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vanBuskirk
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.01 17:39:00 -
[1]
Simple question - or maybe not so simple; keep reading.
My main (not this char) has the Marauders skill at 4, and armour and shield tanking skills are about equal; also tech 2 large hybrids (both types) and tech 2 cruise missiles and torps.
Right. Now, said character also has Gallente BS V (wanted to go for capitals) but Caldari BS at only IV. The training time for Caldari BS V is around a month. Given this, should I mission in a Kronos or grit my teeth, train the caldari BS skill and join all the other high-end missioners in a Golem? Or go sideways, ignore the fact that I have marauders skill, and buy a CNR?
Opinions are requested; although I have the skills, I have never flown the Kronos.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.09.01 18:11:00 -
[2]
The differences between Kronos and Megathron are minimal, with Kronos getting better turret DPS but worse drone DPS. If you ever felt even remotely comfortable missioning in a Megathron rather than a Dominix, go for Kronos... if not, go for Golem. Or, you could buy a CNR and use the Kronos for loot and salvage, but unless you're running massive amounts of missions it's just not worth it.
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Dwayne Dibly
UnderDog Industries Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.09.01 18:12:00 -
[3]
Golem but then again id still prefer a CNR |
FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.09.01 18:54:00 -
[4]
Both. I would buy a Kronos and use it. I would also train for Caldari BS V, buy a Golem and use it.
Mission running is serious business. |
Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.01 19:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: FT Diomedes Both. I would buy a Kronos and use it. I would also train for Caldari BS V, buy a Golem and use it.
Mission running is serious business.
This pretty much. Though actually since I got my Kronos I find myself using the Golem only for Sansha Blockade anymore. The insta damage is just so much funner than waiting for torps to hit. Not to mention how much faster it kills frigs and cruisers.
The only annoying thing is only having 4 mids, that makes shieldtanking a bit awkward ;) (and yes, if used in conjunction with Pally/Nightmare and Golem you just gotta shieldtank the Kronos most of the time) And of course it sucks that two bonuses go largely unused, but oh well... Still outperforms a similarly fit Mega or Hype by a huge margin (largely due to using only half the amount of faction ammo and having the three tractors). |
demonfurbie
Minmatar Covert-Nexus White Core
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Posted - 2008.09.01 20:27:00 -
[6]
dont forget the rattlesnake with both races bs up there it can be pain ful |
Boz Well
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.09.02 06:58:00 -
[7]
Kronos is meh. I'd go golem/paladin, or golem/nightmare, if you want the top two ships to fly for missions. If you can fly both of those, and work for an Amarr agent, you'll be burning it up. |
knobber Jobbler
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Posted - 2008.09.02 09:46:00 -
[8]
The Golem is worth it simply as a loot hoover, you can clean up a pocket in a minute or so. The Golem with torps and faction ammo puts out horrific damage but I think the CNR overall is a better mission ship. |
Iron Wraith
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Posted - 2008.09.02 10:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: vanBuskirk Simple question - or maybe not so simple; keep reading.
My main (not this char) has the Marauders skill at 4, and armour and shield tanking skills are about equal; also tech 2 large hybrids (both types) and tech 2 cruise missiles and torps.
Right. Now, said character also has Gallente BS V (wanted to go for capitals) but Caldari BS at only IV. The training time for Caldari BS V is around a month. Given this, should I mission in a Kronos or grit my teeth, train the caldari BS skill and join all the other high-end missioners in a Golem? Or go sideways, ignore the fact that I have marauders skill, and buy a CNR?
Opinions are requested; although I have the skills, I have never flown the Kronos.
i assume you've messed about with missiles and with turrets, so which one do you have more fun in? |
Jastra
Gallente Black Thorne Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.02 11:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: knobber Jobbler The Golem is worth it simply as a loot hoover, you can clean up a pocket in a minute or so. The Golem with torps and faction ammo puts out horrific damage but I think the CNR overall is a better mission ship.
can you expand on why ? it seems a shame that marauders arent more decisevly better than a tier 1/2 BS |
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Uziel Zero
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Posted - 2008.09.02 11:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jastra
Originally by: knobber Jobbler The Golem is worth it simply as a loot hoover, you can clean up a pocket in a minute or so. The Golem with torps and faction ammo puts out horrific damage but I think the CNR overall is a better mission ship.
can you expand on why ? it seems a shame that marauders arent more decisevly better than a tier 1/2 BS
The CNR outdamages the Golem with cruise launchers (about 16% more DPS), whereas the Golem allows for easier fitting of the equivalent of 8 torp launchers. The Golem also has a significantly better tank due to the bonus, but the CNR's tank is capable enough for most L4s. The biggest factor in the mission-capability of the two ships lies in whether you prefer torps of cruises. Personally I use my CNR over my Golem as well, since I am partial to cruise missiles.
