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Nerfing, Suicide Ganking, Incentives,and The Future....

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Kin Dahl	Posted - 2008.09.02 11:29:00 - [1] Well its patch day, and Ive got some time on my hands, so I decided to post my thoughts on the current state of Eve. Suiciding ganking is getting nerfed today, war decs, well possibly in the future. Ive posted before that the thing that attracted me to Eve Online was the non consensual PVP, youre responsible for your assets and you have to be careful. What a great great concept for a MMO I thought to myself, you can be war deced, you can be scammed and you can be suicide ganked. This is just in high sec, low sec and 0.0 is a whole different ballgame. It is one server and the rules apply to everyone. So as the new player comes into the game you should be ready to learn, and yes, adapt, dont afk haul, dont haul everything at once, dont afk mine. Watch local, heck even corp hop when you get wardecced. Great, I thought just great, I have the tools and the knowledge to protect myself. So why does CCp keep nerfing high sec PVP. Was Jihad Swarm the cause, is it the $$$. A great book to read about human nature is Freakanomics, its all about what motivates people and incentives. For example you sell your house for $200,000 ,a little above current prices for the same neighbourhood, same square footage. Your real estate agent is set to make say $2000 off the sale. But maybe she wants to sell it quick, and she tells you to sell for 190,000. Why would she suggest this, simple, you lose ten thousand on the sale, but she will only lose $50 to $100. See its all about incentives. Maybe CCp should start nerfing high sec dwellers, 50% tax in npc corps, heck I bet this would even work better. After 6 months if you dont want to leave an npc corp, fine we dont want your subscription anymore. Now wait, before you roll your eyes, remember its all about incentives. What motivates aperson. I suggest the CCP head Brass read Freakanomics. So, the future, well if high sec PVP become non exsistant, im talking about war decs, suicide ganking, scamming, then you do have WOW. Honestly, is that what we are here for. As for the new players, please adapt, please learn and protect yourself. Ive said this before, deep down inside I hope the subs fall, and maybe just maybe we will get that harsh dark world where you are all alone. Peace and fly safe!!
Lailake G.o.E. Industries	Posted - 2008.09.02 11:30:00 - [2] wat have u got against wow?
Kin Dahl	Posted - 2008.09.02 11:32:00 - [3] I have really nothing against WOW, imo its watered down. If you like it great.
Lailake G.o.E. Industries	Posted - 2008.09.02 11:33:00 - [4] then shut up
Myra2007 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.09.02 11:34:00 - [5] $$$ Spot on...
LiberalSyn Gallente Extreme Addiction	Posted - 2008.09.02 11:42:00 - [6] Same sh*t different day.... Always the same whining when a patch comes out.. Get over it.
Brute Offence Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.02 11:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Lailake then shut up Wow, you look really cool telling other people to shut up like that. On subject though, without any afterthought I'd say remove hi sec all together.
Gonada Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:06:00 - [8] 4 words I think of when i look at the boards nowdays. dumb, stupid, carebear, idiots. way to go, eve will soon be the space-WoW clone you wanted. once ccp is dont changing the face of this game, they will wonder why people start leaving.
Shivago Steel	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:06:00 - [9] CCP/Eve is a buisness like any other competing MMO. The Pew Pew/Piewats types are not the majority group in the game. Everyone will pew pew/ Yar to some degree, but for the most part, the largest group of the customer base are casual players. That group who pays the bills, the ones that dont burn up bandwith, the ones that most often will have a account for every family member, and most often will do more mining/industry than pew pew. CCP like any other business will need to evolve to cater to the bill payers. If that means makeing high sec more safe, then thats another option to keep and make more customers. It's simple, if a change will produce more customers than what is lost, then expect it to happen. So for all you people who keep that forum whine skill trained, go design, fund, market your own game to your liking or STFU.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Kin Dahl Suiciding ganking is getting nerfed today, war decs, well possibly in the future. Possibly goes a long way. They could possibly make all of hi-sec 0.0 and disband CONCORD... possibly.

Julietta	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Kin Dahl Ive said this before, deep down inside I hope the subs fall, and maybe just maybe we will get that harsh dark world where you are all alone. You HAVE got it, in the vast majority of systems - being all of those which are 0.4 or below. Why do you insist that the people who DON'T want it, but are happy with a non-PvP area, should be forced out of the game entirely? Why are you so implacably opposed to a game which caters for both groups?
Banana Torres Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:15:00 - [12] Well, it is still going to be possible to suicide gank people in high sec. It is just the downside of doing so has been increased. Now you will need to bring more firepower and will get a bigger security status hit. From reading the dev blog I got the impression that the devs thought that suicide ganking was too easy. Obviously if you are a suicide ganker this is a big change, but to me it is hardly a change at all. Saying that Eve is now WoW in space is just childish hyperbole.
Scrutt5 Snuff inc	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:18:00 - [13] My understanding is that high sec ganking will still be an option, its just gonna take you longer to work back that sec.
