated out of you. God go with you, Pilots.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.02 22:45:00 - [50] Originally by: Miss Uylear War, war, war, war, war. The basis of this data-package seems to be losing its validity as all facets of humanity seem to be in the firing line now. War, pilots. War is no more or less primitive than human nature itself. Hard to seperate the two. If you're simply implying that war is technologically primitive due to the wonders of cloning...wrong again. Resources are resources...and they are, mathematically speaking, limited. We have made "human lives" a less limited resource, and good on us for it...but that merely means death is an obsolete or primitive concept (for some), not war.

Sky Grunthor Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.02 22:55:00 - [51] Edited by: Sky Grunthor on 02/09/2008 22:55:09 Veron that was a wonderful and elucidating post. I take no issue with it. ------------------------------------------------- Search: Sky Grunthor
Cyzlak	Posted - 2008.09.02 23:22:00 - [52] hey sup guise i got a amrageddon wif mega LaZerZ iz dat gud?
Miss Uylear Caldari Uylears Dream	Posted - 2008.09.02 23:30:00 - [53] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Miss Uylear War, war, war, war, war. The basis of this data-package seems to be losing its validity as all facets of humanity seem to be in the firing line now. War, pilots. War is no more or less primitive than human nature itself. Hard to seperate the two. If you're simply implying that war is technologically primitive due to the wonders of cloning...wrong again. Resources are resources...and they are, mathematically speaking, limited. We have made "human lives" a less limited resource, and good on us for it...but that merely means death is an obsolete or primitive concept (for some), not war. There are alot of those that seem to consign the act of war to a nature that cannot be avoided no matter what. How very foolish, How very lacking in any real vision other than the one where you will thrive. I guess for every person who relishes war, there must be thousands who do not, but to you, that is a minority as they are not on the front lines with all you other warmongers. And who the hell said that our technology had anything to do with our social maturity? I never made the link. in fact, I have made no link what so ever as to how our technology makes us what we are. The pure simple reason of my case is that war is driven by a primitive need found only in the animal kingdom, where human terms of bloodlust are jollied about making it ok in todays social climate. It is like listening to children saying that they are being naughty purely because they are children. Sky, Uylears Dream is a charity. We do not take part in war like activities. We are scientists in our nature. We only fight to protect that which is most important to us. But do not think you have me here... Miss Uylear switches the camera to the left over remains of a fierce battle near luminaire. See this, this zone of war? hmm, how lovely it must look to you. Fallen ships, noble warriors left to die in slowly de-pressurising hulls. camera zoom Look, a lone frigate. Its signature is of a civilian craft. It is damaged. Look at those Hull markings. It has been rammed by kinetic charges. You wonder what it is doing here, in this little spot of hell. Lets find out. comms is patched through This is -U-D- Vessel Seeing, do you read? We are hurt, we need medical supplies We will give what aid we can. We will dock as soon as we are close. What happened to you? Attacked by a Caldari Battleship. its drones made attempts to break open our hull, but they left before they could. The battleship then opened fire on our drives. Were bound here. Losing air slowly, no propulsion. Any idea why you were attacked? We are Gallente. We have many here, thousands in our hold The civilian ship explodes, its propulsion systems more damaged than first indicated. It is later deduced by the -U-D- vessel that the drones and Battleship meant to cause this method of death to the civilians. It was a death prolonged for nothing but the saviour of it. The camera is stilled, flicked to static and again in the -U-D- vessels bridge. Miss Uylear is there, plain faced. Some time has passed since the explosion.* So what do you advocates of war say to war crimes? How do you explain the breaking of the rules that govern your little games of seek and death? Is it in your nature to commit these atrocities, are you so out of your mind that you cant even control yourselves? Do you not see the plain and simple truth that you are all sick, that your ideals are old and have no place in world that desires a new direction? I see no man like man see's me.
Sky Grunthor Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.02 23:39:00 - [54] Edited by: Sky Grunthor on 02/09/2008 23:39:16 *Sky Grunthor looks up as her message indicator beeps, walks over and reads.... .... walks back to the back room to continue reading something interesting as she wonders how Uylear continues to miss the point
Uylear	Posted - 2008.09.03 00:09:00 - [55] * All eight foot of uylear is seen to the camera. He is Miss Uylears husband, her charge and caretaker. He knows not of the debate that she was trying to win, only that it had her so worked up that it showed whilst doing her main work for -U-D-. He accesses her comms panel, bares witness to what she has been taking part in and draws a very long breathe.* My wife, bless her, is wrong. She is, and I cannot bare to tell her. She seems to think that it is only humanity she need concern herself with. So fond is she of it, that she can't bear to see itself tear away from her perceived notions of sanity. This confuses me greatly, for I know what comes. And so does she. The man known as Veron is quite right, and when Miss Ageon Harima Uylear reads this, she will be sorely dissapointed, and I will have a sore eye Let us not ask why war is primitive, but why war is the greatest thing we can possibly ever master. We have spread through space at a rate so quickly that we can barely keep up with ourselves. we have inhabited systems and yet forces such as CONCORD have not reached them yet, to govern our natures. Lets keep pushing out. What may we find. A totally xenox race so full of malignancy that it cannot be reasoned with? A race that has taken its technology to the most twisted places of sentient suffering? You cannot rule this out Miss Uylear, Ageon darling. Do you wish to nullify our fighting abilities to let such forces rampage over us? Is it your vision to let ourselves die without mercy? do you really wish that upon your fellow beings? Veron is right, Ageon. War IS a tool, it is most needed, and is most certainly worth sharpening. I am so glad I understand this basic of natures where as you do not. but then that is why you love me, for I am your mentor, your guide and your saviour. back to the lab with you, please. Keep an eye on that gate manifold sequence. Keep to what you are good at. The province of war is not for the meek. To Sky. If I can make her, Miss Uylear will be making a statement of loss to you. She will, by my pardoning, be blessed of her reasoning and you will forgive her. To Myxx. It is folk like you with your pithy dreams of utopian society that plague my wife,tearing her beliefs in half and making her less than what she truly is. I pray, abandon your dream of peace. Instead, foster your darkness and use it as Veron suggests. Otherwise you will most certainly perish under worse pain than any like us who are prepared to fight for a cause.