As for the original topic: While I feel that the Golem is a superior missioning ship, the Kronos is no slouch. Don't dismiss the webifier bonus so quickly; with a webifier, you no longer have to maintain range to keep a target within your tracking envelope. With a possible -99% speed effect, tracking becomes a non-issue when your target is moving at single-digit speeds. No longer will you need to move away from your target using an afterburner to maintain tracking range. With that in mind, and the armor rep bonus from the Hyperion, I would say that the Kronos is decisively better than its T1 counterparts. |
knobber Jobbler
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:49:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jastra
Originally by: knobber Jobbler The Golem is worth it simply as a loot hoover, you can clean up a pocket in a minute or so. The Golem with torps and faction ammo puts out horrific damage but I think the CNR overall is a better mission ship.
can you expand on why ? it seems a shame that marauders arent more decisevly better than a tier 1/2 BS
The CNR vs Golem when both using Cruise missiles = The CNR does more damage period, each defender missile used against the Golem takes down 25% of its DPS and the CNR's bonus is more suited to the task of Cruise missile use. If you use the Golem with torps you have to get in closer than with Cruise missiles which means while your tank is slightly better your taking more damage and your almost required to use a target painter. That said a T1 fitted Golem using faction ammo will take down most NPC BS's in 3 salvos assuming they don't use defenders against you.
I do agree with you, I was not impressed when a freind got the Golem and we went out on a mission to see how it faired. His tank was whittled down too quickly for my liking despite very good skills and a good ship fit but the loot hoovering ability is awesome. Shame is a 750m loot hoover that takes months to learn how to fly. Put me right off learning BS V.
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Thule Cult
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Posted - 2008.09.02 15:15:00 -
[13]
dont use a golem, pretty much a waste there. Unless you have an AB to get close and use torps. But rats use defenders and that takes out alot of your dps. |
Neurotica Zeshi
Gallente Worst Case Scenario.
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Posted - 2008.09.02 15:39:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Neurotica Zeshi on 02/09/2008 15:41:05 To be honest it comes down to your personal peference what do you have more fun using guns or missiles, i can fly both and i prefer to use the kronos, rails plus sentries can put out some serious dps and i always have more fun using them compared to missiles.
It can also run a really nice tank with just tech 2 mods and the ability to tractor in wrecks from 40km and salvage while doing the mission seriously reduces the time you spend on each mission.
After all you can always buy the kronos for now while training up cal bs 5, you can always sell the kronos on if you dont like it !
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2008.09.02 16:15:00 -
[15]
lol golem not worth it LMAO
torps in golem are pretty cool but not for missioning.
mission golem rocks. a mission golem set up with 4 caldari navy cruise launchers and navy cruise missles is better than one with 4 T2 launchers and cruise missle spec 5 with T2 missles
the reason i say cruise for missions, range ..... can hit whatever u lock even up to 107km and farther. with skills they WASTE the small ships, you dont have to zoom close range of less than 25km to hit anything
yeah a bit light on overall dmg but for missions not a problem
the cruise missle golem is like the old school torp raven BEFORE the missle overhaul came into play
plus no armor tanker can compare themself to what is available for a shield tanker in that ship.
cyrstal implants + golem boost bonus + faction items = rediculous shield tank
not that i know for sure but
4 navy cruise/2 tractors/1 salvager 100mn2 AB/kikka's(spelling) booster/2 inv field 2/ 1 T2 cap relay/2 T2 sheild boost amps 3 navy BCU's/1 T2 PDU
cruise missles hit for about 1270 raw dmg with navy cruise every 8.4 seconds and with a crystal low grade set that booster rips for about 2700 hit points every 4 seconds with that setup
no armor tanker can ever touch those numbers with best possible armor rippers and implants to speed them up. best armor ripper with implants to make it boost as much as it can as fast as it can only gets approximately 1700 points every 10 seconds
because of the crystal set and the boost bonus that the golem gets, makes it the absolute best and strongest possible BS tank in game.
never had this but with the cyrstal high grade set the best booster and 2 of the best shield boost amps you are looking at being able to boost over 3500 shield every 4 seconds. some estimates put it at 4k in that ship with all lvl 5 skills. with mauraders 5 its like having 2 sets of crystal implants in.
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The Djego
Minmatar merovinger inc
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Posted - 2008.09.02 16:18:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Thule Cult dont use a golem, pretty much a waste there. Unless you have an AB to get close and use torps. But rats use defenders and that takes out alot of your dps.