Shivago Steel	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:19:00 - [14] Originally by: Banana Torres Well, it is still going to be possible to suicide gank people in high sec. It is just the downside of doing so has been increased. Now you will need to bring more firepower and will get a bigger security status hit. Lets not forget the potental change to insurance for concord actions, That was listed in a Dev blog.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:20:00 - [15] Originally by: Julietta Originally by: Kin Dahl Ive said this before, deep down inside I hope the subs fall, and maybe just maybe we will get that harsh dark world where you are all alone. You HAVE got it, in the vast majority of systems - being all of those which are 0.4 or below. Why do you insist that the people who DON'T want it, but are happy with a non-PvP area, should be forced out of the game entirely? Why are you so implacably opposed to a game which caters for both groups? That's like asking a football team to accommodate players who only like non-contact sport. It can't be done. You can't play football when half of the players want to have you arrested if you tackle them. Turning your question around: Why are you so implacably opposed to EvE being a full PvP game? Why did you even start playing a game that is advertised as being such? Or if you don't want PvP in hi-sec, how about really removing PvP; from now on, players in hi-sec can only sell items for their listed base value. After all, why should you be allowed to nerf my playstyle by profiteering at my expense? Or did you actually mean that your playstyle should take precedence over mine, by allowing you the freedoms you do like, but denying me the freedoms you don't like...?
Dionisius Gallente Vagabundos	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:21:00 - [16] Ahh how wonderfull it is the smell of a good Whine... old and matured. Gentleman do you need cheese to go with it?
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:22:00 - [17] Originally by: Scrutt5 My understanding is that high sec ganking will still be an option, its just gonna take you longer to work back that sec. And when insurance is removed, it's going to make rich old players in freighters and faction ravens effectively immune. Only new players in weak ships that can be ganked by disposable trial alts will be suicide ganked.
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:22:00 - [18] Most people who are called 'carebears' actually like the idea of that hint of danger too. The only problem is balancing the danger against the activities - why should someone be able to take away from me in 5 minutes what it took me 5 months to achieve? (For example)
Julietta	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Malcanis That's like asking a football team to accommodate players who only like non-contact sport. Which is incredibly easy. You have a game on one field where rough tackling's allowed, and a game on another field where it isn't. We have 0.0 and lowsec space where anything goes, and highsec space where it doesn't. Why the problem?
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Dionisius Ahh how wonderfull it is the smell of a good Whine... old and matured. Gentleman do you need cheese to go with it? One day you're going to make your mommy very proud by thinking up your own cliche one-liner. one day.

Tatsujin Koufu	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:23:00 - [21] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Julietta Originally by: Kin Dahl Ive said this before, deep down inside I hope the subs fall, and maybe just maybe we will get that harsh dark world where you are all alone. You HAVE got it, in the vast majority of systems - being all of those which are 0.4 or below. Why do you insist that the people who DON'T want it, but are happy with a non-PvP area, should be forced out of the game entirely? Why are you so implacably opposed to a game which caters for both groups? That's like asking a football team to accommodate players who only like non-contact sport. It can't be done. You can't play football when half of the players want to have you arrested if you tackle them. Turning your question around: Why are you so implacably opposed to EvE being a full PvP game? Why did you even start playing a game that is advertised as being such? Or if you don't want PvP in hi-sec, how about really removing PvP; from now on, players in hi-sec can only sell items for their listed base value. After all, why should you be allowed to nerf my playstyle by profiteering at my expense? Or did you actually mean that your playstyle should take precedence over mine, by allowing you the freedoms you do like, but denying me the freedoms you don't like...? as far as I can see it, you have both already You can pvp in low and null sec and I can pve in high sec...whats the problem?
Tatsujin Koufu	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:24:00 - [22] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Scrutt5 My understanding is that high sec ganking will still be an option, its just gonna take you longer to work back that sec. And when insurance is removed, it's going to make rich old players in freighters and faction ravens effectively immune. Only new players in weak ships that can be ganked by disposable trial alts will be suicide ganked. Yes and by doing that you will get yourself banned, nice huh ;)
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:25:00 - [23] Originally by: Julietta Originally by: Malcanis That's like asking a football team to accommodate players who only like non-contact sport. Which is incredibly easy. You have a game on one field where rough tackling's allowed, and a game on another field where it isn't. We have 0.0 and lowsec space where anything goes, and highsec space where it doesn't. Why the problem? sigh. For the thousandth time: because they're different zones on the same pitch with the same game being played. Is that truly so hard to understand? Are you really unaware of the fact that what happens in hi-sec has significant effects on lo-sec and 0.0?
Leviathan9 Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:28:00 - [24] Quote: Ive said this before, deep down inside I hope the subs fall, and maybe just maybe we will get that harsh dark world where you are all alone. Peace and fly safe! Ohh maaah gawwwdd!! EVE IS DYING!!