Vlad Cetes Caldari Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.09.03 00:43:00 - [56] Originally by: Miss Uylear pointless rambling Uylear, I would suggest you exercise some restraint in the conduct of your wife. I would recommend the installation of Sansha-tech emotional disabling implants. These would keep such rambling off public forums. If you do not exercise restraint, you yourself will be placing both of your lives in jeopardy. I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.03 04:52:00 - [57] I'm no advocate of war, Miss Uylear. I do not define its rules or relish its harsh realities. But I am a realist, and I'm very good at carrying out the tactical assignments given me by my Amarrian betters; I don't set the rules but I understand them very well and play by them with grim efficiency. The day I'm no longer needed is a happy day indeed. However, that day has not arrived, nor will it for some time I'm sure.
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.09.03 06:06:00 - [58] Pilot Uylear, you also seem to be operating under a misapprehension. Yes, the civilized nations have agreed upon a somewhat standard "code of conduct" that pertains to conflict and its prosecution. However, you should never, ever, ever assume that there are "rules" to war. War, by its very nature, is everything that we are taught not to do, or to be. We are taught that murder is wrong, that slaughter is wrong, and that destruction is wrong. These are the base foundations of war. War, and the acts perpetrated by the soldiers that fight it, is beyond any "normal" rules such as you or I would think of them. It has its own rules, its own codes, its own morals. In war, those innocents that stray into the lines of fire between opposing sides have NO RIGHTS. Those that would directly or indirectly aid your enemies have NO RIGHTS. War is in many ways, a sort of state of perfection. Of true black and white. You are either with me... or against me. And if you're not with me, you're against me. And if you're against me, I have to kill you to keep you from doing the same to me. Simple, easy, black and white. There is no good or bad, only us and them. Ask any soldier that has stood in the line, or fought any battle. There are no innocents there, only those who are with you, and everyone else. Your civilians caught in the crossfire are a sad little side effect of war, but inevitable. It happens, and you cant avoid it. Good thing there are so many of them, you can afford to lose a few. On a somewhat different note, I would also point out that you dont necessarily need to look outside the human species for an external threat to justify war. There are many sects and cults and ideals and social groupings and their concomitant adherents. Yes, let us all live in peace, and love one another, perhaps we can sit by the fire and all sing "Kum-by-a".... <Veron Daerth laughs.> And after you have done so, the first person or group of people that disagree with you on something and are willing to use force to get you to see things their way will crush your happy little society, and will destroy your dream. There is an old saying... "They builded them a desert, and called it peace." This utopia you speak of, it is a barren place, devoid of competition, of conflicting views, empty of passion and fire. You cannot have the desire for betterment, the urge to strive to be better, unless you have something to compete against, something to overcome, to achieve. And achievement comes from adversity, of destroying your opponent, of subsuming that obstacle. All of these things, from the greatest works of art, to the pinnacle of architecture, are derived from our need to overcome, to impose our will on the universe. To change things, to beat them, to make it so. And the more we have to strive, the more we have to give, the more effort it takes, the greater the achievement. So, yes. By all means, fight. Do war upon one another. Overcome your opponents, strive to be the victor, and in the end, achieve your goals. Write your names across the cosmos, and let none say that you did not give of your very best for your victories. Stand for something, make it worthwhile, and do not let those innocents that die, do not let it be in vain. May God grant you the same Mercy in Death, that you showed others in Life, Pilots.
BloodBird Gallente Tactical Freedom Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.03 08:44:00 - [59] And there you have it, what I have been waiting to read in here. The answer to all the questions that go like: "why are you fighting?" Daerth said it in an effective and yet simple matter, the cold hard fact of war. Now that it has been said, can we please have an end to these naive debates? After all, while few truly enjoy it, there are battles to fight and millions of lives to silence. Because if we don't, the lives of the ones WE care for will be silenced in the enemy's stead. Welcome to the cruel reality of the universe, Myxx. Sig source
Uylear	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:46:00 - [60] Veron. you seem to be confusing me with my wife, treating us as a single entity. don't be naive in that respect. Although together, we are radically different. Agree with you I do, yet the external threat was an extrapolation. Once again, me and Miss Uylear are different people. Understand this please, sir.

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