Torps are nearly Defender save damage, also I would not call 60km Range bad(have a bit more in the Abaddon with Puls, but works like a charm).
I personaly like the Kronos, good range, Speed and ok Damage(about 800 DPS). If you like to run Missions with a gank fitted Mega or Navy Mega go Kronos. Damage is not that diffrent but fitting and Tank are mutch better when gank fitted(4 MFS, 2 Trackingcomps on most of the Missions, not a single one with less than 3). Also there are no NPCs were you realy suck with Kin/Thermal(unlike Lasers vs Angels/Guristas). The 90% Web is preaty nice vs Angels(i mission for Rep Fleet) and other things that come close making the Turret DPS more constant than on the Mega or Navy Mega.
For the TL;DR Kronos donŠt sucks, itŠs very solid without any real weakness, but canŠt match the high DPS of the Paladin(that sucks vs EM Resistant rats) or the Golem(that is more limited with range if you fit Torps).
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2008.09.02 16:26:00 -
[17]
Torps are nearly Defender save damage, also I would not call 60km Range bad(have a bit more in the Abaddon with Puls, but works like a charm).
confused, how do u get 60km range with torps. i got max missle skills and mine only go about 25/26km max
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demonfurbie
Minmatar Covert-Nexus White Core
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Posted - 2008.09.02 16:28:00 -
[18]
rigs and implants with jav ammo
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2008.09.02 16:32:00 -
[19]
ahh right on, ty
i use the implants that boost the missle factors, ie sig radius, velocity factor and such. i like one shotting frigs with a cruise that hits for the full dmg.
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Amandin Adouin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.09.02 16:38:00 -
[20]
Get a Vargur.
*hides*
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EveJunkie
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Posted - 2008.09.02 17:39:00 -
[21]
Kronos is fun with blasters on the missions that dont involve large distances. :) Paladin with Tachs is good for those longer range ones.
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Mia Fatalis
Caldari Radioactive Squirrel Squad
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Posted - 2008.09.02 18:24:00 -
[22]
any marauder is good (cept the vargur) though having tried both the paladin and the golem, my vote goes to the golem.
Torp dps up to 60km, massive tank, its just good.
and if you think torps in missions suck, your doing it wrong.
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Mire Stoude
Cash Money Brothers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.09.02 18:53:00 -
[23]
I've been very happy with the Kronos. With good skills, implants, and fittings you can crank out over 900 dps with excellent tracking.
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Xin ShaoLin
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Posted - 2008.09.02 19:10:00 -
[24]
Golem is really the only answer for running level 4 missions. No other ship can bring in as much ISK as a well fitted Golem. I have both a Golem and a Kronos and have tried CNR etc... Nothing compares to a Torp fitted Golem for running lvl 4 missions. I can 2 volley BS's with torps. Here is a another thing to think about when thinking of going the CNR route. I purchased a Vepas Seige Missile launcher roughly around 700 million I paid for it. With the Golem, it is like I bought 2 of them since 1 launcher is acting like 2 launchers due to the 100% damage mod. So, the more you get faction launchers, the more you save. Plus, you have all of the extra cargo room for loot and can pull from 40k away. I just don't get the argument with CNR versus Golem. It is silly. Also, I haven't been able to get the Kronos DPS anywhere near the GOlem. Trust me, i am not a Golem homer either. I WANT to fly something else just for a change, but nothing can compare so far when running Missions. I have been running Missions since the beginning of Eve, so I know a bit about them by now :) |
Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari Firestar Drive Yards
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Posted - 2008.09.02 19:20:00 -
[25]
Having done missions now both in my Golem and with a friend with his Kronos, the golem is better overall simply because of the missile advantage. The Kronos however is WAY, WAY WAY WAY, WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY better than a standard megathron, especially in terms of tank.
They're both capable, it depends on whether you think the ability to do missions a little quicker with the Golem is worth a month of training. |
Tamoko
Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.09.02 20:01:00 -
[26]
A few observations from a semi seasoned Paladin pilot.
* How many tanking modules (Reppers, hardeners, et al.) do you fit on your current mission ship? I tanked a Worlds Collide this weekend with one rep and two hardeners. That's a lot of extra room for damage mods and stuff.
* 425mm Rails are a very fine upgrade from 325mms. They aren't tachyons, but your kinetic damage is largely more compatible with the mission NPCs than my EM damage.