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:28:00 - [25] Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Scrutt5 My understanding is that high sec ganking will still be an option, its just gonna take you longer to work back that sec. And when insurance is removed, it's going to make rich old players in freighters and faction ravens effectively immune. Only new players in weak ships that can be ganked by disposable trial alts will be suicide ganked. Yes and by doing that you will get yourself banned, nice huh ;) They can ban as many trial accounts as they like. That's the whole point - if they do, you just create another one. Recycling alts on an account is forbidden, but there are no such limitations on recycling whole accounts. And you can skill up a half-decent suicide destroyer pilot (arty thrashers are best, I'm told) in a few days. That gives you 3 alts per trial who can do 3 or 4 ganks each. And there's no limit to the number of trial accounts you can manage, as long as you don't actually log in to more than one at once on any one PC.
Tatsujin Koufu	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:30:00 - [26] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Julietta Originally by: Malcanis That's like asking a football team to accommodate players who only like non-contact sport. Which is incredibly easy. You have a game on one field where rough tackling's allowed, and a game on another field where it isn't. We have 0.0 and lowsec space where anything goes, and highsec space where it doesn't. Why the problem? sigh. For the thousandth time: because they're different zones on the same pitch with the same game being played. Is that truly so hard to understand? Are you really unaware of the fact that what happens in hi-sec has significant effects on lo-sec and 0.0? Yes of course we are aware of it, and as stated, your working from the opinion that the 0.0 players mean everything. I suspect that subscription numbers mean otherwise to CCP Sorry about that
Dionisius Gallente Vagabundos	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:31:00 - [27] Edited by: Dionisius on 02/09/2008 12:31:49 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Dionisius Ahh how wonderfull it is the smell of a good Whine... old and matured. Gentleman do you need cheese to go with it? One day you're going to make your mommy very proud by thinking up your own cliche one-liner. one day. First i'm enjoying the sweet sweet colletion of different whines you all produce and i'll enjoy it to the fullest. /evil laugh Edit: Oh and yes, " OH NOES CCP WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!!111!! EVE IS DYING!!! DYING I TELL YOU!!!!
Tatsujin Koufu	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:31:00 - [28] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Scrutt5 My understanding is that high sec ganking will still be an option, its just gonna take you longer to work back that sec. And when insurance is removed, it's going to make rich old players in freighters and faction ravens effectively immune. Only new players in weak ships that can be ganked by disposable trial alts will be suicide ganked. Yes and by doing that you will get yourself banned, nice huh ;) They can ban as many trial accounts as they like. That's the whole point - if they do, you just create another one. Recycling alts on an account is forbidden, but there are no such limitations on recycling whole accounts. And you can skill up a half-decent suicide destroyer pilot (arty thrashers are best, I'm told) in a few days. That gives you 3 alts per trial who can do 3 or 4 ganks each. And there's no limit to the number of trial accounts you can manage, as long as you don't actually log in to more than one at once on any one PC. Nice, so you have actually revealed the real reason for your post, the desire to shoot the helpless probably because targets that can "shock horror" defend themselves are just "too difficult" huh
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu You can pvp in low and null sec and I can pve in high sec...whats the problem? (a) Anyone using the ISK they make in high-sec to fund their PvP (which is a LOT of people) is the problem. (b) Anyone selling modules obtained through PvE and competing with people trying to do business in low-sec/0.0 while being completely immune is the problem. (c) Anyone buying modules and ships by ISK obtained through PvE and competing with low-sec/0.0 people for the same items while being completely immune printing ISK in high-sec is the problem. The problem is, basically, that EvE isn't two separate games. If you want a typical 'safe zone' which other MMOs have, then let's remove everything except L1/L2 (debatable) missions from high-sec, every ore except Veldspar (meaning, ice, etc, too), remove high-sec POSes, and cut the number of research&production slots in half. Then you can have a nice starter zone with no PvP at all. Fair enough?
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:33:00 - [30] The only thing disturbing about the nerf is they never seem to go the other way. I never see them say something like, "Ooops! We made it too easy for the carebears so we nerfed the gateguns and CONCORD a bit". Balance is a bit one directional when it comes to suicide ganking. But there's no real champions for it. Anyone that supports it is labeled a gankbear or demonized somehow. It's my opinion that all eve professions, no matter how nefarious, should be supported equally. When you start discounting one side of the debate in favor for the side who just wants to be lazy and AFK autopilot everywhere... Well, you tell me? Balance is subjective I guess. /shrug The other problem I have with the suicide ganking nerf is that the boom in it's popularity obviously corresponded with the sharp decline in ship prices. That has alot to do with the mineral market being screwed up. So it makes me wonder if CCP has no intention at looking at the screwy mineral market and only intends to bandaid the symptoms of it. meh... Whatever. Of course there will be alot of cheering for the suicide gank nerf. It means people can set their AP and go AFK without worrying. Why play the game if it's boring, right?



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