* I never looted a single thing in my missions, in an Abaddon. After six days in a Paladin, I had looted everything that'd fit in my cargo hold without adding any appreciable amount of time. That loot sold and reprocessed out to about 450 million ISK. That's a really big deal. * Furthermore, most of my missions end with all the wrecks in a nice little 2.5km pocket where they can be salvaged faster than I can target lock them in a destroyer. |
JenDen
Caldari The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.09.02 22:36:00 -
[27]
Edited by: JenDen on 02/09/2008 22:43:50
Originally by: Mia Fatalis and if you think torps in missions suck, your doing it wrong.
Quoted for truth. To Op: I would also agree that Kronos and Golem are both great mission ships. Golem is slightly easier to fly though, you dont bother with tracking, the ship has great tank and massive dps (never use cruise missiles, they suck). The good thing about Kronos is instant damage (feels heavenly right after switching from missiles to turrets) and that you dont have to use painter for every npc for maximum damage. Overall Golem and Kronos both will give about the same missioning speed provided you have the identical skills. So go for Kronos as you already have Galente BS5, and maybe later as you get tired of it you train for Golem or other marauder. And yes, any marauder is overall better than faction battleship because you can loot/salvage, I was happy to get rid of my old CNR, sold it for 300M. Added:
Originally by: Xin ShaoLin No other ship can bring in as much ISK as a well fitted Golem.
I was kinda thinking the same way until I saw my friend's Nightmare/Golem noticeably outperforming my faction-fitted Golem on Sansha/Drones missions. The pay-off though is when he gets Guristas/Angel mission (amarr agents offer those too) he has to swap for different ship. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.09.03 04:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: X'Alor lol golem not worth it LMAO
torps in golem are pretty cool but not for missioning.
mission golem rocks. a mission golem set up with 4 caldari navy cruise launchers and navy cruise missles is better than one with 4 T2 launchers and cruise missle spec 5 with T2 missles
the reason i say cruise for missions, range ..... can hit whatever u lock even up to 107km and farther. with skills they WASTE the small ships, you dont have to zoom close range of less than 25km to hit anything
yeah a bit light on overall dmg but for missions not a problem
the cruise missle golem is like the old school torp raven BEFORE the missle overhaul came into play
plus no armor tanker can compare themself to what is available for a shield tanker in that ship.
cyrstal implants + golem boost bonus + faction items = rediculous shield tank
not that i know for sure but
4 navy cruise/2 tractors/1 salvager 100mn2 AB/kikka's(spelling) booster/2 inv field 2/ 1 T2 cap relay/2 T2 sheild boost amps 3 navy BCU's/1 T2 PDU
cruise missles hit for about 1270 raw dmg with navy cruise every 8.4 seconds and with a crystal low grade set that booster rips for about 2700 hit points every 4 seconds with that setup
no armor tanker can ever touch those numbers with best possible armor rippers and implants to speed them up. best armor ripper with implants to make it boost as much as it can as fast as it can only gets approximately 1700 points every 10 seconds
because of the crystal set and the boost bonus that the golem gets, makes it the absolute best and strongest possible BS tank in game.
never had this but with the cyrstal high grade set the best booster and 2 of the best shield boost amps you are looking at being able to boost over 3500 shield every 4 seconds. some estimates put it at 4k in that ship with all lvl 5 skills. with mauraders 5 its like having 2 sets of crystal implants in.
what the **** do you need that much tank for
hell a single dead space SMALL shield booster will give you enough tank for just about any mission. (hell I'm just looking at the pithi b-type)
if you want cruise get a cnr
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UrsaeMajoris
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Posted - 2008.09.03 04:49:00 -
[29]
Edited by: UrsaeMajoris on 03/09/2008 04:53:35 Golem can have 100% damage type of its choosing - with the kronos you are limited to dealing only kinetic/thermal damage.
As they said, Golem with max missile range skills, T2 javelin torpedoes and both missile range rigs give you a max range of 60.3km . That's sufficient for pretty much almost any mission - sure you might get the occasional spawn that begins maybe 10km out of your reach but if you have missioned IV's long enough you'll know what and when this kind of stuff happens so you can prepare for it.
Torp-fit CNR actually brings in isk faster since it can do more DPS and you can squeeze out 68km from javelins with triple rigs and you don't need a sustainable tank anyway considering how much extra shield HP the cnr has and how quickly you will pop NPCs.
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Zo5o
Gallente Longcat is Long
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Posted - 2008.09.03 06:06:00 -
[30]
Quote: Torp-fit CNR actually brings in isk faster since it can do more DPS
I haven't flown either, but it seems to me like the ability to tractor/salvage while killing, on top of the target painter bonus (meaning more dps against smaller targets), would roughly equalize the two ships in terms of isk/hr, if not put the Golem ahead.
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